How great Norway is!

[Karl Marx's Camel]

CNN has a report on how rich Norway is. They say children here are "blessed". What they never mention is that there are people here who live on nudles and some people starve. Others are homeless, unemployed. Most people just think about how to come through the day, the week, month, year.


Kids can't go on school trips because they feel so guilty asking their poor parents for money. So they won't. And they will have to hear about other kids having a wonderful time.


We still have to pay thousands of Crowns for being treated by doctors.

We still have to pay for our education.

That Norway is so great and its a paradise... It's crap. It's shit. I want to puke.


To show how great Norway is they asked a couple. One was a sport journalist for the local newspaper, the other was an artist. And then they interviewed men in suits, asking them how great Norway is. Yes yes, Norway very great, very great!

If they interviewed me I would say: No no, Norway is crap. Crap, crap, crap. We don't have free education, we don't have free healthcare. The government lies and don't care about us.

Why didn't they interview beggars, homeless people, poor students?
Society is only as rich as its poorest members.

[Patchd]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2006, 06:17 PM
CNN has a report on how rich Norway is. They say children here are "blessed". What they never mention is that there are people here who live on nudles and some people starve. Others are homeless, unemployed. Most people just think about how to come through the day, the week, month, year.


Kids can't go on school trips because they feel so guilty asking their poor parents for money. So they won't. And they will have to hear about other kids having a wonderful time.


We still have to pay thousands of Crowns for being treated by doctors.

We still have to pay for our education.

That Norway is so great and its a paradise... It's crap. It's shit. I want to puke.


To show how great Norway is they asked a couple. One was a sport journalist for the local newspaper, the other was an artist. And then they interviewed men in suits, asking them how great Norway is. Yes yes, Norway very great, very great!

If they interviewed me I would say: No no, Norway is crap. Crap, crap, crap. We don't have free education, we don't have free healthcare. The government lies and don't care about us.

Why didn't they interview beggars, homeless people, poor students?
Society is only as rich as its poorest members.
Its not surprising that that came from CNN, they lie and bullshit about everything and distort everything so that the working class think they're living in such a wonderful fairytale society.

[Abolish Communism]

Gees! Sounds like those Norge guys better become more like the U.S.

[theraven]

Kids can't go on school trips because they feel so guilty asking their poor parents for money. So they won't. And they will have to hear about other kids having a wonderful time.

awwwwwwww.....if i remember my expeirnce in the evil capistlis usa i never had field trip (that my who class went on ayway) that cost mroe thne 50 dollars. some ones that were given out to studetns who had high grades (example one aunt of mine takes the top 10 spansih students in grade 12 here to spain during spring break). thats probably a bit expeinve but i am sure its possible to get asstiance if you truely need it


We still have to pay thousands of Crowns for being treated by doctors.

wahts a crown equal to in us dollars?


We still have to pay for our education.

you pay for it one way or the other..

[RevSouth]

Originally posted by Abolish [email protected] 11 2006, 04:28 PM
Gees! Sounds like those Norge guys better become more like the U.S.
What's so great about the U.S.? It is probably just as bad or worse than Norway.

[Abolish Communism]

THEN WHY ARE YOU HERE?!?

[toresbe]

CNN has a report on how rich Norway is. They say children here are "blessed". What they never mention is that there are people here who live on nudles and some people starve. Others are homeless, unemployed. Most people just think about how to come through the day, the week, month, year.
I'm sorry? I say this being a citizen who was at the economic bottom, having lived in orphanages since the age of 14, and living for a year on approx. 100 dollars a week in a very expensive country and supporting me and my girlfriend on that money: Bullshit. Fucking bullshit. Norway has an excellent welfare system. In my opinion, maybe even too excellent, but that's another topic.

Kids can't go on school trips because they feel so guilty asking their poor parents for money. So they won't. And they will have to hear about other kids having a wonderful time.

That's the kid's problem! I asked my mom, she said "no". Fair enough. The beaches here suck, anyway. Schools never charge large amounts of money for the school trips anyway. There is one trip at the end of the secondary "Ungdomssskolen", but that's made in 2384762344 easy payments of something like 10 Kroner a week.

