Sharon Destroys Any Chance For Peace - No peace under capita

[il Commy]

The Road Map, the way the U$ imperialism tried to get silence for their profits, is on it's way for a complete failure. A few days ago the Hamas (islamic terrorists) were negotianting for a cease-fire. Sharon, who was elected as an 'emergency situation' prime-minister and therefor has an interess in making th 'emergency situation' as long as he can, was of course very frightened.

One of the Hamas leaders was shot by an I.D.F helicopter. Together with him died a few civilians. It was explained as part of the "war on terror", which is actually a war for the capital and the occupation. This killing led to a terrorist act by the Hamas, 9 soldiers and civilians died. That terrorist act led to another killing by the IDF yesterday, this time they haven't succeeded in killing the Hamas leader (Rantisi) - only a woman and her baby. Now the Hamas threatens to commit another terrorist act, and I believe them. The Road Map is doomed.

This shows that there will be no peace under capitalism. Peace can only exist here with full liberation for both nations (which requires the dismantling of all settelments), a right of return for '48's refugees, democracy and equality on both states at the begining and at the united state on the continuation. Capitalism is too obligated too exploitation, occupation, ethnical regime and un-equality. Only socialism can solve the israelis-palestinian problem.



PS: 1125 refuse to serve the army of occupation currently. The horrors of occupation show their signs. In a few years, I might be a part from this statistic.

[Blasphemy]

Only two years, I will be called to the flag to do my part in creating a better world. If I am obliged to do so behind bars, let it be.

[il Commy]

Update: the Hamas has committed a suicide bombing in Jerusalem. There are victims.

This will drag more violence from the israeli side which will drag more violence from the palestinian side etc. The sicle of violence continues. Sharon must be pleased.

[Blasphemy]

9 victims so far, 53 injured, 18 of them badly. We now witness the miserable effects of the American-dictated Road Map. When Israel took a breathe and waited to see General Sharon make peace at last, it has to count the dead.

[Lardlad95]

Do not worry Bush will fix this, he will not pass up his chance to appear as a peacemaker

This situation is far to lucrative for an oppurtunist like Bush to pass up

[il Commy]

Bush doesn't need real peace actions, he needs mostlly talks and good pictures in the newspapers. ?In the time of the elections in the US everyone will be silent, than it will all erupt. Bush might give us temporary quite, but not peace.

And that's what's frightening me.


PS: 16 were killed, 100 were injured. The Security Office and the IDF plans a reveange. Hamas are ready. Many people are going to die. Fuck the occupation.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from il Commy on 6:42 pm on June 11, 2003
Bush doesn't need real peace actions, he needs mostlly talks and good pictures in the newspapers. ?In the time of the elections in the US everyone will be silent, than it will all erupt. Bush might give us temporary quite, but not peace.

And that's what's frightening me.


PS: 16 were killed, 100 were injured. The Security Office and the IDF plans a reveange. Hamas are ready. Many people are going to die. Fuck the occupation.


Thats why i said appear as a peacemaker I honestly think he could give a rat's ass about Palestine

but he needs to appear as if he was a incredible president

By winning a war and bringing "peace" to a war torn nation he has secured his place in the history books

[il Commy]

Well, Clinton tried it. Didn't work.

Fake peace gave us quiet for a small period of time. But when it fell it brought us the bloodiest palestinian uprising since '48.

You can't make peace without disbanding all settlements, without forming a palestinian state with full sovereignty (I hope that's the correct word), without returning all the palestinian refugees and without socialism.

Even if you really want to get elected, you'll fail without these.

[MarxIsGod]

It's too late now to continue to lay blame on people because the blame goes to those who acted out in violence in times of peace in the past. Those who masterminded the assasination of Anwar Sadat back the 70s/80s (I think the 70s but not sure which) destroyed what has probably been the greatest opportunity for peace since the formation of Israel. I believe their can never be peace and the conflict will be decided by violence.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from il Commy on 6:53 pm on June 11, 2003
Well, Clinton tried it. Didn't work.

