alf - any suporters?

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

any one here suports the animal liberation front?

[canikickit]

I don't really know who they are. If you support them, surely you'd be able to write a paragraph on them.

I am in favour of humane treatment towards animals. But I don't think animals "deserve our respect too", or such similar statements. I think some animals are for eating.

[Vinny Rafarino]

Agreed kickit....what exactly is the "front" attempting to liberate animals from?

[Jesus Christ]

damn... i though you were talking about the alien at first... so i was about to give you a good lashing
but... sure why not... good cause

[Pete]

Fuck I lost yet another post in the "Che-Lives server not working" syndrom :(

I basically said 'These guys scare me shitless,a nd I would not be surprised if PETA or ALF started airing commericals after midnight of people fucking animals to create support for their causes."

Ecology is necassary, but some people take it to ridiculous levels.

[Hampton]

I support humane treatment for humans before animals.

[Jesus Christ]

if it was up to me.... the animals would be running wild and plentiful everywhere
but since we are here and have practically have already ruined the earth... we have to look out for our own well being while helping to preserve the animal population at the same time

[mentalbunny]

I'm for no factory farming, no hunting and no testing cosmetics and toiletries on animals, only drugs. I follow the Albert Schwitzer opinions on this kind of stuff, he was an awesome dude.

[Valkyrie]

Hey MB! I bet you know this already.. but I'm sure some don't so, I thought I'd mention it. Albert Schweitzer is a cousin to Jean-Paul Sartre.

(Edited by Paris at 7:14 am on June 21, 2003)

[mentalbunny]

I didn't know that Paris, thanks.

[canikickit]

Why should animals not be eaten? What about our precious food chain? Animals are for eating.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

What is the matter with raising animals in order to later eat them?

[tacoernie]

raising animals in factory farms mans that they live lives of pain with no dignity. i have no problem with eating things i have caught myself, but this sort of treatment has no justification.
victor -have you ever been inside a factory farm? they are the most appalling examples of what humanity does to its fellow inhabitants of the planet. there is nz's largest battery hen farm just north of where i grew up, where almost a million chiockens are kept inside a shed. their beaks are burnt off, they are kept in tiny cages, never see the light, never scratch in the earth, never strecth their wings, live in the stink of their own shit, the sick are trampled to death, any males are killed as chicks. all this so humanity can have eggs.
it has been shown that humanity can survive on a vegan diet, so the only reason meat is eaten is to satisfy appitite.
how can we treat animals in this manner for the sake of our tastebuds?
let alone that we might have cosmectics.
i have huge respect of alf/elf, and consider them non violent -they never endanger human/non-human life, only take out the violent machinery. to remove a mechansim of violence is to end violence.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

ending the sort of misstreatment that tacoernie just illustarted would be very importand and necessary.
But that does not mean that rasing animals strictly for food is funadmentaly bad.

[Pete]

"A moved bear is a dead bear"

That statement makes the PETA people in my class mad...they think bears can live in harmony, so finding a bear near town should be moved not shot, although it has been proven that if it is shot then it will 1) not return and 2) not die a slow death, or subject a nother bear to a slow death... .: shooting is more humane.

[Valkyrie]

meat is a multi-billion dollar, maybe more, corporate industry. You could nicely sustain yourself with a $10.00-$20.00 a season container garden.

This is how easy it is to grow. A neighbor of mine supplies me with buckets of tomatos from a tomato plant that she didn't grow. She has lived in the same place for 15 years and mysteriously this tomato plant cropped up on the side of her house. She figures a bird came by and dropped a seed and with rain and sun it propagated itself. She has so many tomatos she has to give them away.

Do not support the meat industry! The meat industry along with all the vestiges of capitalism has got to go!


(Edited by Paris at 7:16 am on June 21, 2003)

[Pete]

The meat industry, yes. But not meat eating. There are many people around here with cattle farms who cry when they have to kill the cows (the kids atleast)...but they need to live somehow.

