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HankMorgan
9th August 2006, 08:08
There's a clip I having running in my mind but I can't see how it plays out.

A respected Lebanese grocer kisses his wife, pats his kids on the head and steps downstairs to his grocery. When he enters the grocery he notices the shelf of fruit drink is almost bare so he walks to the storeroom at the back of the grocery. As the grocer opens the door to his storeroom he notices the fruit drink supply is all gone. In fact it's been replaced by katyusha rockets, wall to wall, floor to ceiling. He looks around until his eyes meet the eyes of a young man sipping a fruit drink. The grocer looks down to see a kalashnikov slung from the young man's shoulder. Quickly, without stopping to think the grocer says "Help yourself to the fruit drink", then closes the door to the supply room and steps back.

The grocer spins around and walks to the stairs. As he walks up the stairs he thinks to himself. The katyushas are for a Hezbollah rocket battery. The rockets are for firing at Israel. In the past whenever Israel has been shot at, they shoot back. That means if Hezbollah fires the rockets in my store at Israel, Israel will soon be shooting back at my store.

At the top of the stairs the grocer opens the door to his apartment and says to his wife "Dear wife our country, our village, our grocery have once again become a battlefield...

Does the grocer then continue his sentence with

A) ...we must get our children and ourselves to safety"

or

B) ...let our children and ourselves become martyrs in the struggle to free Palestine from the Jews."


Maybe the grocer said something along the lines of A) but the young man with the kalashnikov and the fruit drink wouldn't let the grocer and his family leave.

Did any scenes like the one above happen in Lebanon during the last few years? If so how did it play out?

Janus
9th August 2006, 08:49
Did any scenes like the one above happen in Lebanon during the last few years?
No, don't think so. If it did, there would be a lot more casualties.

There are few stores near the Israel-Lebanon border. Furthermore, Hezbollah would have a much larger choice of places to fire from. Putting a bunch of rockets in a building would be a major tactical error especially if Israel struck back quickly.

HankMorgan
10th August 2006, 17:33
Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2006, 01:50 AM
No, don't think so. If it did, there would be a lot more casualties.

There are few stores near the Israel-Lebanon border. Furthermore, Hezbollah would have a much larger choice of places to fire from. Putting a bunch of rockets in a building would be a major tactical error especially if Israel struck back quickly.
Think a little more generally. The rockets are not being fired from sprawling Hezbollah military bases and they aren't being fired from open fields. The rockets are coming from civilian areas. There had to have been countless times where a Lebanese person realized that their country would become a battlefield. Over and over the Lebanese had to have arrived at the conclusion that the very place they are standing would become the point of impact for Israeli fire if for no other reason than it's next to where katyushas would be launched.

On the contrary, grocery stores would make an excellent place to stockpile weapons. There's lots of indoor space away from prying eyes where delivery trucks come and go everyday.

Look at my signature. It applies to Lebanese too.

Vinny Rafarino
11th August 2006, 05:49
Originally posted by WankMorgan
Over and over the Lebanese had to have arrived at the conclusion that the very place they are standing would become the point of impact for Israeli fire if for no other reason than it's next to where katyushas would be launched.

On the contrary, grocery stores would make an excellent place to stockpile weapons. There's lots of indoor space away from prying eyes where delivery trucks come and go everyday.

Good grief, the conservative right will put a spin on anything to supoport their atrocious actions.

What will you think up next Wank?

It's the Lebanese civilian's own fault for "getting in the way" of Israeli bombs?

HankMorgan
11th August 2006, 07:42
Originally posted by Iceberg [email protected] 10 2006, 10:50 PM
It's the Lebanese civilian's own fault for "getting in the way" of Israeli bombs?
I've mode no claims about who's at fault. If you see spin, take a stab at unspinning. Please let me see how you think events unfolded during the time the rockets and launchers were transported in the Lebanon.

Some of Israel's attacks have been for the purpose of interdicting the flow of weapons and to prevent any army outside of Lebanon becoming part of the fight.. Any Lebanese killed in these attacks probably couldn't have forseen the exact detail of their deaths.

On the other hand the katyushas and the launchers didn't just instantly appear. The weapons were hauled in over a period of time. There had to be a period before the shooting started when it would have been plain to anyone with average intelligence that there was going to be a war, that Israel will make it their goal to destroy by force of arms the rockets and the launchers, that it will be very dangerous to be near them.

I wish to explore the thought process leading up to the shooting. If you were there, Sir Iceberg Slim, what would you personally have concluded about the presence of katyushas?

RevSouth
14th August 2006, 00:17
Sooo, did you just make this up?

HankMorgan
14th August 2006, 08:20
Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2006, 05:18 PM
Sooo, did you just make this up?
Make up the story of the grocer? Yea. It's a way of easing into figuring out what the Lebanese were thinking. Did it actually happen? Think about it. It must have, over and over.

