The truth about cuba

[Proletar]

I would really like some true information about cuba and if it is a democracy and how their democracy works. If heard so many diffrent things.

Anyone who have some good homepages or something?

[Karl Marx's Camel]

I would really like some true information about cuba and if it is a democracy and how their democracy works.

That's a little "hard to get".

I suggest when you find someone who has lived there/has family in Cuba/has a Cuban wife or husband/is an experienced Cuba-traveler/has spent a great deal of time in Cuba, that you ask these people.

[Noah]

I tend to get confused with this too, what happens is you get people saying it's a hellhole dictatorship and others saying its a paradise democracy, you get lost because of the massive opinions/'proof'.

Then you get documentaries showing how people will die for the revolution meanwhile others who want to get out because they don't like the system.

[Proletar]

thanks people :)

[Revolucion Compadre]

Hello Proletar, im a Cuban born there lived there most of my life. The truth is there is no democracy in Cuba, because Fidel is the only power there. I remember once it try to say what i felt, and i knew the consequences, so i try to say what i feel vaguely and i was warned. Since then i have had to go away from my country, but i have hopes that one day it will change for the better of my Cuban people.

[Revolucion Compadre]

Lennie Jusche, as a Cuban i feel very proud to see us as 100% literacy rate, but i know this is not true since i come from Villa Clara province and some people are still illiterate. My mother worked in El Banco Popular de Ahorro, the bank deal with many farmers, and many some were illiterate. All i see in this page is statistics, why don't you show the real situation of the people? Show pictures show videos, this says nothing of the real situation my friend.

And you say you lived and worked in Cuba? De donde tu eres ? Donde trabajastes en Cuba? En un hotel turistico? Porque si estuvistes en Cuba entonces tienes que ver la situacion que esta viviendo la gente, o eres ciego?

[Karl Marx's Camel]

I tend to get confused with this too, what happens is you get people saying it's a hellhole dictatorship and others saying its a paradise democracy

The image I have gathered from Cuba is that it is neither a "hellhole dictatorship", nor "paradise democracy".

[Revolucion Compadre]

NWOG, hell in earth would probably be like North Korea were people starve to death and at the same time no political freedom.

Cuba, you not starve to death but you do not have political freedom of expression, you understand men? Plus, you do not starve to death in Cuba but you can not get what you want to eat either.

Hey you know what, i found a website with pictures that make me almost cry men, because it is exactly what i llived there.

Here is store for Cubans, http://www.therealcuba.com/GraciasFidel1.JPG

Here is store for Cubans that can have US dollars, http://www.therealcuba.com/Mito10.jpg

Oh my god, this is exactly like my refrigirator in Cuba men, http://www.therealcuba.com/CubanFridge.jpg

My people suffer, i just want people to understand the truth i lived , those pictures do not lie men, they speak for themselves. I just want my people to get out of the poverty, but most of all to not be denied the freedom every man desires.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

Of course, I understand you.

But you see, in Florida, there are a lot of people who say they fight for "Cuba's freedom", and yet they shoot civilians and explode Cuban civilian airplanes (like Cubana Flight 455). They attack hotels, shopping malls and so on, so that Cuba's economy will be destroyed, so people will live in worse they are now (apparently so that people will revolt). They think killing Cuban children can be justified. How is launching attacks on hotels in Cuba going to help the Cuban people? It will only worsen the situation.

Like it or not, these groups, CANF, Alpha 66, Omega 7, CORU, F-4 commandos, Brothers to the Rescue and so on, they all are working for the U.S. government. The U.S. is not interested in Cuban freedom, or south american freedom for that matter. History has proven this. Just look at the story of Jacobo Arbenz and Guatemala.

I understand that, since you have not had an easy time in Cuba and you have seen a lot of things that are wrong, you want to find a group/a bunch of people that you can look up to for the 'liberation of Cuba'. But if these groups will take power, it will be like in today's Russia. U.S. business is going to enter Cuba. McDonalds signs will be hanging over Catedral de San Cristobal, Havana. Healthcare will be privatized. People will die from easy preventable infections.

It will be like it was before the revolution; illiteracy, diseases, extreme poverty (instead of the relative poverty that exists now), no social security etc.

[Solitary Mind]

Originally posted by Revolucion [email protected] 12 2006, 06:38 PM
Hello Proletar, im a Cuban born there lived there most of my life. The truth is there is no democracy in Cuba, because Fidel is the only power there. I remember once it try to say what i felt, and i knew the consequences, so i try to say what i feel vaguely and i was warned. Since then i have had to go away from my country, but i have hopes that one day it will change for the better of my Cuban people.
This is another problem, you talk about this...but my father says different. As does my grandmother and grandfather in Cuba. And i the whole freedom of expression thing confuses me...because theres Hip Hip music out of Cuba that critisizes Castro..yet they are untouched? plus alot of the exiles have talked shit over the phone, thats how other relatives know they are coming. And i try asking my dad about the rumors, and he dismisses alot of them, but agrees there isn't as much expression freedom, but that its justifiable given the situation and everything, and the fact that Castro knows about revolution, and he's trying to preserve his. Ive asked him if the end justify the means, and he generally tells me yes. Im not not trying to say what your syaing is wrong, im from miami, and im a Cuban-American, and i've heard it all before, but i am also confused as to things like this. I support Cuba and Castro based on my research, facts and from talking to Cubans. And frankly, the ones who hate Castro, do so for the wrong reasons (most of the exiles have never seen this political prison they are trying to escape), or just state opinions..while the ones who dont hate him, back it up with more facts. My father was a policeman in Cuba, and my grandfather is still in Cuba working for the intelligence agency...maybe you can make out some of the things im confused on and try to clear them up for me lol

[Knowledge 6 6 6]

Originally posted by Revolucion [email protected] 13 2006, 06:01 AM
NWOG, hell in earth would probably be like North Korea were people starve to death and at the same time no political freedom.

Cuba, you not starve to death but you do not have political freedom of expression, you understand men? Plus, you do not starve to death in Cuba but you can not get what you want to eat either.

Hey you know what, i found a website with pictures that make me almost cry men, because it is exactly what i llived there.

Here is store for Cubans, http://www.therealcuba.com/GraciasFidel1.JPG

Here is store for Cubans that can have US dollars, http://www.therealcuba.com/Mito10.jpg

Oh my god, this is exactly like my refrigirator in Cuba men, http://www.therealcuba.com/CubanFridge.jpg

My people suffer, i just want people to understand the truth i lived , those pictures do not lie men, they speak for themselves. I just want my people to get out of the poverty, but most of all to not be denied the freedom every man desires.
You have to understand that Castro is trying his best to supply the Cuban people with the essentials without access to American markets.

Castro said something to this effect in a book I was reading recently, where he stated that every time Cuba tries to work out an oil agreement with the Middle East, America comes in and says "if you do trade with Cuba, you do not do trade with America".

Cuba is really poor, but don't blame it on Fidel - think about it like this: there have been over 600 attempts on his life by the CIA, yet Fidel has never tried to kill any of the 9 US Presidents that came in power. If you think our society is so great just because we have 'political freedom' (I live in Canada by the way), then you have to ask the millions of people suffering making minimum wage barely able to feed their families. Or the health clinics that are far apart in the most rural parts of Canada so the poor rural people cannot get proper access to health care. You'd also have to ask why our homeless shelters are infested with diseases, making the streets seem like a better place to sleep at night.

And if by political freedom, you mean the ability to criticize your government formally, then yes that is an advantage. Compartively speaking, that's a small ideological advantage compared to reality. I think you need to understand the inherent problems in our westernized societies a bit more before we cast Fidel as a bad person.

[More Fire for the People]

This thread is almost hilarious. Castro does this and that... as if Castro could shape the whole of Cuba to his own whim. Cuba is a democratic republic of working peoples and all* actions originate from the working class and their representatives.

*Actually, most actions. The petty-bourgeoisie exerts a certain amount of control in Cuba but this probably has more to do with the blockade than anything.

[Led Zeppelin]

Originally posted by Hopscotch [email protected] 13 2006, 03:11 PM
This thread is almost hilarious. Castro does this and that... as if Castro could shape the whole of Cuba to his own whim. Cuba is a democratic republic of working peoples and all* actions originate from the working class and their representatives.

*Actually, most actions. The petty-bourgeoisie exerts a certain amount of control in Cuba but this probably has more to do with the blockade than anything.
If Cuba is a "democratic republic of working peoples" then so was the USSR.

Sorry, you can't support Cuba as a Socialist state whilst considering the USSR to be degenerated.

[More Fire for the People]

Originally posted by Marxism-Leninism+Aug 13 2006, 09:18 AM--> (Marxism-Leninism @ Aug 13 2006, 09:18 AM)
Hopscotch [email protected] 13 2006, 03:11 PM
This thread is almost hilarious. Castro does this and that... as if Castro could shape the whole of Cuba to his own whim. Cuba is a democratic republic of working peoples and all* actions originate from the working class and their representatives.

*Actually, most actions. The petty-bourgeoisie exerts a certain amount of control in Cuba but this probably has more to do with the blockade than anything.
If Cuba is a "democratic republic of working peoples" then so was the USSR.

Sorry, you can't support Cuba as a Socialist state whilst considering the USSR to be degenerated. [/b]
There is a difference between USSR and Cuba. Cuba is not a degenerated workers’ state. The CDRs and the ANPP are directly working class institutions. The Soviet Union became a degenerated workers’ state through two important fact:
[1] It was dominated by an oppurtunist sect of the Bolshevik Party [the so-called Stalinist]
[2] Political power within the party slowly transformed from the working class to a bureaucratic privileged sect of the working class.

I consider Cuba to be in the lower phase of communism: the dictatorship of the proletariat. The working class has direct control over the political and economic institutions. Products are produced for human need not human greed.

[Led Zeppelin]

Originally posted by Hopscotch Anthill
There is a difference between USSR and Cuba. Cuba is not a degenerated workers’ state. The CDRs and the ANPP are directly working class institutions.

Well, first of all, I don't know what CDR's and the ANPP is, so could you elaborate on that.

It doesn't really matter though. I'm sure they're some kind of non-party organizations who's job it is to "keep the party in check". They had the in the USSR as well, it was called the workers' and peasants' inspection and the Soviets.

The point is that the party owns everything, and the party is not Communist in practice. Allowing "limited capitalism" and supporting Soviet social-imperialist policy, and turning Cuba into a vassal of the Soviet empire, is a betrayal of basic Communist principals.

Furthermore, if you claim that Cuba is already Socialist, then that renders Lenin's theory of the state useless and, most importantly, wrong. Since I know you are a Leninist, are you saying that Lenin was wrong on the state in his State and Revolution?


The Soviet Union became a degenerated workers’ state through two important fact:
[1] It was dominated by an oppurtunist sect of the Bolshevik Party [the so-called Stalinist]

Stalin's policies were closer to Communism than Castro's.


[2] Political power within the party slowly transformed from the working class to a bureaucratic privileged sect of the working class.


Which is what has happened in Cuba decades ago.


I consider Cuba to be in the lower phase of communism: the dictatorship of the proletariat. The working class has direct control over the political and economic institutions. Products are produced for human need not human greed.

You may consider it whatever you want, it doesn't make it theoretically viable. Both in ideology and in practice Cuba is not Socialist. Of course I support Cuba's anti-imperialist stance, but if there were to be a real Communist party fighting for the overthrow of Castro's government, I would support them.

[More Fire for the People]

Well, first of all, I don't know what CDR's and the ANPP is, so could you elaborate on that.
Committes for the Defense of the Revolution and the National Asssembly of People’s Power.


It doesn't really matter though. I'm sure they're some kind of non-party organizations who's job it is to "keep the party in check". They had the in the USSR as well, it was called the workers' and peasants' inspection and the Soviets.
CDRs organize things like civil defense, recycling, social events, and more importantly they discuss and critique laws. The National Assembly formulates the laws and the members of the NA are directly elected and recallable.


The point is that the party owns everything, and the party is not Communist in practice. Allowing "limited capitalism" and supporting Soviet social-imperialist policy, and turning Cuba into a vassal of the Soviet empire, is a betrayal of basic Communist principals.
Thank you Mr. Reagan, but I prefer Mr. Marx. The Party ‘owns’ nothing. Everything is decided by the people. Workplaces are organized under workers’ councils and assemblies. Cubans working in foreign businesses are automatically organized into unions . And you criticize Cuba for responding to the international situation? An island nation cannot withdraw itself from the global system. I hardly see how trading with capitalists and permitting necessary foreign industries to sparcely operate under workers’ insepction. Lenin desired foreign investment for the survival of the RSFSR because the objective conditions of the time demanded it.



Furthermore, if you claim that Cuba is already Socialist, then that renders Lenin's theory of the state useless and, most importantly, wrong. Since I know you are a Leninist, are you saying that Lenin was wrong on the state in his State and Revolution?
Cuba is not socialist, it is the process of [i]constructing socialism.


Stalin's policies were closer to Communism than Castro's.
Stalin’s policy was effectively neither 'left nor right' deviation aka centrist oppurtunism. Lenin conceived that the Bolsheviks made every mistake possible but “but now every mistake will serve to teach, not handfuls of students taking some course of theory in state administration, but millions of working people who will personally suffer the consequences of every mistake”. Stalin’s oppurtunism was the worst kind: secure the rule of the centrists who refuse to act until the last minute.


Which is what has happened in Cuba decades ago.
I do not see how this is the case.

