Fidel Gives Power To Raul

[Ander]

Ailing Castro Gives Power to Brother (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/31/AR2006073101130.html)

The Associated Press
Monday, July 31, 2006; 10:00 PM

HAVANA -- Fidel Castro temporarily relinquished his presidential powers to his brother Monday night and told Cubans he will undergo surgery.

The Cuban leader said in a letter read live on television by his secretary that he had suffered gastrointestinal bleeding, apparently due to stress from recent public appearances in Argentina and Cuba.

Because of that illness, Castro said he was temporarily relinquishing the presidency to his brother and successor Raul, the defense minister, according to the statement read by Carlos Valenciaga.

Thoughts?

[Comrade Marcel]

Let's all hope that he will return to his post ASAP. If for some reason he cannot, the Cuban people will take control of their destiny and uphold socialism to the death.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Yeah.. some people have been saying this was going to happen over the last few weeks.

I talked to some people in Cuba and apparently there's been some sort of mobilization of the CDRs.

They say Fidel will be back in a few weeks, and wants to celebrate his birthday then, with the Cuban people..

The U.S. might try to pull some sort of shit in the mean time, and so we need to alert.

The weird thing is that for the surgery he's getting, recovery is only a day or two (at most).. this could mean a few things.. like that he wants to lay back for two or three weeks to see how things function.. in preperation for the future when he won't be around any more.

Of course, this proves one thing that the enemies of the revolution have been saying for years wrong.. Fidel always said that he would step down if he was ever physically or mentally unable to be president.. and he's done exactly that. So much for "president for life"..

The Cuban revolution is the Cuban people.. not one man, and so it will continue on.. but this is a period that enemies of the revolution may try to take advantage of.

Anyway, Long live comrade Fidel Castro! Long live the Cuban Revolution!

[CubaSocialista]

Originally posted by Lennie [email protected] 1 2006, 03:19 AM
Yeah.. some people have been saying this was going to happen over the last few weeks.

I talked to some people in Cuba and apparently there's been some sort of mobilization of the CDRs.

They say Fidel will be back in a few weeks, and wants to celebrate his birthday then, with the Cuban people..

The U.S. might try to pull some sort of shit in the mean time, and so we need to alert.

The weird thing is that for the surgery he's getting, recovery is only a day or two (at most).. this could mean a few things.. like that he wants to lay back for two or three weeks to see how things function.. in preperation for the future when he won't be around any more.

Of course, this proves one thing that the enemies of the revolution have been saying for years wrong.. Fidel always said that he would step down if he was ever physically or mentally unable to be president.. and he's done exactly that. So much for "president for life"..

The Cuban revolution is the Cuban people.. not one man, and so it will continue on.. but this is a period that enemies of the revolution may try to take advantage of.

Anyway, Long live comrade Fidel Castro! Long live the Cuban Revolution!
If our money-hoarding, corporatist, fundamentalist, gusano-loving excuse for a government even dares to meddle in the affairs of a state sovereign over itself, independent, and socialist, especially Cuba, then I will personally find a way to fight back.


Hasta La Victoria Siempre...

Long Live Fidel. You're in my thoughts and prayers. You have all of my love and admiration for you accomplishments, your speeches, your political personality.

Heroes never die!

and if the FBI is watching these forums (likely) then I don't give a damn if they read this or not. I will not let this state tell other peoples what to do. That's not what I subscribe to, and the American population, being the misguided sheep they are, are hardly competent to rule themselves anymore (unfortunately! but, the educated Cubans are certainly quite well adapted and fit for their electoral system.)


Viva La Revolucion Cubano!

[GoaRedStar]

The US media is already showing pictures of gusanos cheering on the street as if the guy is dead our something.

[Rollo]

The US media is like a 14 year old girl.

[Entrails Konfetti]

Originally posted by Lennie [email protected] 1 2006, 03:19 AM
I talked to some people in Cuba and apparently there's been some sort of mobilization of the CDRs.
What are CDRs?

[Felicia]

heh, I just posted this i newswire.

Unfortunately, I don't think he has much longer.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

CDRs = Committees in Defense of the Revolution

They're formed at the most grass roots levels.. blocks and neighborhoods have them.. tons of people belong to them. They defend the revolution, help people evacuate when there's a hurricane, do local community work, hold public meetings and make local level decisions collectively, etc.

[Izquierdista]

:ph34r: The people will never allow imperialism to harass Cuba's socialism. Fidel will get back on his feet and will be well prepared for the moment that he won't be here anymore. There is nothing to fear.

Viva Fidel.
Viva El Socialismo.
Viva La Revolucion.
Viva Cuba.

Muerte Al Imperialismo.
DEATH TO IMPERIALISM!!!

[Rollo]

Muerte Al imperialismo indeed, Fidel will be around for a few more months or longer with hope. If the US of A try to go into Cuba we're gunna have to form some angry mobs.

[chebol]

Fidel has a little gastro-intestinal bleeding and the world goes crazy. (Would they had paid the same attention to me when I had a bleeding ulcer... :P ).

The nuts in Miami are on the streets celebrating the "death" of "satan". The White House is probably a little shitty, as they might have to allocate more imaginary money to a 'transition' project. The CANF and friends are salivating. The bourgeois press are waiting with bated breath.

And somewhere in Cuba, Fidel is likely recuperating just nicely, thank you very much, and thinking about his 95th birthday, probably with the goal in mind of being retired by then. When he pops up again, get ready for the gnashing of running-dog teeth to echo around the world.

The gusanos are right about one thing (and one thing only). The transition has begun. Fidel is getting on, and the cubans have been planning the succession for years now. Rather than come straight out of hospital, Fidel plans to sit back for a few weeks, and let Cuba get used to the idea of a revolution without him. Useful training, if nothing else.

Or, alternatively, Fidel has died. Either way, Cuba isn't going in any direction but forward. The counter-revolutionaries can trumpet victory all they want - it's nothing new. They've been doing it for decades to no effect.

What Fidel Castro said on October 16, 1953 still stands as a reminder to us all that the struggle is not about individual guerrilleros, but about acheiving outcomes for humanity. "Condenarme, no importa. La historia me absolvera."

Hasta la victoria siempre!
Socialismo o muerte!

[Wanted Man]

LOL, I think the reaction in the media to this is too funny. It's just like when he fell over and broke his kneecap and arm the last time: they all thought it was over, yet he held on for more than a year. I don't think it'll be any different this time.

[Tekun]

Yeah, I just checked out UNIVISION, pictures and images of gusanos celebrating like there was no tomorrow
In addition, the media has "taken the liberty" of misinforming the public about the reality of Cuba
Lies and nonsense that few would believe
I even heard some anchorwoman misquoting Fidel saying that "Fidel had announced last week that he would rule til the age of 100"
Such utter nonsense... :rolleyes:

If Fidel recovers and all goes well, this will come as a severe setback and disappointment to those who wish to impose their own plutocracy
Steps to overthrow the gov may even be taken
However...
If Fidel passes, Raul will take power as long as the threat of a US entanglement is at its highest
Then, hopefully, elections will take place and a new president of the council of state will take power
I am confident that the ppl will defend the revolution if America ever attempts to invade it with its 'state hired killers' or 'agents of the CIA'

For the time being...the revolution will continue as long as the ppl are faithful to it, and from my vantage point, many in Cuba pledge allegiance to the ppl's revolution

There is nothing to fear comrades...

[Solitary Mind]

Myself and Comrade Alex (VIVA FIDEL on this forum) live in Miami and it's saddening to see all these GUSANOS parading the streets, hoping for his death. We went out tonight with our Che shirts (nothing of Fidel available to us) and got beeped at, called "cabrones" by a few people and plain cursed out by others. But it felt good to show all these hijo de putas in Miami that this city has REAL CUBANS to stand up for Castro...

VIVA FIDEL! Y VIVA LA REVOLUCION CUBANA!!!

[*PRC*Kensei]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2006, 03:44 AM
The US media is already showing pictures of gusanos cheering on the street as if the guy is dead our something.
so what, their americans for me, not cubans, they left the country & the revolution, they should stfu.

Viva cuba. & if the us dares to occupy, then i wanna see imperisalist blood, even if i have to get it myself.

Patria ou muerte !

[R_P_A_S]

fuck a gusano from miami beach... mayn!

[Sugar Hill Kevis]

Somewhat coincidentaly there is talk now about the US ending the embargo. IIRC Cuba recently found a tonne of off-shore oil in Cuban controlled water, and the US wants in. Interesting times are ahead for Cuba... trade with the US and perhaps a new leader. I'm not even going to begin to speculate what will happen.


read that on a myspace group, can anyone confirm?

[Revolution67]

I think Comrade Castro should retire, as he is not on the right side of age. He should vacate his post and bring someone else who is dynamic, committed to protect the revolution at all costs. In other words, we should prepare ourselves for Castro's exit. With all that propaganda that capitalist media bombards our ears that people will rise against the current regime, I am a bit anxious as to what would happen on Castro's exit. Maybe comrades in Cuba and those comrades, who are in touch wit their comrades in Cuba, can let us know of the general prevailing feeling among the masses.

LONG LIVE COMRADE FIDEL CASTRO! LONG LIVE THE REVOLUTION!

[R_P_A_S]

any of you feel we might lose cuba?

[McLeft]

Okay so I've just watched the report on Fidel on the BBC here in London; I nearly died of laughter, htey said something like: " Cuba's communist leader has temporarily transferred the presidency to his brother Raul after undergoing a major operation, this is the first time he has relinquished power since he took power in 1959, which earned him the title of the world's longest living ruler, blah, blah, " they then showed pictures of those idiots celebrating the "death" of Fidel in Miami. The burgeous media :rolleyes:

When will the world understand what a Revolutionary Democracy is!!! :angry:

Long Live Fidel! Thank you for your messages, thank you for your life, thank you for your actions and most of all thank you for being my mentor.

Viva la Revolucion!

[Lardlad95]

!VIVA FIDEL!

I'm not going to explicitly state this, but watch the news...tell me if you notice anything about the so called Cubans in Little Havana...something that will signal a bad situation for Blacks in Cuba should these "Cuban Americans" return to Cuba.

I'm so sick of the US media's attitude towards Castro. They allow a group of Elite Cuban descendents dictate how they portray a man that has brought the best education and healthcare in Latin America to his people. Now I am very critical of Castro, but the smear campaign of the US media and the Cuban "exiles" is repugnant.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

any of you feel we might lose cuba?