We still have to pay thousands of Crowns for being treated by doctors.
That's funny. I didn't. The government even paid 75% of my dental braces, saving my mother around 60,000 and having me at one of the best clinics in Norway. And it's Kroner, btw. We don't pass physical crowns around to eachother unless our surnames are Rex.

We still have to pay for our education.
Only with time. You don't have to pay for education until you get to VGS at around age 17, and by then you should easily be able to get a weekend job if you really don't have the 4000 kroner it takes to buy the books. Only the literature and office supplies are covered by you. And you get way more than 4000 kroner back if you apply for a scholarship anyway, so that's no real problem.

That Norway is so great and its a paradise... It's crap. It's shit. I want to puke.
I love it. And I say that as a person who's grown up with a dirt-poor single mother in a very rich neighbourhood, surrounded by imbeciles with rich parents. I love Norway, more than any other country I've been to, though the Netherlands are quite nice. Like the people.

To show how great Norway is they asked a couple. One was a sport journalist for the local newspaper, the other was an artist. And then they interviewed men in suits, asking them how great Norway is. Yes yes, Norway very great, very great!
I'd say a journalist, an artist, and businessmen would be excellent people to ask about this. A journalist would hopefully be informed of freedom of press and speech, an artist would be knowledgeable of the cultural environment of a country, and businessmen would be knowledgeable of the economy. Makes sense to me.

If they interviewed me I would say: No no, Norway is crap. Crap, crap, crap.
Then... I hate to sound right-wing, 'cause, you know, I'm not at all - really - but ... get a fucking job, then. Maybe they didn't interview you because you smell or something? In this country you have to make a real effort not to have a good deal of money.

Why didn't they interview beggars, homeless people, poor students?
Because those people tend to be quite unable to make a living for themselves in spite of a government doing basically everything you'd need to use your skills to generate value and make money. And even then you can get an appartment for basically free and still do nothing.

Society is only as rich as its poorest members.
Let me guess, you couldn't afford the basic math curriculum.

Get a fucking clue before you speak about my country, please.

Love,
Tore

[toresbe]

Originally posted by Abolish [email protected] 11 2006, 09:28 PM
Gees! Sounds like those Norge guys better become more like the U.S.
What, you mean - retarded? I'm serious, I've been to the United states and it was a quite terrifying and depressing experience. Not only were there entirely competent and coherent people out on the streets, and in extreme poverty, but the entire populace seemed to have a feeling of insecurity to it - which they seemed to be backing up with macho bravado and consumerism. Everything this NWOG fellow commented upon is far, far, worse in the U.S.

Hell, you could be dying, and be unable to get treatment if you're penniless. Education costs money practically from the time you learn to walk. I came into the US being quite sympathetic to right-wing ideas, but left firmly cemented in the left. Guess that's what you get when your economy is almost completely unregulated.

[toresbe]

Originally posted by Abolish [email protected] 11 2006, 10:24 PM
THEN WHY ARE YOU HERE?!?
...Are you insinuating that being in a country removes your right to criticise it? That's an incredibly ill-informed and unpatriotic statement to make. If you feel something is wrong with your country, it is your patriotic duty to express this in a cogent and informed manner, through appropriate channels - newspaper opinion pieces, (open?) letters to politicians, etc. Maybe even run for office.

When these options have been exhausted, it might be time for a preferably nonviolent government coup, like the Russian one. (Not that I don't think the Yeltsin administration drove the country into a ditch, dunked it with gasoline, and set fire to it) This is why the founding fathers of the U.S. Constitution explicitly allowed the populace to carry arms - it was in the case that if the government no longer serves the people, then the populace needed to have arms to revolt, and this is what the constitution now stipulates. ...Not that I think a shotgun would do you much good at the White House...