[OctoberRevolution]

Sustaining from meat can save lives...

In 1974, Lester Brown of the Overseas Development Council estimated that if Americans were to reduce their meat consumption by only 10 percent for one year, it would free at least 12 million tons of grain for human consumption -- enough to feed 60 million people. Don Paarlberg, a former U.S. assistant secretary of agriculture, has said that merely reducing the U.S. livestock population by half would make available enough food to make up the calorie deficit of the nonsocialist, underdevelepod nations nearly four times over. [Resource: Boyce Rensberger, "Curb on U.S. Waste Urged to Help World's Hungry," The New York Times, October 25, 1974.]

Alan Durning, a researcher at the Worldwatch Institute in Washington D.C., has calculated that one pound of steak from steers raised in feedlots costs five pounds of grain, 2,500 gallons of water, the energy equivalent of a gallon of gasoline, and about 35 pounds of eroded topsoil. More than a third of North America is taken up with grazing, more than half of U.S. croplands are planted with livestock feed, and more than half of all water consumed in the United States goes to livestock. [Resource: Science News, March 5, 1988, p.153, citing Worldwatch, January/February 1988.]

A pound of meat requires 50 times as much water as an equivalent of wheat. [Resource: Keith Akers, "A Vegetarian Source Book," p.100, based on D. Pimental and M. Pimental, "Food, Energy, and Society" (New York: Wiley, 1979), pp. 56, 59, and U.S. Department of Agriculture, "Nutritive Value of American Foods" (Washington D.C.: U.S. Government Printing Office 1975).] Newsweek has described the loss of water in feeding animals when it said, "The water that goes into a 1000 pound steer would float a destroyer." [Resource: "The Browning of America," Newsweek, February 22, 1981, p. 26; quoted by John Robbins, "Diet for a New America" (Walpole, N.H.: Stillpoint, 1987), p. 367.]

[Valkyrie]

Excellent statistics, Oct. Rev! If that doesn't make one beg off on meat, than nothing will.

[Dirty Commie]

Quote: from canikickit on 9:18 pm on June 7, 2003
I think some animals are for eating.


That is horrible, I think some Irish people are for eating...besides, ask any cannable, vegetarians taste better, which means when we have to eat Soylent green, people like myself will be of a higher quality human food product.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Quote: from CrazyPete on 7:47 pm on June 8, 2003
"A moved bear is a dead bear"

That statement makes the PETA people in my class mad...they think bears can live in harmony, so finding a bear near town should be moved not shot, although it has been proven that if it is shot then it will 1) not return and 2) not die a slow death, or subject a nother bear to a slow death... .: shooting is more humane.


I don't understand

[Valkyrie]

Here's a link to Container Gardens. Page 2 is Vegetables.

Even, if you don't use one for food, .... In my opinion, it's one of the things all revolutionaries/socialists should atleast know how to do. And everyone should be trying to organize community gardens in their zone.

http://www.gardenguides.com/TipsandTechniq...s/container.htm (http://www.gardenguides.com/TipsandTechniques/container.htm)

http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/extensi.../container.html (http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/extension/container/container.html)




(Edited by Paris at 4:31 am on June 9, 2003)

[Dirty Commie]

Quote: from Paris on 11:26 pm on June 8, 2003
Here's a link to Container Gardens. Page 2 is Vegetables.

Even, if you don't use one for food, .... In my opinion, it's one of the things all revolutionaries/socialists should atleast know how to do. And everyone should be trying to organize community gardens in their zone.

http://www.gardenguides.com/TipsandTechniq...s/container.htm (http://www.gardenguides.com/TipsandTechniques/container.htm)



That is a good, point, food would be in short supply, and growing your own in the jungle would be more logical than going into a town and risk getting caught.

[Urban Rubble]

PETA is a bunch of liberal hippy college kids *****ing and protesting but getting nothing done, plus they have alot of really stupid views.

ALF is a group of people that have different views from PETA, plus they are actually getting things done, sabotage etc..

