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JC1
13th August 2006, 19:57
MY EXPERIENCES AS A WORKING CLASS ANARCHIST

Terry Morgan

Introduction

The anarchist movement is bollocks.

I first got involved in the anarchist movement in the early 1980s. This work is about the kind of things I got up to. It's not about what a laugh it was, it's about how shit it was and why. It's about my experiences in Sheffield and Leeds over more than ten years involvement in the anarchist movement. My conclusions are based on a wide range of my own experiences, and discussions I’ve had with other people.

What follows describes my early excitement and commitment to a movement that I genuinely believed was made up of people who were serious about changing the world. I made a lot of mistakes but I am proud of my efforts, which were always made with complete conviction even if they were generally misguided. My experiences helped me to develop my understanding of society and what is and, more importantly, what isn't revolutionary politics.

Background

I was brought up on a council estate In Oldham. I had an intense class-consciousness and plenty of class hatred. My early beliefs were directly based on my experiences, not what I read in books. I could see what work did to my parents. My dad was an engineer fitter. My mum did several shop assistant jobs. From an early age I could calculate just how many unpleasant hours my parents put in at work to pay for any of the commodities they bought. They are both fucked up physically before they are 65 years old because they are working class.

I’ve hated the rich and powerful since my earliest memories. I hated the local shopkeeper because he was getting rich by jacking up his prices, in spite of the level of deprivation that was on the estate. I used to throw stones at the local Tory councillors big house in the hope of randomly hitting someone or something. I hated the police because I was on the receiving end of instant justice a couple of times. I also knew that they were uninterested in anti-social crime on our estate. My anger was class anger, not just personal - I believed in the strength of working-class solidarity. At school, although I got on with most teachers, I was considered a rebel, a class-room communist. I was advised by one teacher to go to live in Russia. When I was at sixth-form college I was even asked if I wanted to join the Young Communist League. I gave it a lot of thought before declining.

I remember getting into loads of arguments during the Falklands War. I was the only person I knew who was openly against it. I risked my neck quite often as my mates turned into a bunch of flag waving chauvinists. Some even considered joining up. I remember arguing that the only war worth fighting was the class war. I remember hearing a black bloke on the radio say, "no bit of dirt is worth my blood". That small comment had a profound influence on my life.

When I went to university in Sheffield I expected to find it populated by young men and women in donkey jackets discussing the coming revolution. I couldn't have been more wrong. I'd never met anyone who was middle class before (except teachers). I had no concept of what they were like. I was in for a shock. There were a few students who actually did believe that they were planning the coming revolution - University is the training ground where the young middle class play at rebellion and hone their management skills. Those who had become temporary Trotskyists were learning to be vacuous and offensive (it is interesting to note the proportion of people in management jobs who were Trotskyists when they were younger).

Eventually, I met a group of what seemed like angry young people, who were ‘doing the business'. They had what is now known as "attitude". Some were students - they were nearly all middle-class 'drop outs’. They were on the periphery of the Sheffield Anarchist Group

Early years - blind activism

For me, it was easy to get into the anarchist movement. Partly, it was because I was impressed by the way in which the anarchists were able to articulate things that I had thought about, but never heard spoken before. My mates on the council estate had hated bosses and coppers, and they were class conscious to a point, but they would never have talked about abstract ideas like capitalism or alienation. This was something I hadn't come across before - a whole group of people who could articulate ideas about politics and culture that were similar to mine. It was also romantic, exciting and fun. I dropped out of University in my final year. I became a full time 'political activist'.

I was a young man open to new ideas - and full of a revolutionary spirit - I was desperate to discuss revolutionary politics because I wanted to do something to change the world - I wanted to know how it could be done. At the time, anarchism, and mixing with other anarchists, gave me a direction. To a certain extent the anarchist movement inspired self-confidence, mutual aid and trust within the clique. No one made decisions that I had to follow, at least not formally (though there was a strong moral code - this included things like: you weren’t allowed to be openly into porn; you couldn't say the word "****" out loud; you had to be vegan; at that time you weren't supposed to be into football, etc. If you went against any of these, you could be an outcast).

I got stuck into everything that was going on. I got involved in the more extreme kind of animal rights activity because I thought I was "doing the business". I became an "anti-sexist man" after being introduced to radical feminist ideas. I took up anti-fascist activity. I was an activist. Whatever came my way, I took it up with enthusiasm. I was certainly active. I was not a revolutionary.

I developed the look of a young anarchist. I got completely submerged in the anarchist social scene. I had hardly any friends who weren't anarchists. Whenever I visited my parents I argued with them about anarchist politics (before that I hadn't ever had a real conversation with my dad). I went on marches, abused the police, fought with fascists and Trotskyists, trashed public meetings, harassed Labour Party hacks, chased Tory MPs, and went to an endless round of meetings. These were exciting times in the anarchist clique in Sheffield. There was a wide variety of confrontational activity.

I got so into hunt sabotage that I went at least once a week during the hunting season. I would get up at 6 am and spend the day in the back of a van, hangover or no hangover, run miles across ploughed fields. Over time I learnt to control the hounds. It was great fun and it kept me very fit. Getting into scuffles with hunt supporters occasionally added to the thrill.

When the British National Party established themselves a regular sales pitch on Saturday afternoons, Sheffield's anarchists swung into action. We look to turning up and trying to look inconspicuous (just how inconspicuous a group of anarchists in second hand combat gear with multi-coloured hair could hope to be is a good question). Over time, we made other contacts with various serious anti-fascists and set up the Sheffield Anti-Fascist Network. We organised a sem-military campaign, including reconnaissance, monitoring, and propaganda.

Eventually the confrontation came. There was a brawl on a Saturday afternoon involving twenty odd people. It was exciting stuff. I found myself face to face with a burly skinhead (Baines) and exchanged a few punches before he was jumped on by a couple of my comrades. A couple of fascists got badly hurt, one was hospitalised, and a couple of each side got arrested. We'd outnumbered them and none of us had a scratch on us. This fight has since gained some historical significance. Tim Hepple described the fight in more detail in his fascist memoirs At War With Society, published by Searchlight. More recently, conspiracy theorists at Green Anarchist have hinted that Hepple escaped a prison sentence because of his links with the establishment. That is not true. Hepple was picked up by the police after the fight. He was not involved in it though. He’d been watching from a safe distance. When the case came to court, it was obvious that there was no case against him.

Over the next few weeks a few scuffles broke out, and the fascists increased in number as word got out that there was a free fight with a bunch of scruffy lefties every Saturday. Support was bussed in by the British National Party from all over Yorkshire and Lincolnshire. After a few weeks most of the fascists got bored. There were a few face offs, mainly posturing, but most of the fascists were working-class kids who’s main interest in fighting with us was because we were identifiable as a group of lefties and students, nearly all from outside Sheffield. They could get a kick out of it for a while and impress their mates but it didn’t amuse them for long.

We also got involved in a campaign to stop the deportation of a bloke from Sri Lanka who was seeking sanctuary in a church in Hulme, Manchester. Viraj Mendis happened to be a member of the Revolutionary Communist Group (RCG). The way the RCG were using the bloke was pitiful, but it did cut both ways (one popular chant at the time was "When Viraj Mendis is finally free, He will leave the RCG"). Without the RCG he would have been just another deported refugee.

The RCG organised what was called a "vigil". Basically, people would lock themselves in the church overnight with Mendis. We were supposed to be prepared to defend it in the event of a police raid. Some of us went over to Manchester one night a week and stayed over. Sometimes we’d go over on the Friday and take part in the weekly march from the city centre to Hulme. This occasionally got a bit more interesting when the odd reactionary turned up to taunt us. Anyway, we went over every week and stayed up all night chatting, playing cards and football in the church.

Eventually, the Greater Manchester Police (under the leadership God's own cop, James Anderton - "all coppers are baptists") tired of us and broke into the church to deport Mendis on Home Secretary Douglas Hurd's orders.

The week after the deportation, a "mass" rally was organised. Tony Benn came, on the invitation of the RCG. He made a speech about how the best way to fight state racism was to elect a Labour Government. Some of us gave him some verbal stick. The new Labour Government have recently announced new measures to make it quicker and easier to deport asylum seekers.

Another regular event was trashing political meetings. During the run up to the 1987 General Election, a Tory Party public meeting was blitzed in Sheffield. The candidate ended up on his arse, closely followed by the chair he had been sat on. A couple of councillors got spray foam in their faces and complete chaos ensued for a few minutes. Whistles and air horns were blasting out and the smell of stink bombs filled the hall. We wound them up so much we practically had to fight our way out. It was a fantastic buzz. We all went to a pub and spent the rest of the night playing pool, and laughing, after making sure we were all safe.

Several years In succession, we completely embarrassed the Labour Party mafia in Sheffield at the May Day march. One year, during the anti-Poll Tax campaign we sparked off a well planned chant of "are you paying?" whenever one of the official speakers tried to speak. The whole crowd took it up. We managed to drive Martin Flannery MP off the platform with our chants. The organisers, to prove their democratic nature, asked for a show of hands of those who wanted to hear Flannery speak. I literally counted about five hands up in the air out of about 2,000 people. Flannery accused us of being Nazis and then legged it. We then held an open forum and invited people out of the crowd to come and use a loud hailer to say whatever they wanted - and some did.

After that year we tried to make Sheffield a national focus for anarchists on May Day (reclaiming May Day we called it) - One year, over a hundred anarchists came form all over the North of England. The "officials" were driven to holding their Trade Unionist "rally" in front of a handful of the faithful inside the City Hall instead of the traditional rally on the steps outside. We had our own PA set up and had organised speakers from all over Sheffield speaking about all kinds of issues, from library closures to racist attacks.

We didn't restrict our activity to the Labour and Tory parties. Both Militant and the SWP had reason to regret holding public meetings on subjects that we were interested in. We would turn up en masse and be generally disruptive and have a laugh. In particular, whenever the SWP did their regular "What is Anarchism?" public meetings, it often came close to a brawl. .

I was at the big anti-Poll Tax riot in Trafalgar Square (and many smaller anti-Poll Tax events that led to confrontation with the police). On that day, I saw things I'll never forget. I witnessed things that made it the most exciting day of my life I did my best to soak up the atmosphere. One of the most incredible sights I’ll ever see was hundreds of coppers, truncheons in hand, running away. Many thousands of people were up for it. It was brilliant.

All kinds of anarchist organisations were set up in Sheffield at the time. Most were set up in a spirit of optimism, they would then sort of function briefly, and then die a lingering death. Experimental social organisation was tried. Various anarchist centres were set up, food co-ops, squatting, self-defence classes etc. On the surface, a feeling of solidarity and mutual aid developed, in complete isolation from the rest of the world.

When there wasn't much happening, I learnt to print and published anarchist books. As part of Pirate Press (and later Irate Press, on my own) I typeset, designed, printed and collated around twenty titles in all. At first I did it to raise funds for "the movement". Later I did it to subsidise my dole. I worked all kinds of scams to make life on the dole more comfortable. I also worked on leaflets to help people avoid being harassed into taking a job by the dole office.

I helped to put together a massive library of anarchist literature, and books about politics in general, containing several thousand books. I also gathered and organised a massive archive (probably one of the biggest in the country) of all kinds of memorabilia, papers, leaflets, badges etc.

I took out subscriptions to all the anarchist papers, from Black Flag, Class War, and Direct Action, to Green Anarchist, including Merseyside Anarchist and Anti-Clockwise. I developed an interest in long dead revolutionaries and anarchist history that could see me through the long nights when there just wasn't a meeting to go to.

I went to anarchist bookfairs in London every year and ran a stall selling my own pamphlets. There were always arguments late on in the day when people were tired, drunk and feeling less comradely. Sometimes fights would break out. It's not surprising really considering some of the shit that was on sale, and the attitude of some of the idiots that went.

One summer I spent ten days in Amsterdam helping someone to do some research on the history of Anarchism in Sheffield. We stayed in a squat in the city centre. We spent all day every day in the International Institute of Social History, poring over copies of old anarchist and socialist newspapers from the 1880s and 1890s. We compiled several books full of notes ready to complete the half-written book that my we were working on. It was really interesting and we had a laugh. We found things like tickets to anarchist fund raising events over 100 years old, original leaflets, personal letters, reports of meetings etc, that had been saved in excellent condition.

One of our most exciting finds was a 100 year-old scrap of paper that we'd read about in contemporary writings of the time. It was covered in the illegible scribble of an anarchist, David Nicoll. At the time, Nicoll had been the editor of a well respected (within political circles) national anarchist paper Commonweal. Nicoll went mad while in prison after the Walsall bomb plot. He spent his later years scribbling on pieces of paper and selling them to his old comrades as if they were propaganda. It was incredible to be able to hold the actual piece of paper. Although it really was a terrible thing to see, we both had a fit of giggles in the reading room of the Institute. Serious old men with Marx/Bakunin style beards sat around reading first editions of Das Kapital.

Later, I went on a pilgrimage to Barcelona. I went to pay my respects at Durruti's grave, and did the tour of the sites of the old city where the working class had fought off the fascist insurrection, only to be suppressed on Stalin's orders. I was taken in to one of the CNT's union offices and shook hands with a couple of old Spanish blokes and bought a couple of key-rings with Durruti's face on them.

What’s it all about?

Those are just some examples of the kind of things I got up to. In all that time, I rarely stood back and really asked why I was doing it all. When these thoughts came into my head, I was satisfied wlth the argument that we were carrying a new world in our hearts. One "comrade" used to say that we were "ambassadors of anarchism". We were keeping anarchism alive for the future. Our work was propaganda by deed. Our books were inflammatory. I was satisfying my conscience by my activism. At least I wasn't just lying down and taking what society was throwing at me

Over time I did start to question things like:

why did the movement never get any bigger?
why was there never any progress?
why are anarchists generally unreliable?
Why did most anarchists have no enthusiasm for anything that required understanding, planning and patience?
The answers only really started to become clear to me after I left the anarchist movement. Not surprisingly at the time that I know more about politics than I ever have before.

Anarchism is supposed to be a "revolutionary theory". To be an anarchist is to reject government – fair enough. Anarchists generally do put energy into both fighting against the restrictions imposed by authority and trying to develop alternatives.

However, anarchism is ambiguous. Anarchist theory developed out of the struggle against the encroachment of the capitalist organisation of everyday life. But it also developed out of a need to break away from feudal restrictions on economic and social activity. In other words, historically, anarchism has a bourgeois, or middle class side to it. Having said that, at least some strands of anarchism are firmly tied to working-class struggle as an alternative to Bolshevism. There is a rich and proud history of working-class activists who have described themselves as anarchists - people who have been able to participate in working-class struggle as part of that class, and who have gained the respect of their fellow workers. In Britain, they have always been the very tiny minority of politically active workers - and the minority of anarchists in my experience.

Since the early development of anarchism as a revolutionary theory there have also been the wankers and bull-shitters who have served to destroy any credibility that anarchism has within the working class. Today's anarchist movement owes more to the bull-shitters than the heroes. A conspiracy theorist may spot that this state of affairs suits those with a vested interest in the status quo. The average modern anarchist is generally more concerned with the way they look and the food they eat than any other kind of "struggle".

I found that the anarchist movement attracts a lot of "discontented" people. It's like a lamp attracting moths. Often people who are able to be charismatic within cliques find a niche. Many of them have had the benefit of a middle-class education. On the other hand, it also attracts a lot of social misfits and inadequates. Maybe these two kinds of people go together, feed off each other. Some anarchists I've met have serious mental health problems (over and above those that make them want to call themselves anarchists in the first place). More generally, anarchists are people for whom political activity is a substitute for a real social life.

The movement is characterised by internal disagreement. The amount of "clear blue water" between, say, the Green Anarchists and the Solidarity Federation makes it ridiculous to talk about a single movement. The wide range of ideas that come under the anarchist banner makes it easy for anybody who has the slightest gripe about society to describe themselves as an anarchist and fit in with the rest of the anarchists. The overarching political liberalism that this encourages ("we should respect each other’s opinion, even if we don’t agree with their interpretation of what anarchism is") makes it impossible for those who believe in a more political version of anarchism to detach themselves from the clowns. The movement has no coherence and no direction. It’s not merely a joke to suggest that anarchists differ on the fundamental meaning of "anarchy". In spite of that, people within the movement constantly take the piss out of the Trotskyist left for its factions.

In my decade or so of anarchist activism, I saw time and time again, that people claiming involvement in the movement were incapable of understanding the politics that they mouthed. They didn't even try for the most part. Incidentally, although one of their favourite pastimes is slagging off Trotskyists, for the most part anarchists know absolutely nothing about Trotsky. Trotskyists are just as pathetic as anarchists, if not worse, but for a political activist, it would be useful to know something about Trotsky's ideas before commenting on them (few of which have survived intact in today’s Trotskyist swamp).

I came across people who claimed to be part of a social movement who had no intention of ever trying to seriously communicate the ideas that they supposedly believed in. I couldn't begin to count the number of arguments I had about producing propaganda that is more likely to be read than thrown away. Too many anarchists were content to keep producing lazy, "punk rock", petty, "offensive" stuff. Even those few who have realised that presentation issues count are still incapable of producing propaganda that anyone outside the movement would bother to read because of the language they use.

In many cases getting out of bed enough effort to provide anarchists with a fulfilling revolutionary life. At best they were demoralising for themselves and anyone else who thought that the anarchist movement could be a serious option. At worst, they actually shape the movement, leaving it both the joke of the left, and the bogeyman of the right.

I went to anarchist meetings every week where people were literally more worried about missing their favourite soap opera (and not for any other reason than they thought it was kitsch - by definition an anti-working class attitude) than whether we could organise support for striking workers. Of the things that did get done, most were directionless because nobody ever stopped to think about what we might want to achieve or what the next steps should be. We never asked ourselves why we were doing anything. Most things were done in a very half-hearted way

That was in Sheffield in the 1980s. At that time we had the longest running strike in British history going on in our own backyard. The strikers at Keetons were running a continuous 24 hours a day, seven days a week, picket line. Some of us did provide active and meaningful support for the strikers, and gained enormous personal respect from the strikers and others involved in that struggle. I’m still proud of the way I stood up and got involved with the Keetons strike, which I will go into more detail about below.