(I don't know if this was in reply to RedSouth or my post, so I'm keeping it general)

[I love Kylie]

Originally posted by toresbe+Aug 11 2006, 10:51 PM--> (toresbe @ Aug 11 2006, 10:51 PM)
Abolish [email protected] 11 2006, 09:28 PM
Gees! Sounds like those Norge guys better become more like the U.S.
What, you mean - retarded? I'm serious, I've been to the United states and it was a quite terrifying and depressing experience. Not only were there entirely competent and coherent people out on the streets, and in extreme poverty, but the entire populace seemed to have a feeling of insecurity to it - which they seemed to be backing up with macho bravado and consumerism. Everything this NWOG fellow commented upon is far, far, worse in the U.S.

Hell, you could be dying, and be unable to get treatment if you're penniless. Education costs money practically from the time you learn to walk. I came into the US being quite sympathetic to right-wing ideas, but left firmly cemented in the left. Guess that's what you get when your economy is almost completely unregulated. [/b]
Regulation is the key to poverty. Government is not the answer to the problem, it is the problem. Norway is one of the most stinking $ocialist governments in the europefascist bloc. They need to have 50% women as men on company boards lol. BY LAW! What kind of idiocy is this? What if I say STFU I don't like it, I will go to jail. Leftism is for moronic communi$ts.

[Marukusu]

I would say that Norway is the most economically powerful nation in Scandinavia, and thus the richest in a bourgeouise sense. Norway and Sweden are nearly identical when it comes to politics (at least I think so, correct me if I'm wrong), but Norway can mine oil from the North Atlantic which Sweden can't, and because of the oil Norway is "richer" than Sweden.

However, as comrade NWOG stated, poverty still exist in "rich" Scandinavia because of the capitalist system. Yes, people in general have it far better here than in many other parts of the world, but everything is far from perfect.
Society is still divided between rich and poor, workers and capitalists, and the "Scandinavian system" is definately not to be used as a model for anyone who calls him- och herself an anarchist or communist.




If they interviewed me I would say: No no, Norway is crap. Crap, crap, crap.


Then... I hate to sound right-wing, 'cause, you know, I'm not at all - really - but ... get a fucking job, then.

Oh, yeah I guess that if comrade NWOG is unemployed then that is because he is lazy and not because that there is no jobs around. Yeah, blame the workers if the system is wrong you nationalist bastard...


Norway is one of the most stinking $ocialist governments in the europefascist bloc.

No, it's not. Socialism and Social Democracy is definately not the same.


What if I say STFU I don't like it, I will go to jail.

Bullshit. Do you have any proof?


Leftism is for moronic communi$ts.

What about the anarchists? Or should they be spelled "anarchi$ts"?
And what makes a person a "moron"? Her political views?

[somebodywhowantedtoleaveandnotcomeback]

Originally posted by I love [email protected] 12 2006, 03:51 PM
Leftism is for moronic communi$ts.
So tell me, does it make you feel proud to be on the same political side as nazis? ;)

[Karl Marx's Camel]

Sounds like those Norge guys better become more like the U.S.

The U.S. is even worse. Been there. Seen the shit. Homeless people lining up, begging on their knees for food, water, a place to stay, clothes, money. Quite interesting to see that since 10 minutes away there was an upper class district where those living there had 10 cars, a mansion with 6 different baths, housekeepers, and a home cinema.

Literally.




wahts a crown equal to in us dollars?

Seven crowns = 1 dollar, approximately.



Norway has an excellent welfare system. In my opinion, maybe even too excellent

There are people with parkinson disease are being told that if they get worse they will be put in a old people's home. Is that your definition of "excellent"?

People with severe problems in their back are refused free operations, which amounts to gigantic sums. I have a friend who can't function normally due to a problem in his back, though he can still walk around. But he cannot squat without another person helping him. And we're not talking about squat-exercises here.

That's good enough for the state. Partially-handicapped. That's what you are, that's what you are gonna be. They will probably put him on surgery when he has collapsed and lie in bed. Not before. It's first when someone has to walk through pain and suffering they will fix you.

Hell, I know a guy who have been in an accident and have had to put out 300,000 dollars to get functioning again. He had to go to a foreign country to get his body fixed. How much did the Norwegian state cover? NOTHING. He had to pay it all.

