Lets all decend upon one country and make it work - We shoul

[Unrelenting Steve]

I dont know alot about how to practicly take over the world, but I think it would be alot easier if we had a base of operation a country that really was communist that could also serve as a example.
If you agree with me on that;
Why not South Africa, we truely have the most potencial in the world, we have extremely hight unemployment and suffering caused throught capitalism (making adverting real easy) coupled with a brilliant infrastructure, thats also very self sufficent from our old Aparteid days (they had to be able to cope with the sanctions). I really think it shows the greatest promise of all the countries today, we are already quiet communist in our constitution (which isnt upheld) and the communist party is pretty big (but not too big as it is clearly not very good as its controled by the ruling party that has it in a "coalition") It otherwise says all the right things and states all the right things.

So come to South Africa and lets produce something for the world to gawk at.
(but no human right abuses like China and no anti rilgeon stuff, as there is no way to prove there is no God let us not assume for the poeple that there is no good, it is that type of control that we can be critized for, so lets not give them that from which they can possibly try to make us as being the next "China")

So tell me? Do you think im hight?

[Dirty Commie]

I've been thinking the same thing, except we do it in amerikkka and start a communal city, we live there and avoid all taxes by not using amerikkkan currency, and cover the property taxes by selling... um... plants.

[Unrelenting Steve]

Theyd probably put you on a trade embargo. lol

[Dirty Commie]

Ever stoned teenager in the country will come to my city, the town exists in my mind, so every one is welcome to submit comments.

[Unrelenting Steve]

Oh, I didnt quiet understand the plant referance, then your city would be taken by force, that would be quiet a convienant excuse for your goverment to quash you. You cant make your meddow on the lions den. come to Africa!

[redstar2000]

... and no anti religion stuff, as there is no way to prove there is no God...

So, just in case there is one, we want "Him" on our side???

My general opinion is that "communists have no country" and should feel free to go wherever there is useful revolutionary work to be done.

But I don't think "descending" on a particular place is much of a strategy.

As I've said in other posts, I've done all I can to encourage American leftists to move to Western Europe...because I think that is where the next massive working class revolution will take place.

But if I were a young African-American communist, I would certainly consider South Africa as a place where some very good work might be done and the possibility of interesting developments exists. Likewise, if I were a young Hispanic-American communist, I would certainly have my eye on both Argentina and Venezuela at this time.

But we have to remember that revolutionary situations are created by classes themselves, not by the presence or absence of conscious communists. Our presence is a "plus" (usually...there have been exceptions to that) but far from decisive.

Since there are so few of us, it makes sense to carefully consider where we can be most effective...but not to fall into the illusion that we are so "powerful" that if enough of us show up in one place, it's all over for capitalism.

Things don't work that way.

:cool:

[Unrelenting Steve]

all I was saying was just incase there is one, lets not be the ones with the presumption to choose for everyone in a particular nation.

"But we have to remember that revolutionary situations are created by classes themselves, not by the presence or absence of conscious communists. Our presence is a "plus" (usually...there have been exceptions to that) but far from decisive. "

By all rights we should be a communist state, the only reason we are not is that the poor are too ignorant. And stay that way throught lies from politicians that poeple dont have the ability to see through, if we had an ounce of insight injected into the masses, we could have a revolution over night. We have a class problem and have had a class problem since 1600, but this has not produced anything, what we need is education, in big large communsit doses, that where else can be gotten from than the "outside".

[kiwisocialist]

I've always thought the Pacific Islands would be a place to go. They basically operated as communists until British and French Imperialism won out. Now they are facing huge unemployment, a lack of land ownership, a lack access to education, and of course neo-colonialism from Australia, New Zealand, and the usual suspects.

I now live in Australia (not because the revolution took me here, rather my wife) but know from my time in Auckland that socialism is very popular among many Islanders.

How can we help?

[Nobody]

We must educate them to their suffering. Kiwi, you get them angery, and I'll bring the guns and booze. Vive the Revolution!!!

[Emmanual Goldstein]

while you two are there, me and dirty commie will start our communal city, in the mystical land known as Canada. I've been working on building a mini hydroponic system using recycled tires instead of gravel. If the... plants grown in the recycled tire system have the same potency as the ones grown in my old gravel system, we can have a legitamate front as a dump for old tires. Little will they know the THC-fueled socialist revolution being hatched under their very noses!

[scott thesocialist]

hey Emmanual i think i'll come and join you and DC, if thats cool, fuck south africa lets start a country where the weed is free and the people live in peace, while we start the socialist revolution.Then we can spread the movement to scotland and the rest of europe.
peace man.

[Unrelenting Steve]

Kiwisocialist, are you a communist?
I really think we should have some sought of system to distinguish communists from just other forms of socialism. Neway, come to South Africa, join the SACP (South African Communist Party) get them off their asses, part them from the ANC and them on to revolution!!! (we have one of the biggest communisnt parties in the world, its just allied with the rulling party and for some reason (ANC infiltartion) pretty much sitting on its hands)

[Iron Star]

What about Venezuala?

[malachi151]

Didn't the Bolsheviks try that :P

I don't think its a good idea, its just a continuation of the bad ideas of the 20th century.

In true Study of Marx we should know that there is only one way to Socialist Revolution, and that is through Capitalism. This is why Russia failed, Russia went from Feualism to Industrial Feudalism.

What is the best candidate for true Socailaist Revolution?

America of course.

It is already happeneing that the steps are being taken that will lead to ultimate Communism. Communism is achieved by the eliminiation of oppertunity through capitalism. The problem with people trying to force socialism and communism is htat they first never deveop capitalism properly.

