N.O.I

[Yamashita]

Im just wondering what anyone here thinks of Nation Of Islam or NOI. Which is well known Black Islamist group in America. If there are any supporters here i would like to hear what you think.

The thing is, i didn't know much about this group, until i researched it. And i found some very interesting things.

The first thing that caught my attention is, why Islam?
Well, this group says that blacks were originally Muslims when brought to America, and where "christianized", thus why they have "christian" names and why Cassius Clay changed his name to Mohammed Ali.

Well, that was the first sign that this group was not to be taken seriously. Funny, because if this group would actually know even a bit about history and basically of their own ancestors, they would know that probably all of the slaves brought from Africa were from Western Africa what is now Cameroon and Nigeria for example. These people were not muslims they practiced their own indigenous religion, like Yoruba. Although im sure Islam was present with certain tribes further north, but that is even the more ironic! How do you think Islam came to Africa? If NOI believes Mohammed was black then they have serious issues! Islam is no different than Chirstianity when it comes to the continent of Africa and Africans. Islam was just as forced to the indigenous Africans by Islamic masters as Christianity by the Westerners.

And finally, the one thing that made me laugh more than anything. But really made me wonder how such ignorance can still be present in the 21st century, is the stance of NOI on the caucasian race. Nation Of Islam says that the white man was created by black scientist named Yakub, and then the white man would rule the earth for 6,000 years and then be taken out of power by the black man.

Is there anyone who actually believes this crap? Or that supports this obviously fallacious group of racist extremists?

[Raisa]

The nation of islam does some good things for peoples lives where their having problems but Im not sure anyone here really supports them.

Many muslims believe islam is too broad to be contained in the views of the Nation of Islam, second of all we arent supposed to talk about the prophet mohammads race...because it doesnt matter.
Thats why he isnt depicted in art.

[Janus]

The NOI has been criticized for being racist, anti-semitic, homophobic, and sexist.

Not many people here support this religious group.

[Yamashita]

The nation of islam does some good things for peoples lives where their having problems

Can you please give some examples of these "good things" they have done? Well im sure it has only been for black Americans eitherway.


second of all we arent supposed to talk about the prophet mohammads race...because it doesnt matter.
Thats why he isnt depicted in art.

Well i don't have to follow those laws, and i can talk about him, and i can assure you he was Arab, meaning not a negroid. Just like Christians depict Jesus as this white guy with blonde hair, that's just bogus! We all know Jesus looked much like the people of the Middle East look like.

So i see you are Muslim, are you from the Middle East, or are you American? I mean if you are a black Muslim American?

[Janus]

Can you please give some examples of these "good things" they have done? Well im sure it has only been for black Americans eitherway.
Support services for poor neighborhoods.

[Yamashita]

Support services for poor neighborhoods.

Yes, but like what? Thats what i want to know. What type of support services?What sort of philanthropist work is it they do?

[Janus]

Yes, but like what? Thats what i want to know. What type of support services?What sort of philanthropist work is it they do?
Check their website.

NOI ec. programs (http://www.noi.org/3year-econ.html)

[The Sloth]

no serious leftist, especially no serious leftist here, could ever support that stoopid group.

[Yamashita]

I checked it, so i see the "philanthropist" work basically consists of donating 10 dollars a month to the NOI, to help them in their "farm work". They than harvest crops and SELL it right back to you!! How is this support service? In fact it's nothing more than another way of NOI to make money! :wacko: incredible

[Janus]

You should ask a NOI supporter that.

I'm just pulling out the research.

The NOI has a do-for-self philosophy that resulted in the NOI owning and operating hundreds of businesses nationwide, employing thousands of people. The NOI has purchased and now operates food-industry services, bakeries, and restaurants. It owns a large amount of farmland in Georgia, USA. It owns and operates hair-care shops. Some of these business ventures have been success stories. Others have been criticized as Amway-style marketing schemes that have not benefited most of their employees.

The NOI has worked to clean up drug addicts, reform prostitutes, and keep black youth out of gangs. It has helped some newly released ex-convicts make a new start and stay out of jail.

In The Fire Next Time, James Baldwin wrote:

"Elijah Muhammad has been able to do what generations of welfare workers and committees and resolutions and reports and housing projects and playgrounds have failed to do: to heal and redeem drunkards and junkies, to convert people who have come out of prison and to keep them out, to make men chaste and women virtuous, and to invest both the male and the female with pride and a serenity that hang about them like an unfailing light. He has done all these things, which our Christian church has spectacularly failed to do." (James Baldwin, The Fire Next Time, Vintage International, 1963)
During the 1980s crack cocaine epidemic, the United States Department of Housing and Urban Development employed several private firms run by members of the Nation of Islam to provide security in housing projects in black neighborhoods. The Anti-Defamation League was successful in lobbying congress to sever the HUD contracts

[Raisa]

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2006, 04:52 PM
So i see you are Muslim, are you from the Middle East, or are you American? I mean if you are a black Muslim American?