[Led Zeppelin]

Originally posted by Hopscotch Anthill+--> (Hopscotch Anthill)The National Assembly formulates the laws and the members of the NA are directly elected and recallable.[/b]

Does one have to be a member of the Communist Party to be elected? If not, what is the role of the Communist Party?


Thank you Mr. Reagan, but I prefer Mr. Marx. The Party ‘owns’ nothing. Everything is decided by the people. Workplaces are organized under workers’ councils and assemblies. Cubans working in foreign businesses are automatically organized into unions [I think]. And you criticize Cuba for responding to the international situation? An island nation cannot withdraw itself from the global system. I hardly see how trading with capitalists and permitting necessary foreign industries to sparcely operate under workers’ insepction. Lenin desired foreign investment for the survival of the RSFSR because the objective conditions of the time demanded it.

You seem to prefer Mr. Castro, certainly not Marx. If the party own's nothing, and the national assembly formulates the laws, then what is the point of the party existing?

Of course the reality is different. Cuba is a one-party state like the USSR was, even though it has "councils" and "national assemblies", it still functions like the USSR did in essence. I don't have a problem with that. I have a problem with Castro turning Cuba into a vassal of Soviet social-imperialism and making Cubans second-class citizens in their own country, whilst promoting tourists to first-class citizens.

When Castro dies and the same thing happens in Cuba as happened in the former USSR, China, Vietnam, Albania etc. I will be proven correct. When that does happen you'll probably denounce the next leader, who gets hand-picked by Castro to rule the nation, to be a "traitor to Communism". Like you did with Kruschev a few months ago.


Cuba is not socialist, it is the process of constructing socialism.


Hopscotch Anthill
I consider Cuba to be in the lower phase of communism: the dictatorship of the proletariat. The working class has direct control over the political and economic institutions. Products are produced for human need not human greed.
Italics added.

Change your mind so soon? The lower phase of Communism is Socialism, if Cuba is "in the lower phase of Communism" then it is Socialist, at least, that's what you said.

But since you're saying something else now, could you explain what Castro has done in the last 50 years to create the type of state Lenin theorized in State and Revolution, i.e., a proletarian state?


I do not see how this is the case.

Well, a few days ago Castro's brother was given leadership over the island without any discussion amongst workers. I don't see how that could happen in a true Socialist nation. In the dictatorship of the proletariat the workers directly elect their representatives, and the representatives, who are workers themselves, are eligible for recall at all times.

How many recall votes were started against Castro? Let me guess, zero? I don't think that's because he's been doing such a great job.

[More Fire for the People]

Does one have to be a member of the Communist Party to be elected? If not, what is the role of the Communist Party?
You do not have to be a member to be elected. The CP holds extra-parliamentary rallies, social events, etc. Within the National Assembly they promote a socialist programme.


You seem to prefer Mr. Castro, certainly not Marx. If the party own's nothing, and the national assembly formulates the laws, then what is the point of the party existing?
Little. The Cuban working class are overcoming the reliance on an section of the class conscious working class.


Of course the reality is different. Cuba is a one-party state like the USSR was, even though it has "councils" and "national assemblies", it still functions like the USSR did in essence. I don't have a problem with that. I have a problem with Castro turning Cuba into a vassal of Soviet social-imperialism and making Cubans second-class citizens in their own country, whilst promoting tourists to first-class citizens.
I do not care if a state is multi-party, one-party, or no-party. What matters is who runs the show: the working class or the bureaucracy? Cuba made some mistakes in its relations with USSR but it was objectively necessary for the survival of the Cuban republic to rely on someone’s aid.

The tourist problem is something that needs to be handled now. The Cuban economy is relying too much on foreign tourists but again Cuba needs aid in its development. Cuba is adjusting to the global situation while trying to retain its socialist character.


When Castro dies and the same thing happens in Cuba as happened in the former USSR, China, Vietnam, Albania etc. I will be proven correct. When that does happen you'll probably denounce the next leader, who gets hand-picked by Castro to rule the nation, to be a "traitor to Communism". Like you did with Kruschev a few months ago.
Doubt it. The president is elected by the National Assembly. If Castro dies in between elections power will go to Raúl Castro becuase he is a vice president. Raúl is not as popular and will probably be replaced in the next election by someone like Rocque or Alarcon.


Change your mind so soon? The lower phase of Communism is Socialism, if Cuba is "in the lower phase of Communism" then it is Socialist, at least, that's what you said.
The dictatorship of the proletariat includes but is not limited to socialism.


Well, a few days ago Castro's brother was given leadership over the island without any discussion amongst workers. I don't see how that could happen in a true Socialist nation.
Raúl Castro is the elected vice president. ;) By the constitution power shifts to vice president if the president becomes seriously ill or dies.

[Revolucion Compadre]

NWOG i dont suppor the explotion of the Cuban airplane, that guy was not Alpha 66, and he did not live in Miami i think, he just recently asked for asylum.

Brothers to the Rescue are not terrorist at all, in fact two of their little airplanes were like a couple of miles off Cuba in 1994 or something and Cuba ordered for them to be shot down, Cuban airforce plane came and shot them down, you call that fair men? If the same had been done to Castro plane by US or something it will have been called a HUGE murder by Killer Americans and shit.

The US i know all about men, America doesn't give a shit about any country, if Cuba had oil Fidel would have been long gone. But if you think about it, isn't that how we all are? I know it's a bad thing from US, but after all they are just doing everything in their own interest, im sorry but that is what every country does.

These groups would not take power i think anyways. What i want is for Cuban people to rebel in Cuba against CUba, but unfortunately there is many brainwashed, and the rest of the population oppressed making very scared everybody. You have 1 guy looking what you do, then 1 guy looking that other guy that is looking at you.

So what if American business enters Cuba? Why are you so mad against US? I said i don't care if business from Planet Mars enters Cuba, i want better life for all my people. No, healthcare and education can stay the same, but for the first time we will have equipment denied to us, and given to tourist. Is like South Africa aparthaid, something must be done NWOG, i suffer thinking about this injustuce men.

It will be like before the revolution? Hahaha, isn't that how it is now!? What has the revolution done? Improvement in alphabetisation, and improvement in "distribution" of healthcare, and aparthaid for Cuban people from tourist. Men Cuba is no socilaism, Cuba is capitalism men, go to Cuba and see the balck market in the streets, 50 pesos for 1 dollar and shit, in order for a mother to buy her kid a pack of gum that he wants! You think the coperatives give gum to children?

[Karl Marx's Camel]

Brothers to the Rescue are not terrorist at all

José Basulto
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José Basulto is the leader of the Cuban exile organization Brothers to the Rescue. The group, whose stated purpose was to assist Cuban emigrant rafters fleeing from the country, has violated Cuban airspace on numerous occasions and dropped anti-Fidel Castro leaflets over Havana. Basulto is considered a terrorist by the Cuban government. [1]

Since the Cuban Revolution, Basulto participated in various activities intended to subvert or overthrow the Cuban government. After the revolution, he was trained by the CIA in intelligence, communications, explosives, sabotage and subversion in Panama, Guatemala, and the United States. He was later placed back into Cuba, posing as a physics student at the University of Santiago to help prepare the ground for the Bay of Pigs Invasion. [2] In 1961, under CIA sponsorship, Basulto infiltrated Cuba for a commando operation intended to sabotage an alleged missile site, a mission which was ultimately aborted. In August 1962 he took a boat to Cuba and fired a 20mm cannon at a hotel, though nobody was killed in the incident. In the 1980s Basulto flew medical supplies to the Nicaraguan Contras.

Ever since the Cuban government shot down the planes, Basulto has sought to have criminal and civil charges pressed over the matter. He was awarded a $1.7 million judgement in January of 2005. On May 24 of that same year, Basulto announced a one million dollar reward for information leading to the indictment of Raúl Castro on drug charges or charges related to the shooting of the Hermanos planes. ""It would throw a wrench in the machinery," Basulto said of a possible indictment. [3]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Basulto



What i want is for Cuban people to rebel in Cuba against CUba

Okay, so you want people to rebel in Cuba against Cuba.

I am beginning to think I know where you stand. :(

Normally, I would have sympathy for Cubans critical of the government but...



So what if American business enters Cuba? Why are you so mad against US?
U.S. business has a long history of making things worse. Look at what happened in Guatemala under Jacobo Arbenz, and after he was ousted. It was because of U.S. business (United Fruit Company).


If the same had been done to Castro plane by US or something it will have been called a HUGE murder by Killer Americans and shit.

I do not think Cuban paramilitaries or Cuba military is going into Cuban territory and dropping things (propaganda) from planes and stuff like that.


something must be done NWOG

I agree with you.

The big question is "what must be done". I will tell you I am pretty certain it will not get better if the Castro regime is replaced by a pro-U.S. government.

It will turn out like other south american nations.

[R_P_A_S]

Originally posted by Revolucion [email protected] 13 2006, 06:01 AM
NWOG, hell in earth would probably be like North Korea were people starve to death and at the same time no political freedom.

Cuba, you not starve to death but you do not have political freedom of expression, you understand men? Plus, you do not starve to death in Cuba but you can not get what you want to eat either.

Hey you know what, i found a website with pictures that make me almost cry men, because it is exactly what i llived there.

Here is store for Cubans, http://www.therealcuba.com/GraciasFidel1.JPG

Here is store for Cubans that can have US dollars, http://www.therealcuba.com/Mito10.jpg

Oh my god, this is exactly like my refrigirator in Cuba men, http://www.therealcuba.com/CubanFridge.jpg

My people suffer, i just want people to understand the truth i lived , those pictures do not lie men, they speak for themselves. I just want my people to get out of the poverty, but most of all to not be denied the freedom every man desires.
i smell gusano....

hey drop the act homie. you know you some rich whie cuban from miami beach.. coming on here putting up a front. typing with a wanna be scarface accent. please man.

I bet you never lived in Cuba. you probably arent even Cuba.

I smell gusano...

[Karl Marx's Camel]

hey drop the act homie. you know you some rich whie cuban from miami beach..

I would guess, probably he is white, since a lot of those who leave Cuba are white. I say this because I interpret your "whie" as "white".

Considering his english is not very good (okay mine is neither but), it is far from certain that he has left Cuba because his family lost business etc. Most of those who have left Cuba, didn't do it in 1959, 1960 and so on; That's when the upper middle class/ruling class left. At least that is my impression.



i smell gusano....
Me too. But perhaps he is just uninformed.

Maybe he has emotional scars after a difficult time in Cuba, and he want to sort things out.
Give him some time.

[Mystery-Man]

hi... yeah, I smell gusano too

it's really easy to talk shit about Castro, when I went to miami in 1992, I was 7 years old and cuban gusanos were telling stories about castro eats babies.. come on... even his family hates him, YOU KNOW WHY? because he started the revolution in his house, in his famiily, he had money (I dont know if a lot), but he expropriated his family lands and propeties.. he did it, he really kicked US out of his country.

cuba is a small country but they always help otrhe countries.. ALWAYS. the people is reall really aware of the world situation, they help even if they dont have resources...

thank god venezuela bolivia, brazil and even chile and argentina are awake now... now the revolutions begins in every one of us!... even if chavez, castro, lula, morales die , the people has changed, and thast the important thing! not cuba is a hell hole, if is a hellhole is thank to the embargo!

all hell cant stops us now!

[Knowledge 6 6 6]

I find it really funny how people criticize Castro so much...as if the Cuban people were so much more liberated under liberal capitalism. America was in Cuba and the people were not eating, being educated nor being taken care of. All that has changed. And still, those who criticize Castro say he's some horrible dictator.

I was reading Eric William's "From Columbus to Castro: A History of the Caribbean" last night, and he claims that before Castro, none of the Cuban people had green vegetables as a staple of their diet.

And of course, there was only 1 doctor for every 2,000 people before Castro. Yeah, I&#39;d say he&#39;s a cold-blooded dictator... <_<

[Revolucion Compadre]

i smell gusano....

hey drop the act homie. you know you some rich whie cuban from miami beach.. coming on here putting up a front. typing with a wanna be scarface accent. please man.

I bet you never lived in Cuba. you probably arent even Cuba.

I smell gusano...

Who are you to tell who i am or label me? Gusano? Is that because i don&#39;t approve of Castro&#39;s regime? Fuck you men, gusano to me is one who doesn&#39;t care about his people, do you know what it feels like to try to go to a discoteche in Varadero and they tell you " NO, only tourists allowed", EVEN IF I CARRIED DOLLARS&#33;&#33; You know nothing of that so shut up, Yo si soy Cubano oiste, yo no se de donde tu eres comemierda pero el gusano eres tu.

And yes im white, my great grand father was from Galicia Spain, same as Fidel&#39;s ancestors, 39% of the population is white, and what is your point? You are racist or something men? I smell racist now, what does whit or black or mulato has to do with anything? I came in 1996. And yes, you can call me rich, IM Millionare compared to what i was in Cuba, not just in material wealth but in happiness which i value more ok men.
What accent? Where you from men? You never have been to Miami to know how Cubans talk so shut up, i hate people who talk shit but don&#39;t have the clue or don&#39;t even know me, and specially the situation.


I would guess, probably he is white, since a lot of those who leave Cuba are white. I say this because I interpret your "whie" as "white".

Considering his english is not very good (okay mine is neither but), it is far from certain that he has left Cuba because his family lost business etc. Most of those who have left Cuba, didn&#39;t do it in 1959, 1960 and so on; That&#39;s when the upper middle class/ruling class left. At least that is my impression.