Cuba will always exist. Fidel won't.

If Cuba would've been "socialist", status quo would remain. Socialism doesn't die along the leader of a nation. If Cuba would've been socialist, no need to worry. If Cuba is lead by a ruler, if Cuba is not ruled by the people, you will have to worry about the status quo. As such, I worry about the status quo...

An old ruler hospitalized. Maybe this is the beginning for something better in Cuba. Maybe it is the beginning of something even worse. Who knows. Quién sabe...

He's not a saint. He's been sly. He has given people so much freedom and relative comfort that people will not revolt, but never given the people so much power that they forget who is the boss. Most people in Cuba knows this.

[piet11111]

well i hope Castro is ok he deserves his retirement.

anyway if the imperialists try something the should prepare to bleed even if i have to go over to make them.

[Wanted Man]

Originally posted by Solitary [email protected] 1 2006, 09:49 AM
Myself and Comrade Alex (VIVA FIDEL on this forum) live in Miami and it's saddening to see all these GUSANOS parading the streets, hoping for his death. We went out tonight with our Che shirts (nothing of Fidel available to us) and got beeped at, called "cabrones" by a few people and plain cursed out by others. But it felt good to show all these hijo de putas in Miami that this city has REAL CUBANS to stand up for Castro...

VIVA FIDEL! Y VIVA LA REVOLUCION CUBANA!!!
Glad to hear that not all Cubans in Miami are like those fucking apes. Viva Fidel!

[Matty_UK]

I'm sure everyone here is thinking this if not posting it for obvious reason, but I think some talking about internationalist brigades is in order, just in case. :ph34r:

Except not on the net obv.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

, but I think some talking about internationalist brigades is in order, just in case.

Why would you support the Castro dictatorship?

If I know Cubans right, they would appreciate doing whatever needs to be done by themselves, and not by (as they see them) rich kids in the West who are used to play video games instead of lots of manual labor.

[Tekun]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2006, 12:58 PM

, but I think some talking about internationalist brigades is in order, just in case.

Why would you support the Castro dictatorship?

If I know Cubans right, they would appreciate doing whatever needs to be done by themselves, and not by (as they see them) rich kids in the West who are used to play video games instead of lots of manual labor.
International brigades would be employed only if American imperialism threatened the sovereignty and liberty of the Cuban ppl
They would protect the Cuban ppl's right to choose and form their own government, by fighting or resisting interference from the American imperialists
They would in no way protect or strengthen the position of Cuba's communist party, nor would they become involved in Cuba's political process
Their only purpose would be to protect Cuba from gusano or American aggression, considering the circumstances

Would u rather see Cuba overrun by American mercenaries a la Guatemala 1954?
I think your jumping to conclusions my friend

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Yeah well NWOG has pretty much revealed in his time here that he's more interested in the imperialists' and gusanos' slander of Cuba than he is in defending a socialist country from imperialist attacks.

I'm hearing things that don't sound so good.. Apparently, "Granma" hasn't come out today, all flights in and out of Cuba are canceled, all Hotels are closed, police and military patrols are going on, and the Politburo has taken control of things temporarily. I'm also hearing that Fidel is in a medically induced coma.

[TupacAndChe4Eva]

There is an AP report that he is in a coma.

It doesn't look too good.

I hope this infamous contingency plan is well thought out.

Raul Castro is much more of a hardline Marxist than Fidel. Perhaps he is the best person to hand over to, if there is to be disruption.

He is the head of the Armed Forces, and has been since the end of the Revolutionary War. I don't think anything will happen while he is around.

When Raul does take over, they need to find someone young and charismatic, because Raul is not exactly young, is he?

Without the two Castro brothers, I can see the Americans suddenly becoming involved in Cuba again.

[skooma]

coma? like sharon?

i agree with Tekun, about interferring with the interferring imperialists

[Tekun]

Apparently, its not good news....

However, the revolution lives on
Solidarity with the Cuban people!

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

There is an AP report that he is in a coma.

Where? I can't find it on the AP site.

[MrDoom]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2006, 01:35 PM
When Raul does take over, they need to find someone young and enigmatic, because Raul is not exactly young, is he?
Sure you don't mean 'young and charismatic?

:D

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Ricardo Alarcon or Felipe Roque are likely possibilities to be elected president in the next elections.

[Enragé]

people people

If Cuba is socialist, then the people rule, and it does not matter for the revolution if Fidel dies. So then there is nothing to worry about.

If cuba is a dictatorship as some claim, then all for the best that Fidel dies. So even then, there is nothing to worry about.

simple as that.

"Condenarme, no importa. La historia me absolvera"
I have always hoped that that would become true, that history would absolve him. But if it does not, so be it.

All power to the people

[TupacAndChe4Eva]

Originally posted by MrDoom+Aug 1 2006, 01:40 PM--> (MrDoom @ Aug 1 2006, 01:40 PM)
[email protected] 1 2006, 01:35 PM
When Raul does take over, they need to find someone young and enigmatic, because Raul is not exactly young, is he?
Sure you don't mean 'young and charismatic?

:D [/b]
:blink:

:D

[Martin Blank]

Here's the latest from my own sources:...

According to sources in the Island, the political climate in La Habana is one of "either a coup or a funeral." Hotels shut down because they are under government orders to reserve the rooms for them; meetings in all ministries with military officers presence; flights canceled and police and military patrols in certain areas of the capital not ussually showing this kind of presence...

Fidel is in a medically induced coma as of now...

The rumor mill is working overtime. However, according to "serious" people on the Island (everyone is trotting the line of their favorites) Fidel is dead and people are starting to line up either behind Raul or Lage. Alarcon is said to be very, very upset because he wasn't even mentioned for anything...

Perez Roque and Valenciaga are said to be playing a big role now as intermediates, really in favor of one of the candidates...

The State Council has been bypassed for the Politburo, an unexpected move that means Raul is firmly in power...

More details as it comes in.

Miles

[Karl Marx's Camel]

They would protect the Cuban ppl's right to choose and form their own government, by fighting or resisting interference from the American imperialists


That would be good.

Too bad many "revolutionary leftists" want to execute those they do not agree with.

Again, I do not think this should happen unless it is approved by a large portion of the common people in Cuba. They are usually pretty staunch about non-Cubans not messing in Cuban politics.

I would guess that international brigades would be okay if the exiles/U.S. army/etc invades or a civil war occur.


Would u rather see Cuba overrun by American mercenaries a la Guatemala 1954?


If I recall correctly, Jacobo Arbenz was afraid to crush the guerillas, as he thought it would possibly provoke a U.S. invasion. The officers were eventually duped by the U.S. propaganda and turned against the government, something that would not probably happen in Cuba, as the military is highly conservative and pro-status quo.


Yeah well NWOG has pretty much revealed in his time here that he's more interested in the imperialists' and gusanos' slander of Cuba than he is in defending a socialist country from imperialist attacks.

It would be sweet if Cuba was run by the Cuban people.

Unfortunately I cannot see how that is the case.

I don't read Miami Times or whatever newspapers are called in Florida. I am in contact on an everyday basis with Cubans and my cuban friends. I base most of my views on Cuba by talking to them, and also reading Granma for updates regarding the economy and other things.

You know you get quite a different view when you actually talk to people who live in Cuba, than reading pro-Castro websites.




Fidel is in a medically induced coma as of now...

The rumor mill is working overtime. However, according to "serious" people on the Island (everyone is trotting the line of their favorites) Fidel is dead and people are starting to line up either behind Raul or Lage. Alarcon is said to be very, very upset because he wasn't even mentioned for anything...

He wrote a letter where he delegated tasks to Raul and other politicians. That was yesterday.

So are you saying he has in the recent hours been put in a medically induced coma? I thought he had been operated on already..?




According to sources in the Island, the political climate in La Habana is one of "either a coup or a funeral."

According to the information I have been getting people seem grave and worried. Even people who hate Castro seem to be worried.



Ricardo Alarcon or Felipe Roque are likely possibilities to be elected president in the next elections.


Do you mean by national elections or...?

Isn't the President and the Council of State elected by the National Assembly? I believe I remember reading that from this site:
http://www.leninism.org/stream/99/mll/0512-danchr.asp




Where? I can't find it on the AP site.

Me neither.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

Apparently in Santa Clara extra police forces have been deployed and several cars in the streets are using that whistle (don't know the english name).

[Tekun]

If I recall correctly, Jacobo Arbenz was afraid to crush the guerillas, as he thought it would possibly provoke a U.S. invasion. The officers were eventually duped by the U.S. propaganda and turned against the government, something that would not probably happen in Cuba, as the military is highly conservative and pro-status quo.

Actually, Arbenz Guzman was confident that the army would take care of the rebel forces that were operating in El Salvador and were being directed and financed by the US
He realized that the US would use dissidents and rebels to overthrow him
Many Guatemalan's including the man in your avatar pleaded with Arbenz Guzman to arm the ppl, that way the Guatemalan ppl could defend the country
Yet he was confident that the army was substantially strong and faithful, and would easily defeat the rebels, so he refused
As a result, he was ousted after half of the army turned on him, and the ppl were unable to resist the rebel force (there were many skirmishes throughout Guatemala, but since the rebels were financed and armed by the US, the ppl were no match for the heavily armed rebels)
Maybe my country would be a lil better if Arbenz Guzman would have armed the ppl, and created an extra force to resist the coup
Who knows...

What is certain is that the Cuban gov cannot make the same mistake that Guatemala made
The revolution must be saved by the ppl, and if there are international brigades ready to help and defend Cuba's sovereignty, the more the better

[RevMARKSman]

Taps? The funeral song? Or don't you mean the name of a tune?

[Tekun]

Keep us informed on any developments, comrades

[Briseño]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Nq2LWliTXQM&search=fidel%20castro

[MiniOswald]

http://www.granma.cu/ingles/2006/agosto/mar1/32proclama.html

Granma's announcement of the news there

[Karl Marx's Camel]

and if there are international brigades ready to help and defend Cuba's sovereignty, the more the better

Again, it is not certain the Cubans themselves think so. They generally want other people to fuck off and stop meddling in Cuban affairs.

[Wanted Man]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2006, 04:08 PM
Again, it is not certain the Cubans themselves think so. They generally want other people to fuck off and stop meddling in Cuban affairs.
Not what I've heard from comrades who've visited Cuba as part of the José Marti Brigade.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

Not what I've heard from comrades who've visited Cuba as part of the José Marti Brigade.


