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Janus
27th July 2006, 00:59
Sorry about posting this so late.


Anyways, the same themes are discussed by Lenin in this chapter including monopoly,mergers, and amalgamations. All of this results in a financial oligarchy, one that becomes more and more exclusive.

Feel free to bring up any points you didn't understand or just want to discuss.

Severian
27th July 2006, 12:19
Text of Chapter 3 (Imperialism) (http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/imp-hsc/ch03.htm#v22zz99h-226-GUESS)

If that site's slow for you here's a mirror (http://marxists.anu.edu.au/archive/lenin/works/1916/imp-hsc/ch03.htm#v22zz99h-226-GUESS)

Most of the things Lenin is talking about in this section are not really new to us today. Holding companies, corporate accounting fraud, the "financial oligarchy", the need for only a minority of stock to have a controlling interest, etc.

One example of its expansion since: the "leveraged buy-out." Lenin quotes Hilferding saying "A steadily increasing proportion of capital in industry ceases to belong to the industrialists who employ it. They obtain the use of it only through the medium of the banks which, in relation to them, represent the owners of the capital."

Well, now it's possible to buy a major corporation with borrowed capital. The creditors, then, become a sort of de facto owner, taking the lion's share of the company's profits.

A similar thing happens in "Employee stock ownership plans" - as with supposedly employee-owned United Airlines. The employees bought the stock with borrowed money, of course, so now the airline has to be run to please the banks.

This chapter starts to get into the "export of capital" which has all kinds of political implications - the domination and exploitation of most countries by the richest and most powerful ones.

"Together, these four countries [UK, US, France, Germany] own 479,000 million francs, that is, nearly 80 per cent of the world’s finance capital. In one way or another, nearly the whole of the rest of the world is more or less the debtor to and tributary of these international banker countries, these four “pillars” of world finance capital."

That's certainly expanded greatly since 1917; the whole "Third World Debt" is just one form of the export of capital.

One seeming exception to this: the U.S. has also become a net debtor nation; we could discuss whether and how much that's changed things.

Janus
28th July 2006, 02:32
Net debt as in the national debt?

The US can't be the only one.

I believe it was originally created so that investors would have a stake in the nation. I know Jackson was able fully pay it but that every attempt besides that to do so has resulted in a depression so it looks like it might stay for some time.

Amusing Scrotum
28th July 2006, 04:41
Originally posted by Lenin+--> (Lenin)We now have to describe how, under the general conditions of commodity production and private property, the “business operations” of capitalist monopolies inevitably lead to the domination of a financial oligarchy.[/b]

As far as I can see, Lenin doesn't give a definition of what the "financial oligarchy"....but I presume he means those that possess "finance capital". Anyway, the question of whether the "financial oligarchy" is "dominant" over the other sections of the bourgeois, is, in my opinion, an interesting one....and it sort of ties into something else I've been thinking about recently.

Essentially, after reading a few things, I became aware that the Civil Engineering sector, along with a few other sectors (Defence contractors, PR companies and so on), were the primary backers of the present American Administration. And, to me anyway, that was interesting. Because it posed a certain question, does the whole of the capitalist power have State power the whole of the time?

Now, I'm not well read on the subject, but from what I can tell Structuralist orientated theoretical views assert that the State over time acts in the interests of the bourgeois in general....despite occasionally impinging on the interests of individual capitalists.

So, personally, I'm curious as to whether it could be said that at any given time, only a portion of the bourgeois hold State power....and that they use said power to act in their own factional interests. That would, for instance, help explain the social role of Parties like the Green Party.

If this were the case, then I suspect the "dominance" mentioned by Lenin, would be incorrect. Though, I suppose it could be shown that many Industries are controlled by the "financial oligarchy"....however, that would be a very time consuming activity.


Lenin
....but also allow the people most concerned to escape the consequence of unsuccessful speculation by selling their shares in time when the individual businessman risks his own skin in everything he does....

Vlad, I&#39;d like you to meet Martha. <_<

Severian
28th July 2006, 10:36
Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2006, 05:33 PM
Net debt as in the national debt?
No, it&#39;s more than that. Almost every government has a debt, of course.

It has to do with how much U.S. debt - government and private - is held overseas. And how much overseas debt is held in the U.S. Due to the low savings rate in the U.S., the economy&#39;s starting to run into some problems in this respect.

The U.S. has been a debtor nation for some time - and recently started having "current accounts" problems, which is a further step into trouble.

It has some implications for monetary policy, but it&#39;s nowhere near putting the U.S. in the same category as Brazil or someplace. The debt is a much smaller percentage of GDP, for example.

Armchair Socialist wrote:

Because it posed a certain question, does the whole of the capitalist power have State power the whole of the time?