Thats when the upper middle class/ruling class left&#33;? :lol: You really think there is no class division in Cuba right? In Varadero there are Cubans who live with satellite TV eating lobster, when i use to go there with my family for vacation (because i can&#39;t leave the country if i wanted to go somewhere else) , i rented with a guy like that, a Cuban who rented appartments for vacationers. Then there are the people who work in tourist hotels, they get paid in dollars, while those who work in normal Cuban jobs get paid in pesos, who do you think lives better? If i want to drink a Coca Cola i need dollars, if i want to eat some cookies, i need dollars, if i want to eat patatoe chips i need dollars, if i want to eat anything that is not rice beans and some meat given by the state i need dollars men.


Me too. But perhaps he is just uninformed.

Maybe he has emotional scars after a difficult time in Cuba, and he want to sort things out.
Give him some time.

Uninformed? About what? About what i saw with my own two eyes and lived with my flesh and bones? I doubt you who have never been to Cuba can "inform" me better men, that is what pisses me off about these people who think they know, and label me a gusano

Knowledge 666, that is bullshit, people in Cuba were eating well before the revolution, my grandfather told me about how in our small town there was stores all over where food was available for everyone, for the money you earned in your job. The only thing was about education and maybe healthcare. Farmers were not educated and there was no hospitals around them, but they are the same way they were before eating. But even so, i come from a small town in Villa Clara, the only hospital in all of Villa Clara is in Santa Clara, there are "policlinicos" (i don&#39;t know how to say that in english), but in there is just to see how you are ,and if you are really sick they then send you to the hospital if you can get there. Because most people don&#39;t have cars, and there are no buses or ambulance to take you, my friends dad died in his arms when he had a stroke because there was no ambulance to take him to the hospital.

[black magick hustla]

Revolución Compadre.

i think you are being a bit naive, after all Cuba is a third world country, you cannot expect most cubans having access to the same things americans do. The intelligent thing would be to compare Cuba to the other surrounding third world countries, and the way it has developed compared to them.

I do not know the political conditions of Cuba. Certainly the constitution looks very democratic and nice on paper, and many communist groups that have gone down there argue that it is "the most democratic country on earth". However others, including the mainstream media, portray Castro as a ruthless despot.

Saludos camarada.

[eyeswideopen]

I can&#39;t believe everything i read here. What i see is this. I encounter cuban people on a daily basis, and i have not met a single one that supports Castro, this is obvious, because the people i encounter don&#39;t live in Cuba and have left because of that reason. I believe that the ideals that Che had, that the concept of his ideals are beautiful. Unfortunately that is not what you see in Cuba, Cuba&#39;s communism is a failed communism. It does not fullfill the ideals. It is communism gone bad, a sour communism. The world has yet to see what communism would look like at it&#39;s compelte fullfillment, a succesful communism. and by succesful i don&#39;t mean a government that says it&#39;s communist. But a country where you see all these communist ideals brought to life. Where everyone gets good food and good living.
YOu see, in short, in cuba, everyone lives the same (which isn&#39;t entriely true) but, if everyone lives the same, they all live in bad conditions, and that&#39;s not the point of communism, it&#39;s for everyone to live WELL. I&#39;m sad to say that communism might be a good idea, a good theory, but it is something that might be too much for humans to accomplish. Sure we can establish communism in countries, but they will never fullfill what the theory says communism is, they will only attempt to, and fail. Like Castro and his dying Cuba.

[Revolucion Compadre]

Revolución Compadre.

i think you are being a bit naive, after all Cuba is a third world country, you cannot expect most cubans having access to the same things americans do. The intelligent thing would be to compare Cuba to the other surrounding third world countries, and the way it has developed compared to them.

I do not know the political conditions of Cuba. Certainly the constitution looks very democratic and nice on paper, and many communist groups that have gone down there argue that it is "the most democratic country on earth". However others, including the mainstream media, portray Castro as a ruthless despot.

Saludos camarada.

Marmot, how am i being naive when im talking from personal expirience and everything i have said is the truth i have lived? The truth is not naive.

No, in the contrary, Cubans do have access to the same things Americans do, only those who have dollars of course, well not really everything just food and clothes, because like i have said your not allowed into tourist areas in your own country. And how do you think dollar is obtained? Black market, and families bringing money back and using it in Fidel&#39;s businesses. Men if El Che would be alive right now he would have a heart attack please.
Plus, because in Haiti is worst than Cuba that is supposed to be some type of excuse? Cuba has always been on top of the rest of Latin America even before the revolution.

[black magick hustla]

Originally posted by Revolucion [email protected] 15 2006, 05:12 PM

Revolución Compadre.

i think you are being a bit naive, after all Cuba is a third world country, you cannot expect most cubans having access to the same things americans do. The intelligent thing would be to compare Cuba to the other surrounding third world countries, and the way it has developed compared to them.

I do not know the political conditions of Cuba. Certainly the constitution looks very democratic and nice on paper, and many communist groups that have gone down there argue that it is "the most democratic country on earth". However others, including the mainstream media, portray Castro as a ruthless despot.

Saludos camarada.

Marmot, how am i being naive when im talking from personal expirience and everything i have said is the truth i have lived? The truth is not naive.

No, in the contrary, Cubans do have access to the same things Americans do, only those who have dollars of course, well not really everything just food and clothes, because like i have said your not allowed into tourist areas in your own country. And how do you think dollar is obtained? Black market, and families bringing money back and using it in Fidel&#39;s businesses. Men if El Che would be alive right now he would have a heart attack please.
Plus, because in Haiti is worst than Cuba that is supposed to be some type of excuse? Cuba has always been on top of the rest of Latin America even before the revolution.
You are naive for comparing your situation in America to the one of Cuba.

Here in Mexico, workers all the time cross the american border illegally in hope of getting a better life. Many of them do succeed getting a better life, but that is obviously because America is a first world imperialist country and Mexico is somewhat third worldish.

I am not arguing in favor of the Castrist regime, I am just commenting that it is pretty stupid to compare a third world country to a first world.

[Revolucion Compadre]

You are naive for comparing your situation in America to the one of Cuba.

Here in Mexico, workers all the time cross the american border illegally in hope of getting a better life. Many of them do succeed getting a better life, but that is obviously because America is a first world imperialist country and Mexico is somewhat third worldish.

I am not arguing in favor of the Castrist regime, I am just commenting that it is pretty stupid to compare a third world country to a first world.

Your right about having a better life in USA than in Cuba regardless, but am i naive also when i talk about freedom of expression and democracy? I dont think freedom of expression and democracy are limited to the USA and Europe.

[Xiao Banfa]

This "Revolucion Compadre" guy hasn&#39;t substantiated any thing he has said.

I liked when he said:


Lennie Jusche, as a Cuban i feel very proud to see us as 100% literacy rate, but i know this is not true since i come from Villa Clara province and some people are still illiterate.

Well&#33; "Some people are illiterate&#39;&#39;&#33; Of course, I&#39;m going to believe the guy who sticks up for Brothers to the rescue rather than data gathered by the UN.
Sorry, mate.


My mother worked in El Banco Popular de Ahorro, the bank deal with many farmers, and many some were illiterate.

Really? Another compelling piece of evidence.


All i see in this page is statistics, why don&#39;t you show the real situation of the people? Show pictures show videos, this says nothing of the real situation my friend.

Impeccable logic&#33; I know, I&#39;ll show you a fuckload of pictures and videos and no statistics which will make my country look like the abode of the damned.
Of course, shoddy propaganda is far more honest than factual information.
Silly me&#33;

Maybe RC should have stayed in Cuba, they could have taught him how to think.

[Revolucion Compadre]

Well&#33; "Some people are illiterate&#39;&#39;&#33; Of course, I&#39;m going to believe the guy who sticks up for Brothers to the rescue rather than data gathered by the UN.
Sorry, mate

Well you don&#39;t have to believe me, you have your right to skepticism, im the Cuban here and the one who has lived there not you, and i can tell you there were obviously illiterates who were backwards farmers.

Plus , Borthers to the Rescue save balseros who risk their lives to cross the ocean, it&#39;s respectable what they do. Sorry i must be some stupid person to not realize the horrible attrocity of dropping propaganda against the Castro regime in Cuba by Brothers to the Rescue planes. :rolleyes: How could i not see the almost Nazi attitude of these nasty Brothers to the Rescue ruthless killers. :lol: They keep rescuing balseros who are in the sea in need of help, GOSH DISGUSTING&#33; :P


Really? Another compelling piece of evidence.

Where is your evidence this is untrue? My mother use to go to a place called Jiquiabo, which was a place where there wasn&#39;t even electricity or paved roads, but well that is natural in many places where farmers live in Cuba, of course im not saying large population was illiterate, but i remember like 1 or 2 old people who were.



Impeccable logic&#33; I know, I&#39;ll show you a fuckload of pictures and videos and no statistics which will make my country look like the abode of the damned.
Of course, shoddy propaganda is far more honest than factual information.
Silly me&#33;

Maybe RC should have stayed in Cuba, they could have taught him how to think.

Pictures and videps speak fothemselves, unless they are altered. If they are not altered you cannot refute what you see with your own eyes. So you believe statistics is concrete? And you tell me i need to be taught how to think? We all know statistics are misleading.

Im sure the statistics say healthcare is wonderful and the best in the world in Cuba.

http://www.therealcuba.com/Page10.htm , nough said.

[Xiao Banfa]

So you believe statistics is concrete? And you tell me i need to be taught how to think? We all know statistics are misleading

I&#39;m not going to keep repeating myself, so listen- then think about it.

Those statistics are from sources unsympathetic to cuban socialism. Latin american business magazines, the CIA and the UN don&#39;t wan&#39;t you to believe good things about Cuba.

The UN are neutral at best. Why would these organisations make good things up about Cuba? They wouldn&#39;t.

Like your posts, www.therealcuba.com is unsourced and academically unreliable.

[Xiao Banfa]

By the way, I could show you pictures of 5 kids sleeping in one damp cold room from my country, a first world country&#33; That doesn&#39;t even happen in Cuba&#33;

I could show you thousands of pictures of all kinds of nasty things that happen in my country that would make a cubans&#39; skin crawl.

It wouldn&#39;t show a balanced picture unless it&#39;s in the context of other information, however.

And if it didn&#39;t include factual information (figures, statistics) it wouldn&#39;t be taken seriously by anyone attempting to understand the situation.

[Revolucion Compadre]

I&#39;m not going to keep repeating myself, so listen- then think about it.

Those statistics are from sources unsympathetic to cuban socialism. Latin american business magazines, the CIA and the UN don&#39;t wan&#39;t you to believe good things about Cuba.

The UN are neutral at best. Why would these organisations make good things up about Cuba? They wouldn&#39;t.

Like your posts, www.therealcuba.com is unsourced and academically unreliable.

Yes i know the UN, and it says good literacy rate for Cuba , is true. But you should know hat statistics are not accurate, and misleading, this is not me , it&#39;s a well known fact men. The only thing Cuba has is good amount of doctors and everything is free, but there is lack of medical equipment, lack of medicines, lack of everything, look at the pictures i show you in therealcuba.com, no it&#39;s not unsourced, look at it very well, and the fact is they actually go to Cuba and record their findings visually as you have seen. I just want you, or anyone here to disprove anything that website shows or says and i will concede.

You told me to think about it, i have , but your the one who should, in paper Cuba looks like a 1st world country, is it? In paper Cuba looks pretty much like America or a Western European country, is it? Far off from all of those, so then i must be stupid not to see that statistics are not misleading :rolleyes:



By the way, I could show you pictures of 5 kids sleeping in one damp cold room from my country, a first world country&#33; That doesn&#39;t even happen in Cuba&#33;

I could show you thousands of pictures of all kinds of nasty things that happen in my country that would make a cubans&#39; skin crawl.

It wouldn&#39;t show a balanced picture unless it&#39;s in the context of other information, however.

And if it didn&#39;t include factual information (figures, statistics) it wouldn&#39;t be taken seriously by anyone attempting to understand the situation.

Ohh yes, that is true, im sure you can go anywhere in the world and take a picture of a homeless person and make it look bad. But i want you to go and equal the pictures in therealcuba.com of hospitals and buildings and the situation of the people. I mean the pictures are of everyday life.

compare pictures:

http://www.therealcuba.com/CUbachildren004.jpg

go ahead, i will give you time, go and take pictures of your countries capital that equal this


http://www.therealcuba.com/CHILDRENHOSPITALr.JPG

go and take pictures of your countries hospital that equal this ^

http://www.therealcuba.com/Noambulancia.JPG

Im sure that is a common site in your country huh ^, he was transporting his dad to the hospital because he was ill, obviously most people in Cuba don&#39;t have cars, and like i said the ambulances are not available.


Since it&#39;s being brought up again, people involved in the creation of the CTP have lived and worked in Cuba -- not that it matters much, since the site isn&#39;t based on ancetodal evidence, but rather cold hard facts

Yeah, living in Hotel Melia in Varadero shouldn&#39;t be much of a problem, if you take me to North Korea and i live in the tourist section im sure going to say great things specially when my brain is washed.