I am waiting for surgery. I've been waiting for half a year, and the surgery takes about 7 minutes. So I have suffered for half a year, every day, it has made my life complicated. Half a year, and I still have to pay. It's not really tragic. It's just stupid and annoying.

Got a letter, though, for the operation. It said I should bring my own fucking crouches if I can't walk after the surgery. That's funny.

This is all personal experience.

It's not Africa where a butcher is hired for chopping out the liver of an old man, so he can provide for his family by sell his liver to rich westerners, whereby he moments later die because of blood loss. But to say that Norway is a paradise is a big lie.


And it's Kroner, btw. We don't pass physical crowns around to eachother unless our surnames are Rex.

Czech koruna means crown.

Swedish krona means crown.

Czechoslovak koruna means crown.

Icelandic króna means crown.

Austro-Hungarian krone/osztrák-magyar korona means crown.

Oh, I think I forgot Estonian kroon and Danish krone.

It's quite common to say "crowns". At least I have heard it plenty of times.



Then... I hate to sound right-wing, 'cause, you know, I'm not at all - really - but ... get a fucking job, then.

Oh where have we heard that before?





That's the kid's problem!

That's the kid's problem? :(

What kind of person are you? :angry: <_<

[Ander]

people here who live on nudles and some people starve.

What&#39;s a nudle?


Norway is one of the most stinking &#036;ocialist governments in the europefascist bloc.

Why are you arguing against something you obviously don&#39;t understand at all? Norway has a capitalist system just like the US, you tool.


THEN WHY ARE YOU HERE?&#33;?

Because I believe the US is the type of country, for now at least, where you can criticize the government without getting a visit from the secret police later that night. Are you in favour of those Nazi type tactics?

[Karl Marx's Camel]

What&#39;s a nudle?

I&#39;m sorry, it was supposed to say "noodles" (a mixture of flour and semolina, whole eggs, or egg whites).

[toresbe]

I would say that Norway is the most economically powerful nation in Scandinavia, and thus the richest in a bourgeouise sense. Norway and Sweden are nearly identical when it comes to politics (at least I think so, correct me if I&#39;m wrong), but Norway can mine oil from the North Atlantic which Sweden can&#39;t, and because of the oil Norway is "richer" than Sweden.
This is true. We currently have the strongest economy of the Scandinavian countries. Whether this is sustainable is quite a different matter...

However, as comrade NWOG stated, poverty still exist in "rich" Scandinavia because of the capitalist system. Yes, people in general have it far better here than in many other parts of the world, but everything is far from perfect.
Of course everything is far from perfect. It&#39;s a society in real life and not on paper. Perfection is unattainable. I feel that social democracy is a very good approach. Firstly, one must point out that poverty is calculated from average wages, which in Norway are very high. Even factoring in this, the poverty rates in Norway are some of the lowest in the world. I&#39;d guesstimate bottom 5 or 10.

Society is still divided between rich and poor, workers and capitalists, and the "Scandinavian system" is definately not to be used as a model for anyone who calls him- och herself an anarchist or communist.
It is not divided between rich and poor when people can grow up poor and become rich, and vice versa. That&#39;s an important sign of health in a society. Wealth is not decided by class or family, but by skill and effort. That&#39;s a fair society - effort and skill are things to be rewarded. Of course, people who are unable to make a living for themselves are afforded some basic housing and money. Unless they make some active effort to waste this on something, like drugs, they have a place to sleep and food to eat.

Oh, yeah I guess that if comrade NWOG is unemployed then that is because he is lazy and not because that there is no jobs around. Yeah, blame the workers if the system is wrong you nationalist bastard...
Well, yeah... If there were widespread unemployment I wouldn&#39;t have said that. I got a job at age 17 with no education - doing IT consulting&#33;

[toresbe]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2006, 04:38 PM

What&#39;s a nudle?

I&#39;m sorry, it was supposed to say "noodles" (a mixture of flour and semolina, whole eggs, or egg whites).
AKA "ramen" in the U.S. Cheap student food for less than a buck a pack.

