Is it safe to blame everything on Capitalism?

[R_P_A_S]

My girlfriend and I were having this big debate on this. Because she said I'm close minded to the fact that there's other things beyond and above Capitalism that makes us who we are. I agree to a certain extend BUT she fails to tell me what this "thing" is. I told her that Gangs, Robberies, Prostitution, Scams, and weather changes, other social issues that happen everyday are all products of Capitalism. she agrees with me to some degree. But she always tells me that I have to look at human nature and what made us that way. CAPITALISM LOL. what can You blame on this moster? and what shouldnt be blame on capitalism?

[rouchambeau]

Sexism, racism/racial prejudice, and homophobia are things that didn't directly come from capitalism and probably wont go away after capitalism is destroyed simply because of the destruction of capitalism.

[afrikaNOW]

Damn your girlfriend no offense is a a better marxist than you!

human nature indeed! human beings make their history. You need to look at capitalism from a historical perspective, did Gangs, Robberies, Prostitution, Scams, and weather changes, other social issues exist before the emergence of capitalism? Yes they did, so capitalism must not be the root cause of those issues.

And shes sorta right about theres things beyond and above capitalism that makes us who we are. That's usually called the superstructure in marxists terms, capitalism or the mode of production makes the infrastructure. the superstructure are our values, morals, institutions,etc.

[Ol' Dirty]

I agree with rochambeau. Culture plays a great role in the evils of society. Capitalism is just a piece of the puzzle.

[violencia.Proletariat]

Religion and even fuedal cultural influences still effect our society today. So no, its not all capitalism.

Remember though, the government rules over us because of our nature like the kings ruled duing feudalism because god chose them. :rolleyes:

[An archist]

The other 'thing' is most likely the human impulse to survive, I think that impulse can explain a lot of things like puwer-hunger (the more powerful you are, the better chances of survival) racism (that person has other skin then everyone I know, it might be a threat) social behaviour (if we stick together, we have better chances of survival) and so on, and so on.

Just an idea

[RebelDog]

I say blame everything on capitalism. They would blame everything on us if the shoe was on the other foot. A big problem I find is that a lot of working class people often fail to make a link between the economic ststem that enslaves us and the society it creates. Many fall in to the trap of thinking the free-market is an entity that is removed from the problems of society. That is the way company directors think and to an extent their ideology as the rulling class finds its way in to prolatarian thinking.

I cannot think of a reason while capitalism should not be blamed for anything. I remember Hilary Benn (UK Secretary of State for International Development) talking on the news about the extreme poverty in Africa around the time of last years G8 summit. He said "what can we do, we can't make it rain in Africa." Its true that Hilary Benn or anyone else cannot make it rain in Africa and thus improve crop yields. However the situation in Africa goes far deeper than lack of rain. Africa has long been plundered by corporations whilst its people starve. Thousands of tonnes of food leave the continent every day. If it did rain the west would steal it anyway. We have enough resources right now to put an end to extreme poverty across the world right now. The likes of Hilary Benn would like people to think the problems in Africa are down to rainfall whilst he doesn't mention he supports a system that burns food to keep the price up.

Capitalism is a global system and it fails misribly in even supplying the most basic needs of survival for so many. In a world of plenty it is a crime that someone should die of starvation. Capitalism is the reason why that food never found its way to those dead or dying of starvation.

[rouchambeau]

I say blame everything on capitalism. They would blame everything on us if the shoe was on the other foot.

That's no reason to blame things that have little to do with capitalism on capitalism. What we are looking for in this thread is not how to use the oppression of others to blame capitalism when doing so would never help those oppressed by things other than capitalism.


I cannot think of a reason while capitalism should not be blamed for anything.

I can. It doesn't help the problems that have nothing to do with capitalism. Besides, sexism existed looooong before capitalism. It would be wrong to ignore patriarchy for the sake of your fetish with class war.

[Sabocat]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2006, 03:13 PM
I agree with rochambeau. Culture plays a great role in the evils of society. Capitalism is just a piece of the puzzle.
Who can be sure of what the actual culture is? Capitalism created (or greatly influenced) the current culture.

[RebelDog]

I can. It doesn't help the problems that have nothing to do with capitalism. Besides, sexism existed looooong before capitalism. It would be wrong to ignore patriarchy for the sake of your fetish with class war.

Poverty existed before capitalism.
I'm not saying capitalism invented things like sexism. I am saying capitalism perpetuates it and promotes it and is thus complicit. If we cannot achieve equallity of the sexes in capitalism we cannot blame it for such? What responsability does capitalism have? Where should we draw the line in society and why? Is not our culture inextricably linked with our economic reality, ie, the family?

[Maynard]

Yes, sexism, homophobia, poverty, war, religion and pretty much everything that we see as wrong existed before capitalism. But that is not to say that we can't blame it. All of these things naturally occur out of the dividing of society into classes and will continue to occur as long as long as society is divided into classes. Since Capitalism needs a class system in order to exist, if we live in a capitalist society, then its safe to blame Capitalism for everything that is wrong. We can't blame Capitalism for Hurricane Katrina, though some may say global warming but we can blame capitalism for the horrendous response to it happening, because of the institutionalised racism that Capitalism sustains and not only sustains but needs.


I agree to a certain extend
To what extent and why? If that thing can't be identified, why believe in it to any extent? Surely it's not Human nature, no communist would hold the view that it's in human nature to be sexist or greedy etc.


she agrees with me to some degree
To what degree?


But she always tells me that I have to look at human nature and what made us that way
Well, what is natural here and now, was sure as hell not natural 500 years ago and it won't be natural 500 years from, which really leads to the conclusion that "Human Nature" isn't so natural after all.


probably wont go away after capitalism is destroyed simply because of the destruction of capitalism.
You mean it never will? There is no denying that after Socialism or Communism is in place, it will take some time for people to shake all of the ideas they held under capitalism but after a length of time, there would no reason to be a sexist for instance, because it will not benefit anyone at all to do so, unlike what it does under capitalism.


so capitalism must not be the root cause of those issues
Yes, the division of society into classes is! And Capitalism divides society into classes, so it is the problem. If we lived in a feudal society, then feudalism would be the cause of all the problems, because it allowed for the division of society into classes.


Culture plays a great role in the evils of society
What do you mean? I don't think you can separate "culture” from the economic superstructure which sustains it.


The other 'thing' is most likely the human impulse to survive
Well, that impulse is wrong then. Because no other system has brought the human race closer to destruction than capitalism.


I say blame everything on capitalism. They would blame everything on us if the shoe was on the other foot.
I agree with the rest of your post but we should not just blame it, because they'd do the same. We can do it because it is correct to do so


I find is that a lot of working class people often fail to make a link between the economic ststem that enslaves us and the society it creates.
That is exactly what I've found as well and it is the most pressing concern of the communist movement. To show the working class that everything does come back to Capitalism, nothing exists in isolation, war is an inevitable product of capitalism, as is sexism, as is the misery workers experience worldwide. We need to make that clear, otherwise why would anyone fight against it?

[rouchambeau]

I think you've got me wrong. I'm saying that abolishing capitalism in itself will not eliminate sexism.

[Rawthentic]

Not immediately, but as a communist society is established, yes. Problems such as sexism stem form the capitalist sytem of production, a necessary discrmination in order to keep the working class oppressed and the capitalist system in power. If the capitalist system of production is eliminated along with the societal relations that it creates, such as sexism, then it will go away.