Did It Ever Dawn On You?!

[Raisa]

If Americans and the American government really saw the human beings living in the middle east as PEOPLE, they would fucking consider supporting the progressive forces of change in the middle east that are already there to end these fucked up regimes instead of thinking they got the right to run in there and "liberate" people.

Are people in the middle east fucking incompetant idiots?
Is that what you think?

Probably, cuase the news is racist and portrays people in the middle east as savages so you can keep watching, when there are many civil rights movements that arent even a fucking secret.

Look into civil rights movements, and peoples movements and support them. Consider that. Iran is not full of a bunch of fucking retards.
THeir not CONGRESS>
There are alot of intellegent people there. Support them instead of advocating your governments right to "invade" their country, and show the people some respect.

No one ever thought of that?

Cause aint nobody want your government there any damn way!

[Severian]

Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2006, 03:52 AM
If Americans and the American government really saw the human beings living in the middle east as PEOPLE, they would fucking consider supporting the progressive forces of change in the middle east that are already there to end these fucked up regimes instead of thinking they got the right to run in there and "liberate" people.damn way!
No, because the U.S. government is not in the business of social progress.

But Uncle Sam certainly is looking into how to use and exploit Iranian opposition forces in order to bring about "regime change" in a way that helps them regain control of Iran. That's why they've still got the Mujahedeen Khalq on a base in Iraq, for example. (Google 'em up if you're curious.)

Washington tried to do that for a long time in Iraq, too. They gave up after 12 years or so and finally invaded. Of course they didn't support the '91 uprising because it wouldn't have served their interests - rather its victory woulda put Iraq even further outside their control.


Support them instead of advocating your governments right to "invade" their country, and show the people some respect.

Two problems with that:

1. You're giving tactical advice to Washington on how to achieve its goals - as if its goals weren't the main problem.

and

2. You're looking to Washington to solve a problem - in this case the Iranian regime - even if it's by supporting "progressive forces" there.

[colonelguppy]

what ever sense of progress there is among people in the middle east is probably choked out by religous strife. i say we just stay away from the region untill they get their shit together.

[Janus]

A lot of that civil strife is due to the US.

The fundies gain more strength whenever the West is deemed to be a threat.

[colonelguppy]

the whole shiite/sunni thing has been going on sense mohammed died, i don't think the US not intervening is going to put an end to that.

basically, they need exposure to the west, inorder to be secularized. war probably won't work, free trade will only work if the countries were dealing with allow it. i really see no solution other than time.

[Janus]

basically, they need exposure to the west, inorder to be secularized.
That is one of the things that is stirring up strife in the Middle East. There is a growing backlash against the Western influences and this is precisely why the fundamentalists are increasing in power.

[colonelguppy]

give it time though. theres already quite a bit of a counter culture in iran growing. whther this is caused by the west or just by general dislike of hte government is debatable.

reactionaries generally lose in the long run.

[Raisa]

Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2006, 05:39 PM
what ever sense of progress there is among people in the middle east is probably choked out by religous strife. i say we just stay away from the region untill they get their shit together.
You know, you should just stay away from their religion in general.

If you arent a muslim, dont fuck with muslim peoples religion. Cause on some real reference shit, Islam does not tolerate people trying to imperialise on their faith. It says it in the Quaran that that is not tolerated in the least. Id if I was one of the people who thought I had a right to mess with a muslim persons faith....... Id check myself real quick.

[Raisa]

Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2006, 05:51 PM
the whole shiite/sunni thing has been going on sense mohammed died, i don't think the US not intervening is going to put an end to that.

basically, they need exposure to the west, inorder to be secularized. war probably won't work, free trade will only work if the countries were dealing with allow it. i really see no solution other than time.
There are alot of people there who ARE muslims that ALSO want a secular government like that of Turkey or something.
They got movements and shit.

Alot of people do not like the sects of people running the government like that and while faith should be respected in the making of laws most people arent so cool with religious fundamentalist governments.
They always being to run a perverted version of the faith that hangs sixteen year old girls.......

[southernmissfan]

My post from another thread:


1953: The democratically elected government in Iran is overthrown in a CIA coup and the despotic Shah is installed. Why? The populist government there intended on nationalizing the oil industry, which was controlled by the US and UK. SAVAK, the Shah's secret police, is founded a few years later (with the assistance of the CIA).

1979: The Iranian people, having had enough of the puppet dictator, overthrow the Shah in a revolution unfortunately hijacked by religous fundamentalists. This would lead to a resurgence of fundamentalism throughout the Muslim world. Khomeini actually recieved support from the CIA due to its fears of the large left-wing presence in the revolution.

1980: Saddam Hussein's Iraq, encouraged by the US, launches an invasion of Iran, starting the Iran-Iraq War. For the next 8 years, the two nations would engage in one of the bloodiest wars in the post-Vietnam era. The US supported Saddam with economic and financial aid, dual-use technology, intelligence, weapons, and even direct attacks on Iran. Of course, the US also sold weapons to Iran (Iran-Contra Scandal) to fund anti-communist guerrillas in Nicaragua.

What needs to happen in the Muslim world is their own 1789--their own bourgeoisie, democratic revolutions than can develop them into modern capitalist nations and hopefully kill as many imams as possible along the way. Of course, Western imperialism, being the driving reactionary force in the world has often prevented this from happening and opposed most changes in this direction, and it's brutal actions in the region have served only to bolster backwards fundamentalism. The resurgence of fundamentalism in the region is a direct result of the Iranian Revolution and other instances of backlash against imperialism. I would imagine the only thing keeping the regime in Tehran together is the threat of the US. Otherwise, I imagine the people, especially the youth, would have already revolted.