The Start of My Disillusion

One of the members of the Blackberry Anarchists, the group that was going at the time, put in endless time and energy supporting all kinds of worthwhile struggles. In fact, she is one of the few people I knew at the time that I still have respect for. She was genuinely into working-class solidarity and mutual aid, without thought for personal gain or kudos. For that she became well known throughout Sheffield among "organised workers" (as an illustration, I could mention a comment from a couple of blokes from a steel works trade union, in a pub after a Poll Tax meeting. She'd never met these two before, but they knew her by name).

This activist contacted the Keetons strikers with an offer of practical help. She gained their trust, and the outcome was that the anarchist group would cover their picket line every Sunday afternoon. The strikers could then relax with their families for one afternoon a week. It made a difference for them. They were made up. Every Sunday we arrived and took over their caravan. They went home for a few hours. They got a telly in especially for us and always filIed up the water and gas tanks so that we could have a cup of tea.

One Sunday there was a knock on the caravan door. A group of strikers from the P&O strike, which was going on at the same time, had come to visit the Keetons Strikers. They were in Sheffield as part of a speaking tour and decided to drop in as a show of solidarity. They even brought a bottle of whisky with them. They sat with us all afternoon. They were surprised, and interested, to find that there was a group of people prepared to do what we were doing without trying to make some kind of political capital out of it. They wanted to know about our group and our politics. They even wanted to come to one of our meetings but we talked them out of it because we would have been embarrassed for them to see what went on. They invited us to go down to stay with them, to see what was happening on their picket line.

At this time, the anarchist group had about 30 regular attendees. After the first three or four weeks, only three or four of us did the four-hour Sunday afternoon stint at Keetons. Most of the group found it too boring. Most of the anarchists thought it more worthwhile to go out delaying the deaths of foxes than getting involved with a bit of real political activity. Admittedly, it wasn't much fun, especially in Winter. There was a very poor bus service out to Darnall, where the picket was. In spite of that, three of us kept it up for over a year and later combined it with mid-week street collections. It wasn't much, but it was of real practical importance to the Keetons strikers. Not only that, it also helped their morale. It was probably the most important thing that anarchists in Sheffield have ever done.

One measure of how much the strikers appreciated it was that they would invite us, as their guests, to fundraising events. One particular night they won a bottle of wine in a raffle and gave it to us. The faces on the SWP members at the next table were a picture when that happened.

When we finally had to stop doing the picket, my comrade was really let down. I know it took a lot out of her, and I think she was going through the same thought processes as I was by then,

At the time, my response was to try to work out some way of laying some kind of obligation on the group. If people were to enjoy the social benefits of the weekly meetings, they should expect to take part in some activity. Only handful of people were ever serious. I wanted to be able to say to people: "if you’re not going to do something, don’t come to meetings". At the weekly meetings there would be long agendas, and loads of activity suggested, but the same five people would be the only ones putting their hands up when it came to the question of who would do the business. What was even more depressing was that most of the business we were discussing was as incoherent as the babbling of the cannabis damaged brains of some of the anarchist hangers on.

Positive actions rarely led anywhere because hardly anyone had any idea of a coherent long term strategy. We were very proud of ourselves - we were anarchists, but generally, we didn't even know what anarchism was. Those that were clear-headed were lost in a sea of ignorance.

Popular, but not revolutionary, activities on the other hand had plenty of takers. Take the example of "animal rights". For a tiny clique of self-congratulating people, hunt sabotage is exciting, and somehow glamorous. I know that because I was that pathetic at one stage (there is one thing about it, it certainly makes it easier to cop off). I could argue my case as well as any animal rights activist at the time. I now know just how shallow that is.

Class issues were irrelevant to almost everyone I ever met who was involved in animal rights activity. There are even animal rights organisations, on the periphery of the anarchist movement that are dedicated to attacking the idea of class struggle. I know of anarchists who are quite prepared to go out on hunt sabotages with members of the BNP. I once saw a group of hunt saboteurs spend an afternoon confronting a couple of blokes ferreting, catching rabbits to eat, while the fox-hunting upper-class twits went trotting off into the distance.

Another example: Anarcho-punk bands were numerous. The amount of creative energy and sheer hard work involved in song writing, practicing and organising gigs was massive. It also took up a lot of time (even if the results were usually terrible) but there was never any lack of people doing it.

It certainly wasn't that the anarchists were too busy to turn up on marches or put up posters, or anything else for that matter. Very few had jobs at the time (some did have kids though, which was a source of friction within the groups I was involved in. Some people actually believed that babies and toddlers should be taken to meetings - I have a couple of kids myself now, but there is no way I would want to subject them to an anarchist meeting). They just chose to carry on in their unconstructive way because it was easy, broke up the boredom, and it was fun for a while. I would have had no quarrel with that, if they just hadn't bothered to turn up at meetings.

Most anarchists adopted a certain style, a way of dressing etc. that was at best uninviting. Their anarchist "message", apart from being patronising and bullshit, was buried deep under a pose that was calculated to put people off (either consciously or unconsciously).

The politics of the anarchist movement

The politics, when they could be identified, included a dose of liberalism. They didn't get involved in liberal causes as some kind of entrist tactic like Militant, or as a recruitment exercise like the Socialist Worker Party, they went along because they thought, for example: "racism is terrible - and something should be done about it". I honestly don’t think they thought about it politically. They saw something that was obviously wrong and launched into a liberal campaign against it.

The two things all liberal campaigns have in common are:

their lack of class analysis; and
their domination by middle-class activists.
To introduce ideas of class would contradict the essential structure of the politics of liberal campaigns, ie that the middle class assume their natural position and take the lead. That way they ensure that it never gets out of control. For example, it would have destroyed the Anti-Apartheid Movement if criticism based on the class politics of the ANC had been allowed. The animal rights movement would collapse if working-class activists started arguing for class politics.

I remember the campaign against the Gulf War. I turned up at a demonstration in Sheffield with a banner that read "no war but the class war". I was harangued by middle class people telling me that it was an "anti-war" demonstration (it didn’t take me long to convince them that they ought to allow me to express myself in peace!).

I can understand some people wanting to get involved with that kind of politics. In a way it can be very rewarding – in a self-satisfying way. What I don't understand is why those people also considered themselves to be revolutionaries.

I should add that I don’t think that everything that opposes racism or sexism is part of a middle-class con-trick. Being against racism and sexism are an indispensable part of working-class politics, simply because racism and sexism adversely affect working class people You can't have a united working class without opposing middle-class attempts to divide us. However, that's not what middle-class anti-racism and anti-sexism are about. Middle-class anti-sexism is about trying to convince ("respectable") working class women that their interests lie with middle-class women rather than their own class. Just as an aside, I know anti-sexist men’s groups who get together to "discuss their feelings", challenge their own masculinity, and get into massaging each other – without first discussing class politics. Go figure that out! Seriously though, I don’t understand how discussing anything on a personal level, without first tackling class can help anybody.

Working class political activity is different to middle-class political activity

For example, I remember a time In Sheffield when the city council was about to allow open cast mining on the edge of the city. When the mine was exhausted, they were going to build a small "business man's airport" on the site. They were going to use a bit of greenery between Sheffield and Rotherham that bordered on a massive working class area. The local people turned out to several massive public meetings to lambast local Labour politicians. It was really heart-rending as working-class people related stories of what life was already like, I never mind what it would be like with millions of tons of dust from the mine, and the arrival of aeroplanes flying over the local school. To our credit, a few members of the anarchist group did our best to show solidarity and support to those who were trying to stop the work happening. As usual, however, we were outsiders and they were suspicious of us.

There is a world of difference between this and, for example, what was going on at ports a couple of years ago, where veal calves were being exported, and the demonstrations that went on around that. It is worth noting that a handful of middle-class dickheads had more success stopping veal calves being exported than thousands of working-class people had in stopping the disruption of their lives caused by British Coal and Sheffield Council.

The middle class "activists" tend to get involved with activity that doesn't directly affect them. Veal calves are not exactly going to let them down by bringing them into contact with harsh reality. Middle class lives are so boring that they desperately search for something to give them a kick. Some go to Monte Carlo, some go to live in Hackney, some get jobs where they can be do-gooders, some get involved in political activity. The difference between that and working-class political activity is that the working class has no choice. Working-class politics is a direct response to attacks on our living and working conditions. Working-class people can’t go home and forget about it over a glass of wine. Working-class people, for example, don't make a big deal about squatting, they just do it when necessary. Middle-class squatters do it when it is not necessary and then they stand up and shout about it because they think is it is a cool thing to do. They can always go back to their parents when they get evicted.

In the anarchist group, for those who were interested, we held a few discussion meetings. Unfortunately, we never got as far as discussing what anarchism was, or what a revolution would be. We had heated arguments about animal liberation or male oppression of women that showed that many of the people in the movement, although able to rant and rave about their own interests, had no particular reason to be at an anarchist meeting at all. The discussions revolved around vague ideas and equally vague people willing to argue about them.

The result of a movement made up of these people is a movement whose activity is narrow and aimless, relying on stunts and "attitude" to stop itself from completely grinding to a halt. There is no political direction at all, partly because the leadership has no comprehension of working class life, and no way of coming into real contact with working class people. In fact working class culture and language is often denigrated in the smoky pub backrooms where anarchist meetings are usually held. The only relevance the anarchist movement has to class struggle is the occasional mention of the working class in its own articles and slogans. That contradiction, where the movement uses the traditional language of the political left, and yet has no contact with the working class causes confusion. For example, I was talking to a bloke in a pub a couple of years ago. He found it funny that I was "an anarchist who had to go home to put the kids to bed". It was as if I should have been too busy digging tunnels under Manchester Airport, or chucking buckets of water over politicians, to have domestic responsibilities. He couldn’t get to grips with the fact that I was an ordinary working bloke with a family.

There was a minority of people in the movement who were serious. Too serious sometimes. They considered their own actions and publications to be more important than they really were. These good comrades passed their time drifting between bursts of activity and periods of debate.

A common feature was the setting up of a caucus of those with a 'class analysis' of society. This caucus would have separate, sometimes secret, invite only meetings. Over time, more of the other anarchists would start coming to the meetings without necessarily changing their views. Instead they learnt the new language. Because the circle of anarchists was so small, with no possible hope of ever increasing, at the end of the day, we all needed each other. Most of us couldn’t communicate with anyone outside the movement in any real and meaningful way.

I counted myself as being among the serious, class struggle, anarchists. So what did we do that was so different? In one particular case, the Sheffield Anarchist Communist Group, we held meetings where we would discuss the name of the group (what would the historical significance be if we were anarchist-communists, or communist-anarchists?), membership restrictions, and the aims and objectives of the group for six months. These meetings were for a select few only. In our meetings, we discussed how we could spread class conscious anarchist propaganda. We discussed how we could attract anarchists of the right calibre to our group (we already had a list of the usual suspects) instead of the wasters and the liberals. It took us six months to sort out the bureaucracy (who would be the group secretary?) and a set of agreed aims. Once we had settled on the wording, there didn’t seem much else we could do really so we dissolved the group, having managed only to recruit a few wasters and liberals.

I later realised that in this particular case, we had been part of the Anarchist Communist Federation's (ACF) master plan. The ACF had a dream of building up cells of anarchists in every city, who would eventually swing into line behind the banner of the ACF. In each city where they had activists, they tried to organise a suitably titled group and tried to recruit those anarchists that they thought would be the most useful.

The PoII Tax - The anarchist's Dunkirk

Towards the end of the 1980s, the Thatcher Government made its biggest mistake - the Poll Tax. For political organisations across the so-called left (excluding the Communist Party of Great Britain who missed the boat when they neutralised themselves at around this time), this was what they had been waiting for all their lives

In Sheffield, as in most places, the anti-Poll Tax campaign became a battleground between the Trotskyist organisations. Each one of them shot themselves in the foot before it was all over. We didn't have to, we were too lazy to load the gun.

The Poll Tax, and what it would mean for millions of people was brought to our attention in the pages of Black Flag. At that time Black Flag was a respected anarchist paper, with a record of investigative journalism that was taken seriously beyond the anarchist movement. Black Flag was behind the movement that eventually made the Economic League disappear. The anarchist group in Sheffield subscribed to Black Flag, and we had a weekly reading from it. A couple of years before the Poll Tax was introduced Black Flag had informed its readers of what was coming. We were therefore able to start laying foundations for an anti-Poll Tax organisation well in advance of anyone else, anyone else that is except a small radical Christian group that we came into contact with, led by a crazy but likeable octogenarian American vicar.

By the time the left decided it was time to get involved, Sheffield already had an active anti-Poll Tax group. As soon as they got involved, Militant and the SWP immediately started using bureaucratic methods to gain control of the organisation. We ourselves had not made any attempt to gain control. For one thing, it would have been the end of the group if the local press was able to link the anti-Poll Tax group to "anarchists". We were quite notorious in Sheffield at the time and we didn’t have a good relationship with the local paper, the Sheffield Star - a real right wing rag.

We also believed, according to our rhetoric, that people are capable of acting without the leadership of hierarchical political organisations. This, while true, was a cop out. It made life easier, but without a better understanding of the need to defend that position, and the class politics that underlie it, we couldn't stop the left wing Parties walking over us.

Thirdly we were content, naively, to work within a fairly broad popular front.

For a long time some of us had a lot of respect within the anti-Poll Tax movement. This was down to using sensible arguments and putting in a lot of the donkey work, like printing and distributing leaflets. As a result, none of the Trotskyist factions in Sheffield had much early success in seizing the leadership - at least not in the city wide group. In some local groups they had more success. In particular, Militant had some success on some of the big working-class estates. The SWP took control of a couple of groups in student and more affluent areas. In other local groups some of the anarchists were doing a good job (others were equally becoming very embarrassing). In my local group we had a constant battle with SWP members. I occasionally used non-democratic methods to win arguments.

In a few areas anarchists were elected as delegates to the Sheffield wide group. Unlike the Trotskyists we always acted as delegates. I remember long meetings where we forced our group to agree a mandate. The SWP were confused. If they had been in control, no mandate would have existed other than their party line, but as I was going to be the delegate, they were in favour of one in our group. Weird electoral pacts evolved which meant that I was a delegate to most national conferences along with either a member of Militant, or the SWP. I was the Sheffield delegate to both the Militant and the non-Militant early attempts to create a national organisation. I saw the way Tommy Sheridan was eased into the leading role within the national anti-Poll Tax organisation like a hermit crab into a new shell.

While we were turning up at meetings, having our say defending the line, and talking sense, as well as putting in the hours doing the work, just about all the non-Trotskyists would vote with us on any decision. It reached the stage where the left groups would rather not put any suggestion forward than have us swing the group's opinion away from them. They were running scared.

Meanwhile, on the national scene, Militant were taking no chances. They stitched things up quickly and efficiently. The anarchist movement was incapable of taking them on. This wasn’t just because of numbers, we were naive to start with. We allowed Militant to take absolute control of the national federation of anti-Poll Tax organisations. They were a well-oiled machine. They controlled the membership, the terminology, the tactics and the purse strings. They decided who would be allowed to speak at meetings and they ruled all criticism of their Stalinist tactics out of order. They siphoned funds away from the anti-Poll Tax movement into their organisation. The token anarchist who made it on to the Executive Committee of the national Federation was completely ineffectual (I still have a lot of respect for him, he worked very hard for little reward). Finally they resorted to threats and the long arm of the law to cleanse the federation of non-Militant thought. We couldn’t stop them, in spite of once coming very close to giving Steve Nally, Militant’s second in command in the Poll Tax campaign, a kicking following his "if you know ‘em, shop ‘em" public statement.

While the situation on the ground was very different, Militant made sure that they were the public face of the movement. They could get away with practically anything, from stealing funds to public denunciations of activists. The only reason I survived within the movement as long as I did was because I was able to command respect through my reputation of being prepared to use whatever means necessary, and having the respect of the activists who weren't in left-wing Parties. From this distance in time I am relieved that the anti-Poll Tax movement never really looked like going further. We would have had no chance.

When it first became obvious that Militant were stitching everything up, I organised a weekend conference for anarchists involved in the anti-Poll Tax campaign. I thought that we would at least be able to make sure that we all knew what was going on. We could then form some kind of damage limitation strategy. We might even have been able to pool resources and build up resistance.

Nine people turned up! Of those, four were from Sheffield, two were from Subversion (Manchester) and two were from the Anarchist Workers Group (Huddersfteld). One of those who turned up, a bloke from Manchester Direct Action Movement, was only capable of incoherent melodramatic rambling like some kind of bad caricature of a Trotskyist. We decided to write a joint open letter from the meeting to the anarchist movement, calling for unity and resolve. We told this bloke to write down something along the following lines: that we believed that the campaign against the Poll Tax was in danger of being stifled by Militant, but if we stayed with it, and held our ground we would be able to build on the respect we had gained through our involvement, etc. He read his words back to us: "Comrades, the tide of red fascism is stamping its jackboot on the revolutionary proletariat...". To this day I don't know where he got that from. I knew we were sunk.

As a national movement we were dead in the water. In Sheffield, we surrendered. At the time we were able to outmaneuver and out argue the Trotskyists nearly all the time. Usually by just asking the right question at the right time. The situation in Sheffield was becoming an embarrassment to Militant, and it should be remembered that Sheffield was something of a flagship to the left – Socialist Republic and all that. Then, at the crucial moment, just about all the anarchists got bored and stopped going to the meetings. The most important political event in most people's living memory, after the Miner’s Strike, and where were the anarchists? Those that were doing anything at all were organising a pathetic Squatters Support Group, for their own little clique (who were all quickly evicted without a struggle). I was left to argue virtually single handedly at Poll Tax meetings. I didn’t stand a chance. In spite of my resolve to take lefties on physically when necessary (as it was occasionally). We were then dead on the water in Sheffield too. That just about wiped me out as far as anarchism in Sheffield was concerned.