Then you should talk to Cubans and ask them if they want non-Cubans to meddle in Cuban affairs. They don't want other people telling them what to do, what to think. No matter who the non-Cubans are. Cubans want to lead their own country. Not to be lead.

[which doctor]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Cuban_transfer_of_power

It would be nice if some of you who know a lot could fill in the wiki article on it.

[piet11111]

if the cubans want to rule themselves then they will need the international brigades if the united states start to fuck up cuba.

the only concern of the international brigades is to safeguard the cuban independance of foreign influence.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

the only concern of the international brigades is to safeguard the cuban independance of foreign influence.


How do we know that?

There are people on this forum who want Cubans who do not agree with people's view here, shot.

Why the international brigades? If Cuba is socialist, no need to worry right? There are over 11 million people in Cuba.


if the cubans want to rule themselves then they will need the international brigades if the united states start to fuck up cuba.

Why?

Why do Cubans need foreigners?

[Ander]

Is Fidel in a fucking coma or not?

[Physco Bitch]

I am very disgusted by the way people have been celebrating like he has died, even if Fidel had died it is still sickening to think that people would celebrate in such a way. Even if you don't like and belive in someone there is no need to act in such away, fine i can understand if you hate someone- but you still shouldn't act in such a heartless why- celebrate in private if you must. But i am glad to hear that Castro should be well and fine- i also hope that Cuba does not full back into communism. Lets hope if Raul is now in permantly that he keeps Cuba in their hands. :D

[Janus]

I think Bush has been practicing some voodoo. He's in Miami and Fidel becomes sick.

Anyways, rather than worrying about the health of one man we should be more worried about where Cuba may be going in the event that he does not take back his power. Will another official take his place or will there be some US plot?

[RevMARKSman]

Originally posted by Physco *****@Aug 1 2006, 12:06 PM
I am very disgusted by the way people have been celebrating like he has died, even if Fidel had died it is still sickening to think that people would celebrate in such a way. Even if you don't like and belive in someone there is no need to act in such away, fine i can understand if you hate someone- but you still shouldn't act in such a heartless why- celebrate in private if you must. But i am glad to hear that Castro should be well and fine- i also hope that Cuba does not full back into communism. Lets hope if Raul is now in permantly that he keeps Cuba in their hands. :D
So much for that "Thatcher death party" idea we've had for months...

Either way, we *SHOULDN'T* have much to worry about from the transfer of power. It's when Raul dies that maybe things will start happening.

[Janus]

Looks like the Cuban exiles jumped the gun.

Fidel seems to be recovering very well from the operation.

Castro's allies say he's recovering (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060801/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/cuba_castro;_ylt=Auy.MPCbbXgPwktH9LGTDGOs0NUE;_ylu =X3oDMTA3OTB1amhuBHNlYwNtdHM-)

[YKTMX]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2006, 04:08 AM
The US media is like a 14 year old girl.
The people on here aren't much better, more like the mirror images.

An unelected bureaucrat hands over power to his brother without even pretending to pay any attention to the people he rules and the best the people on here can do is "wish him well".



Hopefully Fidel's got the same doctor as his friend Uncle Joe.

[*PRC*Kensei]

Originally posted by MonicaTTmed+Aug 1 2006, 05:20 PM--> (MonicaTTmed @ Aug 1 2006, 05:20 PM)
Physco *****@Aug 1 2006, 12:06 PM
I am very disgusted by the way people have been celebrating like he has died, even if Fidel had died it is still sickening to think that people would celebrate in such a way. Even if you don't like and belive in someone there is no need to act in such away, fine i can understand if you hate someone- but you still shouldn't act in such a heartless why- celebrate in private if you must. But i am glad to hear that Castro should be well and fine- i also hope that Cuba does not full back into communism. Lets hope if Raul is now in permantly that he keeps Cuba in their hands. :D
So much for that "Thatcher death party" idea we've had for months...

Either way, we *SHOULDN'T* have much to worry about from the transfer of power. It's when Raul dies that maybe things will start happening. [/b]
cuba has a democratic parliament *dodges tomatoes for that statement* they people have a party & members who they can vote on evry 5 years. i say if fidel is gonna give in power for good, there will just be election & another socialist will be in charge & IN YOUR FACE USA. :)

[Wanted Man]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2006, 04:36 PM
Why?

Why do Cubans need foreigners?
The same reason we need them.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/internationalism

[Solitary Mind]

So many of these Gusanos here in Miami swear that they are going back to Cuba and they will be recieved warmly...but the Gusanos in Miami don't know that the REAL Cubans in Cuba won't recieve them warmly at all. They are traitors to the revolution and they all left behind their families for their own personal reasons. Not to mention the United States will not allow MORE than half of Miamis population to migrate back to Cuba and let Miami fall economically. The United States will NOT do what they please with Cuba, i will make sure that the imperialists bleed if they even try. Here in miami i wish i could find other like-minded people to show that theres people in Miami that support castro and that these gusanos are hypocrits and animals for hoping and celebrating death (not that hes dead yet) ....its digusting to live in miami surrounded by all of this....

VIVA LA REVOLUCION!

[piet11111]

Originally posted by Matthijs+Aug 1 2006, 05:55 PM--> (Matthijs @ Aug 1 2006, 05:55 PM)
[email protected] 1 2006, 04:36 PM
Why?

Why do Cubans need foreigners?
The same reason we need them.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/internationalism [/b]
well that pretty much covers all i wanted to say to NWOG.

if it gets to the point that cuba needs to defend itself every hand helps.
i know you think very little of us communists but if we can do anything to help the cubans preserve their independance then we must do that.

others can stay home and play with the stockmarket if they prefer.

[SFRJ]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2006, 01:54 PM
people people

If Cuba is socialist, then the people rule, and it does not matter for the revolution if Fidel dies. So then there is nothing to worry about.

If cuba is a dictatorship as some claim, then all for the best that Fidel dies. So even then, there is nothing to worry about.

simple as that.

"Condenarme, no importa. La historia me absolvera"
I have always hoped that that would become true, that history would absolve him. But if it does not, so be it.

All power to the people
Well spoken!

I think it is time för Fidel to stand back and give power to the Cuban youth (not Raul70) anyway.

Cuban society is in desperate need of reforms, and only younger Cuban socialists can transform that hardcore stalinist into 2006 socialist system.


Fidel has done many good things but it is time leave.

Fidel basta.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

The same reason we need them.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/internationalism

You may ask the regime. Maybe they will say "yes internationalism bla bla bla".

If you talk to people on the streets they will probably say something like "This is our country. We want to control our own future. We don't need you. Yes, we need your money for tourism. Yes, yes, yes. But we don't want you to meddle in our affairs. This is Cuba. Cuba is for Cubans.".

Why don't you go to Cuba and ask people if they want "internationalist brigades" in Cuba, or not? Do you not think that the Cuban opinion matters? By Cuban I mean the Cuban people, not the regime.



They are traitors to the revolution and they all left behind their families for their own personal reasons.

so if you left for Cuba in the 60's because you were being put in labor camp, are you a traitor of the revolution then?

If you thought you could help your family by moving to another country and send money to your family, are you a traitor of the revolution then?

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

You're certainly no communist. At best you're a fucking centrist. Please don't claim to speak for "the common man in Cuba" from your computer in Europe.

I've lived and worked in Cuba, I talk to Cubans every day, I've studied the revolution inside and out for years.

I don't get my info from "pro-Fidel websites", I get it from objective fact, from Cuban workers and farmers. You're as bad as any anti-communist; if it shows a socialist nation or leader in a possitive light, it must be wrong. Bullshit.


The people on here aren't much better, more like the mirror images.

An unelected bureaucrat hands over power to his brother without even pretending to pay any attention to the people he rules and the best the people on here can do is "wish him well".

Hopefully Fidel's got the same doctor as his friend Uncle Joe.

You show you're true colors though.. backing reactionary Islamacists while rejecting (and calling for the death of!!) popularly elected leaders of a socialist country, where the people determine their own destiny.

Fidel is the president of Cuba, Raul is the vice-President. When something happens to the president, the vice-President takes over, if necessary, until the next elections.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

"There is no one else like him," said Osmar Fernandez, 27, drinking rum at a cafe. "I want Fidel to live for 80 more years." - Bourgeois press source (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060801/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/cuba_castro;_ylt=Auy.MPCbbXgPwktH9LGTDGOs0NUE;_ylu =X3oDMTA3OTB1amhuBHNlYwNtdHM-)

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

How do we know that?

See: Cuba's unmatched internationalism over the last 50 years; Cuban internationalist troops in Angola, Ethiopia, Yemen, etc.

Do you think that only goes one way? The oppressed and exploited of the world owe a great debt to the tremendous sacrifices of the Cuban people.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

so if you left for Cuba in the 60's because you were being put in labor camp, are you a traitor of the revolution then?

What the fuck are you talking about now kid? The people that left, the base of the gusano mobsters in Miami, are white petty-bourgeoisie, bourgeoisie, lumpen criminals and compradors.

Those that left post 1980 did so mostly for economic reasons, and tend not to oppose the revolution.. the Cuban people have made clear that these people are not traitors or gusanos..

But those that left because they can't exploit, because they can't get rich on the work of others, these people are the ultimate scum of the fucking earth.. no matter when they left. These are the gusanos.

[Andy Bowden]

I think Felipe Perez Rocque will be the next President - he's young and from speeches he has given he certainly seems to be very eloquent and capable.

It's possible that FIdel is not on his deathbed, but is making a smart political move - letting power move on to a (hopefully) younger candidate at a time when the US is weak - Chavez and Morales have been elected, bogged down in Iraq etc.

This gives them less leeway for an intervention.

So if Fidel doesn't die, he should still hand power over IMO, to get one over the gusanos.

[Wanted Man]

Originally posted by Lennie [email protected] 1 2006, 06:41 PM
I get it from objective fact, from Cuban workers and farmers. You're as bad as any anti-communist; if it shows a socialist nation or leader in a possitive light, it must be wrong. Bullshit.
http://dunamai.com/Humor/BagdadBob/images/bagdad_bob_large.gif

There are no Castro-supporters in Cuba! They are on the moon! Do not believe the lies!