State power isn&#39;t the same as holding political office, let alone just controlling the White House. But it&#39;s pretty clear that there are different sections of the ruling class which tend to support different parties - partly along lines of industry and region. (You coulda mentioned oil first of all regarding the Bush administration.) They contend to advance their "special interests" over their rivals by supporting different parties or individual politicians.

Many capitalists donate to both parties, of course, but still may give more to one of them.

I don&#39;t see how this contradicts anything in Lenin, though; by this time these are all finance capitalists. The main contenders are among the largest capitalists, aka oligarchs if you like.

Amusing Scrotum
28th July 2006, 18:48
Originally posted by Severian+--> (Severian)State power isn&#39;t the same as holding political office, let alone just controlling the White House.[/b]

I probably should have put it differently, direct State power maybe. But you got the point anyway.


Originally posted by [email protected]
(You coulda mentioned oil first of all regarding the Bush administration.)

I mentioned the Civil Engineering firms....and they&#39;re the ones who make money of the Oil. Halliburton, for instance, has a massive Civil Engineering section, though this section doesn&#39;t have many achievements to its name.


Severian
I don&#39;t see how this contradicts anything in Lenin, though; by this time these are all finance capitalists.

I thought whether or not they were "finance capitalists" was conditional? That is, as far as I can tell, they must have a certain relationship to the finance sector, presumably they&#39;d be a PLC and so on. And, personally, I couldn&#39;t say for sure whether they are or aren&#39;t "finance capitalists"....because I simply don&#39;t know.

RedJacobin
28th July 2006, 22:57
. . . experience shows that it is sufficient to own 40 per cent of the shares of a company in order to direct its affairs,[4] since in practice a certain number of small, scattered shareholders find it impossible to attend general meetings, etc. The “democratisation” of the ownership of shares, from which the bourgeois sophists and opportunist so-called “Social-Democrats” expect (or say that they expect) the “democratisation of capital”, the strengthening of the role and significance of small scale production, etc., is, in fact, one of the ways of increasing the power of the financial oligarchy. Incidentally, this is why, in the more advanced, or in the older and more “experienced” capitalist countries, the law allows the issue of shares of smaller denomination. In Germany, the law does not permit the issue of shares of less than one thousand marks denomination, and the magnates of German finance look with an envious eye at Britain, where the issue of one-pound shares (= 20 marks, about 10 rubles) is permitted Siemens, one of the biggest industrialists and “financial kings” in Germany, told the Reiclistag on June 7, 1900, that “the one-pound share is the basis of British imperialism”.
Good explanation of why the stock market doesn&#39;t "democratize" the capitalist economy. As more people own shares, the financial oligarchy is able exercise control over the economy with less money.

RedJacobin
28th July 2006, 23:10
Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2006, 09:20 AM
One seeming exception to this: the U.S. has also become a net debtor nation; we could discuss whether and how much that&#39;s changed things.
I don&#39;t understand the whole concept of "dollar hegemony" too well, but I think it&#39;s related to the fact that the US is a debtor nation?

Janus
29th July 2006, 09:28
I don&#39;t understand the whole concept of "dollar hegemony" too well, but I think it&#39;s related to the fact that the US is a debtor nation?
Dollar hegemony is simply the dominance of the US dollar in the international financial and currency trade due to socio-political factors.

I believe it was originally coined by Henry Liu


Dollar hegemony (http://www.atimes.com/global-econ/DD11Dj01.html)

Janus
29th July 2006, 10:37
I mentioned the Civil Engineering firms....and they&#39;re the ones who make money of the Oil
Civil engineering is basically dominated by the state and therefore a part of it.


And, personally, I couldn&#39;t say for sure whether they are or aren&#39;t "finance capitalists"....because I simply don&#39;t know.
They are businesses so they do trade stock,etc. and therefore are connected to the finance sector. As businesses they can make and usually need to make deals with foreign nations as well.

Severian
31st July 2006, 05:37
Originally posted by fats+Jul 28 2006, 02:11 PM--> (fats @ Jul 28 2006, 02:11 PM)
[email protected] 27 2006, 09:20 AM
One seeming exception to this: the U.S. has also become a net debtor nation; we could discuss whether and how much that&#39;s changed things.
I don&#39;t understand the whole concept of "dollar hegemony" too well, but I think it&#39;s related to the fact that the US is a debtor nation? [/b]
Debt, the trade deficit, and now the current account deficit all relate to the value of the dollar compared to other currencies, anyway.

The recent development on this is the Fed allowing the dollar to drop somewhat, forced by the continuing size of the trade deficit and the beginning of a current account deficit. This makes it easier to reduce the trade deficit, but harder to attract enough investment to compensate for the government deficit and the low savings rate.

Janus
2nd August 2006, 09:24
Of course, dollar hegemony also has to do with the fact that OPEC oil is only bought with dollars which is a major backup for the almighty dollar.

Janus
2nd August 2006, 09:24
Moving this to the Study Groups subforum so it can be archived there.