Class Struggle

For a long time I had argued against anarchists joining any of the national anarchist organisations (Class War, Direct Action Movement, Anarchist Communist Federation). This wasn’t from any "anti-organisation" standpoint (one particular infantile disorder that I didn’t ever suffer from). My argument, at that time, was that while each of the organisations had strengths (and they all had a lot of weaknesses), it was politically bad to join an organisation just because it was the best thing around. Other people argued that the national organisations were better than nothing. Some people argued that if we joined we could argue our politics from the inside. Mostly I think people joined because of the social set up.

The NAN and the CSAN

As an alternative, I was heavily involved in the revival of the Northern Anarchist Network (NAN) in the mid-1980s, and took a leading role in the formation of the Class Struggle Anarchist Network (CSAN).

The NAN was an open forum for anarchists of any persuasion. It was formed because there were one or two activists in some of the bigger Northern towns and cities who were interested in getting together regularly. We kept minutes of the meetings and produced a regular bulletin, etc.

We spent a lot of time discussing anything from hunt sabotage to prisoner support.

People often came along without a clear idea of why they were there. People could come along, having had no involvement in any political activity at all, and drag out a discussion all day about, for example, whether blokes should wear skirts (true!).

Some of the more serious of us tried to set up a new organisation of anarchists who considered that class was the most important factor in society. The Class Struggle Anarchist Network (CSAN) was born. We were trying to create a loose federation that would act as a forum, welcoming input from any serious anarchist. It would be a means of various organisations and individuals coming together to organise support for local activity, without the obligation to agree on the finer points of politics. At the time I thought that it would be practical to build links through an umbrella organisation, instead of the national organisations continuing their own separate trajectories.

It was a dismal failure. With one or two exceptions, the 'class conscious' anarchists just didn't want to know. If they were in an organisation already, they considered all other organisations inferior. Not just inferior but not even worth talking to, to find out what they were doing on a national level. Why should they when they can read each other’s papers and dismiss them because they don’t agree with their political line on, say revolutionary trade unions. There were also various hidden agendas. For example, the ACF are straightforward party-builders, while Subversion wanted to be involved because they are desperate to talk to just about anybody. During the CSAN's anti-election campaign, I once saw a member of Subversion try to seriously discuss economic policy with the Monster Raving Loony candidate in Huddersfield ("so what is your economic policy then, and what does it mean for the working class" Mike "Lenin" – Subversion member). Unfortunately for them, they are also obsessed with abusing and insulting anyone who doesn't share their perfect political line. A habit they share with the 'offIcial' communist movement and one reason why they have just six members.

On the other hand, when the CSAN was up and running, what do you know? the same old faces got involved. Even those people who argued against setting it up on the grounds that it was too narrow a definition of anarchism, and that it would cause the NAN to collapse. If the coolest thing was to be into 'class struggle', well, lets all be into 'class struggle'. Don't get me wrong, I was delighted that class struggle ideas were in the ascendancy. What concerned me was the ability of some of those involved to switch ideological positions without:

realising that they had done; and
giving it a second thought.
I learnt an important lesson from this experience. I realised that many anarchists are desperate to belong, to be part of a group, and to hang a label on that group. For some, that is their only reason for going along in the first place. After all, what is the point in labelling yourself with a word that means nothing, except that it makes you part of a private little club. They are also quick to denounce anybody who doesn't belong to the same group. When I later jacked it in, this lesson was reinforced by those people who suddenly started slagging me off behind my back because I was no longer a true believer.

Class War

Some time later than this, I went to the Class War International Conference. In spite of logistical

difficulties, and time related problems, this was quite a success. I saw working-class men and women discussing politics and addressing large meetings. I was impressed. In particular, I was impressed by some of the older members of Class War, those who were working class and seemed determined to put some effort into changing things. There was a spirit of comradeliness and everyone had a good time (especially the Norwegians, who were obsessed with telling everyone that they hated whales and Greenpeace. At the Karaoke night they led us in a Norwegian version of the Internationale). I started to think about joining Class War.

There were some seriously bad points about the conference. The main one was that the last day was sabotaged by a group of middle-class feminists. According to the agenda, on the last day we were set to discuss taking forward the ideas developed all week, about class; community; culture; gender; different forms of struggle etc. We were going to start to build an international movement. We actually spent the day arguing about why the conference had only set aside half a day (out of five days) to specifically discuss gender issues. This debate lasted all day, mainly because the group of women who demanded it heckled anyone who said anything they disagreed with. This was practically the only time this happened during the whole week. By some curious logic, the women who were concerned that women needed support when they take the first steps to address public meetings, were dismissive of any men who were also nervous about stepping up to speak.

The difficulties of organising an international conference, with people coming from as far away as Japan and Australia, drawing up an agenda, organising translations, copying papers, arranging accommodation and entertainment were forgotten. These women insisted on spending the whole of the last day of the conference discussing the one issue that they considered important. Not even actually discussing gender issues, but arguing about why the conference hadn't allocated more time to discussion of gender issues. Fuck what anyone else wanted. A conference that they hadn't been involved in organising, titled "Class War International Conference", hadn't spent enough time discussing gender issues. On the other hand, gender issues had been raised in every workshop, in every other debate all week. And so the International Conference ended in chaos with no discussion of future international links at all.

Another problem was the failure of anything to start on time. This is symptomatic of the anarchist movement in general, as I hope I've already shown. Anyway, each days sessions were due to start at 11:00 am. By noon, every day, those of us who had bothered to arrive on time had been sitting waiting an hour for lazy bastards to get themselves off their backsides and turn up at the conference. This happened every day, in spite of constant appeals for people to get to the conference on time. God help us if anarchists are ever really running the trains. Every single session started late and most had to be stopped before reaching any useful conclusion. If the afternoon session dedicated to gender issues had started on time maybe it would have been more satisfying to the sisterhood (I doubt it).

I came home a day early from the conference. I missed the big social event of the conference because the Steel City Anarchist Group (as it was then) had agreed to go on a mass trespass in the Peak District, organised by the Ramblers Association. This was to mark the anniversary of the mass trespass of Kinder Scout. Guess what - Nobody else from the Sheffield group turned up! It was raining. You couldn't argue that they didn't have suitable footwear, everyone wore combat boots at the time.

I was back down to earth with a bump. There were two forces working on me at the time. One was a feeling of admiration for some of the people who were at the conference, the other was a complete lack of faith in the people in the Sheffield group.

The few people who had recently got involved in the group for the first time jacked it in quite soon. One reason for this was the attitude of the members of the Direct Action Movement (DAM) who came to about one in three meetings. It became routine for them to turn up odd weeks, rubbish everything we had been working on, manipulate the group into inactivity by arguing against doing anything that didn’t ft in with their political position, and then not turn up again for weeks. It is true that what we were doing was pretty poor, but at the time, we were a fairly new group. We had new members who were just finding their feet and were enthusiastic. If the DAM members had turned up regularly and put positive activity on the agenda, it might have been different.

The DAM themselves had serious problems. One example of the apathetic attitude that permeated even that most serious of anarchist organisations occurred when the DAM decided that they would picket the nationwide tour of some Russian orchestra or other. The idea was to publicise the continuation of state violence in post-Soviet glasnost Russia. They roped us in to support them in Sheffield. We agreed to help them give out leaflets and hold their banner. On the day of the concert the bloke who was supposed to be bringing the leaflets turned up with them after everyone in the middle-class audience had already gone into the theatre. We’d been left standing like idiots with an unfathomable banner and no supporting information

This was not an isolated event. They were generally not reliable. And this was one of the organisations that considered itself the only standard bearer of the proud tradition of true revolutionary anarchism. They now call themselves the Solidarity Federation.

My last fling - Leeds Class War

In the early 1990s, Leeds had what was apparently a thriving Class War group. Between six and a dozen people were turning up to every meeting. When I moved to Leeds, I naturally joined the group there. I discovered that the group had evolved an over-adequate bureaucracy for what it was - a group of three or four activists. The advantage of that was that the secretary and treasurer jobs (for those doing the jobs) were a good substitute for any meaningful political activity. The group was in decline and that was felt in the depressed atmosphere at every meeting, and the gradually decreasing circle of political work that was being done

The group's activity was fairly limited anyway. One of our main activities, until we were put off by the lack of interest and enthusiasm and the difficulties of street-selling anything political, was to sell the national paper, Class War. In Leeds, we also took on quite a lot of the production tasks of the paper over time. I introduced a regular column that would review TV programmes alongside the book and film reviews. My first review was of Brookside. I wrote about the way that middle-class TV writers represent working-class people (ie badly, because they hate and despise us), using the example of Jimmy Corkhill. The next one I did was of The Bill, it was about how it was being used as a propaganda tool where the police had a 100% clear up rate, where all guilty people eventually see reason and confess. I also introduced a War Diary column, which was used to illustrate that there was constant ongoing class conflict, with or without our involvement (or any other so called revolutionary organisations). I wanted to write about things that would be familiar to the readership we were supposed to be trying to attract.

We were occasionally contacted by people who were interested in finding out more about us and maybe in getting involved. We generally wrote back offering to meet the person and discuss our politics. We tried to find out if they were really interested, and to see if we thought they were right for Class War. These people had to be put off. On one of these occasions, I volunteered to go to Huddersfield with Dave, another member of Leeds Class War.

The bloke we met looked like a right crusty. Anyway, we went to a pub with him and he was a decent bloke. He didn’t seem to have any mad ideas about us, and he seemed keen to do some stuff in Huddersfield. Huddersfield is one of the nearest towns to us, but at the time, there were no Class War activists there. Unfortunately, Dave had a few too many and got carried away. A couple of drinks brought his middle-class accent back and he started waving his arms around in sweeping motions while loudly explaining why Marx was so misunderstood. The bloke from Huddersfield never got back in touch. Dave is now on the editorial committee of "Capital and Class", a theoretical journal of Marxist economics, which sits on a small number of middle-class coffee tables.

Other than the national paper we struggled to find anything to do. We did start to produce our own free news-sheet, the Yorkshire Evening Pest. This publication went to four issues before the group couldn’t be bothered doing any more. My reason for working on the Pest was to produce something that could put forward everyday news stories, with a class-conscious slant. In the long term, I think that this is a key way to confront the barrage of middle-class propaganda that we face every day. In the short term, I hoped that we would at least be putting something into people’s hands that said: "this is what Leeds Class War think".

When we stopped producing it my disillusion was complete. I was finally convinced that the whole of the anarchist movement was rubbish. I left Leeds Class War. As I left, I wrote to them explaining that I thought that producing the local paper was the most positive thing we could be doing given our lack of numbers. It wasn't perfect, but we could at least work on it. I said that if the group was going to stop producing it without coming up with any other ideas then I just wasn’t interested any more. The effort required to fill four A4 pages with short articles was not beyond us. Printing it cheaply was not a problem. What was a problem was getting the group members to give it out. The usual problem. It didn't necessarily require anyone going out of their way but the group found it too much effort. Producing the Pest was our only public activity, the only time when we came anywhere near contact with reality.

I parted company with Leeds Class War after arguing that to reduce the group’s activity to fly-posting and the o

Red Heretic
13th August 2006, 22:06
Wasn't this taken from www.openlyclassist.org?

I remember reading it back when I was an anarchist. It had a lot of influence on me back then. I don't really agree with it now, however. It is basically attacking anarchism on the basis of economism.

bcbm
13th August 2006, 23:50
Unfortunately I'm heading out so I could only read about 3/4 of it, but I think it is certainly a good reflection on much of the anarchist movement today, sadly.

Guest1
13th August 2006, 23:54
It got cropped, you should post the rest of it, and I took out the quote tag because it fucked up the posts after you.

Wanted Man
14th August 2006, 00:03
Well written. I hope that the cut part will be posted soon.

Comrade-Z
14th August 2006, 02:43
Yeah, I've noticed a lot of the same things that this article brings up.


In the anarchist group, for those who were interested, we held a few discussion meetings. Unfortunately, we never got as far as discussing what anarchism was, or what a revolution would be.

Something that makes me feel very uncomfortable and out of place in the anarchist milieu around where I live is that they seem to have a strong aversion to discussing any theory whatsoever. I can't figure it out. It's like it makes them uncomfortable, like they think it is something that "must not be discussed" lest it create contention within the group. The intellectual atmosphere is actually rather stifling. I've noticed that a large part of the milieu is made up of lumpenproletariat types who have neither historical and theoretical knowledge, nor serious class-struggle goals and the determination to pursue those. Instead, there's a lot of "scene-ism" and lifestylism. After a while, you can almost feel yourself being sucked into that social vortex. Weird neo-puritanism starts to rear its ugly head. I don't think this has so much to do with anarchism as an ideology, but with the pitiful state of lumpenprole and middle-class membership in these groups, with proletarian influence being sorely missed. And, of course, every revolutionary organization has its problems, especially in a period like this where it is difficult to summon up a sense of progress, long-range vision, or historical mission. Disputes start erupting about petty day-to-day concerns, like "who left this moldy bread on the coffee table" etc. Then again, enforcing a long-range vision in a top-down fashion is no way to go either. I'm not sure what the answer is. I think we just need more of a sense of direction to emerge within society in general, something that will, by itself, give rise to greater class consciousness and movement.

hoopla
14th August 2006, 02:59
Damn those lumpenproletarians :rolleyes:

:unsure:

Imo, if people are going to be whining about the number of w/c, they ought to be doing so because of something like Cleaver's appeal to righting inequalitites such that they are not repeeated post-rev. In this case, is it not a bit of a empty signification: the whining refers to nothing :unsure: (lol).

I'm somewhere between m/c and lumpen. Shrug.

YKTMX
14th August 2006, 03:24
Anarchist theory developed out of the struggle against the encroachment of the capitalist organisation of everyday life. But it also developed out of a need to break away from feudal restrictions on economic and social activity. In other words, historically, anarchism has a bourgeois, or middle class side to it.

Interesting observation.

I have my own ideas about the "middle classness" of the anarchist movement. It seems to me that if your primary "enemy" is not capitalism but the "the state" - a supra-historical political form that seems to "pop up" every now and again to foil emancipatory projects - then it's obvious your class formation will be "mixed". You will attract many workers because of some of the class war rhetoric and the genral working class antipathy to the agents of the bourgeois state, but you'll also attract many middle class people who've inherited the strong "anti-authoritarian" streak in middle class political culture. It's impossible, I feel, to have your main enemy as the "state" and still maintain a serious class struggle outlook. Because surely anyone can be "anti-state" regardless of their class position?

I also find the pre-occupations about gender somewhat ironic given the blatant, vitriolic misogyny of one of their main men, Proudon.

I feel sorry for the comrade when he surveyed his ranks and saw only middle class posers and the "mentally ill", but I do struggle to feel any great sympathy with him when he's so sectarian. He admits to going to SWP meetings about anarchism to start fights? For what purpose? So we can learn that the historical goal of the anarchist movement is to beat up socialists because they are Leninists?

Wanted Man
14th August 2006, 03:36
Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2006, 12:25 AM
I feel sorry for the comrade when he surveyed his ranks and saw only middle class posers and the "mentally ill", but I do struggle to feel any great sympathy with him when he's so sectarian. He admits to going to SWP meetings about anarchism to start fights? For what purpose? So we can learn that the historical goal of the anarchist movement is to beat up socialists because they are Leninists?
Which was just another one of his activities as an anarchist, and I do not think that he endorses them today. He actually points out that as bad as the SWP may be in his eyes, the anarchist movement that he was in may have been worse, and was therefore hypocritical in its actions against the SWP.

JC1
14th August 2006, 04:21
I don't think this has so much to do with anarchism as an ideology, but with the pitiful state of lumpenprole and middle-class membership in these groups, with proletarian influence being sorely missed.

But why is it that anarchist groups cant attract workers ? Becuase the interests of workers and anarchism are historicaly contridictory.

YKTMX
14th August 2006, 04:38
Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2006, 01:22 AM

I don't think this has so much to do with anarchism as an ideology, but with the pitiful state of lumpenprole and middle-class membership in these groups, with proletarian influence being sorely missed.

But why is it that anarchist groups cant attract workers ? Becuase the interests of workers and anarchism are historicaly contridictory.
Exactly.

It simply won't suffice for the anarchist movement to blame "bad press" for their problems. It's not as if "Leninist" Marxism is without its problems in terms of historical or contemporary attack from the bourgeois media and intellegentsia. Yet, and there is no way this can be denied, when workers break with capitalism, in most countries in the world, not only the West, they move towards revolutionary socialism and Marxism to far larger degrees than they do anarchism. Furthermore, Marxists can "retain" influence over the masses even in times of defeat and general retreat (thinking India, Indonesia, France etc), whereas the anarchists tend to just die on their arse in those circumstances. I mean, to take their best examples, what, or where, are the anarchists in Spain or Ukraine now? To be honest, this may be explained by the organised stupidity that they call anarchist "federations". In such undisciplined ramshackle groups, complete disintergration is always a possibility.

Is there a serious analysis out there in the anarcho milieu as to why this is, apart from the conspiracy theories about the media and the "Bolshies"? It'd be interesting to hear if it exists.

SPK
14th August 2006, 06:47
Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2006, 11:58 AM
I parted company with Leeds Class War after arguing that to reduce the group’s activity to fly-posting and the o....
I found the full article at Portland Indymedia. Here's the section that was cut off:



I parted company with Leeds Class War after arguing that to reduce the group's activity to fly-posting and the occasional leafletting would:

be the next stage in what was clearly a continuing decline;
be a negative step to take by any political group that was supposed to be into relating to the working class.
The group's unofficial, but hardly disguised public-school educated leadership wrote back, via the group secretary, to say that the group was going through a period of apathy that would pass, and that we should just kind of "tick over" in the meantime.

As I predicted, Leeds Class War collapsed completely a few months later. Before they did they did get round to putting up some posters. I was glad to have left before having any part in putting up such pointless rubbish.