[Solitary Mind]

We just got word from Cuba via my grandfather who works for Cuba's intelligence. Fidel Castro is alive and had surgery performed on him 3 days ago.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

What the fuck are you talking about now kid? The people that left, the base of the gusano mobsters in Miami, are white petty-bourgeoisie, bourgeoisie, lumpen criminals and compradors.

Don't call me kid.

True, a lot of those who traveled from Cuba in the 60's were of these. However quite a few of those who have emigrated from Cuba since then are not part of that group. People have traveled from Cuba due to a lot of reasons. Not just one.

A lot of them due to economic and family reasons.

You do not think one single homosexual emigrated from Cuba due to the machismo, due to being placed in the Military Units to Aid Production?



Those that left post 1980 did so mostly for economic reasons, and tend not to oppose the revolution.. the Cuban people have made clear that these people are not traitors or gusanos..

But those that left because they can't exploit, because they can't get rich on the work of others, these people are the ultimate scum of the fucking earth.. no matter when they left. These are the gusanos.


Yes. I agree.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Just got word from Cuba. Ricardo Alarcon just came on Cubavision and said Fidel is doing great, and that "his final days are along time off".

[Karl Marx's Camel]

Do you think that only goes one way? The oppressed and exploited of the world owe a great debt to the tremendous sacrifices of the Cuban people.

If you had been a month, maybe even less in Cuba, and not been in Varadero or in fancy hotels, and talked to Cubans, you would know that the people can be dissapointed with the regime giving away so much resources to other people. A lot of people think the regime is doing too much for non-Cubans. A lot of Cubans are saying that they wish the treatment that others get by Cuban doctors.
There sure are sacrifices alright. Tremendous onces. But a lot of those decisions of sacrifice is taken by the regime, not the Cuban people.

If you had actually lived among cuban people you should know by now what happens if you don't go to a demo, for instance.

http://dunamai.com/Humor/BagdadBob/images/bagdad_bob_large.gif

Everyone in Cuba support Comrade Fidel! In Cuba there is total freedom, socialism and democracy! Do not believe the lies! The lies!

[Tekun]

I've heard and read on several news outlets that the surgery was successful and he is recovering nicely, in addition, Venezuela's gov just announced that Cuban officials close to Fidel have corroborated this
There is still too much confusion and uncertainty, so as of now he's out of surgery and recovering? Hmm...

[*PRC*Kensei]

Originally posted by Matthijs+Aug 1 2006, 07:43 PM--> (Matthijs @ Aug 1 2006, 07:43 PM)
Lennie [email protected] 1 2006, 06:41 PM
I get it from objective fact, from Cuban workers and farmers. You're as bad as any anti-communist; if it shows a socialist nation or leader in a possitive light, it must be wrong. Bullshit.
http://dunamai.com/Humor/BagdadBob/images/bagdad_bob_large.gif

There are no Castro-supporters in Cuba! They are on the moon! Do not believe the lies! [/b]
MAHAHAHAHAHAHHA !!!!

ROLF !!! :D :D :D

best one ever ! the iraque minister of information.

hehehe... good one...

[*PRC*Kensei]

Originally posted by Lennie [email protected] 1 2006, 06:50 PM

so if you left for Cuba in the 60's because you were being put in labor camp, are you a traitor of the revolution then?

What the fuck are you talking about now kid? The people that left, the base of the gusano mobsters in Miami, are white petty-bourgeoisie, bourgeoisie, lumpen criminals and compradors.

Those that left post 1980 did so mostly for economic reasons, and tend not to oppose the revolution.. the Cuban people have made clear that these people are not traitors or gusanos..

But those that left because they can't exploit, because they can't get rich on the work of others, these people are the ultimate scum of the fucking earth.. no matter when they left. These are the gusanos.
people got offered mony to leave their porparty's to the state... they where not robbed of their proparty & certainly not put in labour camps.

[KC]

I believe they still took it regardless of the person took the money or not. Am I correct?

[*PRC*Kensei]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2006, 08:27 PM


Do you think that only goes one way? The oppressed and exploited of the world owe a great debt to the tremendous sacrifices of the Cuban people.

If you had been a month, maybe even less in Cuba, and not been in Varadero or in fancy hotels, and talked to Cubans, you would know that the people can be dissapointed with the regime giving away so much resources to other people. A lot of people think the regime is doing too much for non-Cubans. A lot of Cubans are saying that they wish the treatment that others get by Cuban doctors.
There sure are sacrifices alright. Tremendous onces. But a lot of those decisions of sacrifice is taken by the regime, not the Cuban people.

If you had actually lived among cuban people you should know by now what happens if you don't go to a demo, for instance.

http://dunamai.com/Humor/BagdadBob/images/bagdad_bob_large.gif

Everyone in Cuba support Comrade Fidel! In Cuba there is total freedom, socialism and democracy! Do not believe the lies! The lies!
i've been there.

People BELIEVE AND SUPPORT the revolution, (almost all of them)

they just complain about politics like we complain about our local politics..

and offcourse some like to see LITTLE changes. but they certainly do not want to change the systhem.

cuba giving away mony to others ? who ? only 2 other socialist country's left to support... u mean their internationalism ? u mean their support to the thirth world ? they should be hounoured for that effort.

their is absolutely NO problem WHATever with the cuban health care. tourists may get some more pills, but they have to PAY for it (my dad had to go to dokter for his swollen ear, he had to pay like 50 COC; thats free for a cuban.

85 % or more support fidel.
there is more freedom then in other 3th world country's, cause people get paid for... not to much work (cubans work less hard then europeans...a LOT less) they can do what they want. how many freedom has a negerian have with his one goat & a stick to push it ?
Whats closer to socialism then cuba ?
cuba is a one-party democracy, people can join the party, & can vote each 5 years for the parliament. it's a limited democrazy.

& mathijs: i love they way u used that pic... brilliant.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

and offcourse some like to see LITTLE changes. but they certainly do not want to change the systhem.


Based on the perception I have gathered, most people want to see LITTLE changes. Rather improvements on the existing system. Like, less power to the employer, less bureaucracy, perhaps a little more but slowly more political freedom and room to debate, more purchasing power, more equality, not spending too much on other countries but focusing on Cuba, real free healthcare and so on. Generally making life easier.



cuba giving away mony to others ? who ? only 2 other socialist country's left to support... u mean their internationalism ? u mean their support to the thirth world ? they should be hounoured for that effort.


Which socialist coutnries are you thinking about?

There are many examples. What comes up in my head right now is the 30,000 television sets that the regime sent to Bolivia. A lot of cubans have crap TV, black and white TV, TV's barely functioning or not functioning at all.

And all the doctors that have gone. The doctors-export has made life harder for people, because less doctors are available.


their is absolutely NO problem WHATever with the cuban health care.

There are many problems with the healthcare. Or at least it was back in 1999. From what I heard there still is. Like, either lack of medicine or lack of money to purchase medicine. Lack of doctors. The family of the patient having to bring lightbulps, pillows, extra food (there is food but its crap), etc. And Cubans quite often have to bribe a doctor to get the proper treatment faster. It amounts to 5-10 dollars, which is a lot in Cuba.


(my dad had to go to dokter for his swollen ear, he had to pay like 50 COC; thats free for a cuban.


It's not free if you have to buy the medicine or if you have to bribe the doctor.



85 % or more support fidel.

I could agree with that. However many people support Fidel out of fear of what might happen, because he has brought stability, because they are afraid of the U.S., a few because they really like him. By a lot of people he is seen as a lesser evil, or as the best alternative there is.

Almost everyone respect him.


not to much work (cubans work less hard then europeans...a LOT less)

Where do you get this from...?

[Wanted Man]

I found it especially funny how NWOG suggested that the average Cuban is just some nationalist prick. As stated, a comrade recently went on the José Marti Brigade to do voluntary work in Cuba. Later, I will translate her report whole, for now, some excerpts:


In the afternoon, international Cuban doctors came to the camp. Before that, we saw the documentary "Mountain of Light", about the aid that the Cuban doctors brought after the earthquake in Pakistan. We were allowed to ask questions to the doctors. It was very interesting. The Cuban doctors were the only ones who have gone into the mountains in Pakistan, in the icy cold, to help the people in the villages. The doctors from other countries felt that this kind of work was too dangerous. It wasn't easy for the Cuban doctors, it was winter in the Pakistani mountains, they didn't speak the language and had limited resources. Still, they pushed through, and have received a lot of gratefulness for this from the Pakistani people. One thing became very clear, the keyword for Cuban doctors is solidarity...

On a couple of dissidents:


We went to the market, and then went for a drink with a Cuban couple in a small bar. We've talked to them for a long time, about politics. These two people were opponents of the revolution. For example, they voiced their displeasure about not being able to demonstrate. They also claimed that they would lose their jobs if they didn't attend Fidel's May Day speech(later, others told us that this wasn't true). I asked them lots of questions, for example, if they weren't afraid of capitalism only making the situation worse. They answered that this chance existed, but that they had some hope of things getting better. I could barely understand why they were willing to take this risk, a very big risk from my point of view. It took a while for me and Raquel to let this conversation sink in. The day after, we had dinner at the home of the same Cubans, as a thanks for the drinks we bought them the day before. Soon, it turned out that these people weren't trustworthy, and were mostly in it for our money. I guess such people exist everywhere...

About a woman they met when visiting a village:


She is a nurse, for children and pregnant women. There was a big picture of Fidel hanging there [in her house], "mi padre", is what she said about him...

Anyway, it's rather lame to pretend to hold the ultimate authority on Cuba because you talk to Cubans, while dismissing the Cuban acquaintances of other members here as unimportant because that person was supposedly only at the beach of Varadero(prove it!).

[Karl Marx's Camel]

I found it especially funny how NWOG suggested that the average Cuban is just some nationalist prick.

Cubans are quite nationalistic. Yes, cubans can even be slightly arrogant (I find it hilarious though). Didn't you know this?

Oh yes, the brigades... :rolleyes:

Anywho, from one of my favorite books regarding Cuba, by Øyvind Johnsen (Cuba: Folket under glassklokken):



They were brigadists, norwegian people who participated in rural work to help Cuba. Now they shared their experiences. - It is fantastic how enviromental conscious the cubans are. We took the train to Santiago and there where A LOT of people all the way. It went slowly, but still it was overcrowded. Cubans prefer train instead of cars. Imagine if we could get this kind of attitude with us back home to Norway!

