Avakian's New Talks [Archive]

Red Heretic

10th August 2006, 06:57

For those who don't know, there's been alot of talk about Avakian, the Chairman of the Revolutionary Communist Party, on this board (and in particular, the popularization of him as a leader). I do not consider those discussions to have contained much substance. Anyway, That is not what I want to discuss here.

I want to have a discussion to engage the content of his new talks, and hear different opinions regarding the line that he is putting forward in these new talks.

Please keep discussion on topic, and discuss whether or not you agree with what he is putting forward!

Here are the new talks:

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Why We're In The Situation We're In Today ... And What To Do About It: A Thoroughly Rotten System and the Need for Revolution

Part 1 (http://bobavakian.net/sound/new/1_why_we-re_in_the_situation_we-re_in_today_1.mp3)
Part 2 (http://bobavakian.net/sound/new/1_why_we-re_in_the_situation_we-re_in_today_2.mp3)
Part 3 (http://bobavakian.net/sound/new/1_why_we-re_in_the_situation_we-re_in_today_3.mp3)

Communism and Jeffersonian Democracy

Part 1 (http://bobavakian.net/sound/new/2_communism_and_jeffersonian_democracy_1.mp3)
Part 2 (http://bobavakian.net/sound/new/2_communism_and_jeffersonian_democracy_2.mp3)
Part 3 (http://bobavakian.net/sound/new/2_communism_and_jeffersonian_democracy_3.mp3)

Communism: A Whole New World And The Emancipation of All Humanity – Not "The Last Shall Be First, And the First Shall Be Last"

Part 1 (http://bobavakian.net/sound/new/3_communism-a_whole_new_world_1.mp3)
Part 2 (http://bobavakian.net/sound/new/3_communism-a_whole_new_world_2.mp3)

The NBA: Marketing The Minstrel Show and Serving the Big Gangsters

Part 1 (http://bobavakian.net/sound/new/4_the_nba-marketing_the_minstrel_show-part-1.mp3)
Part 2 (http://bobavakian.net/sound/new/4_the_nba-marketing_the_minstrel_show-part-2.mp3)

Communism and Religion: Getting Up and Getting Free – Making Revolution to Change the Real World, Not Relying on "Things Unseen"

Part 1 (http://bobavakian.net/sound/new/5_communism_and_religion-getting_up_and_getting_free-part_1.mp3)
Part 2 (http://bobavakian.net/sound/new/5_communism_and_religion-getting_up_and_getting_free-part_2.mp3)
Part 3 (http://bobavakian.net/sound/new/5_communism_and_religion-getting_up_and_getting_free-part_3.mp3)
Part 4 (http://bobavakian.net/sound/new/5_communism_and_religion-getting_up_and_getting_free-part_4.mp3)

Conservatism, Christian Fundamentalism, Liberalism and Paternalism ... Bill Cosby and Bill Clinton ... Not all "Right" But All Wrong!

Part 1 (http://bobavakian.net/sound/new/6_conservatism-christian_fundamentalism-liberalism_part_1.mp3)
Part 2 (http://bobavakian.net/sound/new/6_conservatism-christian_fundamentalism-liberalism_part_2.mp3)
Part 3 (http://bobavakian.net/sound/new/6_conservatism-christian_fundamentalism-liberalism_part_3.mp3)

"Balance" Is The Wrong Criterion – And A Cover for a Witch-hunt – What We Need is the Search for the Truth: Education, Real Academic Freedom, Critical Thinking and Dissent

Part 1 (http://bobavakian.net/sound/new/7_balance_is_the_wrong_criterion_part_1.mp3)
Part 2 (http://bobavakian.net/sound/new/7_balance_is_the_wrong_criterion_part_2.mp3)

Please download these, listen to them, and then post your agreements or criticisms!

CCCPneubauten

10th August 2006, 07:51

I've gotten his talks on the Cultural Revolution and China and his talk on leadership...

Which one do you think is him at his best RH?

Rawthentic

10th August 2006, 08:02

Darn... I couldnt download the talks. Anyway, is this some form of Leninist propraganda? I think that the vast majority in this fourm will successfully attack Leninism and why its decrepit. I dont mean to be so rough, but its high time that we moved on from authoritarian ideologies.

CCCPneubauten

10th August 2006, 08:06

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2006, 05:03 AM
Darn... I couldnt download the talks. Anyway, is this some form of Leninist propraganda? I think that the vast majority in this fourm will successfully attack Leninism and why its decrepit. I dont mean to be so rough, but its high time that we moved on from authoritarian ideologies.
Can you not read? :huh:

Rawthentic

10th August 2006, 08:09

Yeah, but I honestly dont give a shit, I had to say it. Easy for you to change the subject when you can't backup an authoritarian ideology.

Red Heretic

10th August 2006, 08:22

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2006, 04:52 AM
I've gotten his talks on the Cultural Revolution and China and his talk on leadership...

Which one do you think is him at his best RH?
Well, I have listened to all of his older talks, but of the new talks I have only listened to "Why We're in the Situation We're In" and "Jeffersonian Democracy" so far.