Shortly after I packed it in. one of Leeds Class War was accused in print of being an Ml5 agent (not that he could have put up a fIat pack if he was paid to). By coincidence this bloke, although he is a social inadequate, was probably the most active anarchist I've ever come across. At the time I thought that if he was an Ml5 agent, we could do with more of them. In reality, he was caught in the crossfire of a pathetic squabble between Searchlight (the anti-fascist journal that goes out of its way to discredit anarchists) and Larry O'Hara an "investigative journalist".

London Class War's response was to set up a Kangaroo Court. He was summoned to London to respond to the accusation. Just how the crew of cowboys that sat in judgement considered that they would be a match for an MI5 agent I don't know. I still don't know why it even mattered. As far as Class War was concerned, if we were putting out revolutionary propaganda, that we were all agreed on, would it matter that we were being effectively subsidised by the state?

In contrast, a few months later, when one member of Leeds Class War was accused of being a scab, the response from Leeds Class War (and Class War nationally) was that they didn't want to know. They considered it a personal attack on the individual concerned, rather than a serious indictment of their class conflict credentials.

Communication breakdown

As often happens when people leave movements, once I had stepped outside the "anarchist movement" I was able to see just how pathetic it all really is. It also didn't take long before I was hearing on the grapevine that my ex-comrades were discussing my own lack of credibility (I got the same reaction when I distanced myself from the animal rights movement. That time, I heard that some people were spreading the hilarious rumour that I'd been "seen in McDonalds").

And so, I drew together my thoughts about what was wrong with the present anarchist movement. For a start, I immediately concluded that some anarchists (the majority of the movement) simply don't want to break out of their cosy rebellion and that those that do are inevitably thwarted by those that don't.

A few years ago, one of the most common statements being made in practically every anarchist meeting was that there was no such thing as "community" in a capitalist society. I remember

arguing about this point with the person who was the national secretary of the ACF at the time (she lasted less than six months before getting bored with it). What makes me laugh now is that she, and practically every other active anarchist is so isolated from their surroundings that they have virtually no contact with anyone beyond their own clique. They could only argue that there was no such thing as community because they were completely cut off from it. They couldn't see it because they had no links at all with the people they lived amongst. Most of them are middle class, living in working class areas. It is probably true to say that there is no such thing as community among the middle class, where social events are based on consuming culture as a packaged commodity.

Most anarchists don't want to put in the necessary effort to communicate their politics to anyone who isn't already interested and experienced in their own way of discussion. That doesn't compare favourably to anarchists in the past who would work all week and go out to speak in public most nights, sometimes walking ten miles or more to address meetings. People who went to gaol for their beliefs - when gaol meant picking oakum in dark damp cells. Stunts, leafletting and fly-posting are an easy way out, an easy way to convince yourself that you are doing something when doing something real is so much harder. Chucking buckets of water over politicians is completely ineffectual, except that it helps EMI to shift a few more units. It even serves to reinforce the popular image (that is not far wrong) that anarchists are just modern day jesters, whose job it is to make fun of the ruling elite - but we all know that really they are just a bit 'learning disabled'.

Most anarchist propaganda is produced without enough thought. It's easy to write page after page of cliched anarchist propaganda, which is why groups like the ACF produce so much of it. Nearly all anarchist propaganda is aimed inward, if not to a strictly defined anarchist clique, then within a milieu of rebellious youth.

Some does claim to be aimed at the outside world but the evidence speaks for itself (Check out Smash Hits, by New Class War, Organise by the ACF, Subversion by Subversion etc). The repetitive revolutionary rhetoric that makes up anarchist propaganda is not only bullshit, it's boring. It doesn't inspire, it puts people off. The only purpose it serves is to fill space and give people a self-satisfied glow, because it is easier to write than put into practice.

If you take a look at any back issue of Class War you'll see that practically every article ends with the same "it's time to kick the rich" style sentence. So much repetition completely dulled any inspiration Class War might have created. Towards the end of its existence every issue became almost identical to the previous one. No one could be bothered doing anything different that might involve a bit of work or thought.

The language that Class War used actually came across as an attempt to manufacture the image that the Class War Federation were an integral part of the working class, rather than a natural expression of the organisation's relationship to the working class.

An example of this even occurred in our own Yorkshire Evening Pest. At a time when the whole of the traditional working-class following of football was decrying the influx of middle-class 'fans' who were pushing up admission prices; destroying the atmosphere; and making us all sit down, what did two of Leeds Class War's middle-class members do? They bought season tickets for Elland Road and became overnight Leeds United fans. Neither of them was from anywhere near Leeds. They hated Manchester United, of course (in spite of one of them coming from Surbiton), and developed opinions on the game worthy of lifelong Leeds supporters. They failed to see the irony of the situation, and even joined In with the general attitude of "it's our game being ruined by the champagne hospitality crowd".

We printed a couple of articles about Leslie Silver, the then Director of Leeds United: "The truth (sic) is that Silver and his cronies have never liked 'rabble' like us: we sing too loud and we don't have Swiss bank accounts. They'd love to see the ground full of director's boxes - where their rich mates stuff themselves with smoked salmon before watching the game on video". The real truth was that the authors of the article had only been going to the ground on the back of the trendy middle-class interest in football awakened by the publication of Fever Pitch. Like everything else that the middle class "discover", they fail to understand it. They dive in head first, hoping to find real life and, in the process, kill it off.

In short, Class War was boring and affected. It's no wonder the organisation dwindled and collapsed. Once you'd read one copy of Class War, you never needed to read another one, ever. The Class War Federation was then only capable of motivating its members and supporters by grabbing headlines in the middle-class media for various posturing. One example of this was the "keep it spikey - not fluffy" leaflet, which the tabloid press loved.

Other anarchist papers sink into the same problem. The last time I saw a copy of Direct Action (the paper of the Solidarity Federation), the back page had an article entitled something like. 'What is Anarcho-Syndicalism" (unfortunately, not sub-titled "a Cure for Insomnia"). In other words, practically the same article as was on the back page of the very first copy of Direct Action that I ever saw (and probably almost every one in between). The propaganda of the Solidarity Federation is basically the anarcho-syndicalist equivalent of a train spotting magazine.

Middle-class rebellion

The real problem is that the politics of the anarchist movement is based on middle-class rebellion. Because of their background, middle-class people generally find it easier to express themselves than working-class people. When the rebellious middle class take an interest in the anarchist movement, the working-class anarchists have to either tackle them head on, or move along. It is impossible for the middle class to have a neutral effect on anything they touch. They have to dominate. They can't absolve themselves by getting a relatively down market (but clean) job and living in a rough area. You can take the middle class out of the suburbs but you can't take the suburbs out of the middle class!

Another comment that sticks in my mind from when I was younger was made by someone who's house I stayed in in London. He said: "the middle class don't only run the State, they also run the anarchist movement". He then went on to rattle off names of people who had gone to the most prestigious public schools (unfortunately, I recently spotted him on TV in a public access programme about the Movement Against the Monarchy). At the time, I took this with a pinch of salt. I didn't dispute it, I knew the public schoolboys who were taking a definite leadership role within the movement. But, I thought that as long as we were all on the same side, it was alright. I thought, at the time, that the middle-class activists were capable of being anarchists - which I thought meant supporters of some kind of working-class revolution. I now know that they can not be. Their activity within the anarchist movement is restricted to maintaining their hold on it. This includes appearing to provide a useful contribution (they publish "better" books, their artwork is "better", they are able to explain their politics "better").

If you step back and observe it, it becomes quite clear that while the anarchist movement is supposed to be about taking power back, middle-class anarchists use their status, their background, their education and their cultural roots to retain control. I've often seen less articulate working-class people ridiculed and put in their place because they didn't have the confidence, or the experience, to speak as clearly as the middle-class leadership.

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that Leeds Class War, for example, was dominated by a couple of middle-class people, who came from extremely privileged backgrounds. It's easy to say now, but there were times when I should have at least spoken up about it.

At the time that I left the group I wanted to continue to contribute to the national paper. I was told by the middle-class leadership of Leeds CW that I wouldn't be allowed to - without either the group or the national organisation discussing the issue. At the time I was too gob-smacked and upset to argue. Surprise, surprise, when the group did discuss it, in my absence, the leadership, in some kind of Orwellian way had been right all along. I was not to be allowed to contribute to the national paper. I was told that the rules of the organisation stated that all members of the Class War Federation had to be members of a local group. If I wasn't going to be a member of Leeds CW, they were taking their ball home. At the time, the rules also stated that they were not to be considered tablets of stone. The rules were being used by the leadership of Leeds Class War to exclude me from Class War nationally, because I didn't agree with them. I added myself to the list of working-class members who had enough.

I later heard that the same sort of thing had happened to another working-class ex-member from Liverpool Class War. When he decided that he didn't want to waste his time with the local group but wanted to continue to work on the national paper. It creases me up now to think how important these people think they are, and the way they make decisions about who can and can not be involved in their organisations. The membership of CW at that time was already less than a hundred in the whole country.

Middle-class domination has left the movement so confused that from inside it's impossible to see that it even happens, but from the outside it is obvious that the middle class wouldn't stick with it if they weren't running the show.

I can think of another illustration. While I was a member of Leeds Class War, the group was asked by another local anarchist group if they could share our PO box. They were mainly students, punky/hippy 'anarchos' and were linked to the ACF. We hesitated, rightly in my opinion (in fact, I'd now tell them to fuck off). We wanted to know what kind of propaganda would be produced with our address on it. Basically, the bottom line was that none of us wanted anything to do with a bunch of animal rights nutters. Anyway, so that we could check them out, we invited them to one of our social evenings. Towards the end of the night, I was talking to one of them, and he raised the issue of the PO box. I said that I'd try to get a decision for him that night. Off I went to speak to the secretary of the group.

Her response was: "I'll ask Brian if it's alright". In other words, although we'd all had reservations, Brian was the person she considered most able to make a sensible decision on our behalf. It seemed odd to me that while the whole group was at the social, we weren't all going to have a say in making the decision. I quickly gathered everyone round and within a few seconds we were able to tell the other group that they could use the PO box. Brian Laing, for the record, went to public school and Cambridge University. I don't think the group secretary was conscious of the fact that she was taking decision making power away from the group, and handing it to the group leadership. I think it just seemed natural to her to ask Brian to make the decision.

Brian is a man with many endearing qualities. For example, he slips anti-semitic jokes into his conversations; he continually makes derogatory comments about people with red hair; he laughs at a lot of people behind their backs in a particularly nasty way (I was going to list them here, but basically if you've met Brian, he has laughed at you behind your back, unless you are one of three people in his clique, you know who you are!). He is a nasty individual. He used to hang out with Norman Blair. Norman was accurately described as "one of the most clueless and deluded middle class pricks in London" in the back of The Enemy is Middle Class. Norman went to Winchester public school, which costs as much as my parent's house is worth in annual school fees and yet he has acquired a cockney accent.

If they can not come up with some kind of meaningful revolutionary activity, and they never will while they are part of a movement that is dominated by the middle class, working-class anarchists may as well stop trying. There is no reason, other than self-satisfaction (or what used to be called "life style-ism"), for continuing to put energy into a movement that is entirely self-contained and has no links with reality. It is going nowhere. The most astute political ideology in the world is only negative if it is used as a means of separation from the working class for the enlightened few. The mire that is anarchist theory is not astute at all, even when it includes the words "working class" on the front of its publications.

No ideology is revolutionary

I've rejected anarchism now. It's based in an ideology that actually prevents it achieving what it supposedly aspires to. As a step towards a revolutionary theory it may be valuable, to a certain extent, for some people. Coming from a working class background, I found it useful in a way, because it confirmed to me that there was more to life than school, work, marriage, kids and death. It also had a negative influence on me. The negative outweighed the positive.

Like all ideologies, once they are unable to stand up to reality (as they inevitably are), it's time to ditch them. In fact, it's time to ditch all ideologies and start concentrating solely, and pragmatically, on class issues. Whenever conflict arises, the first question any working-class activist should be asking themselves should not be "what is the anarchist line on this?" but, "how can I contribute to the working class winning something, both in the long and the short term?" The only answer for revolutionaries, in any political debate, is: "my class, the working class, right or wrong". Anarchism in general, apart from the ridiculous versions that exist just now is unable to do this because it is tied to a rhetoric, a set of assumptions and historical precedents that muddy the water.

This is the case because ideologies are sets of ideas that are supposed to explain how the world works. AII ideologies put politics into little packages of absolute truths. Once we start thinking of 'revolutionary ideology' as a tool for political activity we are sucked into the world of middle-class domination and reproduction of their control over us because, whatever the ideology, they are the experts in it. They are the ones with the time to pontificate about the meaning of life, and what we need. They are the ones with the articulation skills, which actually enable them to cover over the fact that they are unable to articulate anything of any value at all. Discussion of political activity is reduced to. "does it fit in with the ideology?" In other words, does it fit in with the interests of the mlddle-class experts in the ideology, rather than the fundamental question: "does it serve the interests of the working class?" Working-class political activists should ditch all ideologies.

As an Illustration of the way ideology has been used to serve the interests of the middle class, let's look at one of their absolute truths: in all anarchist publications, the point is made that our great enemy is the 'ruling class'. This ruling class is separate from the middle class.

Whoever worked that theory out obviously didn't: go to our schools; sign on at our dole offices; go to work at our workplaces; watch the shit we watch on telly; get treated like cattle at football matches; rent a shit house; go to a trade union meeting; get hassled by the police, etc. Anyone who did would know that it is the middle class, in all its guises which is our most obvious and direct enemy.

The middle class is, in terms of its role in oppressing the working class completely indistinguishable from any so called ruling class, and is therefore one and the same thing. And yet, in order to justify their involvement in what they call "class politics" middle-class anarchists claim that it's the rich, the state, the ruling class, the Government, capitalism etc. that we should fight against. Not them and their domination of us.

Like everything else the middle class touch (our art, our sport, our culture), political activity loses its lifeblood as soon as the middle class get involved. They talk about revolution, how to make one, and what the world will be like afterwards, but only among their cliques. While that suits the academics who make a living studying ideologies, middle-class 'revolutionaries' use ideologies in an attempt to destroy independent working-class political activity, ideas and thought etc. Working class experience is belittled. To them, we are uncouth. They gave us racism and now they condemn us for being racist. They gave us sexism and now they condemn us for being sexist

Discussion of a future revolution with middle-class input is meaningless - for the simple reason that what the middle-class revolutionaries want is completely different to what the working class needs. When I was a member of Class War, the national secretary seriously argued that 'gender issues' were more important than class issues. I believe that what appear to be gender issues, when middle-class ideology gets to work (ie acting against working-class interests, confusing the issues to hide the fact that working-class women have nothing in common with middle-class women), are in fact class issues.

They have no appreciation of what it's like to go to bed hungry and cold, with holes in the front of their shoes as a kid. They don't grow up seeing their parents working themselves into an early grave. They've never had to live off bread and jam for days on end. They don't have anything material to worry about except what they invent to make their pathetic lives more interesting - and middle class political activity is part of that. Political theory is an interesting hobby to them. Their packaged ideology is their way of trying to bamboozle us into either following their leadership, or apathy, which has the same end result.

The middle-class 'revolutionary left' assume that their ideology is more important than the interests of the working class. And where has this led them? To create irrelevant organisations,

that reflect their interests but pretend to be for working-class revolution (thankfully, the working class is completely oblivious to their efforts). This is the result of over two centuries of middle-class meddling in our affairs. They've always used us to fight their battles, from the English Civil War, through the French and American revolutions, to the Russian revolution not to mention all the national wars since the Armada. We don't need their bullshit (which is based on their bourgeois revolutions - "liberty, equality, fraternity") They need us to fulfil their wet dreams.

In their dreams, the middle-class left rely on our compliance with their ideology in order to build what they call a revolutionary organisation. They imagine that all we need is to understand their ideology properly and then we will get in line. However, if we were to become confident in our own abilities, and to understand our own interests, there would no longer be a space for middle-class lefties. In fact that is exactly what happens, and explains the left's complete failure.

I mentioned the Poll Tax campaign earlier. One of the most important features of that movement, which eventually resulted in the abolition of the Poll Tax, was independent working-class action. Neither the left parties, nor the anarchists were able to rein people in to the formal movement.

Without revolutionary ideology to cloud their vision, the working class knew that the Poll Tax was unworkable if they decided to make it thus.

I was at meeting after meeting when the Socialist Worker Party and Militant desperately tried to use the Poll Tax as bait to catch members for their Parties. While we were trying to pull people in to the actual campaign, the overwhelming majority quite rightly wanted nothing to do with us as politicos.

That is something that the middle-class revolutionaries just can't handle. Middle-class revolutionaries need to believe that we are dependent on their leadership. Otherwise, they become superfluous. In order to convince themselves they develop their ideology - an ideology written and spoken in terms of what they want us to believe working-class self-interest is, but in fact based on what their own interests are.

Anarchism actually distances working-class anarchists from the working class. I mentioned earlier that getting involved with anarchism had had a negative effect on me. It made it impossible for me to communicate with my own class. It provided me with a vocabulary, culture and lifestyle that differentiated me from my roots - tainted with middle-class attitudes. And it has made it harder for me to get back to where I should have been all along.

The development of working-class confidence and activity is not part of their ideology in spite of their slogans. They have no desire to communicate with the working class, and certainly no desire to learn from the working class. My experience within Leeds Class War, in spite of the slogans on the front of the paper was that working-class members were discouraged (and ridiculed) because their ideas and their development were not taken seriously. I've heard it said that one working class ex-member of Class War in particular "had no politics" because her ideas did not fit in with what the leadership defined as politics.

They become middle-class revolutionaries because they see the need for some kind of change in society. They learn about revolutionary politics from their books, but then they are disappointed that the working class doesn't fit in with their preconceptions. How could it? They are unable to understand working-class culture, except as part of a sociology lecture. They never really come into contact with the working class.

