Chinese workers movement

[bloody_capitalist_sham]

Obviously china is now one of the largest capitalist powers.

We have statistics which also show large wealth inequality between peasants, workers and the new "middle class" and then the actual business men.

Since the Chinese Communist Party is about as Red as tony blair, is there going to be a new workers movement?

[Fidelbrand]

No, there won't.

Most (not all) are enjoying State capitalism as it is.

Just take it. It's a fact.

But you can expect that the government is taking steps to lower the disparity between the poor and the rich. It is doing a reasonable job, no words blathered but un-done so far.

[Matty_UK]

Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2006, 05:13 PM
No, there won't.

Most (not all) are enjoying State capitalism as it is.

Just take it. It's a fact.

But you can expect that the government is taking steps to lower the disparity between the poor and the rich. It is doing a reasonable job, no words blathered but un-done so far.
Sorry but that's bull....think of all the sweatshop workers, are they loving it? Has any working class perspective actually been mentioned in the media at all?

They may have loved it at first, but no doubt by now they're tasting a bit of bitterness. Hell, radicals in Europe loved it when modern capitalist democracy came about but it wasn't long at all before it caused problems and left a sour taste.

[Enragé]

there is some sort of a movement, though in all likelyhood its scattered and unorganised due to the repression

http://www.chinalaborwatch.org/

check it out

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Yeah there are thousands of strikes and protests a year from workers and farmers.. but they're not organized. Of course, they need to be to make a real change.

[Red Heretic]

Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2006, 05:13 PM
No, there won't.

Most (not all) are enjoying State capitalism as it is.

Just take it. It's a fact.
Heh... bullshit. Conditions in China are horrifying and unspeakable. I can't tell you how many different revolutionary people I met when I was in China, many of whom were aware that this was revisionism.

There have be several attempts to create a new Maoist vangaurd party in China, particularly, SPARK comes to mind. As far as I know though, they have not yet formed a party, though (they are working with the RIM to do so though, from what I've heard).

[Janus]

There have been a lot of farmer's protests due to the corruption going on in rural areas but most of these are repressed.

There are also some worker's protests and marches by many of the older workers but like others have said, they are quite isolated. I suppose some of them want to return to the "good old days" under Mao.

[Xiao Banfa]

There were something like 70,000 protests (many of them full-on riots) in 2005.
When I went to China early this year there was a presence of an opinion that wanted socialism.

China would be the awesomest place to implement socialism. Since chinese workers are very productive and they have a sense of solidarity.

[Matty_UK]

I'm spending 6 months in China come febuary. Would be interesting to talk to some people about revolutionary socialism in today's climate.

[Janus]

Since chinese workers are very productive and they have a sense of solidarity.
Most of them are just trying to get by; I wouldn't say that we should get our hopes up too soon.

[Fidelbrand]

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2006, 11:45 PM

Since chinese workers are very productive and they have a sense of solidarity.
Most of them are just trying to get by; I wouldn't say that we should get our hopes up too soon.
exactly.

[Fidelbrand]

Originally posted by Matty_UK+Aug 7 2006, 01:58 AM--> (Matty_UK @ Aug 7 2006, 01:58 AM)
[email protected] 6 2006, 05:13 PM
No, there won't.

Most (not all) are enjoying State capitalism as it is.

Just take it. It's a fact.

But you can expect that the government is taking steps to lower the disparity between the poor and the rich. It is doing a reasonable job, no words blathered but un-done so far.
Sorry but that's bull....think of all the sweatshop workers, are they loving it? Has any working class perspective actually been mentioned in the media at all?

They may have loved it at first, but no doubt by now they're tasting a bit of bitterness. Hell, radicals in Europe loved it when modern capitalist democracy came about but it wasn't long at all before it caused problems and left a sour taste. [/b]
Sorry, but just like blacks in U.S. , they want to climb up the social ladder.

Leftists should stop putting feelings/words into the workers mouth, and STOP ASSUMING. We can do propaganda and education and inspire them that they can.. and have the right to resists, but we can't just feel for them at present since Deng did a whole lot of a job to mould people into the thnking of " Getting rich is not a crime"...... For this case (China), I hope you take my objective observation, I'm a bloody Chinese.

Of course they will whine when they suffer or are oppressed, but think of the state apparatus of China, then you will know that people 1) don't want to get in trouble ; 2) people want to get rich admist rapid economic growth.

Please realise this and stop dreaming.