TacoErnie, good post, you beat me to it.

I agree that animals are to be used for eating, it's only natural, humans are carnivores. The conditions these animals are kept in are not necessary, they are kept in such conditions to save the corporation money.

Many slaughterhouses follow this procedure for harvesting chickens : Take them out of their cage alive, stab it though a hook onto a production line, the line goes through differnt stages, first their wings are ripped off, second their legs that last step is the head, all while they are alive. God forbid they would kill them before all of this.

Are you aware of the conditions cows are raised in ? I could go on forever but I won't. Large corporate slaughterhouses cannot be justified. Eat all the meat you want, but there are ways of obtaining meat without using McDonalds or wherever you go.

[kidicarus20]

I like the ELF and the ALF (they are connected), they do shit, all the time, they batch in SUV windows, and blow shit up, and bomb leather stores, and destroy farming equipment, and it's funny. The ALF in salt lake holds a world record for like 2.6 million dollars in damage to some farm or something like that, I'm proud of it.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Yrabn Rubble, we are not Caenivores but omnivores, we eat both meat and veg.
Look inside your mouth, you will most probably find some teeth that are slightly more pointed than the others. These are called your canines... Lions (Who are meat-eaters) have a mouth full of them. scientists can tell an animal's diet just by looking at their jawbone.
so, obviously by the presence of our canines, we where supposed to eat at last some meat (Not no meat at all like some veggies claim.)No, you can't get all your protein from plants, not without eating fairly exotic (And expensive) matter like soya.
Don't like the idea of eating a cute little lamb? try eating grubs or honeypot ants... just as much protein in them, and not so cute. too revolting? too bad.
there ain't much other sources of protein.

[truthaddict11]

yeah i am all against the use of fur, and the how we mistreat animals for farming such as dairy farming ect but i still think that we should eat meat. i dont see any carnivore or omnivores of any other species on Earth going herbivore, if you want to be vegan or vegetatian go ahead i will take my steak and eat it.

[Kez]

the eating im not arsed against
the testing on animals is unneccesary and is only for the capitalists benefit.

these organisations are pointless, in a socialist society these things would be sorted out anyway, we wud not be overproducing to subsidise the shitty farms as the CAP does instead making enough for us to eat. one of these groups IS violent, recently they injured someone for at this animal testing plant for medicine (not cosmetics)

[Urban Rubble]

Noxio, why in the fuck did you just assume I was a vegetarian ? I eat meat, I just don't support corporate slaughterhouses. I hunt for my own meat, just like humans are meant too. I buy my beef from local farmers who raise there cows in a feild and humanely, like they should be raised. I don't give a shit about the "cute little lamb" I care because that lamb was raised tortured from birth. I'm all for eating meat, I'm against mass torture and slaughter for profit.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

oops.
Sorry, I read my post again and it sounded kind of patronising.
Also only the first sentence was addressed to you, but I didn't spell that out. Oops again.
The rest of it was directed against those kind of people who believe that eating meat in any way is wrong.
what those idiots fail to realise is that it's not meat that kills you, it's the poor quality shit that is pumped out of corporate slaughterhouses in the name of profit.
Do they really do that to chickens? where on earth do they do that? I hope it's not where I live.

[Urban Rubble]

O.K, that's fine. I was a little pissed.

As far as the chickens, I'm pretty sure that's standard protocol for slaughterhouses. Anyway these people can save a few pennies they will, even if it means torturing animals. It's sick and it really makes me sad more people won't wake up.

If you have the oppurtunity to, hunt your own food. Nothing is more satisfying than eating meat you got yourself, just like the human race USED to do. It's sad having to shoot a deer or a turkey, but that's life, that's the food chain. I don't feel bad about feeding mice to my snake.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

You know it's illegal, at least in my country, to feed live mice to snakes... despite the fact that it's what happens in NATURE...
I have a snake myself... an american corn snake.
I will have to check the locals laws concerning hunting in my area, I will look into it, I think pheasant season starts soon.