Conclusion

My aim, while I was involved in the anarchist movement, as I hope I've shown by some of the above examples, was (after my early youthful involvement) to drag working-class political activists out of the anarchist mire. I hoped to shift the directionless anarchists into direct contact with the working class.

Similarly, the aim of this work is not to dispirit working-class activists. My intention is to share my experiences of my decade within the anarchist movement, and explain why my enthusiasm eventually wore off. I also try to explain why I think the anarchist movement is the shambles that it is, and why I no longer believe anarchism is a revolutionary practice. My real intention is to encourage working-class anarchists to question why they are involved in such a movement, and to inspire them to seek other ways of taking part in the class struggle. After all, you can only set up so many anarchist groups and centres before it becomes clear that what you are doing is pointless, can't you?

The anarchist movement is rubbish, and it can never be anything else, no matter how many times some people try to launch new initiatives that are meant to breath fresh life into it. Smash Hits is just 'New Class War' in a time of New Labour - a time of nonsectarian 'open discussion'. I've seen it all before. But it's not just because the majority of people involved in it are either middle-class wasters or middle-class politicos. Anarchism itself does not provide ideological answers to the needs or the working class. We need to escape from the mentality of the "revolutionary" and start looking at working-class reality, without the hindrance of middle-class involvement.

I've met some brilliant people during my involvement in the anarchist movement. Some are lifelong friends, and some are still in the anarchist movement. They should get out, but I do know how difficult that is.

Footnote

While I've been writing this work, I thought it would be useful to check out more recent anarchist propaganda. Who knows, it might have got better in the years that I've not been involved. I needn't have bothered though. Green Anarchist for one have gone more batty than ever. Surely it's a only a matter of time before they are in one kind of cell or another. Of the others, there is nothing in the publications of the ACF, Class War or any other group that makes me think that anything positive is starting to emerge out of them.

Out of politeness more than anything else, a couple of people have, over the years told me that they are setting up an "anarchist centre" or "organising a conference in Bradford". It all amounts to nothing, because the same people turn up talking the same bollocks. There are variations on themes, but anarchist politics is still middle-class dominated

On a brighter note, over the past couple of years, a network of working-class activists have started feeling their way around and making contact with each other. Various working class political campaigns are finding that they have a lot in common with each other. It may or may not come to something but whatever happens it is far more interesting than the anarchist movement.

homepage: http://www.openlyclassist.org.uk

bcbm
14th August 2006, 09:38
Thanks for posting the rest of that, since it makes more explicit what the initial part touched on: that while this article is specifically dealing with the "anarchist movement," it could just as easily be about any number (all, in fact) of other political ideologies and groupings on the left, something some of the members on here who are quick to try and make some sectarian jabs fail to notice...


I do struggle to feel any great sympathy with him when he's so sectarian

Said the pot to the kettle. :wacko:



. Yet, and there is no way this can be denied, when workers break with capitalism, in most countries in the world, not only the West, they move towards revolutionary socialism and Marxism to far larger degrees than they do anarchism.

Perhaps this had something to do with the USSR (and, later, China) being able to pump cash into the coffers of parties it supported?


Is there a serious analysis out there in the anarcho milieu as to why this is, apart from the conspiracy theories about the media and the "Bolshies"? It'd be interesting to hear if it exists.

Not that I've encountered. Anarchists are, after all, merely "organized stupity." But seriously, I'd say it has to do with what I mentioned above about the funding and the more recent introduction of punk music and primitivist bullshit to the anarchist mileu, something a lot of us are trying to purge.

Black Dagger
14th August 2006, 14:18
I love all the marxists and anti-anarchist-types masturbating over this shit, its fucking hilarious :lol: Problem is, most anarchists are aware of and acknowledge the failings, inadequacies etc. of the anarchist 'movement' at the moment - perhaps you all would do well to take the same critical eye to YOUR political groups and movements, in an honest, straight-up fashion. Recently in oz there has been some discussion (mainly with folks from melbum) about whether we are a 'movement' or a 'scene' - and trying to keep ourselves centred on the former rather than the latter, its been a real good process of re-evaluation, and is helping us organise with more purpose and direction for the future, but we need more resources, for 'middle class' or 'bourgeois' anarchist types we sure are low on cash! :lol:

That this article was posted by one of the most vehemently sectarian anti-anarchists on this board i find pretty pathetic, because its clear that you have no interest in helping anarchists or the anarchist movement to change, to improve, to actually work on itself and correct the problems that we face. Rather you are only here to mock and belittle from a position of sectarian hate, completely unproductive, and unhelpful, so a big, piss off to people like that! And a big :wub: to all the anarchists and non-sectarians who wanna engage in serious, meaningful, constructive debate and discussion that is gonna help the working class movement in general, to improve and progress.

Then you have the ill-informed, 'if anarchists didnt prioritise the state they wouldnt be so fucked up!' kind of fools who stumble to join the sectarian circle-jerk, sorry, but you have no idea what you're talking about. The state and capitalism are not prioritised, this is a joint demand, we want the abolition of capitalism and the smashing of the bourgeois state structure, it's not one or the other. You understand anarchism and the anarchist movement, its composition, about as well as you understand, say, queer theory, how repulsive!

bcbm
14th August 2006, 14:46
we need more resources, for 'middle class' or 'bourgeois' anarchist types we sure are low on cash!

You don't have a trust fund you can be drawing from? Or parents? :blink:


Rather you are only here to mock and belittle from a position of sectarian hate, completely unproductive, and unhelpful, so a big, piss off to people like that!

Indeed, if any of the folks slagging anarchists in this thread would visit Openly Classist, they may notice that those folks have the same message for Communists as anarchists: FUCK OFF. :rolleyes:

Don't Change Your Name
15th August 2006, 00:20
Interesting but long and with a confusing usage of "middle class". "The enemy is Middle Class"? Yeah sure...

violencia.Proletariat
15th August 2006, 06:11
Theres nothing wrong with class war anarchism, theres just something wrong with most of the "anarchists." :lol:

Black Dagger
15th August 2006, 06:35
Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2006, 01:12 PM
Theres nothing wrong with class war anarchism, theres just something wrong with most of the "anarchists." :lol:
Are you still calling yourself an anarchist?

violencia.Proletariat
15th August 2006, 06:46
Originally posted by Black [email protected] 14 2006, 11:36 PM

Are you still calling yourself an anarchist?
Yes. I ask myself the same question as the guy who wrote this article did. Why is it that we don't have a CGT with 60,000 workers in it? Why is it we don't even have a CNT with 10,000? We can only muster 1500 in a union that is "no politics." What the fuck is wrong with our movement? Well, it's exactly what those "leninists" keep telling us, its not a workers movement.

We know anarchism isn't inherently anti-working class or some other bullshit. Our movement is shit because of its membership, its time to admit to it! We must bring the anarchist banner (actually we must rip this "banner" to shreds because anarchism isnt a banner, its a specific idealogy) back to its original place, the class war. When the anarchist struggle against the capitalist state is brought back to the working person where it belongs, we will start to see it grow. Right now we're off fighting to save some puppies or eating trees or whatever the fuck those college activists do. If we want to start seeing our organizations grow, start building real organizations. No one gives a shit about your history book club. Get out there and grow the anarchist syndicalist union.

Nothing Human Is Alien
15th August 2006, 08:19
for 'middle class' or 'bourgeois' anarchist types we sure are low on cash! :lol:

Class isn't determined by the amount of money you have, it's determined by your relation to the means of production. Needless to say, the petty-bourgeoisie and bourgeoisie usually have alot more money than the proles.. but not always.. there are small shop owners in the U.S. that make much less money in a year than say, a coal miner in the U.S. who runs a machine and makes $100,000 or more.

Comrade-Z
15th August 2006, 08:30
I thought, at the time, that the middle-class activists were capable of being anarchists - which I thought meant supporters of some kind of working-class revolution. I now know that they can not be. Their activity within the anarchist movement is restricted to maintaining their hold on it. This includes appearing to provide a useful contribution (they publish "better" books, their artwork is "better", they are able to explain their politics "better").


I've often seen less articulate working-class people ridiculed and put in their place because they didn't have the confidence, or the experience, to speak as clearly as the middle-class leadership.

I think this is a major impediment to proletarian revolution. As long as the proletariat can't express itself as well as it wants to, but instead feels compelled to rely on middle-class types, as long as they can't produce their own brilliant theoretical guidance, but rely on middle-class types to do it, how will they ever rule as a class for themselves? Yes, the middle-class shouldn't be dominating these movements, but there's an objective reason why that's happening at the moment: the middle-class is clever in this regard, and the working class just lets them get away with it. I know this may sound somewhat like a "blame the victim" argument, but making the working class into a victim here in the first place deprives them of the expectation that they can change things. They CAN! And they should.

I reckon it's about time we had some "Proletarian ONLY" anarchist organizations (to which I would be prohibited, as it stands, because by no means can I claim to be a proletarian, truth be told. Students really aren't proletarians. Well, more precisely, college students, who are more often than not just managers-in-training. That, or middle-class professionals in training. Sometimes you get some college-educated proletarians (like philosophy majors who can't do jack shit with their degree and end up working at Pizza Hut), who tend to be rather deadly to the ruling class.)

Comrade-Z
15th August 2006, 08:52
Once we start thinking of 'revolutionary ideology' as a tool for political activity we are sucked into the world of middle-class domination and reproduction of their control over us because, whatever the ideology, they are the experts in it. They are the ones with the time to pontificate about the meaning of life, and what we need. They are the ones with the articulation skills, which actually enable them to cover over the fact that they are unable to articulate anything of any value at all. Discussion of political activity is reduced to. "does it fit in with the ideology?" In other words, does it fit in with the interests of the mlddle-class experts in the ideology, rather than the fundamental question: "does it serve the interests of the working class?" Working-class political activists should ditch all ideologies.

All the gloating Leninists should read this. This person is not proposing a turn to Leninism (this author seems to suggest that that movement is plagued with many of the same middle-class issues as well). This author is proposing that we drop the focus on ideology and look at specific circumstances and specific issues, relating them to a conception of where we want to go in the short and long term. I think this makes a lot of sense. "Someone who speaks of theory without connecting it to everyday life has a corpse in his mouth." Or something like that.


The middle class is, in terms of its role in oppressing the working class completely indistinguishable from any so called ruling class, and is therefore one and the same thing. And yet, in order to justify their involvement in what they call "class politics" middle-class anarchists claim that it's the rich, the state, the ruling class, the Government, capitalism etc. that we should fight against. Not them and their domination of us.

Good point. When push comes to shove, the middle-class almost always sides with the capitalist class.


When I was a member of Class War, the national secretary seriously argued that 'gender issues' were more important than class issues. I believe that what appear to be gender issues, when middle-class ideology gets to work (ie acting against working-class interests, confusing the issues to hide the fact that working-class women have nothing in common with middle-class women), are in fact class issues.

Whoa. This is brilliant. I never even realized this. It is not enough to simply talk about "gender issues" or "race issues," but one must go a step further and center it on "proletarian gender issues" and "proletarian race issues."

Black Dagger
15th August 2006, 08:56
Originally posted by nate+--> (nate)We know anarchism isn't inherently anti-working class or some other bullshit. Our movement is shit because of its membership, its time to admit to it! We must bring the anarchist banner (actually we must rip this "banner" to shreds because anarchism isnt a banner, its a specific idealogy) back to its original place, the class war. When the anarchist struggle against the capitalist state is brought back to the working person where it belongs, we will start to see it grow. Right now we're off fighting to save some puppies or eating trees or whatever the fuck those college activists do. If we want to start seeing our organizations grow, start building real organizations. No one gives a shit about your history book club. Get out there and grow the anarchist syndicalist union.
[/b]

I agree, but that is not an original idea or criticism, infact i read something like very much like this... a few days ago. Building anarcho-syndicalist unions is easier said than done, we need to build the base, an anarchist community, to improve our networking, our connections with anarchists and non-anarchist WC people regionally, nationally and internationally, and we need more resources. These are all tasks that remain to be completed at present, but that is not to say that people are not working towards these goals, or that they will not be achieved - i think whilst it is good to be reminded of what needs to be done, it can often become pessimistic, defeatist and unproductive and that is kind of shit that should be avoided.



CDL
Class isn't determined by the amount of money you have, it's determined by your relation to the means of production. Needless to say, the petty-bourgeoisie and bourgeoisie usually have alot more money than the proles.. but not always.. there are small shop owners in the U.S. that make much less money in a year than say, a coal miner in the U.S. who runs a machine and makes $100,000 or more.

So what are you saying? Hmm?

What is the point of this clarification?

That the anarchist movement is made up of small business owners?

That the anarchists and anarchist orgs that im involved with dont have resources because we're all struggling small business owners?

You make an obvious point (about the relationship between class and the means of production), but yet it has zero relevance, or meaning in the context of what i said - frankly because its' bullshit.

We lack resources because we dont have rich sponsors, because we do not own capital, because we are the unemployed, because we are workers and so forth - not because we have made some bad investments, why must you drive this wedge further and further everytime?

I try fucking hard to be civil, to avoid these kinds of unproductive confrontations as much as possible, why should i even bother? Really? I mean i took time out of my life, and im fucking over-worked at the moment, to help you and the Free People's Movement, because you asked for help and i knew i could contribute something - and i would have donated money to your legal fund if i had a credit-card and if i had money to spare, and yet you continue to spit in my face, and the face of anarchism/anarchists at any opportunity, what on earth is the point? How do these sorts of attacks help anyone? How are they productive?

The Feral Underclass
15th August 2006, 13:44
Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2006, 01:25 AM
I have my own ideas about the "middle classness" of the anarchist movement. It seems to me that if your primary "enemy" is not capitalism but the "the state" - a supra-historical political form that seems to "pop up" every now and again to foil emancipatory projects - then it's obvious your class formation will be "mixed".
Firstly, any revolutionary organisation will have a "mix of classess", unless you have a selective membership.

Secondly, you have to differentiate between class struggle anarchist and post-left anarchy"ism".

Class struggle anarchism is specifically opposed to capitalism first and foremost, but see the destruction against the state [in whatever form] as key to that struggle.

Post left anarchy tends to focus primarily on the state and struggles against capitalism from an environmentalist perspective. This is section of the "anarchist" movement is where you will find predominately middle class young people and "trustafarians".


You will attract many workers because of some of the class war rhetoric and the genral working class antipathy to the agents of the bourgeois state, but you'll also attract many middle class people who've inherited the strong "anti-authoritarian" streak in middle class political culture.

Is that a criticism?


It's impossible, I feel, to have your main enemy as the "state" and still maintain a serious class struggle outlook. Because surely anyone can be "anti-state" regardless of their class position?

I agree generally with that, but anyone can also be "anti-capitalist" regardless of their class position.

You do not have to be working class to be anti-capitalist, but you must be working class if you "want" to have [actual] power to destroy capitalism.


I also find the pre-occupations about gender somewhat ironic given the blatant, vitriolic misogyny of one of their main men, Proudon.

It's always very odd when people bring up Proudhon as a sexist, as if Karl Marx was a shining beacon of open-mindedness (racist and anti-semite).

Proudhons sexism is not the basis of his anarchism or future anarchism, just as Marx's racism was not the basis for his "Marxism."

Also, Proudhon has little to no influence on the modern anarchist movement, post 1871.


So we can learn that the historical goal of the anarchist movement is to beat up socialists because they are Leninists?

Probably because it's fun...

The Feral Underclass
15th August 2006, 13:55
Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2006, 04:12 AM
Theres nothing wrong with class war anarchism, theres just something wrong with most of the "anarchists." :lol:
I would say it was about 50/50. In fact, if you look at the anarchist groups listed in the Political Organisaitons thread, (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=31615) you will see that the vast majority of them, if not all of them (I haven't listed ELF or ALF) are class struggle anarchist organisations.


I ask myself the same question as the guy who wrote this article did. Why is it that we don't have a CGT with 60,000 workers in it? Why is it we don't even have a CNT with 10,000?

Well, that's the same for any left political movement, not just the anarchist one. I think the problem with anarchist movements is that we do not use the tactics which are likely to attract mainstream support, which Marxists groups tend to do openly.

We do not engage in reformist tatics, for example, and we do not attempt to hide our intentions in an [opportunistic] attempt to seem more "approachable" to everyday people?

If that's your criticism then fine, but I do not think anarchists using reformist tactics or watering down our rhetoric is a valid way to progress the anarchist movement.


Our movement is shit because of its membership, its time to admit to it!

There are sections of the anarchist movement who are "shit", but there are extremely active class struggle anarchists who do allot of work.


Right now we're off fighting to save some puppies or eating trees or whatever the fuck those college activists do.

You have a very mypoic view of the anarchist movement. It's really the same as the right or the Marxists.

The anarchist movement is not, singularly, "off fighting to save some puppies." In Britain, the main focus has been with anti-opression struggles, anti-casualisation and anti-war.

Has enough been done? No, there hasn't, but your analysis that the anarchist movement is primarly about puppies and trees is really naive.


Get out there and grow the anarchist syndicalist union.

I find it intolerable that young people sit on the internet barking orders at people, yet do little to fuck all to head their own commands.

What are you doing to grow this anarchist syndicalist union?

The Feral Underclass
15th August 2006, 13:56
Originally posted by Comrade-[email protected] 15 2006, 06:31 AM
I reckon it's about time we had some "Proletarian ONLY" anarchist organizations
What would that achieve?

Segragating people from political activity based on class, serves absolutely no purpose to developing a class struggle movement.

apathy maybe
15th August 2006, 14:17
I am going to post my replies in three or so posts. This is to break it up and make it easier to read. Firstly will be initial comments and comments on the first part of the article. Secondly will be comments to the second part (which I start at "No ideology is revolutionary") and thirdly will be replies to other comments. (And yes I do have too much time on my hands, actually I have at least three essays I should be writing. And I am not out there smashing the state for personal reasons.)

