After Revolution

[Fawkes]

After the Capitalist system is overthrown, what next. Cause I know that I, as an anarchist, would never "bow down" to a communist party headed by some Leninist fool. What'll happen? Will it be Anarchists vs. Marxists vs. Leninists vs. Stalinists and Nazis. (I bet a bunch of people will get pissed off by the fact that I just compared Stalin to Hitler).

[Janus]

There is disagreement among on the left on what to do. Should we immediately get rid of the state and pursue communism or instill a worker's state.

I'm guessing that if an elite group does try to impose itself on the people, infighting may break out.

Moved to learning.

[Whitten]

A socialist transition state should only have power over the non-proletarian classes. There would be no requirement that this "state" (defined here as the means for one class to oppress others) should have the "monopoly on the legit use of force" which, I think, is what Anarchists oppose. So in short, I dont really see that a difference is necessary between marxists and anarchists

[ComradeOm]

The proletariat will do whatever they hell they themselves want to do. However as long as class divisions remain then the state will remain. Should, by some upset of history, anarchism be the most common ideology amongst the workers then they will either have to compromise their ideals or fail in creating a stateless society.

[rebelworker]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2006, 12:15 PM
Should, by some upset of history, anarchism be the most common ideology amongst the workers then they will either have to compromise their ideals or fail in creating a stateless society.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


had a good chuckel at that one.

Seeing as anarchism and revolutionary syndicalism were the dominant revolutionary ideologies among the working class internationaly before the russian revolution, and now the methods of the bolshevik party, which lead many workers astray after the "success" of the russian revolution, have been discredited in the eyes of the majority of the working class worldwide (some of this is for negative reasosn).

I now see the researgence of anarchism as an answer to the questions left unanswered by capitalism and authoritarian socialism as the logical path of history.


As for the original question, I hope to see democratic controll by the working class instituted as soon as possible, in order to prepare people for a full transition to communism. Im sure, if like in the past, authoritarian vanguard parties try and impose their leadership on the working class, there will unfortunately be a conflict. I hope unlike Spain in 36, this dosent hurt the fight against the right too much.

Only time will tell.

[Fawkes]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2006, 12:15 PM
The proletariat will do whatever they hell they themselves want to do. However as long as class divisions remain then the state will remain. Should, by some upset of history, anarchism be the most common ideology amongst the workers then they will either have to compromise their ideals or fail in creating a stateless society.


Of course, another ignorant Leninist who feels that the Bolsheviks truly represent the people, particularly the working class.

[ComradeOm]

Originally posted by rebelworker+Jul 29 2006, 04:46 PM--> (rebelworker @ Jul 29 2006, 04:46 PM)had a good chuckel at that one.

Seeing as anarchism and revolutionary syndicalism were the dominant revolutionary ideologies among the working class internationaly before the russian revolution, and now the methods of the bolshevik party, which lead many workers astray after the "success" of the russian revolution, have been discredited in the eyes of the majority of the working class worldwide (some of this is for negative reasosn).

I now see the researgence of anarchism as an answer to the questions left unanswered by capitalism and authoritarian socialism as the logical path of history.


As for the original question, I hope to see democratic controll by the working class instituted as soon as possible, in order to prepare people for a full transition to communism. Im sure, if like in the past, authoritarian vanguard parties try and impose their leadership on the working class, there will unfortunately be a conflict. I hope unlike Spain in 36, this dosent hurt the fight against the right too much.

Only time will tell.[/b]
I aim to please.

You can have every last worker prostrating themselves before the black flag and it won't make a difference. As long as you have different classes then you will have a state. Period. The banner that the workers march under matters not at all.

Let's go with your assumption that anarchists will dominate come the revolution. What happens then? You jump straight to communism? Impossible. The proletariat will still need a state to manage its interests. So what do the anarchists do? They can either compromise (as they did in Spain) or simply go into denial as the proletarian state is formed. In the case of the latter then the revolutionary movement could no longer said to be anarchist. Those who attempt to destroy this new worker state will be dealt with.

Now, and I'm sure this is a difficult concept for you to grasp, this does not involve phrases such as "vanguard party", "Leninist" or "Dear Leader". This is simply to do with the nature of both the state and the proletariat. As I said - the proletariat will act regardless of whether the hammer and sickle or black flag is hoisted highest.


Freedom for all...ALL
Of course, another ignorant Leninist who feels that the Bolsheviks truly represent the people, particularly the working class.
Well given that you've done such a good job in deconstructing my statement I feel that there's little I can do except pour scorn on your stereotypes and ignorance. I try to enter into every discussion assuming that the other posters, even anarchists, are not complete idiots and are capable of reading. In this case I was obviously mistaken.

Please enlighten me. Did my prior statement mention "Leninism", "Bolshevism", "communist party" or "Leninist fool"? Or did I simply lay out the Marxist position that the proletarian state will occur, whether anarchists like it or not, and that the positions of anarchists and Marxists are irrelevant as "The proletariat will do whatever they hell they themselves want to do."

No doubt the fact that I'm an "ignorant Leninist" blinded me as to the nature of your original question. While I was assuming that you were actually posing a question as to the role of ideology in a post-revolution society; what I should have read was a plea for some likeminded anarchists to reassure you that the anarchists would kick Marxist ass and that Stalin was indeed as bad as Hitler. Clearly my mistake.

In hindsight the fact that you actually believe that Nazis might exist in a post-revolution society, never mind ally with Stalinists, should have given me plenty of warning as to what to expect from this thread. I know that's more than you're used to reading but please try and get through it all before replying with inane attacks.