Fake peace gave us quiet for a small period of time. But when it fell it brought us the bloodiest palestinian uprising since '48.

You can't make peace without disbanding all settlements, without forming a palestinian state with full sovereignty (I hope that's the correct word), without returning all the palestinian refugees and without socialism.

Even if you really want to get elected, you'll fail without these.


But remember Bush also has the best Spindoctors in the buisness...they can lie to to teh american public an make it appear as if things have changed

also if he doesn't do it before reelection he can sell reelecting him as the steps necassary to "finish" what he started

[il Commy]

Sadat wasn't the great chance for peace. Even if he kept on living, the israeli-palestinian conflict isn't to be solved under capitalism.

Peace will only exist under socialism. Capitalists want to keep on exploiting the conquered workers, who has no rights because of the occupation. By that they low the "price" of the israeli workers who must now compete with "cheap" (exploited) workers on Jordan and the conquered territories. Capitalists want to seperate the workers and weaken the struggle by religiose hate, building settelments in "holy" places. Capitalists want to clinch the workers to them with nationalist fear about "loosing the jewish majority, this will return us to the holocaust!" (as if the holocaust hasn't took place because of capitalism decline), and that prevents the justified return of the refugees. This is no base for peace.

Socialism, a workers society, has an interest in internationalism. The struggle against Capital is international. Workers has an interst in planning the economy with other nations and has an interest in living peacefuly, not fighting for profits. Therefor socialism is the only way the conflict could be ended, it is the only way for peace.

"Capitalists have interess in exploiting, workers have interess in living together." Someone should use this slogan.

[il Commy]

Quote: from Lardlad95 on 7:26 pm on June 11, 2003
But remember Bush also has the best Spindoctors in the buisness...they can lie to to teh american public an make it appear as if things have changed

also if he doesn't do it before reelection he can sell reelecting him as the steps necassary to "finish" what he started



Forgive me for not jumping off my chair with joy. "Peace with George Bush", LOL!

[scott thesocialist]

yet we have more blood and deaths, with the peace process in total turmoil, we do we go from here, it is clear that both sides don't want peace, the road map is doomed always has been from the start. the killing of innocent civilians on both sides will continue until a solution is found which is well anybodys guess. poeple on both sides have arguements with neither side willing to give a inch. bush's involment just irratates the palestinians he has no right sticking his nose in where its no wanted, clinton tried it never worked the same will happen with bush and all the other US leaders YOU ARE NOT WELCOME IN THE MIDDLE EAST.

[Vinny Rafarino]

I reckon the US wishes Israel never developed a nuclear programme...that's probably the real reason behind french hatred. Israel is virtually impossible to deal with on "any level" if and given the opportunity, I believe they would probably side with palestine...not because they are correct but because they would get much less hassle.

[il Commy]

Update: since the bombing in Jerusalem two Hamas leaders were assassinated. One half an hour after the bombing, it was planned for a long time before the terrorist act. The other, Yasser Taha, was assassinated today in 16:00 along with 7 innocent palestinians including his wife and his two children (3 and 5 y'o). Hamas has declared escalation, Israel doesn't even need to. Another attempt for fake capitalist-zionist peace, The Road Map, has failed.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from il Commy on 7:38 pm on June 11, 2003

Quote: from Lardlad95 on 7:26 pm on June 11, 2003
But remember Bush also has the best Spindoctors in the buisness...they can lie to to teh american public an make it appear as if things have changed

also if he doesn't do it before reelection he can sell reelecting him as the steps necassary to "finish" what he started



Forgive me for not jumping off my chair with joy. "Peace with George Bush", LOL!


Yes I too was a little hesitant to express my exuberance

[scott thesocialist]

i think that we are in for a long and violent period of time with boths sides retailiating for each attack and now israel say they will take any action to destoy Hamas which means more deaths of innocent palestinans and israelis. the end is no where to been seen, its a sad, sorry day for peace in the middle east.

[Severian]

Bottom line: the resistance to the occupation will end only when the occupation ends.