And if Cubans were "allowed" in the foreign-tourist areas (of course there are plenty of vacation spots for Cubans&#33;&#33;), people like you would be crying that Cuba promotes sex tourism

What the fuck? "of course there are plenty of vacation spots for Cubans", what is that supposed to mean? Aparthaid is ok, because ohh what the hell there are other places you can go&#33;&#33;&#33; YEah like in the 1960&#39;s, what were the blacks complaining about? There were other places they could have gone and eat that allowed blacks, so that made it alright&#33; :angry:

I would be crying that Cuba promotes sex tourism? Yeah like me and my family wanting to stay in a decent hotel or eat in a restaurant means i want to have sex with a tourist :rolleyes:

Plus , you obviously did not live in Cuba to say such rubbish, if you would know anything you would know that prostitution in Cuba with tourists is huge. What is the indication of this? That people are poor bastards looking for a tourist to get anything , even a Pepsi Cola or something, and then maybe go move with that tourist to their native country. You know i have a cousin that is 16 and she has already had 1 tourist boyfriend, so when i think about this and the situation i lived over there it just makes me wonder why? The facts are there, the testimonies are there, the whole world knows and denounces this, and if you all support UN so much , because UN has denounced of human rights violations in CUba, yet there are some people who seem blind to the situation. I ask why? I guess there are always going to be these types of people, :( makes me really sad, and angry at the same time, i mean people coming in here telling me im lying schooling me about my own country that i lived in for more than half of my life.

Well, goodbye, keep living in your dream worlds.

[Viva Fidel]

Originally posted by Compañ[email protected] 10 2006, 09:04 PM
I have lived and worked in Cuba. I&#39;ve spent a total of about a year there.
CompañeroDeLibertad, did you do this through a program? If so, which one? If not, how did you do this? I am an American looking to dothe same thing. Perhaps we can talk more about this?

[Solitary Mind]

Revolucion Compadre..i have to agree with what someone said.your a Gusano. im a Cuban-American and you are a Gusano. You say you know about Cuba, but you don&#39;t think that the brothers were terrorists? And you act as if a third world country is going to live like someone from the US. Who if you havent noticed, are almost all white and rich? And you can say what you want, but i have a Grandfather who lives and works for Cuba...and my dad whos here now tells me about Cuba...and i think I&#39;d take their word over yours as would other people. i could go on and on about all your faults...but id rather not...as Jose Marti would call you..GUSANO

[Viva Fidel&#33;&#33;]

Revolucion compadre.....you are ignorant. Quit your "I came from Cuba" act already. Admit that you were born here in Miami and your family were part of the bourgeois Cubans who left their country because they supported Batista. Admit your family was too greedy to share the wealth with the black cubans that lived en los campos.

If you want to point the finger at somebody, point it at the United States and their inhumane embargo on Cuba. For the past 12 years the U.N has voted for the embargo to be lifted and America refuses to do it. Why? Because they can&#39;t stand to see a Latin American country be succesful as far as the economy goes. What is wrong with another country being independent? The US is independent aren&#39;t they? Why do other countries have to follow the US and share their same interest? Oh...I know why&#33; So the U.S can stick their pathetic puppet democracies in those countries and use them for their resources. Latin America has the potential to have the richest countries in the world. But thanks to the United States and other imperialist countries, Latin America has been facing oppression for the past 500 years. They never got the chance to establish an independent government the same way the United States did.

They hate Fidel Castro because he liberated Cuba from U.S oppression. Cuba...the same country that was known as the "whore-house" of the carribean before revolution. Cuba...the same country infected with gangsters such as Meyer Lansky and Lucky Luciano. The same country that had more than half the population illiterate.

But why did they back Batista? because he went along with the U.S "flow". He was a dictator walking on strings.

When Fidel Castro came in, Cuba&#39;s literacy rate went up in HIGH numbers. The prostitution rate decreased due to the fact that his communist government got rid of all the whore houses that gave filth to the streets of Havana. All the gangsters left Cuba when Fidel came into power. Cuba has the lowest drug rate in all of Latin America. And I can guarantee you if it wasn&#39;t for the embargo, Cuba&#39;s economy wouldn&#39;t be the same as it is today. I can guarantee you that neither I nor you would be living in the United States (I plan to move back to Cuba once I become legal). I guarantee you that Cuba would still be getting the latest cars, and the latest in modern technology.

Don&#39;t blame for Castro for Cuba&#39;s economic situation. He breaks his back for Cuba. If he didn&#39;t care about Cuba he wouldn&#39;t have risked his life for the country. Lift the embargo, and you will see how Cuba&#39;s economy will change for the better.

So please, shut your fucking mouth. You know nothing. All you know is the bullshit channel 41 and radio mambi feeds your small brain. All you see is the negative propaganda all over the United States. But go to another country in the world and see what they think about Fidel Castro. So do me the favor and quit posting responses on this forum. Tu eres un desgraciado gusano que no sabe nada. Tu no eres Cubano. YO SOY CUBANO&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; Tu eres una marioneta de los Estados Unidos.

[Revolucion Compadre]

You&#39;re a gusano fool. You haven&#39;t refuted a single fact from the CTP site, so you fail.

The people involved didn&#39;t stay in a tourist hotel once. They went with work brigades and stayed with Cuba families in their homes. I myself have been there on a work brigade, and again on my own for several months. Neither time did I use a single tourist amenity.

I never said Cuba didn&#39;t have high literacy rate, and low infant mortality and stuff, those are just statistics, like i said funny how you don&#39;t come back and argue what i said about statistically in paper Cuba being = to USA or Western Europe, yet we all know it&#39;s far from.

Asi que estuviste en una brigada estudiantil? Te quedaste con una familia que es parte del CDR lo mas seguro y que tenian cosas que otros cubiches no tienen porque son del partido. Ven aca, y no viste la gente como te miraba? No viste que alguien te pidio por un dolar? No viste la gente que quieren comprar en las shopping pero no pueden porque no tienen dolares?


I don&#39;t support the UN. The UN is full of capitalist and neocolonial countries, and is run in the interests of the imperialists for the most part. That is why their statistics (and those of Latin Business magazine) are so astounding.

Amnesty International says there are 72 political prisoners in Cuba. Cuba of course admits this, but also explains that these 72 people were being paid the imperialists to overthrow the revolution. There is no country in the world that I can enter, under the pay of a foreign government to overthrow the government, and if caught, not go to jail, or worse.

Of course you don&#39;t mention that Cuba is a founding member of the UN Human Rights Commission, and has been elected to it several times (and is on it now&#33;). http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=10472

Ohh yes, how silly of me, if Cuban government says these dissidents where paid by Afrika Bambata and the Zulu Nation that would also make sense :rolleyes:


First of all, it&#39;s not "huge". Visit the Dominican Republic, Costa Rica, the Philippines, Thailand, Indonesia or Brazil and then tell me it&#39;s "huge". It pails in comparison

I have, been to Santo Domingo and Punta Cana, never saw it. Thailand i know is big problem as well as Cambodia.



It&#39;s not like before the revolution when Blacks weren&#39;t allowed to go to the fucking beach...

WHAT&#33;? :blink: That is TOTAL BULLLLLLSHIT&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; I want to hear proof, notes, sites, sources, everything&#33;&#33; that is the most ridiculous thing i have ever HEARD&#33;&#33;&#33;



They could go to school or be trained and get a job that would meet their needs. It&#39;s nothing like the prostitution scenes in other third world (and even imperialist) countries in which prostitutes are mostly drug addicts or mothers who can&#39;t afford to take care of their children

Yeah, do you know the Cuban school system? Apparently no, i hope you know that in Cuba you get your job according to your score in el Pre, and after your out you don&#39;t go back to el Pre. Yes exactly, prostitution in other countries is for drug addicts same as poverty, so which means that the only indication is that the Cuban system sucks it&#39;s not working and people are in desperate needs.


And no one is going with a tourist "for a Pepsi or a Coke". You&#39;re being ridiculous and dishonest.

Im not dishonest, your the one who is, it&#39;s not ridiculous. Of course it&#39;s not for just a Pesi moron, it&#39;s for underware, for shampoo, for colone, for dehoderant, for soap, for clothes&#33;For all the things that are sold in la shopping&#33; and if you really have been to Cuba you know what im talking about.


Revolucion Compadre..i have to agree with what someone said.your a Gusano. im a Cuban-American and you are a Gusano. You say you know about Cuba, but you don&#39;t think that the brothers were terrorists? And you act as if a third world country is going to live like someone from the US. Who if you havent noticed, are almost all white and rich? And you can say what you want, but i have a Grandfather who lives and works for Cuba...and my dad whos here now tells me about Cuba...and i think I&#39;d take their word over yours as would other people. i could go on and on about all your faults...but id rather not...as Jose Marti would call you..GUSANO

You are the most moronic person iv ever met, so your dad is the sole speaker of truth? Me da pena que seas Cubano y que me llames un gusano, de veras que me da pena, ven aca muchachito mocoso, dime, porque tu papito te trajo aqui a este pais? Gusano is a worm, that is Fidel and the supporters, a worm is somebody who doesn&#39;t care about their own people, they are not Cubans. Have you been to Cuba? It was great wasn&#39;t it? Try to have no dollars and then come back and tell me how great it was.



Revolucion compadre.....you are ignorant. Quit your "I came from Cuba" act already. Admit that you were born here in Miami and your family were part of the bourgeois Cubans who left their country because they supported Batista. Admit your family was too greedy to share the wealth with the black cubans that lived en los campos.

The ignorant is you, who doesn&#39;t know shit about Cuba has never been there and you do not know me, yo naci en Villa Clara comemierda vivi casi toda mi vida, y mi familia nunca tuvo ninguna fortuna ni ninguna finca ni carajo&#33; Yo fuy un pobreton oiste, a mi el govierno nunca me dio ni cojones&#33;




If you want to point the finger at somebody, point it at the United States and their inhumane embargo on Cuba. For the past 12 years the U.N has voted for the embargo to be lifted and America refuses to do i

Ahh yes, that mystical myth about the embargo i keep hearing, guess what? the so called embargo doesn&#39;t keep Cuba creating beautiful hotels with buffet restaurants and wonderful paradise resorts for turists.

Yeah keep talking about the USA imperialism, i don&#39;t care im not defending it, what im saying is that Castro and what he has done hasn&#39;t been the best and it hasn&#39;t worked. You all are just supporting Castro because he stands against the USA, you all are just bias and it&#39;s terribly wrong the way you look at things. If Castro was commiting mass genocide i guess you all would support him too, because after all he says "FUCK USA".

Callate comepinga, tu lo que eres un jodio espia del barbudo de mierda ese, asi que tu eres Cubano ehh? No me digas, Cubano viviendo en Miami gosando de lo que te ofrece este pais y diciendo que Fidel es lo maximo, mira comemierda vete pal carajo antes de que te aplaste como la cucaracha que eres so mariconson&#33; A mi nadie me laba el celebro, si no me guio por lo que vivi con mi propia carne y hueso en la mierda aquella&#33;&#33; Tu sabes bien que Castro es un dictador que no a traido nada a mi pais asi que callate maldito traidor , tu lo que eres un traidor a tu patria y a tu gente con el singao ese &#33;

[Knowledge 6 6 6]

You keep thinking the west is so great for &#39;freedom and democracy&#39;. Obviously you have not heard of what the American government did to the Black Panther Party, or what the Canadian government did to Louis Riel - a Metis fighting for native rights...

And you can&#39;t use the embargo to justify the hotels being built - because Cubans don&#39;t have access to those luxuries anyway. If you think America is so great, how come Cuba was beyond backwards under its rule? What about Batista and the atrocities he committed?

You fail to mention any of the good Castro has done for your island, and keep referring back to the &#39;freedom&#39; in the west. I don&#39;t understand what your definition of freedom is, but our political system is so jacked up. You have Conservatives and Liberals fighting for the same things as well as the US. There is no real difference between parties...so if it&#39;s the whole &#39;well, I can elect my leader&#39;...it&#39;s a weak argument because it&#39;s not like there&#39;s a socialist versus a capitalist-type thing. Everyone is pretty much for big business, the only difference really is in the &#39;dedication&#39; to issues...If you understand our politics so well, I cannot understand how you&#39;re defending this &#39;freedom&#39; you speak so highly of.

[Viva Fidel&#33;&#33;]

Originally posted by Revolucion [email protected] 17 2006, 09:14 PM

You&#39;re a gusano fool. You haven&#39;t refuted a single fact from the CTP site, so you fail.

The people involved didn&#39;t stay in a tourist hotel once. They went with work brigades and stayed with Cuba families in their homes. I myself have been there on a work brigade, and again on my own for several months. Neither time did I use a single tourist amenity.

I never said Cuba didn&#39;t have high literacy rate, and low infant mortality and stuff, those are just statistics, like i said funny how you don&#39;t come back and argue what i said about statistically in paper Cuba being = to USA or Western Europe, yet we all know it&#39;s far from.

Asi que estuviste en una brigada estudiantil? Te quedaste con una familia que es parte del CDR lo mas seguro y que tenian cosas que otros cubiches no tienen porque son del partido. Ven aca, y no viste la gente como te miraba? No viste que alguien te pidio por un dolar? No viste la gente que quieren comprar en las shopping pero no pueden porque no tienen dolares?


I don&#39;t support the UN. The UN is full of capitalist and neocolonial countries, and is run in the interests of the imperialists for the most part. That is why their statistics (and those of Latin Business magazine) are so astounding.

Amnesty International says there are 72 political prisoners in Cuba. Cuba of course admits this, but also explains that these 72 people were being paid the imperialists to overthrow the revolution. There is no country in the world that I can enter, under the pay of a foreign government to overthrow the government, and if caught, not go to jail, or worse.