"Why We're in the Situation We're In" is an excellent, concrete analysis of the development of US imperialism, and the world situation as a whole. I highly recommend it.

Jeffersonian Democracy is a good source for understanding the development of US imperialist ideology, and the roots of the US itself.

Red Heretic

10th August 2006, 08:26

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2006, 05:03 AM
Anyway, is this some form of Leninist propraganda? I think that the vast majority in this fourm will successfully attack Leninism and why its decrepit. I dont mean to be so rough, but its high time that we moved on from authoritarian ideologies.
Please stay on topic and listen to the talks before you try to write them off as "authoritarian communism" or some other subjective childish insult.

Yes, Avakian is a Marxist-Leninist-Maoist, and that's nothing to be ashamed of.

Red Heretic

10th August 2006, 08:32

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2006, 05:10 AM
Easy for you to change the subject when you can't backup an authoritarian ideology.
Excuse me, but you're the one that is trying to change the subject of this thread...

If you don't think the Avakian can back up his ideology, then please listen to the talks and respond what Avakian is actually saying.

Zero

10th August 2006, 08:36

I love his old speeches on religion. I'll download the new one in a bit.

Honggweilo

10th August 2006, 11:45

Ive been looking for an overviewalble selection of avakians work, i got lost on the RCP website and all i found we're some vague biased critics on european communist parties <_< .

But anyway thx for posting "The Selected Works of Chairman Bob" :P, time for me to do some do some listning and form some iron critizism and self-critizism

Red Heretic

10th August 2006, 22:58

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2006, 08:46 AM
Ive been looking for an overviewalble selection of avakians work, i got lost on the RCP website and all i found we're some vague biased critics on european communist parties <_< .
What was it about the criticisms of the revisionist "communist" parties of Europe that upset you?

By the way, if that's all you could find on the RCP's website, you must not have been looking very hard! :lol: I'm not even farmiliar with those articles, and I read it weekly!

But anyway thx for posting "The Selected Works of Chairman Bob" :P, time for me to do some do some listning and form some iron critizism and self-critizism

Well, I don't think these talks should necessarily be taken as Avakian's "selected works," because there are alot of really important books and essays that he has written that are not covered in these talks. Particularly his essays "On Epistemology," which the Communist Party of Nepal (maoist) has adopted, and his various different essays on Christian Fascism and civil war.

OneBrickOneVoice

15th August 2006, 04:48

Red Heretic, I have a question about maoism. Recently I've become very interested in it but I don't understand how it can be supported after the millions who died in the Great Leap forward and in Pol Pots massacres. I also don't understand why Maoists are so supportive of Stalin since it was he who consolidated all worker's power, beaurocratized the party, and purged millions in gulags. I know this thread is about Bob, so I'm sorry about getting off topic.

Honggweilo

15th August 2006, 11:26

Originally posted by Red Heretic+Aug 10 2006, 07:59 PM--> (Red Heretic @ Aug 10 2006, 07:59 PM)
[email protected] 10 2006, 08:46 AM
Ive been looking for an overviewalble selection of avakians work, i got lost on the RCP website and all i found we're some vague biased critics on european communist parties <_< .
What was it about the criticisms of the revisionist "communist" parties of Europe that upset you?

By the way, if that's all you could find on the RCP's website, you must not have been looking very hard! :lol: I'm not even farmiliar with those articles, and I read it weekly!

But anyway thx for posting "The Selected Works of Chairman Bob" :P, time for me to do some do some listning and form some iron critizism and self-critizism

Well, I don't think these talks should necessarily be taken as Avakian's "selected works," because there are alot of really important books and essays that he has written that are not covered in these talks. Particularly his essays "On Epistemology," which the Communist Party of Nepal (maoist) has adopted, and his various different essays on Christian Fascism and civil war. [/b]
Your right about me not looking very hard, i just came to that specific page by accident. I think it was some article in "recent writings" about the dominating revisionist current in europe (which isnt "dominating", only in france, spain and italy where leading parties addopted the hypocritcal current caled eurocommunism, which is basicly a other word for social-democracy). He goes on, with quite annoying polemics (with fraises like " fuck them"), and generalizes all communist parties in europe to be revisionist, which i strongly deny. How can you call parties like the Workers Party of Belgium (which has good contacts with the CPN-M), The Portuguese Communist Party, the Greek Communist Party, and ofcourse my own, The New Communist Party of the Netherlands revisionist? call us "stalinist", marxist-leninist or whatever, but this is a direct and biased insult. We all have anti-revisionist programs, although not all in a maoist perspective. If people go on and blame parties for being revisionist on that kind of broad perspective, you can blame anyone who deviates from avakian thought revisionist. Also those revisionist parties have quite large Marxist-Leninist fractions within them, and those people deserve my support, although the mainstream is trotskyte, eurocommunist or often vaguely "anti-globalist".