Dream elsewhere maybe, as directed by Marx, those highly capitalised country like U.S. is the warm-bed for revolution.

[redhmong]

Maybe some want it, like me. But it is difficult.

The workers haven't been organized. They cannot be a big fist. The website of Chinese workers(http://www.zggr.org/) be forced to close is an example. Whether the most want a campaign? I do not dare to say yes.

Since Deng, the voice of revolution has been far away from China. If we want it, we need do something just like Fidelbrand asid 'We can do propaganda and education and inspire them that they can.. and have the right to resists'.

[Janus]

Fidelbrand put it very nicely. A lot of Chinese people are simply trying to better their lives and work hard in order to move up the societal ladder. Of course, a lot of it also has to do with traditional work values but as long as the economy continues to expand, this will be the norm.


The website of Chinese workers(http://www.zggr.org/) be forced to close is an example.
Hmm...I heard about that. Very typical of the Chinese police to do things such as that.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

Originally posted by Fidelbrand+Aug 7 2006, 07:31 PM--> (Fidelbrand @ Aug 7 2006, 07:31 PM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2006, 01:58 AM

[email protected] 6 2006, 05:13 PM
No, there won't.

Most (not all) are enjoying State capitalism as it is.

Just take it. It's a fact.

But you can expect that the government is taking steps to lower the disparity between the poor and the rich. It is doing a reasonable job, no words blathered but un-done so far.
Sorry but that's bull....think of all the sweatshop workers, are they loving it? Has any working class perspective actually been mentioned in the media at all?

They may have loved it at first, but no doubt by now they're tasting a bit of bitterness. Hell, radicals in Europe loved it when modern capitalist democracy came about but it wasn't long at all before it caused problems and left a sour taste.
Sorry, but just like blacks in U.S. , they want to climb up the social ladder.

Leftists should stop putting feelings/words into the workers mouth, and STOP ASSUMING. We can do propaganda and education and inspire them that they can.. and have the right to resists, but we can't just feel for them at present since Deng did a whole lot of a job to mould people into the thnking of " Getting rich is not a crime"...... For this case (China), I hope you take my objective observation, I'm a bloody Chinese.

Of course they will whine when they suffer or are oppressed, but think of the state apparatus of China, then you will know that people 1) don't want to get in trouble ; 2) people want to get rich admist rapid economic growth.

Please realise this and stop dreaming.

Dream elsewhere maybe, as directed by Marx, those highly capitalised country like U.S. is the warm-bed for revolution. [/b]
I'd have to agree with Fidelbrand. There's too much assuming and dreaming and to little facing the reality. Let the current reality be your friend, stop fighting it. What you can do is to fight for the future, fight now. But if you are struggling and don't want to face the facts then you are hitting yourself in the face.

Fidelbrand should know about this better than all of us; he is Chinese.

[Janus]

Fidelbrand should know about this better than all of us; he is Chinese.
The last three members who posted before you were all Chinese. :ph34r:

[Karl Marx's Camel]

I did not know! :ph34r:

[chimx]

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/1999/china.50/inside.china/art.overview/link.1989.tiananmen.jpg

[Janus]

I don't know why you posted that pic.

The tank man was just trying to take the groceries home; he wasn't in a worker's movement, I swear. :P :lol:

[Ander]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2006, 12:45 PM
Fidelbrand should know about this better than all of us; he is Chinese.
I don't see how this has ANYTHING to do with this AT ALL.

Wow, he's Chinese! That must mean he has a telepathic mind link to the other billion (+) of his countrymen.

Be serious, I'm Canadian but I definitely don't pretend to know what Canadians think. That's ridiculous.

[Janus]

I don't see how this has ANYTHING to do with this AT ALL.
I think NWOG mainly meant that Fidelbrand has a better "vantage point" with which to look at the situation in China there not that his word is it or that he is all-knowing.

[rebelworker]

Ive heard that the workers rebellions have been quite huge in some areas but that the goverment has been very effective at keeping them isolated.

With state controll of comunication and movement it must be very hard to link up struggles.

[4514]

ccp-chinese captilist party.
if you had the choice of wiping out the ccp or the u.s imperialists
who would you choose?
my mind says the u.s cuz it would benefit all of the leftist movement but my heart says the ccp cuz im sick of these people who claim the left but are nothing more than our enemies, they run all of us into the dirt whether your a commie or an anarchist or whoever from the left, they tarnish our cause and it just fucks me off.
they're like scabs in the work place-no guts, no principles.
x4514x

[Janus]

Ive heard that the workers rebellions have been quite huge in some areas but that the goverment has been very effective at keeping them isolated.
Farmer's rebellions, maybe. Haven't heard all that much about huge worker's strikes...yet.