Of course you don&#39;t mention that Cuba is a founding member of the UN Human Rights Commission, and has been elected to it several times (and is on it now&#33;). http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=10472

Ohh yes, how silly of me, if Cuban government says these dissidents where paid by Afrika Bambata and the Zulu Nation that would also make sense :rolleyes:


First of all, it&#39;s not "huge". Visit the Dominican Republic, Costa Rica, the Philippines, Thailand, Indonesia or Brazil and then tell me it&#39;s "huge". It pails in comparison

I have, been to Santo Domingo and Punta Cana, never saw it. Thailand i know is big problem as well as Cambodia.



It&#39;s not like before the revolution when Blacks weren&#39;t allowed to go to the fucking beach...

WHAT&#33;? :blink: That is TOTAL BULLLLLLSHIT&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; I want to hear proof, notes, sites, sources, everything&#33;&#33; that is the most ridiculous thing i have ever HEARD&#33;&#33;&#33;



They could go to school or be trained and get a job that would meet their needs. It&#39;s nothing like the prostitution scenes in other third world (and even imperialist) countries in which prostitutes are mostly drug addicts or mothers who can&#39;t afford to take care of their children

Yeah, do you know the Cuban school system? Apparently no, i hope you know that in Cuba you get your job according to your score in el Pre, and after your out you don&#39;t go back to el Pre. Yes exactly, prostitution in other countries is for drug addicts same as poverty, so which means that the only indication is that the Cuban system sucks it&#39;s not working and people are in desperate needs.


And no one is going with a tourist "for a Pepsi or a Coke". You&#39;re being ridiculous and dishonest.

Im not dishonest, your the one who is, it&#39;s not ridiculous. Of course it&#39;s not for just a Pesi moron, it&#39;s for underware, for shampoo, for colone, for dehoderant, for soap, for clothes&#33;For all the things that are sold in la shopping&#33; and if you really have been to Cuba you know what im talking about.


Revolucion Compadre..i have to agree with what someone said.your a Gusano. im a Cuban-American and you are a Gusano. You say you know about Cuba, but you don&#39;t think that the brothers were terrorists? And you act as if a third world country is going to live like someone from the US. Who if you havent noticed, are almost all white and rich? And you can say what you want, but i have a Grandfather who lives and works for Cuba...and my dad whos here now tells me about Cuba...and i think I&#39;d take their word over yours as would other people. i could go on and on about all your faults...but id rather not...as Jose Marti would call you..GUSANO

You are the most moronic person iv ever met, so your dad is the sole speaker of truth? Me da pena que seas Cubano y que me llames un gusano, de veras que me da pena, ven aca muchachito mocoso, dime, porque tu papito te trajo aqui a este pais? Gusano is a worm, that is Fidel and the supporters, a worm is somebody who doesn&#39;t care about their own people, they are not Cubans. Have you been to Cuba? It was great wasn&#39;t it? Try to have no dollars and then come back and tell me how great it was.



Revolucion compadre.....you are ignorant. Quit your "I came from Cuba" act already. Admit that you were born here in Miami and your family were part of the bourgeois Cubans who left their country because they supported Batista. Admit your family was too greedy to share the wealth with the black cubans that lived en los campos.

The ignorant is you, who doesn&#39;t know shit about Cuba has never been there and you do not know me, yo naci en Villa Clara comemierda vivi casi toda mi vida, y mi familia nunca tuvo ninguna fortuna ni ninguna finca ni carajo&#33; Yo fuy un pobreton oiste, a mi el govierno nunca me dio ni cojones&#33;




If you want to point the finger at somebody, point it at the United States and their inhumane embargo on Cuba. For the past 12 years the U.N has voted for the embargo to be lifted and America refuses to do i

Ahh yes, that mystical myth about the embargo i keep hearing, guess what? the so called embargo doesn&#39;t keep Cuba creating beautiful hotels with buffet restaurants and wonderful paradise resorts for turists.

Yeah keep talking about the USA imperialism, i don&#39;t care im not defending it, what im saying is that Castro and what he has done hasn&#39;t been the best and it hasn&#39;t worked. You all are just supporting Castro because he stands against the USA, you all are just bias and it&#39;s terribly wrong the way you look at things. If Castro was commiting mass genocide i guess you all would support him too, because after all he says "FUCK USA".

Callate comepinga, tu lo que eres un jodio espia del barbudo de mierda ese, asi que tu eres Cubano ehh? No me digas, Cubano viviendo en Miami gosando de lo que te ofrece este pais y diciendo que Fidel es lo maximo, mira comemierda vete pal carajo antes de que te aplaste como la cucaracha que eres so mariconson&#33; A mi nadie me laba el celebro, si no me guio por lo que vivi con mi propia carne y hueso en la mierda aquella&#33;&#33; Tu sabes bien que Castro es un dictador que no a traido nada a mi pais asi que callate maldito traidor , tu lo que eres un traidor a tu patria y a tu gente con el singao ese &#33;
First of all, you are the bias, ignorant, piece of fucking worthless shit. You are not Cuban. The Cubans that live in Cuba and will defend their island to the death are Cuban. The Cubans who refuse to live under the oppression of the United States are Cuban. The Cubans that refuse to live through another dictatorship like that of Fulgencio Batista are real Cubans. Fidel is not a dictator nor an authoritarian. You say he has brought nothing for your country....Please shut your fucking filthy mouth you fucking cabron. Fidel has brought morality to Cuba. I do not support him because he says "fuck usa", I support him for liberating and improving the Cuban society. You may not have enough money (thanks to the embargo), but most of the population is morally correct. The embargo is not a myth you fucking moron. Go eat a book you fucking idiot. Please do me that godamn favor. The embargo abolished trade relations with Cuba and trade relations with anything containing anything from Cuba. Get your fucking facts right you moronic son of a *****. You just don&#39;t loose huh? You can&#39;t admit that Fidel has done good for Cuba. Like I and everybody else has told you, the economy may not be the best, but the people are at their best. THERE ARE NO MAFIA LEADERS FUCKING THE WOMEN&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; THERE ARE NO KING PINS RUNNING DRUG TRADES THROUGH THE ISLAND&#33;&#33;&#33; IF THAT IS A BETTER CUBA THEN YOU HAVE NO FUCKING IDEA WHAT THE WORD BETTER MEANS&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; you are one of those stupid fucks who cares about money. MONEY IS NOTHING BUT A PIECE OF FILTHY FUCKING PAPER&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; Being a doctor isn&#39;t about getting a big check, it is about helping the people. You want to drive a ferrari while the poor have to walk to school, then so be it, America is right for you&#33; I AM A MARXIST&#33; I BELIEVE IN EQUALITY FOR EVERY HUMAN BEING&#33;&#33;&#33; You ask why we think this way, then here is my answer, In our eyes everybody deserves to be equal. Money shouldn&#39;t even exist. Money is what ruins humanity. Money is what ruins morality.

You say the government didn&#39;t give you shit, but I guarantee you they gave you a better education than the one you have been receiving here&#33; Villa Clara huh? That statue of Latin America&#39;s hero must look great standing in all its glory&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

As I have told you before, most of those hotels have been standing there before Fidel&#33; Tourism is the best way for Cuba to actually receive foreign money. You want to bash on Cuba for that?&#33;?&#33;?&#33;? Bash on the rest of Latin America for it, because they build hotels TEN TIMES as luxurious as the ones in Cuba while they have poor people living in straw houses and eating in straw restaurants&#33;

Have you been to the rest of Latin America to compare it? HAVE YOU?&#33;?&#33;?
Cuba is a paradise compared to Mexican cities. Have you gone to Yucatan? Or Mexico City itself? Have you gone to the REAL Dominican Republic? Not Punta Cana, Puerto Plata, or el Capital (which still suffers from poverty) but have you been to Santiago? Higuey? I don&#39;t think so. Have you been to the areas where children are half naked selling fruits on a filthy street corner? I don&#39;t think so&#33; Have you been to Haiti, a place where the gangs run the country?&#33;?&#33;? I DIDN"T FUCKING THINK SO&#33;&#33;&#33;

SO DO ME THE FAVOR AND SHUT YOUR FUCKING MOUTH&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; ENJOY ALL THE FUCKING MONEY YOU HAVE YOU GREEDY SON OF A *****&#33;&#33;&#33; GO TO EL CARAJO&#33;&#33;&#33; SINGADO HIJO DE PUTA&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; CABRON&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; GUSANO&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; VETE PARA LA PINGA COME MIERDA&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; ME?&#33;?&#33;?&#33; THE FIRST THING I AM DOING IS FLYING TO MEXICO AND THEN MIGRATING TO CUBA AS SOON AS I FUCKING COULD&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

:lol: :lol: :lol: I think it is hilarious how you ignore the facts. The embargo is a myth :lol: that is the first time I fucking hear that. The United States has admited that the embargo was made to destroy Castro&#39;s image, which it obviously has, since most of the fucking morons in this country feed in to all the BULLSHIT propaganda it serves on your dinner plate&#33; The embargo has what you call your people LIVING IN POVERTY&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

You think America is freedom? If breaking your back, taking shit, busting your ass, and working 70% of your life so that they can take the money you made back in the form of taxes and bills is freedom, then you have a very twisted thought of freedom.

What the fuck are you doing on this forum anyway? Are you even leftist? It appears to me that you are not&#33; Are you trying to join this forum to change the minds of other leftist? Get the fuck out of here you fucking disgrace. Take your Cuban flag and burn it, BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT CUBAN&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; TU ERES UN SINGADO GUSANO&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; Praise your precious American flag hijo de puta&#33; TE MANDO PARA LA PINGA CON TODOS LOS SINGADOS GUSANOS QUE VIVEN EN LA SINGADA CIUDAD DE MIAMI&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; A place where drugs, gangs, and prostitutes flood the streets. You say there is unity in Little Haiti and Little Havana? What? You mean those ghetto areas where Marquise is best friends with Raulph who sells drugs and fucks his girlfriend behind his back? You mean that Little Havana area where they send todos los valseros who end up being oppressed working for major american corporations? You mean that area where most of the population cleans toilets and the rich homes? You call that freedom? Oh yea, I forgot, Its freedom because they get to buy the new 50 cent cd, that feeds their mind nothing but negativity&#33; Don&#39;t tell me I don&#39;t know shit you prick, YOU ARE THE ONE WHO DOESN&#39;T KNOW SHIT&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

[Solitary Mind]

Originally posted by Viva Fidel&#33;&#33;+Aug 18 2006, 02:12 AM--> (Viva Fidel&#33;&#33; @ Aug 18 2006, 02:12 AM)
Revolucion [email protected] 17 2006, 09:14 PM

You&#39;re a gusano fool. You haven&#39;t refuted a single fact from the CTP site, so you fail.

The people involved didn&#39;t stay in a tourist hotel once. They went with work brigades and stayed with Cuba families in their homes. I myself have been there on a work brigade, and again on my own for several months. Neither time did I use a single tourist amenity.

I never said Cuba didn&#39;t have high literacy rate, and low infant mortality and stuff, those are just statistics, like i said funny how you don&#39;t come back and argue what i said about statistically in paper Cuba being = to USA or Western Europe, yet we all know it&#39;s far from.

Asi que estuviste en una brigada estudiantil? Te quedaste con una familia que es parte del CDR lo mas seguro y que tenian cosas que otros cubiches no tienen porque son del partido. Ven aca, y no viste la gente como te miraba? No viste que alguien te pidio por un dolar? No viste la gente que quieren comprar en las shopping pero no pueden porque no tienen dolares?


I don&#39;t support the UN. The UN is full of capitalist and neocolonial countries, and is run in the interests of the imperialists for the most part. That is why their statistics (and those of Latin Business magazine) are so astounding.

Amnesty International says there are 72 political prisoners in Cuba. Cuba of course admits this, but also explains that these 72 people were being paid the imperialists to overthrow the revolution. There is no country in the world that I can enter, under the pay of a foreign government to overthrow the government, and if caught, not go to jail, or worse.

Of course you don&#39;t mention that Cuba is a founding member of the UN Human Rights Commission, and has been elected to it several times (and is on it now&#33;). http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=10472

Ohh yes, how silly of me, if Cuban government says these dissidents where paid by Afrika Bambata and the Zulu Nation that would also make sense :rolleyes:


First of all, it&#39;s not "huge". Visit the Dominican Republic, Costa Rica, the Philippines, Thailand, Indonesia or Brazil and then tell me it&#39;s "huge". It pails in comparison

I have, been to Santo Domingo and Punta Cana, never saw it. Thailand i know is big problem as well as Cambodia.



It&#39;s not like before the revolution when Blacks weren&#39;t allowed to go to the fucking beach...

WHAT&#33;? :blink: That is TOTAL BULLLLLLSHIT&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; I want to hear proof, notes, sites, sources, everything&#33;&#33; that is the most ridiculous thing i have ever HEARD&#33;&#33;&#33;



They could go to school or be trained and get a job that would meet their needs. It&#39;s nothing like the prostitution scenes in other third world (and even imperialist) countries in which prostitutes are mostly drug addicts or mothers who can&#39;t afford to take care of their children

Yeah, do you know the Cuban school system? Apparently no, i hope you know that in Cuba you get your job according to your score in el Pre, and after your out you don&#39;t go back to el Pre. Yes exactly, prostitution in other countries is for drug addicts same as poverty, so which means that the only indication is that the Cuban system sucks it&#39;s not working and people are in desperate needs.