Firstly my initial comments:
It is obvious that many of the comments and criticisms from this could equally be applied to a number Marxist organisations (Socialist Alternative in Australia comes springing to mind ...), single issue groups, and other "left" groups and "lifestylist" groups.

He seems to be attacking "lifestylism" (as defined by Bookchin, living the life, and not being active. Being part of the cliché, defending your cliché and attacking others.), as well as useless meetings, propaganda ("news"papers) and anything that he thinks is not going to help his class, "the working class, right or wrong".

He also really doesn't seem to like the middle-class. I guess the middle class are those who consume, but don't work dirty jobs. Doctors, teachers, accountants, office jobs.


Now for comments on specifics:


No one made decisions that I had to follow, at least not formally (though there was a strong moral code - this included things like: you weren’t allowed to be openly into porn; you couldn't say the word "****" out loud; you had to be vegan; at that time you weren't supposed to be into football, etc. If you went against any of these, you could be an outcast).
These issues should be discussed and worked out, not just forbidden. Take porn for example, why not? But saying "****" as an insult is a thing that people should not do. It links a very nice part of the female body with something bad.

Anyway, as I said above, this is a problem with clichés.



I got stuck into everything that was going on. I got involved in the more extreme kind of animal rights activity because I thought I was "doing the business". I became an "anti-sexist man" after being introduced to radical feminist ideas. I took up anti-fascist activity. I was an activist. Whatever came my way, I took it up with enthusiasm. I was certainly active. I was not a revolutionary.I've noticed this myself in the activist scene. You oppose or support things based on what everyone else thinks.

In Australia an obvious example is that of Aboriginal rights. Now the native people in Australia are some of the most disadvantaged in the overdeveloped world. Sub-standard house, health care, problems with violence etc.

Many activists thus support whatever they do, and it is bad form not to. But the land obviously wasn't always Aboriginal land (only for the past 40000 - 65000 years), and it obviously won't always be Aboriginal land.

As an anarchist, I find some of the practices in Aboriginal culture distasteful (maybe it is not real Aboriginal culture, maybe just what has become their culture because of white interference, but the point remains). Examples include, the attitude by some towards women, and the power given to Elders.

Another couple of issues in Australia are Genetic Engineering and nano-technology. While I can certainly see some problems, I feel that eventually (probably after the demise of capitalism), these technologies will be incredibly useful.

And activism isn't revolutionary. Unfortunately I don't know what else is either.



We also got involved in a campaign to stop the deportation of a bloke from Sri Lanka who was seeking sanctuary in a church in Hulme, Manchester. Viraj Mendis happened to be a member of the Revolutionary Communist Group (RCG). The way the RCG were using the bloke was pitiful, but it did cut both ways (one popular chant at the time was "When Viraj Mendis is finally free, He will leave the RCG"). Without the RCG he would have been just another deported refugee.An example of how a Marxist group will latch onto somebody or cause and try and gain good publicity (seen it happen here too, with some El Salvadorians).



Another regular event was trashing political meetings.Sounds fun.



Those are just some examples of the kind of things I got up to. In all that time, I rarely stood back and really asked why I was doing it all. When these thoughts came into my head, I was satisfied wlth the argument that we were carrying a new world in our hearts. One "comrade" used to say that we were "ambassadors of anarchism". We were keeping anarchism alive for the future. Our work was propaganda by deed. Our books were inflammatory. I was satisfying my conscience by my activism. At least I wasn't just lying down and taking what society was throwing at me
"At least you're doing something", "you have more guts then the rest of us", both things that have been told to me. But I haven't managed to change society yet.

If you don't want societies shit, leave it. What you can't? Smash it then.



Over time I did start to question things like:
why did the movement never get any bigger?
The problem is that the majority of people in the overdeveloped countries are happy with their lot, or don't have enough time, or aren't convinced that our methods are better.
This question also applies to Marxist organisations.


why was there never any progress?
It sucks doesn't it.
This question also applies to Marxist organisations.

why are anarchists generally unreliable?Most people are unreliable, not just anarchists. That is why you only find a small number of people actively campaigning for a cause (generally).
This question also applies to Marxists.


Why did most anarchists have no enthusiasm for anything that required understanding, planning and patience?See the above answer. Most people want immediate results, they want change now. If they don't see it, they often become disillusioned.
This question also applies to Marxists.



However, anarchism is ambiguous. Anarchist theory developed out of the struggle against the encroachment of the capitalist organisation of everyday life ... historically, anarchism has a bourgeois, or middle class side to it. Having said that, at least some strands of anarchism are firmly tied to working-class struggle ... [t]here is a rich and proud history of working-class activists who have described themselves as anarchists - people who have been able to participate in working-class struggle as part of that class, and who have gained the respect of their fellow workers.Anarchism of cause has a "bourgeois" or "middle class" side to it. As mentioned they wished to break away from the state imposed restrictions on them. But this side is Liberalism, and that is a different ideology. Anarchists wish to abolish the state, liberals (and the bourgeois) wish merely to restrict its power. But there has been cross pollination, just like there has been between anarchism and Marxism.


Since the early development of anarchism as a revolutionary theory there have also been the wankers and bull-shitters who have served to destroy any credibility that anarchism has within the working class. Today's anarchist movement owes more to the bull-shitters than the heroes. A conspiracy theorist may spot that this state of affairs suits those with a vested interest in the status quo. The average modern anarchist is generally more concerned with the way they look and the food they eat than any other kind of "struggle". This is Bookchin's "lifestylist". Anarchism is not about the way you look, or the food you eat. It is about abolishing hierarchy, fighting power. But, there exist some people who are drawn to the lifestyle aspects of, for example, punk. Punk is about challenging the norm, it is anarchist to a certain extent. But people who just listen to the music and dress the dress, they aren't punk.

Unless you have the political ideas to go with the lifestyle, then you are just a "lifestylist", just another sub-culture who doesn't want to abolish the dominate culture.

So even if some anarchists are vegan, there are also some vegans who are generally happy with the status quo.



I found that the anarchist movement attracts a lot of "discontented" people. It's like a lamp attracting moths. Often people who are able to be charismatic within cliques find a niche. Many of them have had the benefit of a middle-class education. On the other hand, it also attracts a lot of social misfits and inadequates. Maybe these two kinds of people go together, feed off each other. Some anarchists I've met have serious mental health problems (over and above those that make them want to call themselves anarchists in the first place). More generally, anarchists are people for whom political activity is a substitute for a real social life.Sure. And I know Marxists for whom political activist is a substitute for a real social life.

And yes anarchism does attract "discontents", "social misfits" and "inadequates", this is because it is an obvious group of ideologies that want to fix the social problems they see. (And I guess the author had mental problems too, saying that anarchists have them. Most likely he still does.)
But regardless, saying that anarchism attracts what the author obviously feels are "undesirables" is pointless. So a small minority of people have problems, the rest don't. Generalisations are bad people ... (generally).



The movement is characterised by internal disagreement. The amount of "clear blue water" between, say, the Green Anarchists and the Solidarity Federation makes it ridiculous to talk about a single movement.True, same with the Marxists.

The wide range of ideas that come under the anarchist banner makes it easy for anybody who has the slightest gripe about society to describe themselves as an anarchist and fit in with the rest of the anarchists.False, but it is true that anarchism has a wide number of ideologies under its banner. Anarchism is not an ideology, it is a super-ideology.

The overarching political liberalism that this encourages ("we should respect each other’s opinion, even if we don’t agree with their interpretation of what anarchism is") makes it impossible for those who believe in a more political version of anarchism to detach themselves from the clowns.Bullshit. Just call your self the anarcho-communist-punks (or whatever) and claim no responsibility for anything other anarchists do.

The movement has no coherence and no direction. It’s not merely a joke to suggest that anarchists differ on the fundamental meaning of "anarchy".Of course the movement has not coherence, it is not a movement. And yes some anarchists do disagree on what is meant by anarchy and anarchism, so to do Marxists disagree on Marxism.


(More stuff about how people are lazy, sure they are.)



Popular, but not revolutionary, activities on the other hand had plenty of takers. Take the example of "animal rights".Sure... but this is a problem in more then just the anarchist "movement".

A bunch of stuff about "middle class" activism. That's not a problem of anarchism, that's a problem of people who are otherwise happy with the status quo attacking something that they find distasteful. Why would you expect class analysis?

What I don't understand is why those people also considered themselves to be revolutionaries.I don't think they do consider themselves revolutionaries in the sense of abolish capitalism and even the state.


Working-class people, for example, don't make a big deal about squatting, they just do it when necessary. Middle-class squatters do it when it is not necessary and then they stand up and shout about it because they think is it is a cool thing to do. They can always go back to their parents when they get evicted. What fun! I like squatting! And if I get evicted, I'll just go back and sleep in the park.


(Large discussion about how people are slack and don't turn up to meetings, protests or what have you. How they also rubbish anyone else's position (Marxists anyone?).

apathy maybe
15th August 2006, 14:24
Second part.


As I said, he doesn't like middle class for some reason.



I've rejected anarchism now. It's based in an ideology that actually prevents it achieving what it supposedly aspires to.Notice he doesn't explain how.

Like all ideologies, once they are unable to stand up to reality (as they inevitably are), it's time to ditch them.True.

A bunch of stuff about how the middle class are controlling anarchist organisations and how they control the issues.

The author really doesn't like the middle class.


The middle class is, in terms of its role in oppressing the working class completely indistinguishable from any so called ruling class, and is therefore one and the same thing. And yet, in order to justify their involvement in what they call "class politics" middle-class anarchists claim that it's the rich, the state, the ruling class, the Government, capitalism etc. that we should fight against. Not them and their domination of us. The state, capitalism, etc. are all dominating us. The middle class don't have power like the ruling class does. They don't pass laws or employ police, as the middle class they don't even control corporations.



They become middle-class revolutionaries because they see the need for some kind of change in society. They learn about revolutionary politics from their books, but then they are disappointed that the working class doesn't fit in with their preconceptions. How could it? They are unable to understand working-class culture, except as part of a sociology lecture. They never really come into contact with the working class. Further up he dismisses middle class people who join the working class as still being middle class. Here he reckons that workers can lose there culture.



Conclusion, the anecdotes are certainly interesting, however, in the second part the author strays into a rant that has no backing from what I can see. He accuses the "middle class" of all sorts of crimes, dismisses the fight against state and capitalism and generally tries to push his new wheelbarrow.

His new wheelbarrow being a rant against the middle class. As I said above, what actual power does the middle class have? His hatred has shifted from where ever it was (and he doesn't really make that clear), to the middle class. Sure the shopkeeper is making a profit, but it is the state that lets him keep it. It is the state that introduced the Poll Tax. The corporations that were going to dig that mine. The middle class don't have power, they just have the power to consume more then the poor.

It seems that this bloke is being payed by the rich (or maybe MI5) to turn attention from the real enemies, towards a fake one (one whom at least according to orthodox Marxists will eventually become part of the proletariat).

I am sure we all agree that the enemy is the people in power, even if we disagree about who those people are. Similarly, I am sure that we agree that the people who are in power, aren't the middle class.

apathy maybe
15th August 2006, 14:34
Originally posted by Comrade-Z+--> (Comrade-Z)Something that makes me feel very uncomfortable and out of place in the anarchist milieu around where I live is that they seem to have a strong aversion to discussing any theory whatsoever.[/b]Doesn't seem like the case on RevLeft.

Originally posted by Comrade-Z+--> (Comrade-Z)I think we just need more of a sense of direction to emerge within society in general, something that will, by itself, give rise to greater class consciousness and movement.[/b]Indeed...


Originally posted by YKTMX
It seems to me that if your primary "enemy" is not capitalism but the "the state" - a supra-historical political form that seems to "pop up" every now and again to foil emancipatory projects - then it's obvious your class formation will be "mixed". You will attract many workers because of some of the class war rhetoric and the genral working class antipathy to the agents of the bourgeois state, but you'll also attract many middle class people who've inherited the strong "anti-authoritarian" streak in middle class political culture. It's impossible, I feel, to have your main enemy as the "state" and still maintain a serious class struggle outlook. Because surely anyone can be "anti-state" regardless of their class position? The state is the enemy sure. But equally the enemy is capitalism. And besides, what is wrong with having middle class people who oppose the oppressive nature of the state involved in your organisation? Simply convert them to being also anti-capitalist. Aren't they all proletariat anyway? As I said in above, the state is the ones who employ the cops, the ones who protect property, without the state the capitalists would not last long.

(It gets confusing when people talk about working class, middle class, proletariat and bourgeois without defining terms. Are you using a Marxist analysis? In which case the middle class and working class are simply different aspects of the proletariat? Or are you using a different analysis based on income and social standing?)


Originally posted by YKTMX
I also find the pre-occupations about gender somewhat ironic given the blatant, vitriolic misogyny of one of their main men, Proudon.The gender struggle is one part of the anarchist struggle against oppression. And sure Proudhon was a misogynist old bastard, but it doesn't take away from his economics. And I think that class-war anarchists would not even acknowledge much of what he said as relevent.


Originally posted by JC1
But why is it that anarchist groups cant attract workers ? Becuase the interests of workers and anarchism are historicaly contridictory. You know what? Fuck you. I'm guessing the entire reason you posted this article was as a troll, "oh look a bloke who doesn't like anarchism". Most of his points are a lot more general then simple about anarchism, they apply to Marxists and other leftists (as I said initially).
Why can't Marxist parties attract workers? (You know they don't.) Because the interests of workers and Marxism is a historically contradictory. Face it, workers don't want a Marxist state.

And let it also be said I disagree with what YKTMX said in relation to this matter.


Originally posted by black banner black gun
Thanks for posting the rest of that, since it makes more explicit what the initial part touched on: that while this article is specifically dealing with the "anarchist movement," it could just as easily be about any number (all, in fact) of other political ideologies and groupings on the left, something some of the members on here who are quick to try and make some sectarian jabs fail to notice...
To true, as I attempt to make clear through my above reply.


Originally posted by black banner black gun
Not that I've encountered. Anarchists are, after all, merely "organized stupity." But seriously, I'd say it has to do with what I mentioned above about the funding and the more recent introduction of punk music and primitivist bullshit to the anarchist mileu, something a lot of us are trying to purge. Bah.

(Oh and I love Black Dagger's first comment.)


Originally posted by black banner black gun
You don't have a trust fund you can be drawing from? Or parents?As an anarchist, I have to say I'm not middle class, my parents are poor, both were teachers and no, I don't have a trust fund to draw from. My income comes from the government as I'm a student.


El Infiltr(A)[email protected]
Interesting but long and with a confusing usage of "middle class". "The enemy is Middle Class"? Yeah sure...Agreed.


Lennie Jusche
Class isn't determined by the amount of money you have, it's determined by your relation to the means of production. Needless to say, the petty-bourgeoisie and bourgeoisie usually have alot more money than the proles.. but not always.. there are small shop owners in the U.S. that make much less money in a year than say, a coal miner in the U.S. who runs a machine and makes $100,000 or more.Did you read the article? The author doesn't use Marxian class analysis. In fact he doesn't seem to have any analysis.

bcbm
15th August 2006, 16:45
Bah.

Coming from both a punk rock and primmie background, I may be perhaps overstating the case... ;)


As an anarchist, I have to say I'm not middle class, my parents are poor, both were teachers and no, I don't have a trust fund to draw from. My income comes from the government as I'm a student.


Your government pays you to be a student? Fuck you man. :lol: I was kidding about the trust fund bit... its a common criticism of certain elements of the mileu.

violencia.Proletariat
15th August 2006, 17:48
We do not engage in reformist tatics, for example, and we do not attempt to hide our intentions in an [opportunistic] attempt to seem more "approachable" to everyday people?

Where exactly was I calling for reformist tactics? My criticism is that a lot of work the left does is more about activism then about class struggle.


No, there hasn't, but your analysis that the anarchist movement is primarly about puppies and trees is really naive.

My analysis is of the american situation. While I have never been to other countries, from what I've read about the movements ours is extremley backwards.


I find it intolerable that young people sit on the internet barking orders at people, yet do little to fuck all to head their own commands.

Because I'm not in the IWW distributing information and doing my best at organizing. :rolleyes:

How old do you think I am anyways? What makes you think I'm young? Why is that even relevant unless your trying to use it as a sign of weakness.

The Feral Underclass
15th August 2006, 22:33
Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2006, 03:49 PM

We do not engage in reformist tatics, for example, and we do not attempt to hide our intentions in an [opportunistic] attempt to seem more "approachable" to everyday people?

Where exactly was I calling for reformist tactics?
Back off sparky!

I wasn't saying that you support reformist tactics. I was trying to analyse the situation you described and gave you an opinion on why we are not so "popular" in times of reaction.

My opinion is that it may have something to do with our radicalism.


My criticism is that a lot of work the left does is more about activism then about class struggle.

Well, that's certainly one of your criticisms, but it wasn't the specific criticism I was addressing.

However, I think that activism is important, providing it's class struggle based, which is what a large section of the anarchist movement engage in or at the very least, attempt to engage in.



No, there hasn't, but your analysis that the anarchist movement is primarly about puppies and trees is really naive.

My analysis is of the american situation. While I have never been to other countries, from what I've read about the movements ours is extremley backwards.

Then what are NEFAC, RAAN, SCAF and NWAF



I find it intolerable that young people sit on the internet barking orders at people, yet do little to fuck all to head their own commands.

Because I'm not in the IWW distributing information and doing my best at organizing. :rolleyes:

I don't know? What are you doing?


How old do you think I am anyways? What makes you think I'm young? Why is that even relevant unless your trying to use it as a sign of weakness.

Your comments are indicative of someone who is young, or at leat new to the movement.

I'm not saying your ideas are wrong or weak, but I think they are perhaps a little naive and unfair.

I accept that more needs to be done, but to assert that the anarchist movement does nothing and should "get up and get out there" is completely unfair and evincive to a real analysis.

Comrade-Z
15th August 2006, 22:45
Originally posted by The Anarchist Tension+Aug 15 2006, 10:57 AM--> (The Anarchist Tension @ Aug 15 2006, 10:57 AM)
Comrade-[email protected] 15 2006, 06:31 AM
I reckon it's about time we had some "Proletarian ONLY" anarchist organizations
What would that achieve?