Their faces were lightening up; some seemed impressed over the enviromental-friendliness of the cuban people. Then they talked about the food they got after the day's work on the orange fields:
- It is incredible how they do it, guys. We actually got meat every day. And imagine, under the special period! I couldn't resist after trying to keep myself calm under their idealist contemplations of why the Cubans do not drive cars. - what about the cubans in the area, then? Did they eat meat every day?

A woman turned around and looked at me very seriously: - They have little more healthier lifestyle down here than at home, you see. They don't eat as meat; they base their food consumption on fruit, vegetables and beans and rice and stuff. That we should do, too.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

If you had been a month, maybe even less in Cuba, and not been in Varadero or in fancy hotels, and talked to Cubans, you would know that the people can be dissapointed with the regime giving away so much resources to other people.

A lot of people think the regime is doing too much for non-Cubans. A lot of Cubans are saying that they wish the treatment that others get by Cuban doctors.

There sure are sacrifices alright. Tremendous onces. But a lot of those decisions of sacrifice is taken by the regime, not the Cuban people.

I lived in Bayamo for 6 months and worked 5 days a week for 5 of them. Don't assume to know anything about me. The other time I went I stayed in a friend's (whom I met while there previously) apartment.

Cubans are proud to be internationalists. Being a communist means being an internationalist. I've got news for you.. gusanos in Miami, molestarios in the tourist areas, Cuban women on latinamericancupid.com and the "women in white" are not "regular Cubans" nor to they share the outlook of the average Cuban worker.


If you had actually lived among cuban people you should know by now what happens if you don't go to a demo, for instance.

The CDRs encourage people to particpate in all public meetings, rallies, elections, etc. If you don't come out, and you don't have a good reason, alot of people will probably be disappointed in you. What's wrong with that? That's called partipatory democracy.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

The CDRs encourage people to particpate in all public meetings, rallies, elections, etc. If you don't come out, and you don't have a good reason, alot of people will probably be disappointed in you. What's wrong with that?

Dissapointed is fine. However....

I wrote this some time ago.


When you go to a demonstration you'll be checked by at least three persons/organizations: CDR members (Committee for the Defence of the Revolution, if fact your neighbours), party members (it doesn't matter whether you are a member of the party or not) and by workers union's members.

If you don't go then next working day your boss at the company will ask you why you didn't go, later on the party's secretary will do the same.

Consequence 1: If you are a party's member you'll get a sanction (the first time you get a public reprimand, then you may loose the right to vote for a couple of months). Probably they won't throw you out of the party because it's already bad enough (nobody wants to belong to the party so they need to keep their members).

Consequence 2 (the worst one): In Cuba if you want to take your kid to a kindergarten you have to fill in an application form, your personal details are just pure formalities, what really counts are the signatures of your company's boss, the union's boss and the CDR's boss, and it's then when they will recall that you didn't go to the last demo.

Consequence 3 (also a bad one): some things (TVs, ventilators, refrigerators, etc) are given away at the companies by the workers unions, they are for the best workers. Who the best workers are is decided at a open meeting, and then you will see that even your best friend will raise his hand and say Pepe doesn't deserve to get a TV because he didn't go the last demo.

[which doctor]

Originally posted by Lennie [email protected] 1 2006, 01:42 PM
"There is no one else like him," said Osmar Fernandez, 27, drinking rum at a cafe. "I want Fidel to live for 80 more years." - Bourgeois press source (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060801/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/cuba_castro;_ylt=Auy.MPCbbXgPwktH9LGTDGOs0NUE;_ylu =X3oDMTA3OTB1amhuBHNlYwNtdHM-)
That quote means nothing. I know people in America who would say that about Bush too.

[Ander]

I think that a smart move for Fidel (and possibly the survival of the CCP) would be to hold free, multi-party elections in the near future. If the CCP still won, then it would show that the Cuban people want socialism in their country and the US wouldn't have one of their cases for war.

[YKTMX]

Originally posted by Lennie [email protected] 1 2006, 06:41 PM

The people on here aren't much better, more like the mirror images.

An unelected bureaucrat hands over power to his brother without even pretending to pay any attention to the people he rules and the best the people on here can do is "wish him well".

Hopefully Fidel's got the same doctor as his friend Uncle Joe.

You show you're true colors though.. backing reactionary Islamacists while rejecting (and calling for the death of!!) popularly elected leaders of a socialist country, where the people determine their own destiny.

Fidel is the president of Cuba, Raul is the vice-President. When something happens to the president, the vice-President takes over, if necessary, until the next elections.
In the land of Oz...

Dr. Fidel is on his way and good riddance.

No doubt the bureaucracy will capitulate.

Who wants to make a wager with me that in 12 months time, Cuba will be a bourgeois republic with a market economy, close relations with the US and basically no change in personnel in its political leadership?

[More Fire for the People]

Who wants to make a wager with me that in 12 months time, Cuba will be a bourgeois republic with a market economy, close relations with the US and basically no change in personnel in its political leadership?
No one but Jihadist pseudo-Marxist.

[YKTMX]

Originally posted by Hopscotch [email protected] 1 2006, 11:31 PM

Who wants to make a wager with me that in 12 months time, Cuba will be a bourgeois republic with a market economy, close relations with the US and basically no change in personnel in its political leadership?
No one but Jihadist pseudo-Marxist.
I'm surprised you still link to my famous blog if that's how you feel.

[More Fire for the People]

Originally posted by YKTMX+Aug 1 2006, 05:34 PM--> (YKTMX @ Aug 1 2006, 05:34 PM)
Hopscotch [email protected] 1 2006, 11:31 PM

Who wants to make a wager with me that in 12 months time, Cuba will be a bourgeois republic with a market economy, close relations with the US and basically no change in personnel in its political leadership?
No one but Jihadist pseudo-Marxist.
I'm surprised you still link to my famous blog if that's how you feel. [/b]
You occassionally say something brilliant when you don't masturbate to SWP-line. Ex. football.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

I believe they still took it regardless of the person took the money or not. Am I correct?

Yeah.. that's how expropriations and nationalizations work.


In the land of Oz...

Dr. Fidel is on his way and good riddance.

No doubt the bureaucracy will capitulate.

Who wants to make a wager with me that in 12 months time, Cuba will be a bourgeois republic with a market economy, close relations with the US and basically no change in personnel in its political leadership?

That's something to hope for isn't it, you prick.

Who wants to make a wager that if the Islamacists some how take control of Iraq or Lebanon they'll round up all the communists and kill them? Don't worry though, I'm sure they'll be open to you going the route of the SEP (selling the names and pictures of communists to the reactionary government). That seems to be right up your alley.

***

NWOG, what are you complaining about?

That bonus goods are given to the (by your own admission) democratically chosen best workers? Who should they be given to? The independent librarians? :lol:

And yeah, people are criticized if they don't participate in meetings, elections, etc (although most turn out on their own accord). So what? What should the Cuban people do? Let people lay around and be apathetic without saying anything? No, of course not. There's nothing wrong with community encouragement and "moral motivation".. If you don't participate in a society where every works for the common good, you should expect to be criticized.

This is what always happens with people who attempt to criticize Cuba "from the left".. at the same time that they cry about a "lack of democracy" they whine about people being "forced to participate in decision making". It's lame.

[YKTMX]

That's something to hope for isn't it, you prick.

I don't know - I'm ambivalent. The survival of the geriatric dictatorship means nothing to me. It's obviously something that keeps you up nights.

What I always wonder is - why didn't Castro procreate a son, an heir? When Comrade Raul dies, so will the Castro bloodline, and then socialism will be gone forever :lol:


Don't worry though, I'm sure they'll be open to you going the route of the SEP (selling the names and pictures of communists to the reactionary government). That seems to be right up your alley.

Disneyland: Havana - opened 2007

:lol:

[chebol]

A few notes "from the land of Oz"...

Interesting the way the chips fall, isn't it?

In the context of increased US aggression and funding for counter-revolutionary movements in Cuba, and across the americas, when the repeatedly, democratically elected Fidel Castro falls ill and hands power to his similarly elected brother, as is the rule of law in the cuban system, a system repeatedly endorsed and built by the cuban people, by the workers, the peasants, the women's associations, the students, the artists and more, over decades - decades longer than most people on this board have lived, let alone been "socialists"; a democratic system dedicated not just to formalistic bourgeois democracy where you can take a bet on which over-funded group of lackies of the international financial elite to have govern you to enable your exploitation, but where the people are elected (not just the party, a party, any party) to govern, to build a system of justice, cooperation - socialism - when this happens, what do we see?

NWOG

Why would you support the Castro dictatorship?
Because the "castro dictatorship" is in fact the dictatorship of the cuban proletariat.

YKTMX:

An unelected bureaucrat hands over power to his brother without even pretending to pay any attention to the people he rules and the best the people on here can do is "wish him well".
Hopefully Fidel's got the same doctor as his friend Uncle Joe.
Most charming my gusano friend. Good to see your stripes again.

YKTMX:

What I always wonder is - why didn't Castro procreate a son, an heir? When Comrade Raul dies, so will the Castro bloodline, and then socialism will be gone forever
He's got plenty of children, idiot.


Who wants to make a wager with me that in 12 months time, Cuba will be a bourgeois republic with a market economy, close relations with the US and basically no change in personnel in its political leadership?
What's the point? You're stupid enough to think most of this is true already....


I don't know - I'm ambivalent. The survival of the geriatric dictatorship means nothing to me. It's obviously something that keeps you up nights.
Neither socialism nor capitalism, eh comrade? Just middle of the road liberal moralising bullshit couched in clever-sounding phraseology to cover the fact that when the revolution comes you'll be running for the cover of the reactionary state..

Why does YKTMX write this snotty drivel? Is the problem really that cuba is not led by Cliffites? Hoping for bourgeois restoration so you can set up a chapter of the Pomintern? Not enough bourgeois bribes to settle you in your nice middle class lifestyle socialism? Fuck off. Jode.

I'm willing to forgive NWOG on the basis of his naiivete (although it's been going on so long with so little change I'm beginning to believe it is deliberate, and he is reading material that suits an all too common position of criticising Cuba whilst failing to understand socialism -
It would be sweet if Cuba was run by the Cuban people. Unfortunately I cannot see how that is the case.), but YKTMX I have no sympathy for. When the chips are down, comrade, which side of the barricade are you on? I think we've seen our answer.

