Cenus Time Again

[apathy maybe]

Census time is coming closer here in Australia. And I was wondering what Leftists (particularly the anti-state sorts) thought of the concept of a census.

I am still deciding whether I want to fill it in or not, here are the arguments,

The first is the obvious who would want to help the state argument. And this is quite plausible. There are nasty fines ($100 a day!, that is shit loads more then not voting!) for getting caught.

The other side is that it does help. It provides all sorts of interesting data for everyone. Sure states will use the info to allocate money or not (take money from poor areas, allocate to rich no doubt), but it is useful for other things as well.

So what do you think?

[Clutch]

I am an African/Arab lesbian and my religion is Druid?

[Mujer Libre]

Well, it's useful to have certain types of data, but on the other hand I'm not comfortable with the state having that data, especially the way things are progressing at the moment. Also I think the options are hugely biased- like I think the gender category is a multiple choice with male and female being the only choices... Hurrah. :rolleyes:

[Morag]

We just did ours here in Canada, with an extra option of allowing all information you put down to be released in about a hundred years.

I don't really have a problem with censuses (censi? gaa), probably because I'm a history student and constantly coming up against the wall of having very little confirmable data. However, in Canada there is no fine for not participating. If tehre were a fine, I'd probably take a much different line on it. The census is so interesting to me because for the most part, the information touches on things that people never discuss with strangers, but freely gives up with anonymity- allowing it to be representative. It can never be truly correct, because for instance people without addresses don't give census information, but as a snapshot of one day in time of a nation, it can provide huge amounts of information.

[The Sloth]

nothing wrong with a census. information is information, and i find most of it very, very useful.

but, wait.. there are fines for not voting in australia?

holy shit.

[Qwerty Dvorak]

I think the census would be essential to the running of a Communist society, as the government needs to know as much as possible about society in order to plan and improve it.

[Led Zeppelin]

There is no "government" in communism....

[The Sloth]

Originally posted by Marxism-[email protected] 30 2006, 03:41 PM
There is no "government" in communism....
of course there is.

it may not be a 'government' in the sense that we're used to, it may not be some kind of political structure or bureaucracy, but it's still a sort of institution.. an institution completely under the control of the people, for the people, is an institution nonetheless.

any type of management, any type of planning and et cetera are forms of control and distribution. there's nothing wrong with that in itself.. it's simply the form of control and management and distribution that counts towards anything tangible.

so, i distrust the word "government", but only because of structures the word implies today. of course, we could, instead, use a phrase like "de-centralized management" or "directly-democratic commune", but i sometimes prefer a spoon, not a mouthful.

[Qwerty Dvorak]

Originally posted by Marxism-[email protected] 30 2006, 03:41 PM
There is no "government" in communism....
Forgive me, I meant Socialist society. It's a newb's mistake, and I don't usually make it :blush:

[RedAnarchist]

What would be the general view of family history in a communist society? Censuses are often used to trace family back, and this is a very popular hobby.

Would we abandon censuses for such purposes and manually record our own family history down the centuries if a family wanted to do so?

[The Sloth]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2006, 08:15 PM
What would be the general view of family history in a communist society? Censuses are often used to trace family back, and this is a very popular hobby.

Would we abandon censuses for such purposes and manually record our own family history down the centuries if a family wanted to do so?
i don't see why anyone would want to abandon the census.

if you want to manually record your family history, sure, go ahead.. no rational person would object.

[apathy maybe]

The point about the census is that it is a government thing. Once more the government is enforcing its will upon the masses.

I guess people just think it is a good idea?

(And yes in Australia people are supposed to vote. I didn't at the last state election, but I have yet to be summoned to court about it. They did ask me to pay an "administrative fee" which I ignored.)

[Morag]

I guess i do think censuses are a good idea. (Censi? WTF is the plural? Is it like the plural of caucus being cauci? [That is so immaturely funny]) There are risks, yeah, but the government knows tonnes about you anyway, i guess. All in all, I think RedStar1918 has a good point about the role censuses (grr) can play in a different type of society.

[Rollo]

Apathy why not just vote third party? :D Throwing away your votes into people you know won't win is a good idea. Also the census helps educate the children. Text books have data about peoples birth rate and stuff like that. Population pyramids etc.

[Led Zeppelin]

Originally posted by BM
any type of management, any type of planning and et cetera are forms of control and distribution. there's nothing wrong with that in itself.. it's simply the form of control and management and distribution that counts towards anything tangible.


There is no need for society to distribute anything, in communism each will take freely "according to his needs".

[Janus]

Here in the US, the census is generally used for election purposes.

I see nothing wrong with gathering info and it is quite useful to have stats on demographics,etc.