Segragating people from political activity based on class, serves absolutely no purpose to developing a class struggle movement. [/b]
It would achieve quite a lot! Middle class intellectuals would not be able to outmanouver and dominate the proletarian elements. And the proletariat would have to rely on itself for all of its operations. Isn't that what it will have to do after the revolution anyways? It's not like the middle class is going to be on our side during the revolution (you do realize that, don't you?)

Segregating class-struggle movements based on class makes all sorts of sense!!! Do you honestly want to be cooperating with your enemies? And the middle class are enemies of the proletariat.


Doesn't seem like the case on RevLeft.

Exactly! That's why I like it here. :wub:


And besides, what is wrong with having middle class people who oppose the oppressive nature of the state involved in your organisation?

Because they will inevitably sabotage the rest of your movement (you know, the parts about taking down the priviledged layers of society--including the middle class--and empowering the proletariat).


It gets confusing when people talk about working class, middle class, proletariat and bourgeois without defining terms. Are you using a Marxist analysis? In which case the middle class and working class are simply different aspects of the proletariat? Or are you using a different analysis based on income and social standing?)

I would define the middle-class as synonymous with the petty-bourgeoisie. Small capitalists. They can be either self-employed, small business owners, managers (who manage not just workers and machinery, but the capitalists' capital, embodied in those workers and machinery), or professionals wealthy enough to own small amounts of capital investments (stocks, mutual funds, etc.)

violencia.Proletariat
16th August 2006, 00:05
Then what are NEFAC, RAAN, SCAF and NWAF

If I'm not mistaken NEFAC is most active in Canada. RAAN is irrelevant to the movement and I have never heard anything about the last two other than they exist on paper. I stay pretty up to date on the news and never hear anything about the latter two. I wasn't implying there is no positive direction in the American movement, I was saying that its very small and is the part that needs to grow. We need to "get out there" in the sense that we must break through all that crap that post left anarchy has laid.


However, I think that activism is important

I really don't see how "protest culture" is helpful at all. It's one thing to be an agitator in your community, it's another to spend all your time doing "activism." How the guy who wrote the article described a lot of activists is spot on in my opinion. They put activism in place of social relationships. It's their way of making friends and what they do instead of going to the movies or going to a club.

The Feral Underclass
16th August 2006, 00:14
Originally posted by Comrade-Z+Aug 15 2006, 08:46 PM--> (Comrade-Z @ Aug 15 2006, 08:46 PM)
Originally posted by The Anarchist [email protected] 15 2006, 10:57 AM

Comrade-[email protected] 15 2006, 06:31 AM
I reckon it's about time we had some "Proletarian ONLY" anarchist organizations
What would that achieve?

Segragating people from political activity based on class, serves absolutely no purpose to developing a class struggle movement.
It would achieve quite a lot! Middle class intellectuals would not be able to outmanouver and dominate the proletarian elements. [/b]
Actually, what you're suggesting is not excluding middle class intellectuals but middle class people generally.

Excluding middle class people from opposing capitalism and the state in a political movement is not a safeguard against middle class intellectual domination or prejudice.

Political movements and different classes must learn to work together. Not create a culture of exclusion based on class, which is essentially what you create by claiming you will not include middle class people into your organisations.

Any class struggle organisation must ensure that middle class prejudice and intellectualism is challenged and that there are mechanisms in place to get rid of it if it happens.


And the proletariat would have to rely on itself for all of its operations. Isn't that what it will have to do after the revolution anyways?

You're implying that working class people can't also be intellectuals and work within non-class specific organisations to ensure that middle class prejudice dominates the organisation.

I think working class people are capable enough to ensure their ideological protection.


It's not like the middle class is going to be on our side during the revolution (you do realize that, don't you?)

Well, no I don't "realise" it because I absolutely reject that assertion.

There is no evidence to suggest that the middle class in their totality will side with counter-revolutionaries during the revolution.

In fact, it's pointedly absurd. Marx, Lenin and Trotsky were all from the middle classes. There are many middle class people within the movement whose commitment to working class liberation is absolute.


Segregating class-struggle movements based on class makes all sorts of sense!!!

Can you explain this "sense".


Do you honestly want to be cooperating with your enemies?

Anyone who wants to destroy capitalism and the state, who believes that the working class are the only class capable of creating a communist society and subject themselves to non-hierarchical and democratic class struggle is a comrade of mine. Regardless of class.


And the middle class are enemies of the proletariat.

Well, I have a middle class job. Although my upbringing was decidedly working class, I have a distinctive middle class job. There are students, teachers and PhD graduates in our organisation who spend their whole lives dedicated to working class struggle.

Are we your enemy?

The Feral Underclass
16th August 2006, 00:28
Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2006, 10:06 PM

Then what are NEFAC, RAAN, SCAF and NWAF

If I'm not mistaken NEFAC is most active in Canada.
They also operate in New York and Boston. There is also Workers Solidarity Alliance and CAF in Texas.


RAAN is irrelevant to the movement

Sectarian bullshit!

Any group of people who are active in class struggle is not irrelevant, regardless of how effective they are.


have never heard anything about the last two other than they exist on paper.

If that is the case, have you engaged in debate with their collectives? Attended meetings? Approached them to discuss issues with them?


I wasn't implying there is no positive direction in the American movement, I was saying that its very small and is the part that needs to grow.

Which I'm sure the American class struggle anarchist movement is aware of.


We need to "get out there" in the sense that we must break through all that crap that post left anarchy has laid.

Then get out there!



However, I think that activism is important

I really don't see how "protest culture" is helpful at all.

I don't see how it's unhelpful?

Although I wasn't necessarily talking about summit-hoping. Activism is not specific to one particular form of protest, it takes many forms; including class struggle.


How the guy who wrote the article described a lot of activists is spot on in my opinion. They put activism in place of social relationships.

What do you mean, social relationships?


It's their way of making friends and what they do instead of going to the movies or going to a club.

You're still yet to tell me what it is you do to "get out there"?

YKTMX
16th August 2006, 00:30
It's always very odd when people bring up Proudhon as a sexist, as if Karl Marx was a shining beacon of open-mindedness (racist and anti-semite).

This is nonsense. When we say Proudhon's misogny, we don't just mean the fact that the "disliked women", but his patriarchy was one of his main political themes:


The narrow horizons of French workers in small workshops moulded the attitude of many of them towards women. The ideas that dominated here were those of Pierre Joseph Proudhon (1809-1875), the father of French anarchism, which was an ideology par excellence of the radical petty bourgeoisie. His views on women, which he expounded in great detail, were reactionary. He pointed to the physical smallness of woman and her supposed passivity in the sexual act as proof of her weaker nature; to her large hips, pelvis, and breasts as proof of her sole function as child-bearer; and to the relative smallness of the female brain (an undeniable, though irrelevant, fact) as proof of her intellectual inferiority. Using a curious system of numerical values which he assigned to both sexes, he suggested that man’s relation to woman was physically 3:2 and that this ratio must also prevail in initiative, educability, potential, and so forth: man was master and woman must obey.

“Genius,” he proclaimed, “is virility of spirit and its accompanying powers of abstraction, generalisation, creation, and conception; the child, the eunuch, and the woman lack these gifts in equal measure.”

According to Proudhon, woman has been chosen by nature merely as an instrument of reproduction; that is, her only use to society is to function as a bearer of children and in herself she does not otherwise have a reason for being. To man, she costs more than he earns and her existence, therefore, is sustained by the perpetual sacrifice he makes.

Only two careers were open to woman, said Proudhon: “housewife or harlot”. “... every woman who dreams of emancipation has lost, ipso facto, the health of her soul, the lucidity of her intellect, the virginity of her heart.” To guard against such corruption, Proudhon recommended that grounds for wife-killing include “adultery, impudence, treason, drunkenness or debauchery, wastefulness or theft, and persistent insubordination.” Why not? Woman was only a “pretty animal”. To listen to the “literary eunuchs” who argued for woman s equality was reprehensible: “... its inevitable consequences are free love, condemnation of marriage, condemnation of womanhood, jealousy and secret hatred of men, and, to crown the system, inextinguishable lechery: such, invariably, is the philosophy of the emancipated woman.” [4]

Click (http://www.marxists.de/gender/cliff/03-commune.htm)


There's a difference between that at the kind of casual racist or questionnable language of Marx. However, he also said:

"Workers in the white skin can never be free so long as workers in the Black skin are branded."


Probably because it's fun...

Well, that's your problem isn't it?

Not many serious working class revolutionaries want to go around beating up other socialists "'cos it's fun 'n' that".

Middle class wankers might have the time for it, most workers don't.

The Feral Underclass
16th August 2006, 00:44
Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2006, 10:31 PM

It's always very odd when people bring up Proudhon as a sexist, as if Karl Marx was a shining beacon of open-mindedness (racist and anti-semite).

This is nonsense. When we say Proudhon's misogny, we don't just mean the fact that the "disliked women", but his patriarchy was one of his main political themes.
Regardless, it's an irrelevant political attack to make on anarchism. Proudhon or his ideas have absolutely nothing to do with the modern anarchist movement post 1871. Including his anarchism.


Not many serious working class revolutionaries want to go around beating up other socialists "'cos it's fun 'n' that".

:lol:

You're really serious aren't you...


Middle class wankers might have the time for it, most workers don't.

Eventually they will.

YKTMX
16th August 2006, 00:51
Proudhon or his ideas have absolutely nothing to do with the modern anarchist movement post 1871. Including his anarchism.

On the contrary, petty-bourgeois "radicalism" still dominate.


You're really serious aren't you...

I don't know how to respond to this.

I'm extremely serious at some moments and about some things and I'm not serious at other moments.

Some things deserve to be taken seriously, and some dont - I judge it on that basis.

You're not one of those "constantly happy clappy" types are you?


Eventually they will.

Nah, they won't.

The Feral Underclass
16th August 2006, 01:47
Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2006, 10:52 PM

Proudhon or his ideas have absolutely nothing to do with the modern anarchist movement post 1871. Including his anarchism.

On the contrary, petty-bourgeois "radicalism" still dominate.
It's incredible that after so many years you can still not know what you're talking about. Repeating ruling class opinions has always been your forte.

It's impressive.


You're not one of those "constantly happy clappy" types are you?

I am when I talk to you...



Eventually they will.

Nah, they won't.

That's the spirit! Spoken like a true Leninist. I suppose we won't be able to do very much once you lot have taken control.

violencia.Proletariat
16th August 2006, 02:04
Originally posted by The Anarchist [email protected] 15 2006, 05:29 PM



They also operate in New York and Boston. There is also Workers Solidarity Alliance and CAF in Texas.

I know they have groups in those places but that doesnt mean they are very active. I'm still trying to figure out if WSA is even defunct. These groups don't ever make their presence known. I think thats because many of them are no longer very active.


Any group of people who are active in class struggle is not irrelevant, regardless of how effective they are.

Active in what class struggle? The organization itself is mainly just an anti-leninist mouthpiece. Not to mention the fact that the application of autonomism in that group applied on a large scale would allow for the easy breakup of the organization.


have you engaged in debate with their collectives? Attended meetings? Approached them to discuss issues with them?

I don't live there, how exactly do you propose I do that? The point I'm trying to make is that I keep myself up to date. I don't ever hear from these groups so they either aren't covering themselves or their action is very localized. If you have more information on them I'd gladly see it.


social relationships?

I gave the example that they don't head down to the bar or go to the movies, instead they put "activism" in that place.


You're still yet to tell me what it is you do to "get out there"?

I told you, I distribute information for my organizations and am involved in growing those groups.

What do you do TAT? What is it that your more active in? Setting up squats?

YKTMX
16th August 2006, 02:11
It's incredible that after so many years you can still not know what you're talking about. Repeating ruling class opinions has always been your forte.

Thanks.


I am when I talk to you...

It's really, really annoying.


Spoken like a true Leninist. I suppose we won't be able to do very much once you lot have taken control.

When I'm in control, I'll make you minister for liquidating the petty bourgeois anarchists, TAT.

And you'll fucking love it.

The Feral Underclass
16th August 2006, 03:06
Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2006, 12:05 AM

You're still yet to tell me what it is you do to "get out there"?

I told you, I distribute information for my organizations and am involved in growing those groups.
Good start althought I'm sorry to say, I do not think you do enough to justify your unending and scathing criticisms.

If you want to criticise the movement, you must do so from the inside, not from the inside on internet message boards,

Why not try emailing these groups you want to criticise or articulate your opinions into an essay or pamphlet, with constructure suggestions; publicise it at indymedia and email it to groups asking to start a debate.

Why not travel (hitchhike if you cant afford it) to some places and engage with anarchists on these issues. Sitting on the internet and whining about how shit the anarchist movement is while doing nothing is bullshit.


What do you do TAT? What is it that your more active in? Setting up squats?

I am involved in anti-casualisation work, Defy-ID, Sheffield Welfare Action Network who are fighting against the cuts in disability benefit. I was involved in the community project in the local area where the squat was to stop the council knocking peoples houses down. I'm also involved in the fight against First Mainline and the bus workers struggle and I write for Organise occasionally. I also do occasional anti-fascist stuff and closed affinity group stuff.

But yes, I'm also involved in setting up squats.

Comrade-Z
16th August 2006, 07:17
Actually, what you're suggesting is not excluding middle class intellectuals but middle class people generally.

Correct. I should have been clearer. In a proletarian ONLY organization, middle class individuals and their middle class interests would not encroach on the decisions of the group. At least, to as great of an extent.


Excluding middle class people from opposing capitalism and the state in a political movement is not a safeguard against middle class intellectual domination or prejudice.

True, but it helps. And notice that I'm not calling for the binding and gagging of middle class intellectuals. They can work for and advocate anti-capitalism and anti-statism all they want. Just not within proletarian movements.


Political movements and different classes must learn to work together.

Yeah, political movements can work together, depending on the specific political movements (obviously some movements will not fit with others, an obvious example being Nazism and communism.) However, different classes working together? Class collaboration?

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e326/Zeiter/lil-jon-whhhat.jpg

Unless you consider the interests of the proletariat and middle class to be harmonious. I don't. For reasons, read this thread here (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=54398&st=0&)


Not create a culture of exclusion based on class

That's exactly what I would like to create! Just imagine if capitalists and petty-bourgeois types felt snubbed and left out during everyday life. Just imagine how that would make the proletariat feel, to be the "in crowd" for once, to be the rightful rulers of society.


You're implying that working class people can't also be intellectuals and work within non-class specific organisations to ensure that middle class prejudice dominates the organisation.

No, that's what I'm saying--proletarian people can be intellectuals. They don't need middle-class types. Middle-class types only hold the movement back with the influence of their contradictory middle-class interests.


I think working class people are capable enough to ensure their ideological protection.

I'm sure proletarians are capable enough to "ensure their ideological protection," but why deal with middle-class garbage when it's not needed in the movement and usually detrimental? You yourself admitted that only the proletariat is capable of advancing revolution. If you are fine with middle-class people being in the movement, why not just let capitalists in as well? Both have contradictory interests to the proletariat.


Well, no I don't "realise" it because I absolutely reject that assertion.

There is no evidence to suggest that the middle class in their totality will side with counter-revolutionaries during the revolution.

In fact, it's pointedly absurd. Marx, Lenin and Trotsky were all from the middle classes.

And let's see, which of these remained loyal to the proletariat? So far your batting average is .333

Not looking good.


There are many middle class people within the movement whose commitment to working class liberation is absolute.

How do you know this? Because that's what they claim about themselves? But listen, why is it in the self-interest of a middle-class type to support proletarian revolution full-throttle, all the way through, without maneuvering for some priviledge of his own along the way? Where are the middle-class interests in a revolution to put the proletariat in power?


Can you explain this "sense".

It is common sense not to rely on individuals whose class interests are not very harmonious with yours. "Relying on them" means letting them take up functional roles in your organizations. They can still contribute ideas and even helpful action from the outside.


Anyone who wants to destroy capitalism and the state, who believes that the working class are the only class capable of creating a communist society and subject themselves to non-hierarchical and democratic class struggle is a comrade of mine. Regardless of class.

So you will be willing to allow Warren Buffett to join AF if he claims to hold all of these views?


Well, I have a middle class job. Although my upbringing was decidedly working class, I have a distinctive middle class job. There are students, teachers and PhD graduates in our organisation who spend their whole lives dedicated to working class struggle.

Are we your enemy?

If you have a Ph.D., that doesn't mean you are necessarily middle-class. Do you work for someone else? Do you own any stock? Any huge retirement accounts with interest rates above inflation? Do you make below $80,000 per year? If yes, no, no, and no, then I'd consider you proletarian.

But if not, then I wouldn't expect you to be very reliable or loyal to proletarian emancipation if a revolution were to actually break out. I would expect such middle-class types to try to hold back the radicalism of the movement and claim a priviledged position in the movement (and in the post-revolutionary society) for themselves. Proletarians would start doing things their own way, and they wouldn't be listening to you any longer (because what need would there be to do that?), and you'd get upset that they weren't creating the exact type of revolution that you deem correct, and you'd denounce the proletarians as counter-revolutionaries and agitate for their suppression.

bcbm
16th August 2006, 16:47
Originally posted by Comrade-[email protected] 15 2006, 10:18 PM
Correct. I should have been clearer. In a proletarian ONLY organization, middle class individuals and their middle class interests would not encroach on the decisions of the group. At least, to as great of an extent.
So you would be for the exclusion of coal-miners, factory workers and many other "middle-class" people? "Middle-class" is a social class, proletarian is an economic one with many proletarians being, in fact, middle-class!

The Feral Underclass
16th August 2006, 17:14
Originally posted by Comrade-[email protected] 16 2006, 05:18 AM
If you have a Ph.D., that doesn't mean you are necessarily middle-class. Do you work for someone else? Do you own any stock? Any huge retirement accounts with interest rates above inflation? Do you make below $80,000 per year? If yes, no, no, and no, then I'd consider you proletarian
So you would not consider those in professions to be "middle class" then. I.e. teachers, doctors, filmmakers, writers or academics?