Brigades - on this, NWOG is actually mostly correct. Not that the Cubans wouldn't appreciate the help (they would), but more on the basis that they won't need it. The last major military operation of the cuban people had 4 million people under arms. And there are more weapons available in every neighbourhood. Furthermore, Venezuela's recent arms purchases and their alliance with Cuba would make any military intervention by the US a disaster to make Iraq and Vietnam look like a daytime cookign show in comparison.
"Losing cuba"??? Fear not, comrades...

btw, Solitary Mind, if this below is true, you shouldn't be saying it, and if it's false, you shouldn't be saying it. Claro, chico? Palabras peligrosos...

We just got word from Cuba via my grandfather who works for Cuba's intelligence. Fidel Castro is alive and had surgery performed on him 3 days ago.

Rumours of Fidel's, and socialism's, demise are greatly exaggerated. Those of us who have been, and lived there, know how the country works, and know the bullshit of the bourgeois press, and the 'revolutionary' critics of Cuba.

La revolucion mundial avanza! Viva Cuba! Viva Fidel! Abajo con sectarianismo!
Hasta la victoria siempre!
Patria o muerte!
Venceremos!

[*PRC*Kensei]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2006, 09:10 PM


and offcourse some like to see LITTLE changes. but they certainly do not want to change the systhem.


Based on the perception I have gathered, most people want to see LITTLE changes. Rather improvements on the existing system. Like, less power to the employer, less bureaucracy, perhaps a little more but slowly more political freedom and room to debate, more purchasing power, more equality, not spending too much on other countries but focusing on Cuba, real free healthcare and so on. Generally making life easier.



cuba giving away mony to others ? who ? only 2 other socialist country's left to support... u mean their internationalism ? u mean their support to the thirth world ? they should be hounoured for that effort.


Which socialist coutnries are you thinking about?

There are many examples. What comes up in my head right now is the 30,000 television sets that the regime sent to Bolivia. A lot of cubans have crap TV, black and white TV, TV's barely functioning or not functioning at all.

And all the doctors that have gone. The doctors-export has made life harder for people, because less doctors are available.


their is absolutely NO problem WHATever with the cuban health care.

There are many problems with the healthcare. Or at least it was back in 1999. From what I heard there still is. Like, either lack of medicine or lack of money to purchase medicine. Lack of doctors. The family of the patient having to bring lightbulps, pillows, extra food (there is food but its crap), etc. And Cubans quite often have to bribe a doctor to get the proper treatment faster. It amounts to 5-10 dollars, which is a lot in Cuba.


(my dad had to go to dokter for his swollen ear, he had to pay like 50 COC; thats free for a cuban.


It's not free if you have to buy the medicine or if you have to bribe the doctor.



85 % or more support fidel.

I could agree with that. However many people support Fidel out of fear of what might happen, because he has brought stability, because they are afraid of the U.S., a few because they really like him. By a lot of people he is seen as a lesser evil, or as the best alternative there is.

Almost everyone respect him.


not to much work (cubans work less hard then europeans...a LOT less)

Where do you get this from...?
i agree on most u said, just the last thing that cubans dont work a lot:

They got normal labour hour, nothing wrong, but their sometimes got... very easy jobs, like: cafe guard: this guy has to sit on a chair all day... to "guard" a café, offcourse nothing happens all day... he just sits there...falls asleep.. i've saw hundreds of the "easy, lazy" jobs. nothing wrong with them, i'm happy that those people got a relaxed life.

no problem with health & i stay with that: i asked many people about it, they still told me they got enough dokters


:)

[Karl Marx's Camel]

Ah yes, I agree, that's true. :)

There are people though, who work quite hard to make the ends meet, or so to speak. Like the Cubans say, life is not easy. And the govt has for once not neglected this and started highlighting how stress can be harmfull, treating it more like an ilness than anythign else. And now I think every Cuban can get free mud baths and acupuncture. I wish we had that where I live (can't afford either here).

So they Cubans you have talked to say they have enough doctors?

[YKTMX]

Neither socialism nor capitalism, eh comrade?

Cuba isn't socialist, it's a capitalist dictatorship.


Just middle of the road liberal moralising bullshit couched in clever-sounding phraseology to cover the fact that when the revolution comes you'll be running for the cover of the reactionary state..

When the revolution comes, the Cuban working class will hang the petty bureaucrats and take control over their own lives. In that instance, you'll be siding with the Cuban secret police and the concentration camp guards.


Why does YKTMX write this snotty drivel?

To annoy people like you, patently.


Is the problem really that cuba is not led by Cliffites?

Yes.


Hoping for bourgeois restoration so you can set up a chapter of the Pomintern?

Yes.


Not enough bourgeois bribes to settle you in your nice middle class lifestyle socialism?

Yes.


When the chips are down, comrade, which side of the barricade are you on? I think we've seen our answer.

Depends what you envisage the "sides" being.

I envisage the self-conscious Cuban working class becoming masters of their own history, overthrowing their exploiters and creating a toilers' democracy on the land of Cuba in the context of General world revolution.

You side with the torturers and Stalinist lampposts if you like. You'll lose.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

the concentration camp guards.

I don't think there are concentration camps today...? There were labor camps in the 60's though...

[Global_Justice]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2006, 06:30 PM
This is Cuba. Cuba is for Cubans.

nationality means nothing. it's non-existant, it's made-up.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

Sure. And Jean Baudrillard would've agreed with you!

It's just that, yes, Cubans can be quite nationalistic. It doesn't matter if it is made up or not. Of course, Cubans are very friendly to foreigners. They are famous for that, being open and friendly. That doesn't change the fact that Cubans in general are nationalistic.

And what is wrong with nationalism, especially when it comes to Cuba? In Cuba's case (I personally see) nationalism as progressive. Why?

Because the U.S. has tried to subdue and choke Cuba to death. They have invaded Cuba, occupied Cuba, run Cuba, plundered Cuba, terrorized Cuba, basically treated Cuba like a worthless hooker.

And now Cubans are proud to be, yes, Cubans. And they uphold their independence. Do you see how that nationalism actually can be progressive, seen in this context?

[RevMARKSman]

My local bourgeois newspaper covered the event (bold comments are mine):





<picture of rally>
Cuban workers attend a political gathering in support of Cuban President Fidel Castro in Havana, Cuba, Tuesday. Fidel Castro, who has defied the United States for nearly half a century while wielding absolute power (LMFAO&#33;) over this island 90 miles to the south of Florida, remained out of sight Tuesday after undergoing intestinal surgery and temporarily turning over power to his brother Raul.
U.S. plans for post-Castro Cuban era
By George Gedda
The Associated Press

WASHINGTON--The Bush administration dismissed Raul Castro, suddenly the acting leader in Cuba, as no more than a "prison-keeper" on Tuesday as officials reviewed long-standing plans for the post-Fidel Castro era.

"The fact that you have an autocrat handing power off to his brother does not mark an end to autocracy," White House spokesman Tony Snow said of the Castro brothers.

U.S. officials tried to evaluate the meaning of Monday&#39;s announcement that Fidel Castro had temporarily relinquished power to Raul because of an intestinal illness. Fidel Castro will be 80 in less than two weeks; Raul is 75.

One concern is possible post-Castro instability, leading to large-scale migration by Cubans to South Florida, similar to what transpired in 1980 and 1985. Another worry is that Castro&#39;s friends in the hemisphere, notably Venezuelan Presiden Hugo Chavez, might intervene to ensure that Castroite rule survives the aging leader&#39;s death.

U.S. officials generally declined to provide public insights Tuesday on the flavor of their deliberations.

The administration has labored (LOL) since the fall of 2003 on ways to hasten a transition to democratic rule in Cuba and to assist the island in recovering from what U.S. officials regard as 47 years (of?) at least try not to make errors, people communist AHEM--check the definition misrule.

Fidel Castro rejects the notion that the system he has put in place will give way to a democratic transition.

"We had our transition in 1959," Castro has said, referring to the years when, at age 32, he led a rebel band to victory over a rightist military dictator.

No country&#39;s succession has received more attention from the U.S. government than Cuba.
A presidential commission issued a report in 2004 that mapped plans to provide 100,000 tons of food to Cuba in short order after Castro&#39;s demise.

<Picture>

Cuban Leader Fidel Castro is helped by his brother, Raul Castro, to take his seat after arriving at the December 2004 National Assmebly in Havana, Cuba.

U.S. charities would be encouraged to create and contribute to a foundation to aid a "Free Cuba." I thought we already had a Free Cuba--maybe it isn&#39;t corporatist enough to be "free." American government officials would carry out a "needs assessment" as soon as possible. There are detailed plans for upgrading health and education systems.

The report also discusses ways to modernize Cuba&#39;s aviation, railroad and maritime infrastructure. It envisions U.S. assistance in holding free elections, fighting corruption (woohoo, hypocrisy&#33;) and establishing independent trade unions. According to the report, none of these actions would take place without Cuba&#39;s consent. Wait, so the island is supposed to talk now? How about being more specific and accountable by saying THE CUBAN PEOPLE?

An updated commission report, released three weeks ago, recommended that the United States provide &#036;80 million to support dissidents and non-governmental organizations on the island.

Sen. Christopher Dodd, D-Conn., said the administration should work to ensure that there is a soft landing in Cuba--as opposed to civil strife--once the Castro era is over.

"My hope would be the administration is working with our allies and other to prepare for an easier transition than might otherwise occur," he said.

Rep Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, R-Fla., a member of the House INternational Relations Committee who has long opposed Castro, said even a temporary relinquishment of power by Castro is "a great day for the Cuban people and for their brothers and sisters in exile."

"Fidel Castro has only brought ruin and misery to Cuba," she said. Please, don&#39;t give me a heart attack. I&#39;m too young to die&#33;

Sen. Mel Martinez, R-Fla., who like Ros-Lehtinen was born in Cuba, joined with her in saying that they expect U.S. action for now will be limited to transmitting radio messages to the Cuban people and preventing any influx of illegal immigrants (LMAO&#33; that seems like all they ever worry about) from the island.

Martinez also said he would not support lifting the U.S. embargo on Cuba until change was under way. Instead, the United States should lend its ear to political dissidents and pressure outside forces, such as Venezuela, to limit support of the communist (SIGH...can you shut the fuck up now?) government, the senator said.

Many in the U.S. declined to accept the Cuban announcement at face value.