And no one is going with a tourist "for a Pepsi or a Coke". You&#39;re being ridiculous and dishonest.

Im not dishonest, your the one who is, it&#39;s not ridiculous. Of course it&#39;s not for just a Pesi moron, it&#39;s for underware, for shampoo, for colone, for dehoderant, for soap, for clothes&#33;For all the things that are sold in la shopping&#33; and if you really have been to Cuba you know what im talking about.


Revolucion Compadre..i have to agree with what someone said.your a Gusano. im a Cuban-American and you are a Gusano. You say you know about Cuba, but you don&#39;t think that the brothers were terrorists? And you act as if a third world country is going to live like someone from the US. Who if you havent noticed, are almost all white and rich? And you can say what you want, but i have a Grandfather who lives and works for Cuba...and my dad whos here now tells me about Cuba...and i think I&#39;d take their word over yours as would other people. i could go on and on about all your faults...but id rather not...as Jose Marti would call you..GUSANO

You are the most moronic person iv ever met, so your dad is the sole speaker of truth? Me da pena que seas Cubano y que me llames un gusano, de veras que me da pena, ven aca muchachito mocoso, dime, porque tu papito te trajo aqui a este pais? Gusano is a worm, that is Fidel and the supporters, a worm is somebody who doesn&#39;t care about their own people, they are not Cubans. Have you been to Cuba? It was great wasn&#39;t it? Try to have no dollars and then come back and tell me how great it was.



Revolucion compadre.....you are ignorant. Quit your "I came from Cuba" act already. Admit that you were born here in Miami and your family were part of the bourgeois Cubans who left their country because they supported Batista. Admit your family was too greedy to share the wealth with the black cubans that lived en los campos.

The ignorant is you, who doesn&#39;t know shit about Cuba has never been there and you do not know me, yo naci en Villa Clara comemierda vivi casi toda mi vida, y mi familia nunca tuvo ninguna fortuna ni ninguna finca ni carajo&#33; Yo fuy un pobreton oiste, a mi el govierno nunca me dio ni cojones&#33;




If you want to point the finger at somebody, point it at the United States and their inhumane embargo on Cuba. For the past 12 years the U.N has voted for the embargo to be lifted and America refuses to do i

Ahh yes, that mystical myth about the embargo i keep hearing, guess what? the so called embargo doesn&#39;t keep Cuba creating beautiful hotels with buffet restaurants and wonderful paradise resorts for turists.

Yeah keep talking about the USA imperialism, i don&#39;t care im not defending it, what im saying is that Castro and what he has done hasn&#39;t been the best and it hasn&#39;t worked. You all are just supporting Castro because he stands against the USA, you all are just bias and it&#39;s terribly wrong the way you look at things. If Castro was commiting mass genocide i guess you all would support him too, because after all he says "FUCK USA".

Callate comepinga, tu lo que eres un jodio espia del barbudo de mierda ese, asi que tu eres Cubano ehh? No me digas, Cubano viviendo en Miami gosando de lo que te ofrece este pais y diciendo que Fidel es lo maximo, mira comemierda vete pal carajo antes de que te aplaste como la cucaracha que eres so mariconson&#33; A mi nadie me laba el celebro, si no me guio por lo que vivi con mi propia carne y hueso en la mierda aquella&#33;&#33; Tu sabes bien que Castro es un dictador que no a traido nada a mi pais asi que callate maldito traidor , tu lo que eres un traidor a tu patria y a tu gente con el singao ese &#33;
First of all, you are the bias, ignorant, piece of fucking worthless shit. You are not Cuban. The Cubans that live in Cuba and will defend their island to the death are Cuban. The Cubans who refuse to live under the oppression of the United States are Cuban. The Cubans that refuse to live through another dictatorship like that of Fulgencio Batista are real Cubans. Fidel is not a dictator nor an authoritarian. You say he has brought nothing for your country....Please shut your fucking filthy mouth you fucking cabron. Fidel has brought morality to Cuba. I do not support him because he says "fuck usa", I support him for liberating and improving the Cuban society. You may not have enough money (thanks to the embargo), but most of the population is morally correct. The embargo is not a myth you fucking moron. Go eat a book you fucking idiot. Please do me that godamn favor. The embargo abolished trade relations with Cuba and trade relations with anything containing anything from Cuba. Get your fucking facts right you moronic son of a *****. You just don&#39;t loose huh? You can&#39;t admit that Fidel has done good for Cuba. Like I and everybody else has told you, the economy may not be the best, but the people are at their best. THERE ARE NO MAFIA LEADERS FUCKING THE WOMEN&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; THERE ARE NO KING PINS RUNNING DRUG TRADES THROUGH THE ISLAND&#33;&#33;&#33; IF THAT IS A BETTER CUBA THEN YOU HAVE NO FUCKING IDEA WHAT THE WORD BETTER MEANS&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; you are one of those stupid fucks who cares about money. MONEY IS NOTHING BUT A PIECE OF FILTHY FUCKING PAPER&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; Being a doctor isn&#39;t about getting a big check, it is about helping the people. You want to drive a ferrari while the poor have to walk to school, then so be it, America is right for you&#33; I AM A MARXIST&#33; I BELIEVE IN EQUALITY FOR EVERY HUMAN BEING&#33;&#33;&#33; You ask why we think this way, then here is my answer, In our eyes everybody deserves to be equal. Money shouldn&#39;t even exist. Money is what ruins humanity. Money is what ruins morality.

You say the government didn&#39;t give you shit, but I guarantee you they gave you a better education than the one you have been receiving here&#33; Villa Clara huh? That statue of Latin America&#39;s hero must look great standing in all its glory&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

As I have told you before, most of those hotels have been standing there before Fidel&#33; Tourism is the best way for Cuba to actually receive foreign money. You want to bash on Cuba for that?&#33;?&#33;?&#33;? Bash on the rest of Latin America for it, because they build hotels TEN TIMES as luxurious as the ones in Cuba while they have poor people living in straw houses and eating in straw restaurants&#33;

Have you been to the rest of Latin America to compare it? HAVE YOU?&#33;?&#33;?
Cuba is a paradise compared to Mexican cities. Have you gone to Yucatan? Or Mexico City itself? Have you gone to the REAL Dominican Republic? Not Punta Cana, Puerto Plata, or el Capital (which still suffers from poverty) but have you been to Santiago? Higuey? I don&#39;t think so. Have you been to the areas where children are half naked selling fruits on a filthy street corner? I don&#39;t think so&#33; Have you been to Haiti, a place where the gangs run the country?&#33;?&#33;? I DIDN"T FUCKING THINK SO&#33;&#33;&#33;

SO DO ME THE FAVOR AND SHUT YOUR FUCKING MOUTH&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; ENJOY ALL THE FUCKING MONEY YOU HAVE YOU GREEDY SON OF A *****&#33;&#33;&#33; GO TO EL CARAJO&#33;&#33;&#33; SINGADO HIJO DE PUTA&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; CABRON&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; GUSANO&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; VETE PARA LA PINGA COME MIERDA&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; ME?&#33;?&#33;?&#33; THE FIRST THING I AM DOING IS FLYING TO MEXICO AND THEN MIGRATING TO CUBA AS SOON AS I FUCKING COULD&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

:lol: :lol: :lol: I think it is hilarious how you ignore the facts. The embargo is a myth :lol: that is the first time I fucking hear that. The United States has admited that the embargo was made to destroy Castro&#39;s image, which it obviously has, since most of the fucking morons in this country feed in to all the BULLSHIT propaganda it serves on your dinner plate&#33; The embargo has what you call your people LIVING IN POVERTY&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

You think America is freedom? If breaking your back, taking shit, busting your ass, and working 70% of your life so that they can take the money you made back in the form of taxes and bills is freedom, then you have a very twisted thought of freedom.

What the fuck are you doing on this forum anyway? Are you even leftist? It appears to me that you are not&#33; Are you trying to join this forum to change the minds of other leftist? Get the fuck out of here you fucking disgrace. Take your Cuban flag and burn it, BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT CUBAN&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; TU ERES UN SINGADO GUSANO&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; Praise your precious American flag hijo de puta&#33; TE MANDO PARA LA PINGA CON TODOS LOS SINGADOS GUSANOS QUE VIVEN EN LA SINGADA CIUDAD DE MIAMI&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; A place where drugs, gangs, and prostitutes flood the streets. You say there is unity in Little Haiti and Little Havana? What? You mean those ghetto areas where Marquise is best friends with Raulph who sells drugs and fucks his girlfriend behind his back? You mean that Little Havana area where they send todos los valseros who end up being oppressed working for major american corporations? You mean that area where most of the population cleans toilets and the rich homes? You call that freedom? Oh yea, I forgot, Its freedom because they get to buy the new 50 cent cd, that feeds their mind nothing but negativity&#33; Don&#39;t tell me I don&#39;t know shit you prick, YOU ARE THE ONE WHO DOESN&#39;T KNOW SHIT&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; [/b]
... :o ......that was truly awsome comrade...touching...harsh..but touching...

[Revolucion Compadre]

Well if i got 2 warnings for flaming, then VIVA FIDEL should get like banned for his post which was pretty much 95% flaming against me, does any mod take note of this or just going to let it pass? Whatever, listen VIVA FIDEL tu no vales nada para mi, i have made my points which you have not refuted, saying Cuba is great and im an ignorant who has to read i guess should convince me :rolleyes:

You took your time to attack me instead of making any sense, but hey everyones character comes out once in a while.

All i can say is im the one who was borned in Cuba who lived there, can you say that? THAN SHUT YOUR MOUTH&#33;&#33;&#33;

If you have balls go to Cuba, and live there. That&#39;s what i thought.

[which doctor]

Originally posted by Revolucion [email protected] 17 2006, 10:40 PM
All i can say is im the one who was borned in Cuba who lived there, can you say that? THAN SHUT YOUR MOUTH&#33;&#33;&#33;

If you have balls go to Cuba, and live there. That&#39;s what i thought.
I&#39;m just curious on your background with Cuba.

How old were you when you left? Where did you leave too?

[Revolucion Compadre]

I was 10 now im 19. Have been back several times.

Have been an avid traveler since, thanks to my new found freedom. I have lived in USA ever since Fist of Blood.

[Avtomatov]

revolution compadre. When they say the literacy rate is 100% This is rounded. Of course there will be a few who are illiterate. But 100% meens the literacy rate is 99.5% or higher. This is extremely good.

Also the people in cuba will not be any better off in a capitalist system. Which will probably happen if USA style democracy is established. Do you know why? It is because candidates will be funded by corporations, they will campaign with that money. The new USA style democracy will only serve corporate interests. This is what USA style democracy has been designed to do.

In capitalism the cuban people will be even worse off. Wealth will become concentrated in the hands of a few. Probably not people like you 10 years ago. Unless your parents where business people.

[Wanted Man]

Viva Fidel&#33;&#33; wins the badass award. Permanently.

[Avtomatov]

The only thing Cuba has is good amount of doctors and everything is free, but there is lack of medical equipment, lack of medicines, lack of everything

Do you really think getting rid of castro is going to fix that? It isnt castro and the socialist system that causes that. In reality castro and socialism has helped alleviate that.

If Cuba becomes a USA style democracy and a capitalist country, these things will only get worse.

Rich capitalists from america will not give you medical equipment, they will not give you medicines or anything else. They will take Cubas resources and bring them back to the United States and buy private jets and caviar and bling bling for themselves not the people, just like they do to every other country. Its really important that you understand this.

[rebolusyonaryo]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2006, 04:43 AM

The only thing Cuba has is good amount of doctors and everything is free, but there is lack of medical equipment, lack of medicines, lack of everything

Do you really think getting rid of castro is going to fix that? It isnt castro and the socialist system that causes that. In reality castro and socialism has helped alleviate that.

If Cuba becomes a USA style democracy and a capitalist country, these things will only get worse.

Rich capitalists from america will not give you medical equipment, they will not give you medicines or anything else. They will take Cubas resources and bring them back to the United States and buy private jets and caviar and bling bling for themselves not the people, just like they do to every other country. Its really important that you understand this.
true enough.. but the question is, how will you solve it? How can Cuba get the resources it needs wherein fact it is only the US, the world&#39;s biggest economy, who provides such?

[Briseño]

Revolucion Compadre Just pmed me saying so much crap for being a supporter of Fidel :D ....people these days

[VukBZ2005]

Originally posted by rebolusyonaryo+Aug 18 2006, 01:19 AM--> (rebolusyonaryo @ Aug 18 2006, 01:19 AM)
[email protected] 18 2006, 04:43 AM

The only thing Cuba has is good amount of doctors and everything is free, but there is lack of medical equipment, lack of medicines, lack of everything

Do you really think getting rid of castro is going to fix that? It isnt castro and the socialist system that causes that. In reality castro and socialism has helped alleviate that.

If Cuba becomes a USA style democracy and a capitalist country, these things will only get worse.

Rich capitalists from america will not give you medical equipment, they will not give you medicines or anything else. They will take Cubas resources and bring them back to the United States and buy private jets and caviar and bling bling for themselves not the people, just like they do to every other country. Its really important that you understand this.
true enough.. but the question is, how will you solve it? How can Cuba get the resources it needs wherein fact it is only the US, the world&#39;s biggest economy, who provides such? [/b]
If by resources meaning the resources Cuba needs to industrialize and grow, Cuba can obtain those resources from China and Venezuela, which has coal, oil and iron.