You are defining those in the middle classes as managers, small business owners or people who either have hire and fire powers or benefit directly from the functions of capitalism? In that instance, I would agre with you.

Also, you cannot define class based on how much you earn a year. A factory workers could in principle earn $80,000 a year, but still be an exploited member of society. Class is not defined on how much you earn, but on what your relationship to the means of production is.

Comrade-Z
16th August 2006, 22:12
So you would be for the exclusion of coal-miners, factory workers and many other "middle-class" people?

No, those are all proletarians.


"Middle-class" is a social class, proletarian is an economic one with many proletarians being, in fact, middle-class!

Wait, what? I don't understand. How does one define a "social class," and why would this definition make any sense in light of the definition of class relating to the means of production? I always thought that they are synonymous. If middle-class people can be proletarians, then yeah, of course, we'll allow those middle-class proletarians into our proletarian ONLY organizations.


A factory workers could in principle earn $80,000 a year, but still be an exploited member of society.

Well, a factory worker earning $80,000 per year and only supporting himself could buy sizable amounts of stocks, could he not? That would then make him middle-class, or petty-bourgeois, or small capitalist (I'm treating all three labels as synonymous).

bcbm
17th August 2006, 00:13
No, those are all proletarians.

They're also middle-class.


Wait, what? I don't understand. How does one define a "social class," and why would this definition make any sense in light of the definition of class relating to the means of production?

The term "middle-class" is usually based on the amount of money one makes and is used by governments and social analysts. Many proletarians are middle-class and some petit-bourgeois could even be lower class, by those standards. Its best not to mix the two sets of terms, or it can be very confusing. I believe petit-bourgeois is what you're speaking about.


Well, a factory worker earning $80,000 per year and only supporting himself could buy sizable amounts of stocks, could he not?

Sure, he "could." How does owning stock change one's class status though? Many jobs (even proletarian ones) include stock options, or force one to have stock in the company (so-called "employee owned" companies).


That would then make him middle-class, or petty-bourgeois, or small capitalist (I'm treating all three labels as synonymous).

But they aren't. :(

The Grinch
17th August 2006, 02:00
Shortly after I packed it in. one of Leeds Class War was accused in print of being an Ml5 agent (not that he could have put up a fIat pack if he was paid to). By coincidence this bloke, although he is a social inadequate, was probably the most active anarchist I've ever come across. At the time I thought that if he was an Ml5 agent, we could do with more of them. In reality, he was caught in the crossfire of a pathetic squabble between Searchlight (the anti-fascist journal that goes out of its way to discredit anarchists) and Larry O'Hara an "investigative journalist".

Right, the person is question is undoubtably a Searchlight asset.

Which calls the author's judgement into question.

On top of that, Openly Classist

1. Deny that the ruling class even exists.

2. Had a self confessed army intelligence officer as one of their main activists.

3. Link to the dodgy as fuck Scottish Separatist Group on their website.

So I think I can be forgiven for not taking anything Openly Classist supporters might have to say awfully seriously.

Xiao Banfa
17th August 2006, 03:08
This guy hits the nail right on the head. The anarchist organizations i've been involved are almost exactly the same. A rag-tag collection of manarchist wannabe charasmatics, wired feminazis, pre-programmed ALF types and identity politickers.

They get excited, start a group, produce a paper for a year at best, rush around and fold.

There's always a couple of blokes (despite the claim to lead the way in "smashing the patriachy") who dominate the whole thing.
They never get involved in unions because it's reformism. Heaven forbid a confident, fighting union be considered a vehicle for class conciousness.

After about 5 years of wasting my time with this counter-cultural clique I woke up and rubbed my eyes, seeing that it was these evil leninists who were involving themselves in workers' struggles and organising themselves properly.

I began to re-examine the history of the socialist movement with an open mind instead of swallowing bourgeois lies that suited my world view.

I realised that where today's class struggle is at it's sharpest there are always democratic and disciplined marxist-leninists taking the blows and striking some for the proletariat.

The Grinch
17th August 2006, 03:18
Originally posted by Tino [email protected] 17 2006, 12:09 AM
I realised that where today's class struggle is at it's sharpest there are always democratic and disciplined marxist-leninists taking the blows and striking some for the proletariat.
Um, where, specifically? I'll admit freely I get a bit lost when talking about the specifics outside the UK.

But that isn't really the general impression I've got, either in terms of activity, or in terms of the class composition of the Leninist parties. Certainly, in terms of direct action against the fascists in the 80's and 90's, the Leninists were noticable by their absence...

Xiao Banfa
17th August 2006, 03:36
Um, where, specifically? I'll admit freely I get a bit lost when talking about the specifics outside the UK.

Nepal, the Phillipines, India, Colombia and there are armed communist parties in many other countries.

These disciplined bodies of fighters are challenging the power of the state in their respective countries. It's a lot more successfull than airy-fairy networks and federations. :lol:

Mujer Libre
17th August 2006, 04:36
Originally posted by Tino
This guy hits the nail right on the head. The anarchist organizations i've been involved are almost exactly the same. A rag-tag collection of manarchist wannabe charasmatics, wired feminazis, pre-programmed ALF types and identity politickers.
FEMINAZIS? Wow, it's really fucked that you'd appropriate an insult that ANTI-FEMINISTS use constantly against feminists.
Also, the majority of anarchists that I know are women. Where does that leave your theory?


They get excited, start a group, produce a paper for a year at best, rush around and fold.
Mmm, single anecdotes. Fantastic. I'm involved in an anarchist group (running an infoshop) that's been around for ten years. Yeah, we're going through a slow, hard patch at the moment but things are looking up in the near future. There's another that's been around for 100.


There's always a couple of blokes (despite the claim to lead the way in "smashing the patriachy") who dominate the whole thing.
Again, this is in no way innate to anarchism. I know plenty of loudmouth blokes from other leftist groups who are just as loud and obnoxious- especially when you give them megaphones.


They never get involved in unions because it's reformism. Heaven forbid a confident, fighting union be considered a vehicle for class conciousness.
Completely false...


I began to re-examine the history of the socialist movement with an open mind instead of swallowing bourgeois lies that suited my world view.
Anarchism is the result of a bourgeois lie? Nobody told me! :o

PRC-UTE
17th August 2006, 07:09
That's a great article. I love it. I think that much of it could apply to the left generally, not just anarchism, such as-


You can take the middle class out of the suburbs but you can't take the suburbs out of the middle class!

Amen :D The anarchist Larry Gambone wrote a pamphlet 'middle class is the enemy' about how the middle class have retarded the left and class struggle anarchist movement. They should never be allowed into any workers movement and should always be treated as targets.

The underlying issue isn't your politics, whether you're a 'lennie' or anarchist, but whether you're for workers power or not.


I've often seen less articulate working-class people ridiculed and put in their place because they didn't have the confidence, or the experience, to speak as clearly as the middle-class leadership.

This piece actually seems a bit unfairly focused on anarchists, because of the author's experiences. But I've knownTrots of the CWI to ridicule people for their working class accents as well.



As an Illustration of the way ideology has been used to serve the interests of the middle class, let's look at one of their absolute truths: in all anarchist publications, the point is made that our great enemy is the 'ruling class'. This ruling class is separate from the middle class.

Whoever worked that theory out obviously didn't: go to our schools; sign on at our dole offices; go to work at our workplaces; watch the shit we watch on telly; get treated like cattle at football matches; rent a shit house; go to a trade union meeting; get hassled by the police, etc. Anyone who did would know that it is the middle class, in all its guises which is our most obvious and direct enemy.


They have no appreciation of what it's like to go to bed hungry and cold, with holes in the front of their shoes as a kid. They don't grow up seeing their parents working themselves into an early grave. They've never had to live off bread and jam for days on end. They don't have anything material to worry about except what they invent to make their pathetic lives more interesting - and middle class political activity is part of that. Political theory is an interesting hobby to them. Their packaged ideology is their way of trying to bamboozle us into either following their leadership, or apathy, which has the same end result.

:wub:


I've rejected anarchism now. It's based in an ideology that actually prevents it achieving what it supposedly aspires to.


Notice he doesn't explain how.

He described how anarchism creates a seperate culture and communication that seperates itself (and the working class ppl it attracts to its ranks) from working class community. Go into a working class estate and use anarchist rhetoric, see how ppl look at you.

Floyce White
17th August 2006, 12:32
I like the article.

Comrade Morgan must be about five years younger than I am. I haven't worn canvas sneakers in 20 years, so I forgot that your big toenail wears a hole in them.

I'm sorry that the comrade didn't really talk to his father about politics until he was grown up.

I didn't eat bread-and-jam sandwiches. Americans eat a lot of bananas, so we always had Miracle Whip.

If you didn't grow up this way, I don't expect you to get the article. But you'll dump your "critique" on the rest of us anyway (ironic huh?).

bcbm
17th August 2006, 18:02
Originally posted by Tino [email protected] 16 2006, 06:09 PM
After about 5 years of wasting my time with this counter-cultural clique I woke up and rubbed my eyes, seeing that it was these evil leninists who were involving themselves in workers' struggles and organising themselves properly.
I don't know where you're from, but here the "Leninists" (or whatever they decide to call themselves on a given day) are just as petty and ineffective as the anarchists or, in some cases, worse since they tend to destroy every group they join (and try to take over). Don't get me started on the "mangers-in-training" in our local ISO. Once again, you've missed the major point the article is trying to make, that is that the entire class struggle is fucked right now because of the kind of bullshit floating around the entire left. Most of our respective "movements" have lost their class base, and this is something we all need to rectify, and perhaps even work together on (God forbid!!), not have petty slag-fests. :rolleyes:


Go into a working class estate and use anarchist rhetoric, see how ppl look at you.

They have wide open ears for communist rhetoric? Maybe its a bit different in Europe. Either way, I can't see how "We'd be better off without the bosses and the politicians!" would be looked at badly. I've heard as much from people with no political involvement!

The Feral Underclass
17th August 2006, 22:57
Originally posted by Comrade-[email protected] 16 2006, 08:13 PM
Well, a factory worker earning $80,000 per year and only supporting himself could buy sizable amounts of stocks, could he not?
So you judge someone middle class based on their potential to buy stocks and shares...?

That makes no [objective] sense. It's prejudicial, but has no connection to a materialist analysis of class?

The Feral Underclass
17th August 2006, 23:01
Originally posted by Tino [email protected] 17 2006, 01:09 AM
This guy hits the nail right on the head. The anarchist organizations i've been involved are almost exactly the same. A rag-tag collection of manarchist wannabe charasmatics, wired feminazis, pre-programmed ALF types and identity politickers
Can you explain what relevance this has to anything? Your experience with anarchism or with anarchists is not a definitive analsyis of the anarchist movement.


They get excited, start a group, produce a paper for a year at best, rush around and fold.

That happens with many groups. It has nothing to do with anarchism or being an anarchist.


I realised that where today's class struggle is at it's sharpest there are always democratic and disciplined marxist-leninists taking the blows and striking some for the proletariat.

Where?


Nepal, the Phillipines, India, Colombia and there are armed communist parties in many other countries.

Guerilla campaigns is not class struggle.

The Feral Underclass
17th August 2006, 23:10
Originally posted by PRC-[email protected] 17 2006, 05:10 AM
That's a great article. I love it.
Did it make you moist?


He described how anarchism creates a seperate culture and communication that seperates itself (and the working class ppl it attracts to its ranks) from working class community.

You do understand that this seperate culture lark is one aspect of anarchism? Normally called "post-left anarchism" and has nothing to do with class struggle anarchism.


Go into a working class estate and use anarchist rhetoric, see how ppl look at you.

You have experience?

Obviously you think anarchists go into working class estates and start shouting anarchist rhetoric. Ok, I'll let you believe that; but out of interest, what is your alternative?

PRC-UTE
18th August 2006, 10:06
Originally posted by The Anarchist Tension+Aug 17 2006, 08:11 PM--> (The Anarchist Tension @ Aug 17 2006, 08:11 PM)
PRC-[email protected] 17 2006, 05:10 AM
That's a great article. I love it.
Did it make you moist?

[/b]
That is so witty. :)



Go into a working class estate and use anarchist rhetoric, see how ppl look at you.

You have experience?

Obviously you think anarchists go into working class estates and start shouting anarchist rhetoric. Ok, I'll let you believe that; but out of interest, what is your alternative?

Yeah, I'm not sure if you're being deliberately daft here or not, but what I meant was if they started talking to working class people generally and not just each other, they'd hear how ridiculous they sound. Or at least other people would :lol:

I don't agree with all he says, but the general idea, that today anarchists (and imo, much of the left) are not a working class movement but just social clubs who try to outdo each other in rhetoric is what I've seen as well.

bcbm
18th August 2006, 13:10
Yeah, I'm not sure if you're being deliberately daft here or not, but what I meant was if they started talking to working class people generally and not just each other, they'd hear how ridiculous they sound. Or at least other people would :lol:


I can't see how "We'd be better off without the bosses and the politicians!" would be looked at badly.



I don't agree with all he says, but the general idea, that today anarchists (and imo, much of the left) are not a working class movement but just social clubs who try to outdo each other in rhetoric is what I've seen as well.

God, finally.

The Feral Underclass
18th August 2006, 14:13
Originally posted by PRC-UTE+Aug 18 2006, 08:07 AM--> (PRC-UTE @ Aug 18 2006, 08:07 AM)
Originally posted by The Anarchist [email protected] 17 2006, 08:11 PM

PRC-[email protected] 17 2006, 05:10 AM
That's a great article. I love it.
Did it make you moist?


That is so witty. :) [/b]
Awww thanks :wub:


Yeah, I'm not sure if you're being deliberately daft here or not, but what I meant was if they started talking to working class people generally and not just each other, they'd hear how ridiculous they sound. Or at least other people would :lol:

No, I wasn't being daft, you just weren't clear.

Anyway, I can fully see how people would consider the idea of destroying exploitation and oppression and creating an equitable society based on mutual co-operation would find that daft, but I don't think one should stop saying that is what you think, just because someone might think you're daft.

I'm surprised that you think it's daft, what being a "communist" and all...


I don't agree with all he says, but the general idea, that today anarchists (and imo, much of the left) are not a working class movement but just social clubs who try to outdo each other in rhetoric is what I've seen as well.

Out do each other in rhetoric? What are you talking about?

Any movement that advocates the destruction of capitalism by the working class through a process of class struggle is a "working class movement."

If you mean that the demographics of these organisations are distinctly lacking in working class people then perhaps you're right, but most movements are weak and we are living in a period of reaction.

Historically, in periods of reaction, it is quite normal for this to be state of affairs.

SPK
19th August 2006, 07:20
I live in the u.s., and my experiences with anarchist / anti-authoritarian movements are limited to this country. They've also been limited to, at most, the past four years or so. (Not being British, I can't tell exactly when the time frame of Terry Morgan's essay terminates: the mid-nineties?)

The anarchist / anti-authoritarian movements in the u.s. -- despite their many differences -- do adhere, I think, to a certain core set of ideas. These apply whether they are green anarchists, primitivists, anarchocommunists, lifestylists, you name it. Moreover, since the movement against capitalist globalization came to prominence in the late nineties, with Seattle, these ideas have achieved a degree of dominance or hegemony in the broader progressive movements. People who don't identify as anarchist / anti-authoritarian have taken up these ideas, and they have become, for many, a form of "common sense".

These basic ideas include:
- "We should build community"
- "We should use consensus"
- "We should do our work in small affinity groups"
- "We should practice security culture"
- "We should use direct action"
- "We should build alternative institutions" (Food Not Bombs, squats, independent media, bike shares, and so on)
- "We should challenge the root causes of an oppression" (which are almost always viewed as a set of deformed ideas that have implanted themselves in someone's head)
- Etcetera...

I've been doing political work off and on for many years, and I think that these core ideas are very specific and unique to the current historical period. From what I've seen, they did not ever have, prior to the late nineties, the presence or exposure that they have today. I think that many of these ideas are very problematic and outmoded.

So, on to my question. Many of the responses to Morgan's essay have focused on the question of the class character of the anarchist movements. Specifically, is it too middle-class and should it be exclusively working-class, with much discussion of how to define the class boundaries of the proletariat and the petty bourgeoisie. (I'm not going to say anything about that, at least not in this thread.) Other responses have noted that different ideological tendencies, i.e. Marxism-Leninism, appear to have problems similar to those of the anarchist movements.

What I have found striking about this thread is that there doesn’t seem to be a lot of discussion about the actual political and ideological line of the different forms of anarchism. These movements, like any other movement, have a particular perspective and worldview. I think it is reasonable to try and understand the relation between the anarchist movements’ problems – as outlined by Morgan or other people on this thread – and the specific set of ideas which define anarchism. For example, the idea that a political movement should “build community”. Does that seem to cause problems? Or the idea that we should “use consensus”. Does that cause problems? Or the idea that we should “practice security culture”. Does that cause problems?

These are necessary questions to ask, if we think that our particular ideologies – whether Marxism, anarchism, Leninism, or anything else – have any meaning or impact in the real world. If these different political lines end up causing the same, identical set of contradictions and problems in a movement, then exactly what are we arguing about when different representatives of these lines throw rocks at one another on RL? These perspectives may not be as different as we think. So we have to take our ideas, and their concrete, material impacts in the real world (however minimal those impacts may appear to be sometimes), seriously.

The overall thrust of the thread seemed to be that with a different class composition, the anarchist movements would be “better”. No one, to my mind, really challenged the underlying political and ideological line of differing anarchisms. So it seems that if we unplug one group of people, the petty-bourgeoisie, from the movement and plug in a fresh group of people, the working class, then everything will be great. The underlying structure and ideas of the movement doesn’t change – instead we just find the right people who can effectively work within its existing parameters. Presto!

This is not a good approach.