Just a thought of 9-11 - ...tell me if its wrong

[Veni Vidi Vici]

Since 911. I've seen the government giving money out to the victims familys. 9-11 was tragic. But i think they blew it way out of proportion. People die everyday. The fact is, they gave these victims millions of dollars from what ive seen from TV and stuff. And, they are making these people rich. Just cause a plane hit that building and it was the biggest building ever. I bet if it wasn't a terrorist attack. People would not get anything. But thats just me. What im saying instead of giving money to these people that dont really need it. Why not use it to help the poor, or help the sick or something, help those kids starving in the streets. what about those kids in other countrys starving, we see those commercials they give them rice and what not. i think thats not enough....... Tell me if this is a wrong idea. I think it sounds right. but wait...I'm stupid. but any comments on this topic?

(Edited by Veni Vidi Vici at 2:34 pm on June 5, 2003)

[LOIC]

I agree with you. It's stupid to give money to people who don't need it while other people are starving and are homeless.
Moreover, I suppose that someone who lost a member of his famiy doesn't give a shit about money.
Anyway the 9-11 show us one thing: 3000 americans who die are more important than millions of people who are dying and are suffering from poverty, starvation and disease in the world.
I wonder how many africans equal an american for the governments of rich countries.

(Edited by LOIC at 2:55 pm on June 5, 2003)

[Pete]

More people have died in Afganistan. More people have died in Iraq. More people have died in the Congo. More people have died in Sudan. ect ect ect

[Soul Rebel]

whats more messed up is that the money a family recieves is determined by the job of the victim. So a computer analyist might get like $1 million, while a waiter's family would only get like $50,000. This is obviously discrimination and very hurtful. they are telling one family that they dont deserve as much money because their waitor son was as important as an analyist. They are placing a value on people's lives. Only in this country. Sickening.

[Son of Scargill]

I think there should have been compensation/assistance for families of victims of that particular disaster.SenoraChe makes a good point on the disparities though.But"only in this country"?I think not.The same income system would be used in the UK,only the payout would be a lot less.

24,000 people(avg)died of hunger and preventable diseases on that day.And the day before,and the day after,and every day since then.But there were no cameras,and it isn't dramatic T.V. watching someones life ebb slowly from them.Their families will get nothing.Welcome to the world of corporate fascism.

[Guardia Bolivariano]

In my opinion this hole money for the victims campaign, is a way of saying that american lives have higher value then iraqi lives for instance.

[Veni Vidi Vici]

well, atleast you guys didnt say it was stupid. They weird thing is about this.....My mom and dad agree with it....haha.

[Son of Scargill]

I don't think it is a concious effort to show US lives are more valuable than others.If they could've got away with paying out f**k all they would've.One of the rules of imperialism is that you must at no cost allow your seat of power to be overthrown.If they'd ignored the legitimate victims at home they would not be in power now.
What I thought was more hypocritical was the hundreds of billions of dollars that they doled out to the US aviation industry.A policy which they,and Clinton before them,had fought tooth and nail in the international courts to stop foreign nations doing.Subsidising your transportation systems is a big no,no in neo-liberal terms.But the industry was ailing before 11-9-01,and they used the deaths of these people as a bail out for their buddies in the aviation companys.They're still trying to stop France subsidising their national carrier,but aren't so vociferous nowadays.They know they don't have a leg to stand on after the bail-out they gave US companies.And they still lost ten of thousands of jobs.The attacks on the towers affected business slightly,but not to degree they made out.Over here Virgin immediately laid off 6,000 workers,BMI,1,800,ect.ect.throughout the industry.How could they calculate the effects in 24 hours?They couldn't.They abused the memory of the dead to abuse the lives of the living.
Non american lives ARE worth less politically,because it doesn't matter to the american populace(generally).They are too self-centered(again,generally) to care about foreigners.Why do you think they love their"smart?weapons" or "drones"and high level bombing..But if it was them on the recieving end,the yanquis would get all uppitty.Everyone on this planet feels the same,but the corporations have more to lose if their favourite little military empire becomes unstable.

(Edited by Son of Scargill at 10:58 pm on June 5, 2003)

[Cold Rage]

To be honest, I don't think that the victims' families recieved much of the money raised in their name. Several of the relatives came forward after the whole parade of TV specials and outpouring of emotion and said they hadn't recieved a dime. This is just another example of greed taking advantage of a tragedy.

Only in America! (lots of sarcasim included)

[Sinistra]

i don't understand , the us goverment desides to give money to the families of the victims , what the fuck is rong with that , those ppl were killed because they were americans , so the american goverment has to to take care of the families ... whats wrong with you guys , these families had lost there mothers , fathers , sons and daughters , why shouldn't they get anything .