America's growing internatinal capitalism wil lead to communism, there is no other way except eventually back to feudalism. Capitlaism is transient, consolidation of resources and power will take place to the point that the capitalist welfare state can no longer maintian and communism will then come ushering in as the only course of action possible.

True communists should today be focused on expiditing capitalist exploitation and technological revolution which will cause the elimination of jobs.

Through computerization and mechanization jobs can be eliminated putting increasing pressure on the welfare state, which will force communism or depression.

[Dirty Commie]

Quote: from Emmanual Goldstein on 4:06 am on June 14, 2003
while you two are there, me and dirty commie will start our communal city, in the mystical land known as Canada. I've been working on building a mini hydroponic system using recycled tires instead of gravel. If the... plants grown in the recycled tire system have the same potency as the ones grown in my old gravel system, we can have a legitamate front as a dump for old tires. Little will they know the THC-fueled socialist revolution being hatched under their very noses!


You are not the enemy of the people, that is a kick @$$ idea.

[ComradeRiley]

Take over Cyprus, it has a small population so it would be easier

[Dirty Commie]

Quote: from ComradeRiley on 6:20 pm on June 14, 2003
Take over Cyprus, it has a small population so it would be easier

Why not florida, we hold the hotels and condominiums hostage, we'll threaten to destroy them if we are attacke, the cappies love their gaint swamp kiling buildings...they'll give in.

[ComradeRiley]

okaaaay

[Kez]

what a load of bullshit

[bolshevik1917]

Well said Kamo

[Emmanual Goldstein]

sigh... I'm sorry that we offended you kamo, bolshevik.

speaking for those of us on the message board who still have something resembling a sense of humor, I'd like to say that sometimes, for those of us engaged in the struggle to build a new, more beautiful world, it's fun to make crazy, unpracticable schemes. You do remember what fun is, don't you?

PS: If not, my plants should be ready in a week or two.... I'll send you a care package with some brownies. THEN you'll remember what fun is! Herb: It's all about the laughter....

[Vinny Rafarino]

Goldstein my boy, perhaps you're on to something here. Flood the capitalis party with care packages. Hopefully after sampling the goods they will all die from an overdose of twinkies.

I'm glad you two comrades were were just playing about 'cos I was about to flame you myself....communist does not mean hippie.

Edit:
I advise against sending "things" via the postal service...Especially if you reside in the US.

(Edited by COMRADE RAF at 10:07 am on June 15, 2003)

[Kez]

fun??
when i wanna have fun i go score a hat trick and claim to be champion of the woorrrrld
or go out and get smashed / laid

fun is not talking bullshit like exibit a *points to this thread*

[Sandanista]

I agree with kamo, its ok to have a laugh when its normal life, but when it comes to the INTERNATIONAL socialist revolution then its not the time or the place

[kiwisocialist]

Go have a laugh in the lounge.

I also feel some people here think the socialist movement is tied up to dope smoking. What makes yiou think that.

Unrelenting Steve - I am a communist, but do not preach it as I believe states must become socialist before the world becomes communist.

I said the pacific islands as I believe that will be the next point of political unrest. We've already seen Nauru, Bouganville, Fiji, and the Solomans. As to exactly what system they'd implement I'm a NZer living in Oz. They can determine it themselves. My point is when the people of PNG or Samoa or whoeverwant to implement Socialism I'll be there to help.

I'm a marxist by the way

[scott thesocialist]

if you people are sooooooo into a revolution why are you sittin on you arse playing on your computer???????
just because some people like to have a laugh doesn't mean they aren't interested, its all nice and easy to say why don't we go there or here but its other thing taking up arms, if want to do it then on you go.don't have go at people cause they like a laughand have an mind that likes to dream!

[oki]

I'm afraid that if you have your potsmoking communist canada country,you'll just sit back and enjoy.
okay I'm more of an anarchist and believe in direct action.so there really is not mutch need for talking about picking a country as a base.yáll should all just do it,whereever you are.find the weanesses in your particulair country's laws and start living the lives you want with people that feel the same.there's no need fro a revolution at all.that's seems like an excuse to not do somethingf right now with your life.there really is nothing that can stop you all from living according to your ideals in most countrys in the world,and you can destroy the system by not taking part in it.demand influence by direct action,no matter what laws they want you to obay!

[Sandanista]

Direct action is individualist.

On the other hand, i dont know how many times i have to say it but the revolution has nothing to do with guns, its the workers seizing the means of production and organising into communes, or societies, whatever word u prefer.

[WUOrevolt]

My friend Harry and I are going to take over Jamaica when we get old enough(were only 14). Anyone is welcome to come to Jamaica when the JCP takes over.

[scott thesocialist]

you are never to young or old to start a revolution, you and henry get right in about it as quickly as possible, go forth and become what you are!

[oki]

Quote: from Sandanista on 1:24 pm on June 16, 2003
Direct action is individualist.

On the other hand, i dont know how many times i have to say it but the revolution has nothing to do with guns, its the workers seizing the means of production and organising into communes, or societies, whatever word u prefer.

yea but one option then is to take means of production away from others,thereby creating conflict.another is to start yoru own means of production and share it with the people that produce,on equal basis.then there ois no conflict,there is a powershift.as soon as you get more of the economy in hand then the capitalists,you start winning.that's direct action.organise and get something done.screw their world.if ppoepl see that it can be different,that is the best motivation.revolution and conflict scares people.it gives gouv. the chance to put you in a corner,to demonise you.direct action worries them mutch more,because there is no way to control that.just my opinion...

[Kez]

fuckin what the fuck....
fuckin bullshit, leave it sandista, not worth arguing with this lot, seriously, if some1 ses they going over to take over friggin jamaica (a backward country) then fuck knows how long it wud take one to persuade them to marxism, not worth it...