[Fidelbrand]

Originally posted by Jello+Aug 9 2006, 08:36 AM--> (Jello @ Aug 9 2006, 08:36 AM)
[email protected] 8 2006, 12:45 PM
Fidelbrand should know about this better than all of us; he is Chinese.
I don't see how this has ANYTHING to do with this AT ALL.

Wow, he's Chinese! That must mean he has a telepathic mind link to the other billion (+) of his countrymen.

Be serious, I'm Canadian but I definitely don't pretend to know what Canadians think. That's ridiculous. [/b]
Calm down, when he said "know better" I guess it's just my geogrpahic proximity.

I also don't bull or dream-weave my ideal reality of PRC. I present it as it is, and the reality is not good at all from a communist point of view.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

I think NWOG mainly meant that Fidelbrand has a better "vantage point" with which to look at the situation in China there not that his word is it or that he is all-knowing.


Yes. That was what i meant.



Calm down, when he said "know better" I guess it's just my geogrpahic proximity.


Yes, exactly. That was what i meant.

[Severian]

Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2006, 11:13 AM
No, there won't.

Most (not all) are enjoying State capitalism as it is.

Just take it. It's a fact.

But you can expect that the government is taking steps to lower the disparity between the poor and the rich. It is doing a reasonable job, no words blathered but un-done so far.
No, that's your opinion.

These are facts:

According to Mr Zhou, there were some 74,000 protests last year, involving more than 3.7m people; up from 10,000 in 1994 and 58,000 in 2003. Sun Liping, a Chinese academic, has calculated that demonstrations involving more than 100 people occurred in 337 cities and 1,955 counties in the first 10 months of last year. This amounted to between 120 and 250 such protests daily in urban areas, and 90 to 160 in villages. These figures are likely to be conservative. Chinese officials often try to cover up disturbances in their areas to avoid trouble with their superiors.
from the Economist (http://www.economist.com/world/asia/displayStory.cfm?story_id=4462719), Zhou is China's top cop.

Note that many of those protests are urban, so it certainly ain't just peasants.

I couldn't find exact stats on numbers of strikes. But there certainly have been many. And large ones. Sometimes including fighting with thousands of cops and soldiers.

All this is done in defiance of law and repression.

It could be argued this is already a workers' movement, despite the lack of national organization and clear common purpose. But that would be an opinion.

***

"Obviously china is now one of the largest capitalist powers. "

Sometimes what "everyone knows" is just what some people think.

The restoration of capitalism is still underway - an ongoing battle. The social and economic consequences for working people are fueling much of the unrest.

Mere changes of political regime - one faction of the CCP deposing another - seem to have been perceived as much less significant by most workers, huh? Few people got involved, anyway.

Sensibly - the economic basis of society has much more significance. And that's still being changed.

[chebol]

Some useful articles on the topic of capitalist restoration in China, for those who are interested, and some info on the extant movement against it (weak though that is):

http://www.dsp.org.au/links/back/issue27/Karadjis.htm
http://www.dsp.org.au/links/back/issue27/Cheng.htm
http://www.dsp.org.au/links/back/issue27/Hu_letter.htm
http://www.dsp.org.au/dsp/19990105.htm

http://www.greenleft.org.au/back/2005/628/628p15.htm
http://www.greenleft.org.au/back/2006/669/669p20.htm
http://www.greenleft.org.au/back/2005/639/639p20.htm
http://www.greenleft.org.au/back/2006/664/664p24.htm
http://www.greenleft.org.au/back/2006/662/662p20.htm
http://www.greenleft.org.au/back/2006/661/661p20.htm
http://www.greenleft.org.au/back/2006/653/653p24.htm
http://www.greenleft.org.au/back/2004/605/605p23.htm
http://www.greenleft.org.au/back/2005/638/638p19.htm

[bolshevik butcher]

From what I have read strikes and protests (especially those by poor peaseants) and demonstrations by workers are on the rise. Also apparently workers are beggining to organise into unions, illegally, this has lead to seperate strikes coordcianting, all be it on a small level. The chinese working class is growing at a vast rate and when it awakens will be argugably the strongest force in history.