"I don&#39;t know whether he&#39;s alive or dead," said Brian Latell, a former leading CIA Cuba analyst and author of the book "After Fidel."

Martinez agreed, saying Castro "may be very, very ill or dead."

Latell said that Raul Castro&#39;s rise to prominence has been orchestrated for some time, especially in the period surrounding his 75th birthday two months ago. Latell expressed doubt that Fidel Castro would ever regain full power even if his titles were restored.

Phil Peters, who heads the Cuba program at the Lexington Institute, a private research group, said he was struck by lack of information from Cuba about Castro&#39;s condition.

Concerning the official announcement of Castro&#39;s surgery, Peters said, "We have a statement from the patient but not the doctor."

He raised the possibility that the actions by the 79-year-old Cuban leader may be a dress rehearsal for his eventual death. The move by Castro to the sidelines may shed light on who among his subordinates and opponents harbors political ambitions, Peters said.

Comment on the article&#33; I spent 10 minutes typing this off the newspaper, bastards&#33;

[YKTMX]

Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2006, 03:10 PM

the concentration camp guards.

I don&#39;t think there are concentration camps today...? There were labor camps in the 60&#39;s though...
Oh right, so the Cuban working class collectively decided to eschew concentration camps, did they?

I&#39;d love to see the minutes for those meetings.

[Martin Blank]

The latest from my sources:...

Intellectuals and paper editors, together with UJC, has refused to do two things: a) mobilize people to greet Raul Castro in a planned public appearance designed to "introduce" the new Commander in Chief to the Cuban people and b) to publish anything prominent about RC in the media until top journalists are allowed to talk, even briefly, with Fidel.

As a result of a stalled Political Bureau meeting, no decision was taken on either case. RC&#39;s supporters stated at the meeting that the 6-month clause-amendment -- passed at the most recent party congress -- was triggered by Fidel&#39;s "proclamation" [What is this "clause-amendment"? -- HJM]. Lage said that the amendment, to be enforced, needs a full meeting of the State Council and final approval by the parliament (Asamblea Nacional por el Poder Popular). RC&#39;s people are saying that both Lage and Alarcon are dragging their feet on the issues.

Stay tuned....

Miles

[Karl Marx's Camel]

That&#39;s interesting Miles.

Please bring us more when you know more.

So there is apparently some internal division in the Cuban state right now?

[Global_Justice]

Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2006, 03:45 PM
Sure. And Jean Baudrillard would&#39;ve agreed with you&#33;

It&#39;s just that, yes, Cubans can be quite nationalistic. It doesn&#39;t matter if it is made up or not. Of course, Cubans are very friendly to foreigners. They are famous for that, being open and friendly. That doesn&#39;t change the fact that Cubans in general are nationalistic.

And what is wrong with nationalism, especially when it comes to Cuba? In Cuba&#39;s case (I personally see) nationalism as progressive. Why?

Because the U.S. has tried to subdue and choke Cuba to death. They have invaded Cuba, occupied Cuba, run Cuba, plundered Cuba, terrorized Cuba, basically treated Cuba like a worthless hooker.

And now Cubans are proud to be, yes, Cubans. And they uphold their independence. Do you see how that nationalism actually can be progressive, seen in this context?
yes nationalism can be progressive, but seldom is. and it&#39;s not progressive when you say cuba wouldn&#39;t want peoples help because they were a different &#39;nationality&#39; as you said &#39;cuba is for cubans&#39;.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

yes nationalism can be progressive, but seldom is. and it&#39;s not progressive when you say cuba wouldn&#39;t want peoples help because they were a different &#39;nationality&#39; as you said &#39;cuba is for cubans&#39;.


That might very well be. I&#39;m not trying to defend the Cuban views. I am merely highlighting them.

We should keep in mind that no people is 100 percent progressive. Cuba has its "drawbacks" just like every other nation and other people. For instance, Cuba is, despite the revolution, still quite a racist society.

[Janus]

With Castro currently ill, it looks like some exiles are gonna try to sneak back home.

My Webpage (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060802/us_nm/cuba_usa_boats_dc_1;_ylt=AnF5Vpvrn_2s9hmjCsE2pf9hx XsA;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl)

[southernmissfan]

It was only a matter of time before the gusanos tried something.

[Solitary Mind]

NWOG....your right...lol...Cuba is still racist, well not as much as before the Revolution, but still some racism...Alot of the rich white racists are now here in Miami....hate them all...

[Karl Marx's Camel]

Yeah, that&#39;s not suprising at all. Also look at how many white people there are among the Cuban exiles, compared to blacks. That is not the same black-white proportion as in Cuba. (at last that is my impression from seeing them on CNN)

[Rollo]

Anybody else hear about how George Bush has a plan to show the cuban people that there is a better way to live?

[Janus]

Anybody else hear about how George Bush has a plan to show the cuban people that there is a better way to live?
Yep, he&#39;s pushing very hard for his plan to send millions of dollars in aid to Cuban dissidents.

[RevMARKSman]

Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2006, 12:20 PM
My local bourgeois newspaper covered the event (bold comments are mine):





<picture of rally>
Cuban workers attend a political gathering in support of Cuban President Fidel Castro in Havana, Cuba, Tuesday. Fidel Castro, who has defied the United States for nearly half a century while wielding absolute power (LMFAO&#33;) over this island 90 miles to the south of Florida, remained out of sight Tuesday after undergoing intestinal surgery and temporarily turning over power to his brother Raul.
U.S. plans for post-Castro Cuban era
By George Gedda
The Associated Press

WASHINGTON--The Bush administration dismissed Raul Castro, suddenly the acting leader in Cuba, as no more than a "prison-keeper" on Tuesday as officials reviewed long-standing plans for the post-Fidel Castro era.

"The fact that you have an autocrat handing power off to his brother does not mark an end to autocracy," White House spokesman Tony Snow said of the Castro brothers.

U.S. officials tried to evaluate the meaning of Monday&#39;s announcement that Fidel Castro had temporarily relinquished power to Raul because of an intestinal illness. Fidel Castro will be 80 in less than two weeks; Raul is 75.

One concern is possible post-Castro instability, leading to large-scale migration by Cubans to South Florida, similar to what transpired in 1980 and 1985. Another worry is that Castro&#39;s friends in the hemisphere, notably Venezuelan Presiden Hugo Chavez, might intervene to ensure that Castroite rule survives the aging leader&#39;s death.

U.S. officials generally declined to provide public insights Tuesday on the flavor of their deliberations.

The administration has labored (LOL) since the fall of 2003 on ways to hasten a transition to democratic rule in Cuba and to assist the island in recovering from what U.S. officials regard as 47 years (of?) at least try not to make errors, people communist AHEM--check the definition misrule.

Fidel Castro rejects the notion that the system he has put in place will give way to a democratic transition.

"We had our transition in 1959," Castro has said, referring to the years when, at age 32, he led a rebel band to victory over a rightist military dictator.

No country&#39;s succession has received more attention from the U.S. government than Cuba.
A presidential commission issued a report in 2004 that mapped plans to provide 100,000 tons of food to Cuba in short order after Castro&#39;s demise.

<Picture>

Cuban Leader Fidel Castro is helped by his brother, Raul Castro, to take his seat after arriving at the December 2004 National Assmebly in Havana, Cuba.

U.S. charities would be encouraged to create and contribute to a foundation to aid a "Free Cuba." I thought we already had a Free Cuba--maybe it isn&#39;t corporatist enough to be "free." American government officials would carry out a "needs assessment" as soon as possible. There are detailed plans for upgrading health and education systems.

The report also discusses ways to modernize Cuba&#39;s aviation, railroad and maritime infrastructure. It envisions U.S. assistance in holding free elections, fighting corruption (woohoo, hypocrisy&#33;) and establishing independent trade unions. According to the report, none of these actions would take place without Cuba&#39;s consent. Wait, so the island is supposed to talk now? How about being more specific and accountable by saying THE CUBAN PEOPLE?

An updated commission report, released three weeks ago, recommended that the United States provide &#036;80 million to support dissidents and non-governmental organizations on the island.

Sen. Christopher Dodd, D-Conn., said the administration should work to ensure that there is a soft landing in Cuba--as opposed to civil strife--once the Castro era is over.

"My hope would be the administration is working with our allies and other to prepare for an easier transition than might otherwise occur," he said.

Rep Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, R-Fla., a member of the House INternational Relations Committee who has long opposed Castro, said even a temporary relinquishment of power by Castro is "a great day for the Cuban people and for their brothers and sisters in exile."

"Fidel Castro has only brought ruin and misery to Cuba," she said. Please, don&#39;t give me a heart attack. I&#39;m too young to die&#33;

Sen. Mel Martinez, R-Fla., who like Ros-Lehtinen was born in Cuba, joined with her in saying that they expect U.S. action for now will be limited to transmitting radio messages to the Cuban people and preventing any influx of illegal immigrants (LMAO&#33; that seems like all they ever worry about) from the island.

Martinez also said he would not support lifting the U.S. embargo on Cuba until change was under way. Instead, the United States should lend its ear to political dissidents and pressure outside forces, such as Venezuela, to limit support of the communist (SIGH...can you shut the fuck up now?) government, the senator said.

Many in the U.S. declined to accept the Cuban announcement at face value.

"I don&#39;t know whether he&#39;s alive or dead," said Brian Latell, a former leading CIA Cuba analyst and author of the book "After Fidel."

Martinez agreed, saying Castro "may be very, very ill or dead."

Latell said that Raul Castro&#39;s rise to prominence has been orchestrated for some time, especially in the period surrounding his 75th birthday two months ago. Latell expressed doubt that Fidel Castro would ever regain full power even if his titles were restored.

Phil Peters, who heads the Cuba program at the Lexington Institute, a private research group, said he was struck by lack of information from Cuba about Castro&#39;s condition.

Concerning the official announcement of Castro&#39;s surgery, Peters said, "We have a statement from the patient but not the doctor."

He raised the possibility that the actions by the 79-year-old Cuban leader may be a dress rehearsal for his eventual death. The move by Castro to the sidelines may shed light on who among his subordinates and opponents harbors political ambitions, Peters said.

Comment on the article&#33; I spent 10 minutes typing this off the newspaper, bastards&#33;
Re-posted because no one noticed it.

There was another blatant anti-Cuban article this morning, and this time I&#39;ll copy-paste and not leave my comments on it.