[Avtomatov]

Yes I beleive china is a much better trade partner to have, in the long term i meen.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

Because?

[Avtomatov]

Because it will surpass the United States in gdp someday. And if you want to do trade with the USA you cant go against their wishes. China is less picky about that.

[Solitary Mind]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2006, 04:34 AM
Viva Fidel&#33;&#33; wins the badass award. Permanently.
Agreed...although ill kick him in the nuts tomorrow just to be able to say i kicked a badass in the nuts :D ..Viva..this is a warning to you..when i see you at the mall...wear a cup..and he is also very right on everything he said. Revolucion Compadre unfortunatly doesn&#39;t know much about his own country, and instead joins the small amount of people(in comparison to cuba) in the US against the Cuban system altogether... -_- gusanos...

[Solitary Mind]

Originally posted by Briseñ[email protected] 18 2006, 06:55 AM
Revolucion Compadre Just pmed me saying so much crap for being a supporter of Fidel :D ....people these days
it&#39;s ok, he has pmed me also...trying to change my mind i suppose? oh well, let him waste his time..it wont work...when your a gusano who doesnt know about the country you lived in...your not gonna change anyones mind

[Viva Fidel&#33;&#33;]

Revolucion Compadre, I did make perfect sense. I&#39;m sure everybody in this forum can agree with me. You pissed me off on your last post before I posted and I went off on you.

All I am saying is that you should stop blaming Fidel and his socialist system for everything. Its fucking pathetic.

[eyeswideopen]

You all just argue, you don&#39;t even read what others have to say. You&#39;re too blinded and thirsty to be right and to prove your point you don&#39;t see that another might be right. This is gay. If this nigga says he&#39;s lived in Cuba and he&#39;s seen how Fidel&#39;s version of communism failed, then he&#39;s not just saying that (not to mention the thousands that probably agree with him). For all you others, defend your ideals, not Fidel, he&#39;s not communism, he&#39;s just a failed attempt of it. THINK.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

when your a gusano who doesnt know about the country you lived in...your not gonna change anyones mind


Now you are just being stupid. Revolucion Compadre was born in Cuba and has spent most of his life in Cuba. Have you?

[Solitary Mind]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2006, 09:51 AM

when your a gusano who doesnt know about the country you lived in...your not gonna change anyones mind


Now you are just being stupid. Revolucion Compadre was born in Cuba and has spent most of his life in Cuba. Have you?
NWOG he came he was 10 years old, how much did you know about your government at 10 years old? And if you want to get into age, again, i would gadly take what my Dad who lives there for 20 somethings years says over him, or what my grandfather who lives there NOW says. And that&#39;s like saying all US people know more about the US than anyone else, when truth is, alot of people from other countries know more about this country than its own citizens.

So don&#39;t speak on who&#39;s stupid when your argument has no point because people from other countries know more about the US than half its citizens, and he left when he was 10, my dad at 20 something and my grandfather still lives there, who is going to have the better understanding? Maybe you should reconsider who the &#39;Stupid&#39; one is.

[Viva Fidel&#33;&#33;]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2006, 08:07 AM
You all just argue, you don&#39;t even read what others have to say. You&#39;re too blinded and thirsty to be right and to prove your point you don&#39;t see that another might be right. This is gay. If this nigga says he&#39;s lived in Cuba and he&#39;s seen how Fidel&#39;s version of communism failed, then he&#39;s not just saying that (not to mention the thousands that probably agree with him). For all you others, defend your ideals, not Fidel, he&#39;s not communism, he&#39;s just a failed attempt of it. THINK.
Hmmm saying this is "gay" and calling your fuck buddy a "nigga" my guess is that you are from Miami and live 3 blocks down from this gusano. He did live in Cuba, and I never denied he faced poverty (although life in Cuba is much better than life in mexican, dominican, haitian, colombian, peruvian, and jamaican poverty). I am just saying that he is pointing the finger at Fidel for everything, while Fidel has done more than alot for Cuba. How about you open your eyes to how the United States hates Fidel because he is not for American interest. He is not a U.S puppet unlike most of the presidents that run other Latin American countries. Fidel broke the 500 years of oppression in Cuba. Does the U.S love him for liberating his people from that? No, so they fuck Cuba over with an embargo.

People complain, before we had the newest t.v&#39;s, cars, etc. etc. and then Fidel came....you are wrong....then the embargo was placed on Cuba. Fidel did not wish to end trade relations with the U.S. Look this date up Feburary 12th 1964. Fidel sent Linda Howard a verbal message (asking her to notify president Johnson) stating that he wants to fix things with the U.S. But they just denied his request. The same way they are ignoring Raul right now. Raul is asking for the U.S to fix its problems with Cuba, but they are ignoring him.

All that I am saying is for you to stick your finger up your ass and quit pointing it at Fidel.

[Viva Fidel&#33;&#33;]

Better yet here is the message itself from www.historyofcuba.com


Verbal message given to Lisa Howard of ABC News on February 12, 1964 in Havana, Cuba. Howard is unable to deliver the message directly to President Johnson; eventually she gives it to Adlai Stevenson at the United Nations.

1. Please tell President Johnson that I earnestly desire his election to the Presidency in November… though that appears assured. But if there is anything I can do to add to his majority (aside from retiring from politics), I shall be happy to cooperate. Seriously, I observe how the Republicans use Cuba as a weapon against the Democrats. So tell President Johnson to let me know what I can do, if anything. Naturally, I know that my offer of assistance would be of immense value to the Republicans - so this would remain our secret. But if the President wishes to pass word to me he can do so through you [Lisa Howard]. He must know that he can trust you; and I know that I can trust you to relay a message accurately.

2. If the President feels it necessary during the campaign to make bellicose statements about Cuba or even to take some hostile action - if he will inform me, unofficially, that a specific action is required because of domestic political considerations, I shall understand and not take any serious retaliatory action.

3. Tell the President that I understand quite well how much political courage it took for President Kennedy to instruct you [Lisa Howard] and Ambassador Attwood to phone my aide in Havana for the purpose of commencing a dialogue toward a settlement of our differences. Ambassador Attwood suggested that I prepare an agenda for such talks and send the agenda to my U.N. Ambassador. That was on November 18th. The agenda was being prepared when word arrived that President Kennedy was assassinated. I hope that we can soon continue where Ambassador Attwood&#39;s phone conversation to Havana left off… though I&#39;m aware that pre-electoral political considerations may delay this approach until after November.

4. Tell the President (and I cannot stress this too strongly) that I seriously hope that Cuba and the United states can eventually respect and negotiate our differences. I believe that there are no areas of contention between us that cannot be discussed and settled within a climate of mutual understanding. But first, of course, it is necessary to discuss our differences. I now believe that this hostility between Cuba and the United States is both unnatural and unnecessary - and it can be eliminated.

5. Tell the President he should not interpret my conciliatory attitude, my desire for discussions as a sign of weakness. Such an interpretation would be a serious miscalculation. We are not weak… the Revolution is strong… very strong. Nothing, absolutely nothing that the Untied States can do will destroy the Revolution. Yes, we are strong. And it is from this position of strength that we wish to resolve our differences with the United States and to live in peace with all the nations of the world.

6. Tell the president I realize fully the need for absolute secrecy, if he should decide to continue the Kennedy approach. I revealed nothing at that time… I have revealed nothing since… I would reveal nothing now.

[Solitary Mind]

You all just argue, you don&#39;t even read what others have to say. You&#39;re too blinded and thirsty to be right and to prove your point you don&#39;t see that another might be right. This is gay. If this nigga says he&#39;s lived in Cuba and he&#39;s seen how Fidel&#39;s version of communism failed, then he&#39;s not just saying that (not to mention the thousands that probably agree with him)

Thousands here or MILLIONS in Cuba? :rolleyes: ...And again, i doubt at 10 years old he had clear understanding of Cuba, not to mention he believes

1. The Brothers Weren&#39;t Terrorists ( :lol: )
2. The Embargo Is A Myth And Truthfully Doesn&#39;t Even hurt Cubas Economy(Radio Gusano...excuse me Mambi is more influencial then i thought.)

I do read what he says, you should read my posts where i make counter-points to his points. Alot of what he says he can&#39;t back up though, and claims to know about Cuba than a 60 year old man, when he came here at 10 years old?

[Kastaneda]

I know 2 people who have lived there for a number of years, and who would definitely define it as a true hell hole (entire families prostituting themselves on the main streets of Havana for food). Keep in mind, that as foreigners with special status they enjoyed certain privileges not accessible to most Cubans other than the privileged governing clique (creating a privileged class, an oligarchy, seems to be one of the cruelest and most ironic realities of any attempt to establish a communist regime), and were still appalled by Cuba’s poverty and misery.

[Kastaneda]

I read somewhere, that pre-communist Cuba had the second-highest living standard in Latin America. Maybe that&#39;s where the notion of a paradise-country comes from.

[Kastaneda]

Sorry, for the multiple replies, but I had to add that I think this dichotomy of Cuba, the shithole, vs. Cuba, the paradise, is further caused by Castro allowing foreign investments into the country along with him expanding Cuba’s tourist industry.

In one of his speeches, he also promotes the charms of the Cuban women and Cuba’s prostitution declaring that Cuba has very low incidence of AIDS. Cuba has become one of the world’s famous sex spots.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

I read somewhere, that pre-communist Cuba had the second-highest living standard in Latin America.

You could look at how many cars there are per person, how many televisions per person and so on. But it doesn&#39;t really mean much in a society where an elite has so much and where the common man (or woman) live on oh so little.

The exile-cubans claim that in Cuba there was some 50 newspapers. But how relevant is this, when some 23 percent of the population (50 percent in rural areas) could not read or write?


In one of his speeches, he also promotes the charms of the Cuban women and Cuba’s prostitution declaring that Cuba has very low incidence of AIDS. Cuba has become one of the world’s famous sex spots.
I think this is a misunderstanding. Low incidence of AIDS is often attributed to "advanced nations" and as such Castro probably wanted to show that despite being a third world country, the regime has done so much for the country.

If I recall correctly, the government have been putting a relatively hard line on the jineteras.


and were still appalled by Cuba’s poverty and misery.

Of course. Cuba is quite different in terms of "living standards". It&#39;s like the Cubans say "No es fácil" (it&#39;s not easy). If those two people had gone in the early 90&#39;s they would&#39;ve probably been even more shocked. The situation was really fucked up. Now it&#39;s more like "oh okay quite a few things are fucked up but far from everything".

Cuba still is quite good compared to traditional third world standards, yet Cuba have a long way to go and there are many problems, a lot of it connected to the special period, but not everything. We shouldn&#39;t be afraid to criticize and point out the difficulties and problems.

[eyeswideopen]

Fidel is a failed communism.

[Solitary Mind]

NWOG.....and good post....good job...lol...and eyeswideopen...Fidel doesn&#39;t claim Cuba is communist...he actually said in reply to the united states wanting transition that Cuba WAS in transition "to socialism, to communism"

[Kastaneda]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2006, 03:27 PM
Fidel is a failed communism.


And communism has succeeded where?
I have read little about Fidel. From what I’ve read, I gathered he was just an opportunist using the communist ideology as a vessel to seize power and following (he was actually from a privileged background). Unlike the demented Lenin he could give shit about the ideology.

[Solitary Mind]

Originally posted by Kastaneda+Aug 20 2006, 04:34 PM--> (Kastaneda &#064; Aug 20 2006, 04:34 PM)
[email protected] 20 2006, 03:27 PM
Fidel is a failed communism.


And communism has succeeded where?
I have read little about Fidel. From what I’ve read, I gathered he was just an opportunist using the communist ideology as a vessel to seize power and following (he was actually from a privileged background). Unlike the demented Lenin he could give shit about the ideology. [/b]
Where did you gather this &#39;reliable&#39; information from? Everyone knows he was from a privileged background, does that somehow make it impossible to care for the poor, or for people of other races? If you haven&#39;t noticed, Before Castro, racism filled the country and Blacks were treated as second class citizens (as were women), now they aren&#39;t. If your from Miami, please, Radio Mambi isn&#39;t a good source, if your not from Miami, i love to see where you got your information that by the way is total bullshit.



And if he didn&#39;t care about the ideology, then he wouldn&#39;t have used it in the first place. The Cuban Revolution at first was not pushed as a Socialist Revolution, and Castro didn&#39;t claim Cuba as communist at first. He claimed to be friendly towards communist, already when he had power, why would he immediatly adapt an ideology for power and following when he already had both? and to claim himself communist would&#39;ve LOST him support (as evident by the cuban exiles in the US), so him using it for power and a following makes no sense, he had both, by aligning with communism, he lost support and some of his following.

So....any arguments that you can back up and/or make ANY sense whatsoever?

[Karl Marx's Camel]

NWOG.....and good post....good job

Thanks


and to claim himself communist would&#39;ve LOST him support (as evident by the cuban exiles in the US), so him using it for power and a following makes no sense, he had both, by aligning with communism, he lost support and some of his following.

Truth.

Paul M. Sweezy and Leo Huberman in one of their books, quoted a privat U.S. corporation doing opinion polls, which basically showed (if I recall correctly) that something like 90 percent of the Cuban popluation supported the newly established regime and the revolution, either moderately or intensely. I think this was in 1959 or early 1960 (again I could be slightly wrong here, but it was around that period).