I cant find the piece anymore, although i tried looking. Its kind of a maze out there on the RCP website. What Avakian lacks decent polemics, he makes up in quantity :P. Anyway, that just annoyed me, but i can't find the source so that doesnt make me very convincing, and i'm also begining to doubt if it was the RCP who made this accusation or another maoist group, its quite a while ago. I was reading some of his works about the GPCR and it was quite interesting, although alot of our views are not on the same line, doesnt mean we cant learn from each other through discussion.

Honggweilo

15th August 2006, 11:48

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2006, 01:49 AM
and in Pol Pots massacres.
Since when is Pol Pot a maoist :wacko: ?

Honggweilo

15th August 2006, 12:04

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2006, 05:10 AM
Yeah, but I honestly dont give a shit, I had to say it. Easy for you to change the subject when you can't backup an authoritarian ideology.
It is easy for you to don't give a shit, move on to something "new" and do not do any kind of research. Its easy for you as a sideliner to attack something someone is defending without taking the time to do some research on what the person is defending, instead falling in to commonplaced aqusitions. If your so persistent of accusing the works posted here of being athoritarian, then base it on some hard effidence. If you dont exactly know what you despise then your bound to repeat it yourself, and who knows maybe avakian has some good points that might be usefull to you.

ZACKist

20th August 2006, 21:47

Me being deeply entrenched in the study of religion and its effects on the masses lead me to listen to the "Communism and Religion: Getting Up and Getting Free – Making Revolution to Change the Real World, Not Relying on 'Things Unseen'" talk. It goes into both the Bible and the Koran with some real great analysis. A really great talk if you're like me and want to get a deeper and better understanding of what religion really is and why such a large amount of the masses get attracted to it. Avakian doesn't just stop at explaining what it is and why it is harmful, he goes further into what is actually needed in today's world. I recommend it highly.

I would also like to add to RH's post that there is a QandA page up from this recent talks. Possibly some questions that maybe some will have will be in them. The link to the QandA is: http://bobavakian.net/questions.html

Finally I would also like to re-recommend the "Why We're In The Situation We're In Today ... And What To Do About It: A Thoroughly Rotten System and the Need for Revolution" speech. I would say it brings forth a LOT of analysis of the current situation of things and has a lot in it.

Good day, comrades!

Red Heretic

20th August 2006, 21:48

Hey LeftHenry. I need to apologize to you for the delay in my response, I've been very busy lately.

Recently I've become very interested in it but I don't understand how it can be supported after the millions who died in the Great Leap forward

While there were alot of mistakes that were made during the Great Leap Forward, the Great Leap Forard as a whole achieved tremendous things for the Chinese people. The Great Leap Forward is a very broad and complex topic, however, and I don't think that I could do it justice (and I really don't want this thread to go too far off topic). Because of that, I'm going to refer you to an excellent article on the Great Leap Forward by Raymond Lotta.

The Great Leap Forward (http://rwor.org/a/033/socialism-communism-better-capitalism-pt9.htm)

and in Pol Pots massacres.

The association of Pol Pot with Maoism is actually based entirely on racist western stereotypes. In fact, Pol Pot was an open supporter of the capitalist coup in China, and opposed socialist revolution.

It is important to understand the class outlook and ideology of Pol Pot's revolution, vs. that of the Chinese revolution. In China, because the overwhelming majority of the masses belonged to the class of peasantry, the proletariat were the leading force, with the peasantry as the main force. This is in stark contradiction with Cambodia, where the peasantry were both the leading force and the main force. Because the peasantry were the leading force, this led to the Khmer to develop a class outlook which viewed the people in the city, the proletarians, as being exploiters of the peasantry. As we all know, viewing the proletariat in this way and with that class outlook led to them forcing people out of the cities and into the countryside.

In conclusion, Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge were anti-Maoist and anti-communist.

I also don't understand why Maoists are so supportive of Stalin since it was he who consolidated all worker's power, beaurocratized the party, and purged millions in gulags.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "so supportive." The Maoist analysis of any person is based upon an examination of whether or not that person was fundamentally good, or fundamentally bad. Mao said that Stalin was 70% good, and 30% bad.

Stalin made many mistakes. However, the fundamental truth about Stalin is that he built socialism, furthered the liberation of women, and smashed Nazi imperialism.

As communists, we should not just throw away all of the contributions that Stalin made to the international communist movement. However, we also should criticize all of Stalin's mistakes and short comings in the international communist movement, so that we can learn from those as well.

I also would like to refer you to some of Raymond Lotta's articles on Stalin, which you can find here:

The Soviet Experiment: The Social Revolution Ushered in by Proletarian Power (http://rwor.org/a/028/socialism-communism-is-better-pt4.htm)
The Soviet Experiment: Building the World's First Socialist Economy (http://rwor.org/a/029/socialism-communism-better-than-capitalism-pt5.htm)
The Soviet Experiment: World War 2 and Its Aftermath (http://rwor.org/a/030/socialism-communism-better-than-capitalism-6.htm)

I know this thread is about Bob, so I'm sorry about getting off topic.

That's ok comrade, I understand you've got questions. If you'd like to further discuss this, perhaps we could do so on AIM or Yahoo? Do you have either?