Best 30 Second Reply

[Delta]

Whenever someone talks to someone about capitalism, it seems the most common criticism is "what would be the motivation to work outside of capitalism be, i.e., why wouldn't people just freeload off of others?"

This is a very easy question to answer, but if you're at a party or something you don't have time to go into a lot of details, you have to offer a quick response. If the response is concise and convincing enough, you might buy yourself enough time to discuss it in more detail. So I was wondering, what would your 30 second response to this question be?

Personally I feel that thinking about my responses to these types of questions are worthwhile, because if I'm caught off-guard I'll always end up later thinking "damn, I should have said this".

[An archist]

I don't know about that particular question, but whenever someone says to me "anarchy wouldn't work because there will allways be people that try to take advantage of others" I usually answer "So why give them the chance to get in power and really screw people over?"

[Janus]

We have plenty of this in OI, Learning, and the High school Commies's guide.

Moved to Learning.

[bezdomni]

I am working on writing a pamphlet with some comrades that will give a brief and simple answer to bourgois apologist criticisms of Marxism. We're going to be submitting it to the WIL editing board sometime in August hopefully.

I recommend everybody get a copy for their silly capitalist friends. :P

[Janus]

So, this is similar to the "High School Commie's Guide" thread in Practice?

[Enragé]

Originally posted by [email protected] 31 2006, 09:04 PM
I am working on writing a pamphlet with some comrades that will give a brief and simple answer to bourgois apologist criticisms of Marxism. We're going to be submitting it to the WIL editing board sometime in August hopefully.

I recommend everybody get a copy for their silly capitalist friends. :P
could you like post it here? ;)

[Severian]

I don't think this is a simple question. To some extent it hasn't been answered in practice yet. That is, all real-world postcapitalist economies have had real problems with this.

But briefly, there's 2 points:
1. At first, we can use some money incentives: productivity bonuses and so forth.
2. Long run: why do you help a friend move? 'Cause it has to be done. People are capable of working for the satisfaction of it and helping the community.

And people work too long and hard now.

[Delta]

Originally posted by [email protected] 31 2006, 09:39 AM
We have plenty of this in OI, Learning, and the High school Commies's guide.


Maybe we do, I glanced in the HS commie guide but didn't see anything and decided against looking through the 9 pages of comments :P


could you like post it here

Yes, that might be useful.


To some extent it hasn't been answered in practice yet

I guess it has occured in some sense in other countries for brief periods of time, such as revolutionary Spain. But the people were also under the threat of war, and that's certainly a powerful motivator.

[OneBrickOneVoice]

Not the hardest punch. What I say is ...

1. (community stops working)If people do freeload they will live poorly
2. (one or two people stop working) your co-workers will have to do more work and will get pissed at you for slacking off.

3. by the time of the revolution, the people will really want communism. They'll know the consequences of slacking off (USSR, CUBA) but want a better system which ends poverty and starvation

4. (a little mopre capitalistic) there could be a system of LTVs (See my blog entry it, too lazy to retype).

I think the most annoying attack on communism is that it's totalitarian and that it has never worked before. I have a little more trouble with that.

[RedJacobin]

"What's the motivation to work under capitalism?"

this is good:
http://www.marxmail.org/faq/is_profit_necessary.htm

[emma_goldman]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2006, 07:18 PM
Whenever someone talks to someone about capitalism, it seems the most common criticism is "what would be the motivation to work outside of capitalism be, i.e., why wouldn't people just freeload off of others?"

This is a very easy question to answer, but if you're at a party or something you don't have time to go into a lot of details, you have to offer a quick response. If the response is concise and convincing enough, you might buy yourself enough time to discuss it in more detail. So I was wondering, what would your 30 second response to this question be?

Personally I feel that thinking about my responses to these types of questions are worthwhile, because if I'm caught off-guard I'll always end up later thinking "damn, I should have said this".
Well, I don't know if it's exactly 30 seconds but I think that people take a lot of pride in their work and don't abhor labor but rather the work that occurs under capitalism and under bosses where someone is constantly riding their ass, telling them what to do and when to do it, etc. Also, when people aren't getting rich off the backs of others, work will be much more enjoyable. For instance, a mechanic may love to fix cars but not love to go to work and fix cars for his boss.

Does that kind of make sense? :unsure:

[Delta]

Originally posted by [email protected] 31 2006, 04:49 PM
"What's the motivation to work under capitalism?"

this is good:
http://www.marxmail.org/faq/is_profit_necessary.htm
That is a pretty good answer, although it'd be tough to get it all in 30 seconds :P That's actually similar to what I have responded to people with in the past.


Does that kind of make sense? unsure.gif

Yes, it does. Capitalists seem to put so much emphasis on the motivation for the great "Entrepreneurs" who through their "hard work" and initiative take care of the rest of society and are thus deserving of reward for it. But you're right, for the vast majority of people, not being forced to work would surely make it more enjoyable. And these are the people who produce essentially everything that is created in society.

[RevSouth]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2006, 10:54 PM
Capitalists seem to put so much emphasis on the motivation for the great "Entrepreneurs" who through their "hard work" and initiative take care of the rest of society and are thus deserving of reward for it. But you're right, for the vast majority of people, not being forced to work would surely make it more enjoyable. And these are the people who produce essentially everything that is created in society.
Its as if they are applauded for exploiting others :angry: I think work outside of a capitalist society would be great (especially gift economy!), instead of making wages for yourself, you would know everything you did was indirectly helping every person. I also feel like capitalism is what makes people resent work, because its something they have to do, just to keep themselves afloat.

[RevolutionaryMarxist]

When is this pamphlet coming out? I find it would be a lot easier to simply have set responses instead of me personally having to make a new response to everyone who asks me a question about communism that i answered to someone else before -

so yea when is it coming out?