The Oslo accords, Palestinian Authority and police, "road map", etc., all are based on the idea that the PLO leadership must do what the Israeli military could not: crush resistance to the occupation. How did Rabin put it, the PLO could "wage war against terrorism without worrying about what the media or B'tselem say"? (B'tselem is an Israeli human rights group.)

This is the road to a Bantustan headed by Arafat and Abbas, not the road to independence. No surprise that it has failed again.

[Socialsmo o Muerte]

There are so many forums on this issue running parrallel. I thought we agreed to make the one started by scottthesocialist the only one on Palestine?

[KickMcCann]

Hmmm,

I really feel sorry for all these politicians, wether they be American, Euro, Arab, Israeli, no matter what their true ambitions, they do want to solve this problem, and they actually think they can for some reason.
And I also feel sorry for all the people in the world who still believe that this problem, or any hard problem, can be solved by heads-of-state meeting together for lunch and signing declarations and proclamations on this and that.
Hasn't anyone noticed from this conflict, that democracy has proven itself to no longer be a political theory, but a law of life. Democracy states that it is the people who hold the real power, and that leaders have absolutely no power to make real change; regardless of if they are dictators, monarchs, or democraticly elected leaders, they have no power. We have the power. You have the real power.
These politicans make declarations and plans on how they want to shape the world. This situation is no different. Except, the plans never succeed. Why you may ask? Because the people, for better or for worse, exercise there power.

A Hamas suicide bomber, one man, who may consider himself powerless, follows someone else's orders, kills himself and a large group of civilians in Jerusalem. He just stopped the politicians, he has more power than them.

A helicopter pilot in the IDF, who may consider himself powerless, follows someone else's orders, launches an attack, and kills a large group of civilians in Gaza City. He just stopped the politicians, he has more power than them.

But these 2 men weren't following their own free will, they were following the orders of people who are blood-thirsty. The people who ordered these attacks would have absolutely no power if the individual who carried them out resisted, and did something else.

But with nothing else to do, nothing else to believe in, they just follow the demands of others. If we the people, if you the people, would realize your power, then this nightmare would be over. This will never end on the orders of a politician. It will end when people like you get up, stand up, join hands and form a new cause, a real solution. The power is in your hands, use it. If the people like that Hamas memeber, that IDF solider, see something better, see a more loving cause, they will follow, and so will all the people. The solution is not more anger, more fighting, more division. The solution is unity, and love.
I know it sounds like bullshit. So go ahead, don't believe me; Be bitter, be pesimestic, you won't get anywhere. Happiness in the world comes from happiness within. Be happy that it is so easy.

[shockWAVE]

KickMcCann ....you stated this well. I agree. However, I feel that it will still take years and years for healing to begin. Marx aimed a critical label on religion and called it divisive in nature.

...this is true for "western" religion anyway

[scott thesocialist]

yet again we have a failed peace process before it has started, don't the politicians understand that these peace processes don't work and that israel must end the occupation for the palestinians to have any hope that they one day will be free and live in their own land.
if nobody reallys objects we can continue all the forums on this issue here i don't mind but if someone whats to change thats cool.
i fully support an independent paletsine state, where they acn live in peace and get on with their lives, without the fear of the I.D.F roadblocking, house arrests and forcing innocent civilians to wiat hours on end to cross a road.Then the palestinians won't have reason to kill innocent israelis.
THE OCCUPATION MUST END
LIBERATE PALESTINE!

[Blasphemy]

Hamas isn't fighting against the occupation, it is fighting against the Jewish people in Israel. Rantisi has declared that he wishes all Jews to leave Israel and go back to Europe and/or Asia, where they will, of course, be welcomed back with open arms. When he was asked about the Jews who were born in Israel, he said they should be slaughtered. Extremeists Islamic organizations are not a national liberation organization, but fanatic religious organizations which wish to rid Palestine of its infidel Jewish people.

[scott thesocialist]

i agree but you have the same problem in every country fighting against illegal occupation or people fighting for indepentence, you have a group of individuals who always want to go that step to far, we can't deny the fact israel is in the wrong and alot of people on both sides just wanna live in peace. it doesn't mean that everybody wants to kill all the israelis.