[Son of Scargill]

sinistra,
A:I think you should READ(and think about) what has been posted before you,and
B:Take notice of everything else that your "lovely"government is doing.(And I mean"everything".)

Then maybe you won't just think in black and white.After all,governments don't.



(Edited by Son of Scargill at 11:48 pm on June 5, 2003)

[LOIC]

i don't understand , the us goverment desides to give money to the families of the victims , what the fuck is rong with that , those ppl were killed because they were americans , so the american goverment has to to take care of the families ... whats wrong with you guys , these families had lost there mothers , fathers , sons and daughters , why shouldn't they get anything .

But the u$ goverment doesn't give money to the families of the iraqis who have been killed by the u$ soldiers.
That's just a pathetic way for the u$ government to try to look like more humane.
Moreover, you don't deserve money because a member of your family died.


(Edited by LOIC at 12:05 am on June 6, 2003)

[Veni Vidi Vici]

Sinistra

Well, what if one of your family memebers was shot in a Drugstore or a WalMart. Would the government give you 10,000 dollars.....dont think so. and plus, other peoples lives are important too. Like those people and kids dying and shaking and starving on the streets.Don't accuse us of not feeling sympathetic. I feel sorry for those people who lost their family members, and its a terrible tragic thing. Its just the fact, the plane hit the building, and those people died,... and it was a terrorist attack and the victims became rich because of that. I think its just crazy to keep giving money to stupid stuff like this. Like all this war stuff. Isn't the war like seventy billion dollars or something like that or seven? But we could be using this money to better other people in different situations.but thats just me


VVV

(Edited by Veni Vidi Vici at 2:17 am on June 6, 2003)


(Edited by Veni Vidi Vici at 2:19 am on June 6, 2003)

[Beccie]

Quote: from SenoraChe on 5:51 pm on June 5, 2003
whats more messed up is that the money a family recieves is determined by the job of the victim. So a computer analyist might get like $1 million, while a waiter's family would only get like $50,000. This is obviously discrimination and very hurtful. they are telling one family that they dont deserve as much money because their waitor son was as important as an analyist. They are placing a value on people's lives. Only in this country. Sickening.


Are you serious? That is fucking disgusting. It openly suggests that certain people have a higher value to society.

I also find it disgusting that Americans spend billions in arms, support corrupt regimes, invade other countries i.e. are responsible for millions of death globally yet they generous enough to compensate for the lives of 3000 people. WHAT A GREAT COUNTRY [/sarcasm]

The government owe a lot more to those families then just money. I have read a number of articles that suggest that the American intelligence knew something about the attacks before they happened. The evidence is interesting and I think plausible. The Americans had plans to invade Afghanistan long before September 11 the terrorist attacks give them the perfect excuse and more importantly it provides them with the support they need for such an invasion. If I find the links I will post them.....


(Edited by Commie01 at 5:54 am on June 6, 2003)

[Zombie]

What I can't seem to figure out is why the government paying the victims in the first place. For what purpose? Is it really cos' they care? Or is it there more to it?

If they'd ignored the legitimate victims at home they would not be in power now.
Fucking brilliant.

Could it be that the gov is actually doing this not only to make good publicity, but to also cover up something? As far as I know, the American gov didn't kill those people, so why should they be compensating their families? Something's fishy, or am I just being paranoid?

[sc4r]

I know exactly what u mean, but I do think that in this case you are being paranoid :)

You are clearly implying that they 'bought off'' the victims families. Now doing this unless those families defintely knew something and were threatening to reveal it would achieve little and if they did do this its a near certainty that not everyone would stay bought.

It was a political gesture which co-incidentally (or maybe not coincidentally) keeps the idea that this was a terrible tragedy; the worst in the worlds history at the forefront of American minds.

Americans in general really do seem to be incredilbly inclined to dwell upon and magnify hugely their own misfortunes while totally ignoring that of others :

A direct example 3500 people died in 9/11 almost exactly the same number of Iraqi civilians (and before that also the same Aghani's) were killed in the attacks. THOSE numbers are literally brushed aside by dismissive comments from americans ('well you cant expect zerop casualties in a war after all, this is just pragmatic') etc etc.

They quite literally dont recognise the connection. Its as if we were talking about two completely different types of death, as though the non amaerican deaths were quite literally just abstract statistics.

No amount of badgering shifts this perception (not really even amongst the more liberal americans).

WHy ? because I dont think they are really concerned with the american deaths either. These deaths are just a proxy for indignation whipped up by their media.

I'll go a bit further and say that I doubt many of us are really connected emotionally to mass death. I think that just perhaps we miss this point and as a consequence perhaps misdirect our attacks. In othr words it really is the principle not the effect that all of us are concerned with and that all of our efforts to try and make Capitalists recant on the basis of the effects of capitalism are misguided. Perhaps we really should be focusing much harder directly on THE PRINCIPLE of inequality. Attack this point directly.