Cuban economy shows potential for growth
By Kevin G. Hall
McClatchy Newspapers
WASHINGTON -- For most of the past 47 years, Fidel Castro&#39;s Cuba has largely been shut out of the global economy by his fervent opposition to capitalism and the U.S. trade embargo.

But now, with Castro surrendering power to his brother and facing an uncertain medical future, change for the first time in years seems likely. In a post-Castro world, Cuba could become a land of opportunity.

Cuba&#39;s gross domestic product -- the value of its annual production of goods and services -- is about &#036;39 billion, according to the CIA. That&#39;s about the size of Kenya&#39;s and a tad larger than El Salvador&#39;s. Export commodities, including sugar, nickel, tobacco, fish, citrus and coffee, drive the Cuban economy, aided by tourism.

Planned and directed by the government for almost a half-century, Cuba&#39;s economy is largely isolated from market forces, and its industry and agriculture are notoriously inefficient. Yet against the odds, Cuba&#39;s pharmaceutical sector and its scientific research are on par with global leaders.

The island&#39;s 11.3 million inhabitants have an enormous pent-up consumer demand and a 97 percent literacy rate. That makes Cuba&#39;s workforce of 4.6 million presumably hungry to work and full of potential.

Post-Castro Cuba offers a promising export market for U.S. farmers and a potential investment venue for many U.S. companies.

"From the standpoint of a company looking to locate there, the prospects are quite good of having a well-educated, highly trainable workforce. That will not only result in more trade but attract more investment," said C. Parr Rosson III, an agricultural economist and Cuba expert at Texas A&M University-College Station.

Rosson believes that Cuba will rapidly transition out of its current low-skill, labor-intensive sectors to light manufacturing and high-tech jobs. That would allow Cuba to be competitive in a number of sectors.

Evidence of that came in July 2004 when the U.S. Treasury Department allowed California-based CancerVax Corp. to enter a licensing agreement for three experimental anti-cancer drugs being developed by Cuba&#39;s Center for Molecular Immunology. It followed a 1999 move by the U.S. government to allow SmithKline Beecham to conduct clinical trials on a Cuban experimental vaccine for meningitis B.

If Cuban pharmaceuticals hold promise, U.S. farmers already see Cuba as an important new market. In January, for the first time ever, the entire board of directors of the U.S. Grains Council traveled to Havana. There, they inked a memo of understanding in which Cuba committed itself to purchase 700,000 metric tons of U.S. corn during the 2006/2007 growing season.

Cuba also committed to purchase an unspecified amount of distilled dry grains, a mash that&#39;s left over when corn is fermented and made into ethanol for fuel. The mash is used to feed swine, poultry, cattle, even fish like tilapia.

"When you have this proximity, it would just make sense that they are an important market to us, if things turn out that way" in post-Castro Cuba, said Cheri Johnson, spokeswoman for the grains council in Washington, D.C.

The Cuban purchase of U.S. corn is still a fraction of the 5.76 million metric tons imported by Mexico in the 2004/2005 season. But the average import tariff around the globe for farm products is 60 percent, and Cuba erects no such barrier to farm products it desperately needs. It&#39;s also becoming a promising market for U.S. exports of fresh meats, especially poultry.

New Orleans did more business with Cuba, primarily imports of Cuban sugar, than any other U.S. port before Castro seized power in 1959. Gary LeGrange, president and CEO of the Port of New Orleans, traveled there in 2004 to begin preparing for a post-Castro world.

"Without predicting when that may be, when it does happen we see a lot of possibilities and a lot of hope for the future," LeGrange said.

Cuba also offers potential in the energy sector. It has forged production-sharing agreements with Canadian and Spanish companies and is actively extracting offshore oil and natural gas about 90 miles from Florida.

The U.S. Geological Survey in 2004 confirmed the existence of large quanties of quality crude oil and natural gas in the North Cuba Basin just east of Havana. Energy companies from India, Norway, China, Spain and Canada are now involved in drilling for oil in Cuba&#39;s territorial waters.

The upper range of prospects suggests there may be 9.3 billion barrels of crude and 21.8 trillion cubic feet of natural gas recoverable off the Cuban coast. That&#39;s three times the natural gas expected to be tapped from the Gulf of Mexico off the coastline of Florida and Alabama, as authorized this week by the U.S. Senate.

For all Cuba&#39;s potential, there&#39;s much unfinished business. Since Castro effectively nationalized the entire economy, the day Cuba rejoins the global economic order, an army of lawyers is sure to invade to fight over property ownership rights and trademarks for rum and cigars. Castro owes creditors about &#036;14 billion.

"Do expect lawsuits," said Anthony Villamil, a former U.S. undersecretary of commerce.

For now, all eyes are on Cuba to gauge the gravity of Castro&#39;s illness and what might come next.

"There are probably more opinions on what is going to happen after Fidel dies than there are people in Cuba," cautioned Jerry Haar, a business professor at Florida International University in Miami.

[southernmissfan]

By "potential for growth" they mean white people from American and Europe being able to go to the beach, casinos, and shopping malls while all the Cubans live like shit. Actually, kind of how it was before the revolution.

[which doctor]

Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2006, 11:13 AM

Anybody else hear about how George Bush has a plan to show the cuban people that there is a better way to live?
Yep, he&#39;s pushing very hard for his plan to send millions of dollars in aid to Cuban dissidents.
Hasn&#39;t he already sent millions to cuban dissidents both in Miami and in Cuba?

[Janus]

Hasn&#39;t he already sent millions to cuban dissidents both in Miami and in Cuba?
Yes, but he&#39;s also pushing for more. Around 80 million I believe and he might increase that since his fortune teller told him so. :lol:

[bloody_capitalist_sham]

Do you think this will lead to the marketization of Cuba?

What will happen a raul and fidel both die within a few years of each other?

Would there political reform in cuba? and keep cuba moving towards socialism?

Im so confused about this all, i dread seeing cuba fall to imperialism on the news anytime soon.

[More Fire for the People]

Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2006, 02:20 PM
Do you think this will lead to the marketization of Cuba?
No.

What will happen a raul and fidel both die within a few years of each other?
Nothing. Raul probably won&#39;t be elected President, Roque probably would.

Would there political reform in cuba? and keep cuba moving towards socialism?
The development of socialism in Cuba is only hindered by the scarcity of resources.

Im so confused about this all, i dread seeing cuba fall to imperialism on the news anytime soon.
At least someone does :)

[southernmissfan]

I don&#39;t know how true this is it--after all, it came from the bourgeois press--but they&#39;re saying Raul is more likely to implement something like the Chinese system.

[Janus]

Looks like Fidel may be dividing the leadership in Cuba and selecting six people to run certain projects while Raul acts as the head of state.

Collective leadership possible in Cuba (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060803/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/cuba_collective_rule;_ylt=ApjRIK_rsKMal7frl0AJz4dv aA8F;_ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ--)

[Karl Marx's Camel]

Regarding Mile&#39;s post.

Any idea what this "proclamation" might be (is it a code-word for something more serious)?

What is this "clause-amendment"?

[RedDan]

Originally posted by Fist of Blood+Aug 3 2006, 05:24 PM--> (Fist of Blood @ Aug 3 2006, 05:24 PM)
[email protected] 3 2006, 11:13 AM

Anybody else hear about how George Bush has a plan to show the cuban people that there is a better way to live?
Yep, he&#39;s pushing very hard for his plan to send millions of dollars in aid to Cuban dissidents.
Hasn&#39;t he already sent millions to cuban dissidents both in Miami and in Cuba? [/b]
He&#39;s probably sent the CIA to train them too.

Although on the news it looked as though the dissidents in Miami had enjoyed the American Dream too much (or at least the McDonnalds dream&#33;).

Also, regarding southernmissfan&#39;s post, I beleive that Raul, along with Che Guevara, were the reason that Cuba became communist. The 26th of July movement was not Communist when it invaded Cuba, just a little left.

[Axel1917]

Originally posted by YKTMX+Aug 1 2006, 05:49 PM--> (YKTMX &#064; Aug 1 2006, 05:49 PM)
[email protected] 1 2006, 04:08 AM
The US media is like a 14 year old girl.
The people on here aren&#39;t much better, more like the mirror images.

An unelected bureaucrat hands over power to his brother without even pretending to pay any attention to the people he rules and the best the people on here can do is "wish him well".



Hopefully Fidel&#39;s got the same doctor as his friend Uncle Joe. [/b]
And what is your point? No matter what you think of Cuba, things will only go backward if imperialists gain a foothold. Castro is vehemently opposed to capitalism being returned in Cuba, of which would probably make it another Haiti. Even a deformed workers&#39; state is better than no workers&#39; state at all, and today&#39;s Russia is even worse than Stalinism was. A deformed workers&#39; state should be defended by all leftists against imperialism. There are some gains in such a state, unlike capitalism, and to just hope for its destruction in a time of crisis is just downright reactionary.


Cuba isn&#39;t socialist, it&#39;s a capitalist dictatorship.

That "theory" of Cliff&#39;s has never been shown by history to hold any water.


A workers state which is not run by workers, is not a workers state at all, I say.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deformed_workers_state

IMT statement on the issue at hand:

http://www.marxist.com/cuba-solidarity-cap...imperialism.htm (http://www.marxist.com/cuba-solidarity-capitalism-imperialism.htm)

[Karl Marx's Camel]

Even a deformed workers&#39; state is better than no workers&#39; state at all

A workers state which is not run by workers, is not a workers state at all, I say.

[*PRC*Kensei]

Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2006, 10:20 PM

Even a deformed workers&#39; state is better than no workers&#39; state at all

A workers state which is not run by workers, is not a workers state at all, I say.
Cuba is socialism. runned by a communist party (with elections within that party, a limited democraty), so socialism with the goal to "once" become communism, but they need many conditions for that.

they do not claim to be communist. communism is a long progress, you can speed it up.. like the bigger country&#39;s tried, but with the speeding comes a cost.

cuba takes it nice & slowely so it&#39;s people wont have to sacrifice on the long road of socialism, leading to communism.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

Cuba is socialism.

Cuba consist of a lot of islands, and is a geographical area and a nation, last time I checked.


cuba takes it nice & slowely so it&#39;s people wont have to sacrifice on the long road of socialism, leading to communism.

The regime takes it "nice & slowely"



they do not claim to be communist.

They (Fidel, Raul, Lage, Felipe etc.) claim to be communists, do they not?