After it became more and more evident that Cuba was going to adopt a more leninist way and become closer aligned to Eastern Europe and leninist nations elsewhere, Paul and Leo estimated (again if I recall correctly) that as much as 30 percent of Fidel&#39;s followers turned more or less against him. If they were not opposed to him and the newly established regime, they were at least more reserved and basically thrown in the "neutral" camp.

The Cuban people at that time was generally heavily anti-communist (due to mostly propaganda, but I also imagine partly because Cubans had heard about the not so comforting stories about life in Eastern Europe and elsewhere (real or fabricated)).

Even today there are a lot of people on the island who say "I support the progressive steps taken by the government, but I don&#39;t agree with the implementation of leninism".

So really, me neither can see a clear motive for Castro to use marxism-leninism for opportunistic purposes.

If I recall correctly, as soon as 1959 the newly established government worked on creating an insurgency in the Dominican Republic against Rafael Leónidas Trujillo. And Fidel participated in organizations who wanted to overthrow Trujillo and rulers similar to him long before the war against Batista began. The internationalism of Fidel has also been evident in the general military involvement of Cuba from the start of the regime in 1959 to the end of the cold war, when Cuba proceeded more heavily to export doctors than before.

[Ol' Dirty]

Though Castro is a dictator, he really has to be&#33; He has the United States of America only hundreds of miles off his coast, a country that is constantly attempted to disrupt the goverment progams in place in Cuba, threatened attacks on Cuba, and even attempted coups on Castro, ixs not direct attempts on his life.

Really, supporting Cuba is a rather good idea.

[Solitary Mind]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2006, 10:05 PM
Though Castro is an extreme dictator, he really has to be&#33; He has the United States of America only hundreds of miles off his coast, a country that is constantly attempted to disrupt the goverment progams in place in Cuba, threatened attacks on Cuba, and even attempted coups on Castro, ixs not direct attempts on his life.

Really, supporting Cuba is a rather good idea.
Although i disagree that he is an EXTREME dictator, it relieves me to finally see someone agrees that even if he was a dictator, that it is justifiable because of some of the things you mentioned

[Kuma]

Hey everyone, I thought I would post in this topic, because for me it hits close to home.

I myself am Cuban, and have lived in cuba for most of my life. I have to say that some things that Revolucion Compadre have said are quite true, about the not getting you food and the situation with dollars. However, Cuba is infact a very just nation, at least from what I have experienced. Back before, Blacks and Mulattos were looked down upon and had little rights, which was the case with my family. I think that Revolucion Compadre is infact a Gusano, and probably is form Miami, as most Cubans in Cuba that I have met support El Commandante. Fidel Castro is not evil, infact he has done many good things for Cuba and made it into a nation, not a vaction spot for the rich. In my opinion , Cuba is a good place to live when compared to other countries in Latin America and the Carribean. Also, Cuba is not a place where you have to worry about being fired from your job by a corporate Bigwig, and where you dont feel like you have to compete with your neighbor and feel a huge sense of greed. Sure, the black market is very rampant, but this is natural because Cuba cannot get everything it needs because of the embargo, and also because Cuba&#39;s food system is based on NEED not DESIRE. My 2 cents.

[Leif]

A honest opinion from a Cuban living in Cuba, thank you very much Kuma.

I believe that the moment Amerika is no longer a proto-Fascist Empire, then Cuba will be able to hold more elections, however in the mean-time, a behind closed doors is unfortunetly one of the only ways the nation can continue to exist.

One nation at a time we will destroy the idea of nations.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

Though Castro is an extreme dictator, he really has to be&#33; He has the United States of America only hundreds of miles off his coast, a country that is constantly attempted to disrupt the goverment progams in place in Cuba, threatened attacks on Cuba, and even attempted coups on Castro, ixs not direct attempts on his life.


[I think we are moving more towards opinions here...]

I&#39;d disagree on the notion that he is an "extreme" dictator.

I&#39;d also disagree on the notion that he has to be a dictator. Yes, he might provide stability while he is alive, but just look at how it is now when he is sick. And imagine how it will be when he is dead. People are very worried about the situation, and a lot of Cubans are unsure where Cuba is going.

That even the government now brags "look at us, we had a regime change, we switched out Fidel, and there was no riots or turmoil", is not a good sign.

Dictators, no matter how good they might be, their rule tend to be quite fragile. It just doesn&#39;t show until the last minute of its existence. Nations or empires who have been built on one man have a bad tendency to fall after the death or illness of that very same man.

But as for multiparty democracy, we have seen how bad it has worked before the revolution, and in nations like Jamaica. It&#39;s basically a show. It&#39;s probably not something Cuba should look for at once. Maybe not at all.

So much ranting, anwyays....

IMO, What would help the situation was if, little by little, the press would have a little more room to criticize, people could speak a little more freely, and people would have a little more room to decide where the nation is going, and so on.

Cubans can criticize economic problems and such without problems, and debates can be quite fresh but people have to keep in mind not to criticize Fidel, his revolution, or advocate multiparty democracy. Hopefully, maybe in the future, people can speak freely in general, too.

[KC]

Cubans can criticize economic problems and such without problems, and debates can be quite fresh but people have to keep in mind not to criticize Fidel, his revolution, or advocate multiparty democracy. Hopefully, maybe in the future, people can speak freely in general, too.

1. People can criticize Fidel.
2. People can criticze the revolution.
3. Advocating multi-party democracy is like saying that the bourgeoisie should get the island back. You&#39;re advocating the entering into the political field of bourgeois political parties. You&#39;re fucking crazy.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

1. People can criticize Fidel.
2. People can criticze the revolution.

People could yell "fuck Hitler" in Germany 1941 too, but they would probably be shot. So you could criticize the goverment in Germany too,but you would have to be willing to take the bullet. This is an extreme example, but what I want to illustrate is that of course people can criticize, everyone can. The real question is; Can people criticize without problems, or without fear of problems?

Are you saying people can criticize Fidel, the Communist Party and the revolution without problems?


3. Advocating multi-party democracy is like saying that the bourgeoisie should get the island back.

And how is that? Because the people will elect bourgeoisie-friendly parties?

On a side note, do you believe that advocating a continuation of multiparty democracy in Venezuela is the same as advocating a continuation of bourgeoisie dominance in Venezuela?

[Avtomatov]

And how is that? Because the people will elect bourgeoisie-friendly parties?

Yes they will, because the parties will be funded by business intirests. The propaganda will be business intirests. Most cuban communists cant afford to fund parties. There will be no communist propaganda.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

Yes they will, because the parties will be funded by business intirests. The propaganda will be business intirests. Most cuban communists cant afford to fund parties. There will be no communist propaganda.

One could keep all the parties in check, making sure every party with a fair amount of voters will all get equal representation.

One could create laws which says that it is illegal for parties to receive economic support from foreign nations or business.

[Avtomatov]

yes but then the other organizations(asides from parties) can still receive funding from foreigners. They can use that for pro-capitalist/right wing propaganda.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

yes but then the other organizations(asides from parties) can still receive funding from foreigners. They can use that for pro-capitalist/right wing propaganda.

What kind of organizations?

Propaganda on all sides can be outlawed, or severely restricted you know.

[Morpheus]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21 2006, 05:51 PM
yes but then the other organizations(asides from parties) can still receive funding from foreigners. They can use that for pro-capitalist/right wing propaganda.
You can outlaw that, too. Or you could just have two communist parties (and no other parties), the same way the US has two capitalist parties, and this would create the illusion that Cuba is a democracy while undermining US criticism of Cuban dicatorship (since it would be the same type of dictatorship the US has).

[Solitary Mind]

Avtomatov has a point, and while NWOG and Morpheus also have points, those things might be complicated....

[Avtomatov]

also nwog banning propaganda from capitalist organization which arent parties, maybe independant people or groups or tv stations/radio stations. This would be restricting free speech even more then now. And dont you also complain about cubas lack of free speech. You just couldnt do it because to be fair you would have to ban all media including communist media. Where would people get there news. Propaganda is mixed with news.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

Or you could just have two communist parties (and no other parties), the same way the US has two capitalist parties, and this would create the illusion that Cuba is a democracy while undermining US criticism of Cuban dicatorship (since it would be the same type of dictatorship the US has).

There are a lot of parties in the U.S.

It&#39;s just that the Democratic party and the Republican Party are the largest.

Here&#39;s a list:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_par...e_United_States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_parties_of_the_United_States)


also nwog banning propaganda from capitalist organization which arent parties, maybe independant people or groups or tv stations/radio stations.

I don&#39;t see how that is a coherent sentence... :mellow:

Anyways, all media is biased. What one can do however, is to reduce the bias. I don&#39;t think one can ever remove it, though.

What one can do is to set up a law that says media can never be owned by a capitalist class and work on making that into the consitution. In any case media has to much power to be trusted to private persons.

So how to make things as evenly as possible?
Say there is a small country named Balkistan.

In Balkistan, there are 3 parties that have over 600,000 members. Then there are 7 additional parties that goes over a 300,000 membership boundary.

And there is a media office. Under this office, all newspapers, TV stations are subordinated. There are so and so many papers, and so and so many TV stations. In total there are room for 824 journalists etc. in the media office. These are 824 seats which are distributed among the political parties.


So all 3 large parties will get 25 percent of the journalist seats each. That means 75 percent of the journalist will belong to the most popular parties.

Then the remaining 25 percent of the seats will be evenly distributed among the parties that have crossed the 300,000 limit.

Maybe some seats should be reserved for "independent" people. For example there are some in real life who have started out making a website and have become popular independent journalists and news writers, columnists and so on. And maybe 8 seats would be reserved for these "up and coming people" which the public is interested in.

Doesn&#39;t this sound pretty fair and democratic?

[Viva Fidel&#33;&#33;]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21 2006, 05:41 AM
Hey everyone, I thought I would post in this topic, because for me it hits close to home.

I myself am Cuban, and have lived in cuba for most of my life. I have to say that some things that Revolucion Compadre have said are quite true, about the not getting you food and the situation with dollars. However, Cuba is infact a very just nation, at least from what I have experienced. Back before, Blacks and Mulattos were looked down upon and had little rights, which was the case with my family. I think that Revolucion Compadre is infact a Gusano, and probably is form Miami, as most Cubans in Cuba that I have met support El Commandante. Fidel Castro is not evil, infact he has done many good things for Cuba and made it into a nation, not a vaction spot for the rich. In my opinion , Cuba is a good place to live when compared to other countries in Latin America and the Carribean. Also, Cuba is not a place where you have to worry about being fired from your job by a corporate Bigwig, and where you dont feel like you have to compete with your neighbor and feel a huge sense of greed. Sure, the black market is very rampant, but this is natural because Cuba cannot get everything it needs because of the embargo, and also because Cuba&#39;s food system is based on NEED not DESIRE. My 2 cents.
Notice how Revolucion Compadre quit posting. I agree with this individual.

[eyeswideopen]

Originally posted by Viva Fidel&#33;&#33;@Aug 22 2006, 08:46 PM
[In my opinion , Cuba is a good place to live when compared to other countries in Latin America and the Carribean.
And you know this how? With your extensive traveling to our countries in South America? ooh, wait that&#39;s right, you haven&#39;t because Fidel doesn&#39;t allow it, he won&#39;t allow people to leave the land. DANG. I know a couple places like that, islands that didn&#39;t allow people that inhabited them to leave. what were their names? hmm...oh yeah, Alcatraz and Gorgona.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

Notice how Revolucion Compadre quit posting.

Uh yeah, because he is banned. :rolleyes:

[RevolutionaryMarxist]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2006, 04:27 AM

And you know this how? With your extensive traveling to our countries in South America? ooh, wait that&#39;s right, you haven&#39;t because Fidel doesn&#39;t allow it, he won&#39;t allow people to leave the land. DANG. I know a couple places like that, islands that didn&#39;t allow people that inhabited them to leave. what were their names? hmm...oh yeah, Alcatraz and Gorgona.
You only have to look at any other latin american nation to see how terrible capitalism is wreaking its fruit there

the great majority of them are in poverty, illiterate, and suffering from crime and pollution filled cities along with mass geonicides, (Ex.) US sponsered-guatamalen geonicide: 200,000)

Cuba, even by bourgeois estimates, has only caused the deaths through execution or starvation, at most, 20,000, and most of those were either CIA agents or rich men who stayed to try to destroy the system.

So you can&#39;t really say nations like Mexico, Jamaca, Guatamala, Brazil, or etc, are any better in any possible way than cuba.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

the great majority of them are in poverty, illiterate, and suffering from crime and pollution filled cities along with mass geonicides, (Ex.) US sponsered-guatamalen geonicide: 200,000)

Could you provide any documentation regarding the notion that the majority of South Americans are illiterate?

Second, crime exists everywhere. Even in Scandinavia crime is widespread.

Pollution filled cities exist pretty much everywhere.

[Viva Fidel&#33;&#33;]

eyeswideopen is this right-winger banned yet?

[Labor Shall Rule]

I think it is funny when you examine the number of immigrants from Cuba compared to the rest of Latin America. Only 500-1000 Cubans risk their lives to come every year, but over 3,000,000 Mexicans, 1,500,000 from Central America, and 1,000,000 from South America also risks their lives to come here ever year. If we should point at "authoritarian" regimes, the corrupt PDR (Party for a Democratic Revolution) in Mexico, is a perfect example. If we should point out what the "authoritarian" element of economic devastation in Latin America is, we shouldn&#39;t point at social welfare or "communism", but rather free trade.