I know this wont be a popular view. But I reckon their is something in it.

(Edited by sc4r at 8:48 am on June 6, 2003)

[kingbee]

Quote: from Sinistra on 11:34 pm on June 5, 2003

these families had lost there mothers , fathers , sons and daughters , why shouldn't they get anything .


so have many people killed by us foreign policy and activity. as my grandad said, its just america getting a taste of their own medicine, after years of imperialism. maybe it was bad, but just because it was western, completely in the media, and on a big scale mean its worse than any other activity that has killed people.

[Al Khabir]

What my comrades here are saying is that over a million families lose a loved one every week from preventable disease, imperialist war, starbation. They should get used to it. People die all the time in the third world because of callous actions by the cpitalist governments and the business monopolies.

[187]

It's not inhumane to put more value on 'your own kind', it's human. Just as most won't break down in tears or think much of some unknown individuals murder, most would be extremely upset if someone close to them died.

It's not a capitalist creation to want to console those close to you more so than anonymous silhouettes.

I hope you can see that there must be some good intentions behind the compensation.

(Edited by 187 at 12:34 am on June 11, 2003)

[IHP]

Certainly there are. If you are talking about shoring up support for this war on 'terrorism.' Keep the people on your side, create and enemy. Done. Imperialist tendencies satisfied. (To an extent that is.)

--IHP

[MarxIsGod]

i don't understand , the us goverment desides to give money to the families of the victims , what the ---- is rong with that , those ppl were killed because they were americans , so the american goverment has to to take care of the families ... whats wrong with you guys , these families had lost there mothers , fathers , sons and daughters , why shouldn't they get anything .

As someone mentioned before, the people getting the most money are the wealthy White families who already have money. The poorer workers who are predominantly (though not exclusively) minorities. None of the mothers whose children have been shot on the street or whose husbands have been mugged receive any money from the government and they are the ones who need it most.

Another thing I find humorous (though its kind of sad)funny is a couple months back, a NYC judge awarded over $100 million to families of the 9-11 attacks who had brought a suit against Iraq claiming that it somehow contributed to or supported the 9-11 terrorist attacks. The evidence was basically circumstantial and the plaintiffs' primary piece of evidence was Colin Powell's speech at the UN which accused Iraq of harboring and sponsoring terrorists. The decision was made it the midst of the war on Iraq after it (not surprisingly) "failed to mount a defense).
What Bush has started doing is taking billions of dollars in frozen Iraqi assets and using them to pay off the plaintiffs in similar lawsuits instead of using this money to rebuild Iraq. The United States is continuing to screw over the entire world and people, especially anyone out there in the United States, need to protest the spread of Imperialism and Capitalism that is infecting and destroying the "Third World". :angry:

[ComradeRiley]

sinistra hasnt replied, I wounder why?

[sc4r]

It's completely surreal I agree. Almost all US conservatives and Right wingers have now adopted the stance that 'mainly we did it to help the Iraqi people' and their very first positive action after reducing the country to rubble and promoting massive civil disorder is to start taking money off them.

Every time I think their abilities at double think and self deception have reached an absolute ultimate peak they confound me by locating a still more stratospheric one.

What would they not swallow if it were in their interests to believe it ?

[Wolfie]

Tell me about it, i nearly killed myself after hearing this fact. Fucking Americans. Lets find anything remotly wrong with them and strike them down with astring of insults which garantee our label as the "looney Left".

IDIOTS. Stop condemning and start acting. BTW you'll notice that im back.

[mentalbunny]

Sorry, I don't have long so I didn't manage to read all the posts.

Many of your theories seem plausible. My thoughts are that maybe the US government considers the 9-11 attacks as aimed at the whole country (which they were) so they, who represent the whole country, should compensate those directly affected so that the blow is shared by all those who pay US taxes. I don't know if that actually is plausible, it's jsut what came into my mind.

I am also sickened that the amount of money the families are given depends on the job. If anything it should be the amount of people they were supporting with their income, and a "flat rate" for family if they were only supporting themselves. I don't know, I don't like thinking about compensation for death, people are worth more than all the money in the world, nothing can replace a human being and having lots of money will not make it easier to get through the grieving process.

[Al Khabir]

Start acting? what are we supposed to do, start stocking up on AK rifles and Uzis for the revolution? Lets face it, I think we will all be long dead before the revolution comes to the west. Im sure we all already do what we can at rallies and by fairtrade and such, but how many peopel do you expect will start fighting the oppressors when the poeple are so doped up to their eyeballs on television that they wont even notice. We must wait until the world has ripened ready for the plucking, when the ordinary people have joined us.