The cease fire has gone into effect. In Israel, in a few weeks it won't be possible to tell the war even happened. On the other side of the border the Lebanese will be rebuilding for years. Was it worth it?

Now I wonder if the Lebanese will allow Hezbollah to again use their country for a war. If it were me, I wouldn't. Seems like a bad deal.

greymatter
14th August 2006, 20:01
Originally posted by HankMorgan+Aug 14 2006, 05:21 AM--> (HankMorgan @ Aug 14 2006, 05:21 AM)
[email protected] 13 2006, 05:18 PM
Sooo, did you just make this up?
Make up the story of the grocer? Yea. It's a way of easing into figuring out what the Lebanese were thinking. Did it actually happen? Think about it. It must have, over and over. [/b]
...sure

Dr. Rosenpenis
14th August 2006, 23:30
Originally posted by Iceberg Slim+Aug 10 2006, 09:50 PM--> (Iceberg Slim @ Aug 10 2006, 09:50 PM)
WankMorgan
Over and over the Lebanese had to have arrived at the conclusion that the very place they are standing would become the point of impact for Israeli fire if for no other reason than it's next to where katyushas would be launched.

On the contrary, grocery stores would make an excellent place to stockpile weapons. There's lots of indoor space away from prying eyes where delivery trucks come and go everyday.

Good grief, the conservative right will put a spin on anything to supoport their atrocious actions.

What will you think up next Wank?

It's the Lebanese civilian's own fault for "getting in the way" of Israeli bombs? [/b]
Indeed.

Hank, your scenario suggests that the "average" Lebanese grocer has the responsibiliy to flee if they don't want to live in a battlefield. Consequently, their right to live freely doesn't exist.

RevSouth
15th August 2006, 06:21
Originally posted by HankMorgan+Aug 14 2006, 12:21 AM--> (HankMorgan @ Aug 14 2006, 12:21 AM)
[email protected] 13 2006, 05:18 PM
Sooo, did you just make this up?
Make up the story of the grocer? Yea. It's a way of easing into figuring out what the Lebanese were thinking. Did it actually happen? Think about it. It must have, over and over.



[/b]
I want facts. Numbers. Percentages. Fuck, give me some bullshit numbers from a made up newspaper. Unlike the right, we here on the left don't make up crap, and we like a hypothesis backed up. Move.


The cease fire has gone into effect. In Israel, in a few weeks it won't be possible to tell the war even happened. On the other side of the border the Lebanese will be rebuilding for years. Was it worth it?

I don't know which way your going in this. But no, it wasn't worth it. Just Israeli aggression fucking with regular peoples lives.


Now I wonder if the Lebanese will allow Hezbollah to again use their country for a war. If it were me, I wouldn't. Seems like a bad deal.

Most Shi'ites in Southern Lebanon do support Hezbollah for that reason. Hzbollah provides social services and fights the Israelis who have oppressed and threatened to again. I don't support Hezbollah, for religous fundamentalism is never justified, but they did for the Lebanese people what Lebanon wasn't doing, and Israel sure as hell never would.

greymatter
15th August 2006, 19:30
Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2006, 03:22 AM
I want facts. Numbers. Percentages. Fuck, give me some bullshit numbers from a made up newspaper. Unlike the right, we here on the left don't make up crap, and we like a hypothesis backed up. Move.
Don'ty kid yourself, honest intellectuals are in short supply on both sides of the political spectrum.


I don't know which way your going in this. But no, it wasn't worth it. Just Israeli aggression fucking with regular peoples lives.
The Israelis seem to be shooting themselves in the foot alot, it seems that everything they touch turns into a hotbed of anti-israeli sentiment and islamic fundamentalism. Just goes to show that theocracies don't work out too well.


Now I wonder if the Lebanese will allow Hezbollah to again use their country for a war. If it were me, I wouldn't. Seems like a bad deal.
Funny, Hezbollah seems to have even MORE support than they did before the war, even among christians.

RevSouth
15th August 2006, 19:45
Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2006, 11:31 AM
Don'ty kid yourself, honest intellectuals are in short supply on both sides of the political spectrum.


So who would you say is more likely to be factual, the far-right or far-left?

greymatter
15th August 2006, 20:06
Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2006, 04:46 PM
So who would you say is more likely to be factual, the far-right or far-left?
Both sides use plenty of facts. Wether you're on the right or left end of the spectrum depends on perspective, not how "factual" you are. But that wasn't my point, what I had a problem with was when you wrote "we here on the left don't make up crap". That's simply not true, look at Bob Avakian and his goofball maoist party for instance. They're convinced that communism comes about from a "dialectical contradiction!" Hell, how factual would I be if I started talking about the negation of a negation?

