Stalin Vs Lenin

[YogiBear]

Could someone tell me if there was any Conflict between Stalin and Lenin? Maybe a difference in views or beliefs as such.

[Rollo]

A lot of different views, I don't know a lot about Stalin but I do know a fair bit about Lenin so feel free to ask any Lenin in particular questions.

WELCOME!

[Led Zeppelin]

There was no conflict between Lenin and Stalin while Lenin was alive. Basically Stalin did whatever Lenin wanted.

[Hiero]

The only conflict was supposably Stalin snaped at Lenin's wife, and so Lenin demanded an appology. I think there is a letter to back this up. It means nothing however.

[Demogorgon]

Lenin didn't trust Stalin particularly well. He felt he was too power hungry, which was rather accurate. This was put in his will but suppressed until Kruschachev's secret speech.

[sav]

From Lenin's testament, written on his deathbed in 1922:

"Comrade Stalin, having become general secretary, has unlimited authority concentrated in his hands, and I am not sure whether he will always be capable of using that authority with sufficient caution."

"Dear Comrade Stalin:

You have been so rude as to summon my wife to the telephone and use bad language. Although she had told you that she was prepared to forget this, the fact nevertheless became known through her to Zinoviev and Kamenev. I have no intention of forgetting so easily what has been done against me, and it goes without saying that what has been done against my wife I consider having been done against me as well. I ask you, therefore, to think it over whether you are prepared to withdraw what you have said and to make your apologies, or whether you prefer that relations between us should be broken off. "

[YogiBear]

I mean conflict as in different views of what russia should be.

[ComradeOm]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2006, 11:15 AM
I mean conflict as in different views of what russia should be.
Stalin had no ideology per se. He changed positions whenever it suited his career. While Lenin was alive he didn't dare offer a conflicting opinion.

[YogiBear]

Well do you think after Lenins death that Stalin might of done some things that would of angered Lenin?

[Janus]

Yes.

Lenin even commented on this in one of his last letters (though he criticized Trotsky as well) but Stalin had it suppressed.

[Wanted Man]

Originally posted by Janus+Aug 1 2006, 09:32 PM--> (Janus @ Aug 1 2006, 09:32 PM) Lenin even commented on this in one of his last letters (though he criticized Trotsky as well) but Stalin had it suppressed. [/b]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenin%27s_Tes...ocument_history (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenin%27s_Testament#Document_history)

Lulz. More fun:


Trotsky
`Eastman says that the Central Committee `concealed' from the Party ... the so-called `will,' ... there can be no other name for this than slander against the Central Committee of our Party .... Vladimir Ilyich did not leave any `will,' and the very character of the Party itself, precluded the possibility of such a `will.' What is usually referred to as a `will' in the émigré and foreign bourgeois and Menshevik press (in a manner garbled beyond recognition) is one of Vladimir Ilyich's letters containing advice on organisational matters. The Thirteenth Congress of the Party paid the closest attention to that letter .... All talk about concealing or violating a `will' is a malicious invention.'

[Amusing Scrotum]

Originally posted by Lenin
Dear Comrade Stalin:

You have been so rude as to summon my wife to the telephone and use bad language. Although she had told you that she was prepared to forget this, the fact nevertheless became known through her to Zinoviev and Kamenev. I have no intention of forgetting so easily what has been done against me, and it goes without saying that what has been done against my wife I consider having been done against me as well. I ask you, therefore, to think it over whether you are prepared to withdraw what you have said and to make your apologies, or whether you prefer that relations between us should be broken off.

Is it just me or does anyone else think that Lenin's comments, quoted above, reek of paternalism? Surely Mrs. Lenin, as an emancipated woman, would have been perfectly capable of fighting her own battles....and telling Joe to fuck off.

[Marxist_Fire]

In the early part of the Russian Revolution, Stalin was really not that different from the other members of the Bolshevik Party. However, when Lenin started to become physically weaker and closer to death, Stalin started to grow power hungry and self-serving. This is not often mentioned in political discourse, but Lenin strongly called for Stalin's removal as General Secretary of the Party in his Last Testament. (You can see the document here: http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/work...amnt/index.htm) (http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1922/dec/testamnt/index.htm)) Leon Trotsky wrote a useful commentary on this document: http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/wo...26/1926-len.htm (http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/works/1926/1926-len.htm)

[ComradeOm]

Originally posted by Armchair [email protected] 1 2006, 11:32 PM
Is it just me or does anyone else think that Lenin's comments, quoted above, reek of paternalism? Surely Mrs. Lenin, as an emancipated woman, would have been perfectly capable of fighting her own battles....and telling Joe to fuck off.
And Stalin could of course have told her to promptly fuck off... never mind issue a formal apology. Or she could mention the matter to her husband, you know the most powerful man in Russia, and let him take care of it.

You're really scrapping the bottom of the barrel here.

[Hit The North]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2006, 10:29 PM
Well do you think after Lenins death that Stalin might of done some things that would of angered Lenin?
The liquidation of the entire Bolshevik leadership might have pissed off Lenin, somewhat!

[bloody_capitalist_sham]

Two big differences between Stalin and Lenin, was that Lenin hated personalty cults, and was an internationalist.

Stalin, gave up on internationalism and employed the use of personality cults.

From when the Bolsheviks formed government, to the death of Lenin (1917-1924) Lenin changed the organizational structure of the state 10 times, including shortly before his death.

So, this would imply, the Leninist Bolsheviks were not happy with the system. So, Stalin was able to manipulate it and eventually turn into a bureaucratic police state.