[toresbe]

The U.S. is even worse. (...)
Yeah, I&#39;ve been there. Made me give some serious thought to politics. There were able, competent, coherent people out in the streets. Not Good.


Norway has an excellent welfare system. In my opinion, maybe even too excellent

There are people with parkinson disease are being told that if they get worse they will be put in a old people&#39;s home. Is that your definition of "excellent"?
Of course not.


People with severe problems in their back are refused free operations, which amounts to gigantic sums. I have a friend who can&#39;t function normally due to a problem in his back, though he can still walk around. But he cannot squat without another person helping him. And we&#39;re not talking about squat-exercises here. (...)
Yes, because they&#39;re busy operating on people who will die if they don&#39;t. A medical system has to prioritize.

But to say that Norway is a paradise is a big lie.
I&#39;ve never said it was.

Oh where have we heard that before?
Many places, I&#39;m sure.

[toresbe]

Anyway, I give up, this forum is full of people who have absolutely no idea how anything works and probably never will.
I guess that&#39;s not a particularily big surprise, you get what you deserve when you follow IRC links like "revolutionaryleft.com"...

Thanks to the people who at least showed a grain of knowledge and sense - Jello, Marakusu, ...

[Dyst]

Politically Norway is quite a deal better than the US. At least here the big parties actually have different opinions on major issues... :P

And the people seem to be more awake, though still many go around thinking communism is some religion belonging to the 20th century (many leftists included bizarrely enough).

The material conditions is as previously described, for most people. It&#39;s a capitalist society just like the U.S.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

Firstly, one must point out that poverty is calculated from average wages, which in Norway are very high.

I would assume that is how the bourgeoisie calculate poverty. It&#39;s kinda neat.

If you have three billionaires and 30 CEO&#39;s in a country of 1 million; where one third survive on a very small agriculture output and the rest surive by collecting garbage, leftovers and water located in a well five miles away, exluding the billionaires and a few doctors/teachers, then you suddenly have a nation without poverty, even perhaps a rich nation&#33;

[toresbe]

Well, OK, I&#39;ll bite, mostly because I&#39;m bored waiting for the excellent Norwegian public transportation.

Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2006, 07:19 PM

Firstly, one must point out that poverty is calculated from average wages, which in Norway are very high.

I would assume that is how the bourgeoisie calculate poverty. It&#39;s kinda neat.

If you have three billionaires and 30 CEO&#39;s in a country of 1 million; where one third survive on a very small agriculture output and the rest surive by collecting garbage, leftovers and water located in a well five miles away, exluding the billionaires and a few doctors/teachers, then you suddenly have a nation without poverty, even perhaps a rich nation&#33;
No, then you&#39;d have a nation full of poor people. As it&#39;s calculated from average wage, as average wage increases, then it&#39;s *easier* to become poor as the country grows progressively more wealthy as the poverty limit rises with the average income.

Please get a fucking clue.

Love,
Tore

[red team]

No, then you&#39;d have a nation full of poor people.

A nation full of poor people where you can propagandise about the great opportunity to become rich if you just keep your head down, don&#39;t ask questions and work to be rich. So, how many people won the lottery today?


As it&#39;s calculated from average wage, as average wage increases, then it&#39;s *easier* to become poor as the country grows progressively more wealthy as the poverty limit rises with the average income.

If businesses become more profitable then consumers will need more money to purchase the products of businesses. otherwise products will be left unsold and businesses will become unprofitable. If you pay the worker higher wages then money will be worth less due to inflation and the economy will stumble if you raise interest rates both consumers and businesses will find it more expensive to borrow money and the economy will stumble.

This is Capitalism. It operates in a boom-bust cycle. What you&#39;re asking for is an impossibility since for businesses to recover from a bust they need to drive smaller businesses out of the economy through bankruptcy and mergers so as to become more resourceful economically and also to improve the financial efficiency of the business. Hence you&#39;ll always get concentration of wealth on the one hand and poverty on the other. The middle class worldwide is disappearing because of this polarization.