I was born in the United States, my blood is mediterranean and I was raised alot of my life in a Puerto Rican family with puerto rican culture.

And The Prophet could have just as easily been black but it doesnt matter.

THere were definately not alot of whites down there. There was east africans and arabs in the middle east. But his appearance is not important.

[Yamashita]

I was born in the United States, my blood is mediterranean and I was raised alot of my life in a Puerto Rican family with puerto rican culture.

And The Prophet could have just as easily been black but it doesnt matter.

THere were definately not alot of whites down there. There was east africans and arabs in the middle east. But his appearance is not important.

Ok , cool, your blood is Mediterranean? ok that could mean your from Tunisia to Cyprus to Israel to Greece lol.

So you were raised in a Puerto Rican family, interesing. How did you end up becoming a Muslim than? Were they already Muslims?

There were no whites down there? You mean in the Middle East in the Arabian peninsula during the time of Mohammed? In fact blue eyed blon hair mommies have been found in the Chinese province which borders Afghanistan and Kazakhstan etc. But you can also say there weren't many blacks "down there" either! East Africans, you mean like those from Ethiopia and Djibuti? Well they are ethnically different than the slaves brought to America from Western Africa.

I suggest you read about Arab slavery : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_slave_trade

[Morag]

The Qu'ran was given to Mohammed in Arabic, which was his language, and at that time, a much less common language then it is today. It is entirely likely that Mohammed was either purely Arabic, or mostly Arabic with some other Semetic nations tossed in. His people were fairly settled and well-known in and around Mecca, an established family that was fairly powerful, but he was born and raised in a market town that saw a lot of people from all over the Arabian peninsula make it their home, at least temporarily. Trade routes with Eastern Africa, (Ethiopia and Djibouti) were very important in current Yemen, however, the migration of people was less common between the two until the end of the Caliphate period.

Based on these facts, I don't take the NOI's beliefs about Mohammed seriously, but I can still respect their work in communities.

[Tarik]

Many historians think that without the NOI the segregation would never have fallen so quickly.
I'm not a serious expert of this organization, but I know that the NOI is still influential and popular in poorest area of all the USA.

I have a question, if somebody know it.Are the "Black Panthers" different of the NOI?

[Janus]

Many historians think that without the NOI the segregation would never have fallen so quickly.
Segregation didn't fall very quickly, it was a gradual process that NOI participated in.


Are the "Black Panthers" different of the NOI?
Yes, they are not spiritual and are mainly political.

[Yamashita]

Based on these facts, I don't take the NOI's beliefs about Mohammed seriously, but I can still respect their work in communities.

I still demand to know what are these "philanthropist" work that the NOI does in the communities!?

Is it the example Janus gave me? Of the donations given to NOI for them to buy land to farm, and then sell back the produce to the community? Sound great, but to me it sounds like a great capitalist way of making a profit, sounds like great business for the leaders! Not dumb at all, specially when you catagorize it as "community work".

[Janus]

There's more on the site.

http://www.muhammadfarms.com/

I couldn't find stuff about any city services but it seems that they do try to help black farmers.

[Yamashita]

Janus , that website is pretty much just propaganda news, and "Donations" to the farm, and the Harvest schedule, and pretty much nothing which talks about community work! hehehe I know your trying hard, but still not working friend.

[Janus]

hehehe I know your trying hard, but still not working friend.
Websites are for propaganda. As far as I know, NOI mainly helps out black people particularly farmers and businesses.

What's not working? I'm not trying to persuade you about the intentions of the NOI, I'll leave that up to a NOI member. ;)

[Janus]

and pretty much nothing which talks about community work
Look further, there's stuff about farming co-ops and land ownership,etc.

[Yamashita]

Websites are for propaganda. As far as I know, NOI mainly helps out black people particularly farmers and businesses.

What's not working? I'm not trying to persuade you about the intentions of the NOI, I'll leave that up to a NOI member.

I guess they help black farmers set up a business, this is not philanthropist work. Im not talking about you convincing me, that would be impossible by anyone. What i was talking about is about you showing me the "community work".


Look further, there's stuff about farming co-ops and land ownership,etc

It's called business, not philanthropist work.

[Janus]

It's called business, not philanthropist work.

Helping to establish food co-ops does not mean that they are trying to further their business endeavors.

http://www.muhammadfarms.com/food_coops_ar...the_country.htm (http://www.muhammadfarms.com/food_coops_around_the_country.htm)

As for their city work, you'll have to talk with a NOI member 'cause I can't find much on it.

[Janus]

Yamashita,

rather than ask me to do your research for you; you should either look it up yourself (I have already provided you the links) or talk to a NOI member about it.