RevSouth
15th August 2006, 20:10
Originally posted by greymatter+Aug 15 2006, 12:07 PM--> (greymatter @ Aug 15 2006, 12:07 PM)
[email protected] 15 2006, 04:46 PM
So who would you say is more likely to be factual, the far-right or far-left?
Both sides use plenty of facts. Wether you're on the right or left end of the spectrum depends on perspective, not how "factual" you are. But that wasn't my point, what I had a problem with was when you wrote "we here on the left don't make up crap". That's simply not true, look at Bob Avakian and his goofball maoist party for instance. They're convinced that communism comes about from a "dialectical contradiction!" Hell, how factual would I be if I started talking about the negation of a negation? [/b]
Oh my bad. That was more of a cheap shot than anything. I was more or left talking about the people on the forums, as well, which I didn't make clear.

greymatter
15th August 2006, 20:34
Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2006, 05:11 PM
Oh my bad. That was more of a cheap shot than anything. I was more or left talking about the people on the forums, as well, which I didn't make clear.
Oh well, let's hope we taught HankMorgan that deluded ramblings from his imagination won't persuade anyone.

HankMorgan
26th August 2006, 22:44
Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2006, 01:35 PM
Oh well, let's hope we taught HankMorgan that deluded ramblings from his imagination won't persuade anyone.
I haven't been trying to persuade anyone. With the Lebanese it's a question of what were they thinking.

Let's keep playing.

What do the Lebanese think of Hezbollah now?

Hezbollah still has rockets and it doesn't look like anyone including the Israeli Defence Force will disarm them. Hezbollah fired rockets at Israeli civilians once before, will they do it again?

If Hezbollah rains rockets down on Israeli citizens, what will the IDF do? Will they attempt to stop Hezbollah? If the IDF starts shooting in Lebanon, what will happen to the Lebanese?

Based on the history of recent weeks it looks to me like Lebanon will be a battle ground again. What should the Lebanese do? What are they thinking? Is their future better with or without Hezbollah and its rockets?

What's your opinion Mr greymatter?

Qwerty Dvorak
27th August 2006, 01:51
Originally posted by HankMorgan+Aug 26 2006, 07:45 PM--> (HankMorgan @ Aug 26 2006, 07:45 PM)
[email protected] 15 2006, 01:35 PM
Oh well, let's hope we taught HankMorgan that deluded ramblings from his imagination won't persuade anyone.
I haven't been trying to persuade anyone. With the Lebanese it's a question of what were they thinking.

Let's keep playing.

What do the Lebanese think of Hezbollah now?

Hezbollah still has rockets and it doesn't look like anyone including the Israeli Defence Force will disarm them. Hezbollah fired rockets at Israeli civilians once before, will they do it again?

If Hezbollah rains rockets down on Israeli citizens, what will the IDF do? Will they attempt to stop Hezbollah? If the IDF starts shooting in Lebanon, what will happen to the Lebanese?

Based on the history of recent weeks it looks to me like Lebanon will be a battle ground again. What should the Lebanese do? What are they thinking? Is their future better with or without Hezbollah and its rockets?

What's your opinion Mr greymatter? [/b]
Yes, because Mr. greymatter is quite obviously the tactical secretary of the IDF.

Orion999
2nd September 2006, 06:15
Are all of you retarded? He is using a hypothetical situation in order to make a point about the viewpoint of the war from a hypothetical Lebanese citizen. What is so hard to understand about this. He is not just "making things up" it is a HYPOTHETICAL situatation used to envoke debate about a subject. Not very complicated for anyone with an education.

As for did this situation occur? Of coarse it did to claim otherwise shows complete ingnorance of Hezbollah tacticts. It is a known fact that Hezbollah stores and fires their rockets from civilian locations, because one of their biggest weapons is the negative propaganda they can use from Israeli caused civilian casualties. Do you really think they go around asking everyone who would like to volunteer to have rockets fired from their property at Israel. I'm sure their all just dying to have their home turned into a sure military target for Israeli retailiation.

Dr. Rosenpenis
6th September 2006, 01:20
This is pure speculation and libel.
Also, the FACT that Hizballah is receiving tremendous support from within Lebanon suggest otherwise.

theraven
6th September 2006, 03:00
Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2006, 10:21 PM
This is pure speculation and libel.
Also, the FACT that Hizballah is receiving tremendous support from within Lebanon suggest otherwise.
which im sure has nothing to do with them being the strongest group of armed men.....

Dr. Rosenpenis
6th September 2006, 03:40
I'm sure it does. It has all to do with the fact that they're the strongest group of armed men fighting off the Israeli murderers. I'm sure that's exactly what the Lebanese want. That's what anyone would want.

theraven
6th September 2006, 04:04
Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2006, 12:41 AM
I'm sure it does. It has all to do with the fact that they're the strongest group of armed men fighting off the Israeli murderers. I'm sure that's exactly what the Lebanese want. That's what anyone would want.
except their the reason israel is there..and believe it or not the lebbanse know that. some just object to the israeli tactics.

Dr. Rosenpenis
6th September 2006, 04:14
So?