Die Neue Zeit
2nd May 2007, 03:51
Originally posted by [email protected] 28, 2006 09:57 pm

. . . experience shows that it is sufficient to own 40 per cent of the shares of a company in order to direct its affairs,[4] since in practice a certain number of small, scattered shareholders find it impossible to attend general meetings, etc. The “democratisation” of the ownership of shares, from which the bourgeois sophists and opportunist so-called “Social-Democrats” expect (or say that they expect) the “democratisation of capital”, the strengthening of the role and significance of small scale production, etc., is, in fact, one of the ways of increasing the power of the financial oligarchy. Incidentally, this is why, in the more advanced, or in the older and more “experienced” capitalist countries, the law allows the issue of shares of smaller denomination. In Germany, the law does not permit the issue of shares of less than one thousand marks denomination, and the magnates of German finance look with an envious eye at Britain, where the issue of one-pound shares (= 20 marks, about 10 rubles) is permitted Siemens, one of the biggest industrialists and “financial kings” in Germany, told the Reiclistag on June 7, 1900, that “the one-pound share is the basis of British imperialism”.
Good explanation of why the stock market doesn&#39;t "democratize" the capitalist economy. As more people own shares, the financial oligarchy is able exercise control over the economy with less money.
More important than the quote you pointed out - at least from an international perspective - is the quote right above it, on the "holding system" (and I&#39;ve got a thread on this in the Theory forum as a transitional proposal):


Paramount importance attaches to the “holding system”, already briefly referred to above. The German economist, Heymann, probably the first to call attention to this matter, describes the essence of it in this way:

“The head of the concern controls the principal company (literally: the “mother company”); the latter reigns over the subsidiary companies (“daughter companies”) which in their turn control still other subsidiaries (“grandchild companies”), etc. In this way, it is possible with a comparatively small capital to dominate immense spheres of production. Indeed, if holding 50 per cent of the capital is always sufficient to control a company, the head of the concern needs only one million to control eight million in the second subsidiaries. And if this ‘interlocking’ is extended, it is possible with one million to control sixteen million, thirty-two million, etc.”

The "beauty" of leverage, indeed. Anyhow:


But the “holding system” not only serves enormously to increase the power of the monopolists; it also enables them to resort with impunity to all sorts of shady and dirty tricks to cheat the public, because formally the directors of the “mother company” are not legally responsible for the “daughter company”, which is supposed to be “independent”, and through the medium of which they can “pull off” anything.

Enron, anybody? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enron#Insider_trading) :rolleyes:


Here is an example taken from the German review, Die Bank, for May 1914:

“The Spring Steel Company of Kassel was regarded some years ago as being one of the most profitable enterprises in Germany. Through bad management its dividends fell from 15 per cent to nil. It appears that the Board, without consulting the shareholders, had loaned six million marks to one of its ‘daughter companies’, the Hassia Company, which had a nominal capital of only some hundreds of thousands of marks. This commitment, amounting to nearly treble the capital of the ‘mother company’, was never mentioned in its balance-sheets. This omission was quite legal and could be hushed up for two whole years because it did not violate any point of company law. The chairman of the Supervisory Board, who as the responsible head had signed the false balance-sheets, was, and still is, the president of the Kassel Chamber of Commerce. The shareholders only heard of the loan to the Hassia Company long afterwards, when it had been proved to be a mistake”... (the writer should put this word in inverted commas) ... “and when Spring Steel shares dropped nearly 100 per cent, because those in the know were getting rid of them....

Insider trading, anybody? More:


“This typical example of balance-sheet jugglery, quite common in joint-stock companies, explains why their Boards of Directors are willing to undertake risky transactions with a far lighter heart than individual businessmen. Modern methods of drawing up balance-sheets not only make it possible to conceal doubtful undertakings from the ordinary shareholder, but also allow the people most concerned to escape the consequence of unsuccessful speculation by selling their shares in time when the individual businessman risks his own skin in everything he does....

“The balance-sheets of many joint-stock companies put us in mind of the palimpsests of the Middle Ages from which the visible inscription had first to be erased in order to discover beneath it another inscription giving the real meaning of the document. [Palimpsests are parchment documents from which the original inscription has been erased and another inscription imposed.]

“The simplest and, therefore, most common procedure for making balance-sheets indecipherable is to divide a single business into several parts by setting up ‘daughter companies’—or by annexing them. The advantages of this system for various purposes—legal and illegal—are so evident that big companies which do not employ it are quite the exception.”

As an example of a huge monopolist company that extensively employs this system, the author quotes the famous General Electric Company (the A.E.G., to which I shall refer again later on). In 1912, it was calculated that this company held shares in 175 to 200 other companies, dominating them, of course, and thus controlling a total capital of about 1,500 million marks.

None of the rules of control, the publication of balance-sheets, the drawing up of balance-sheets according to a definite form, the public auditing of accounts, etc., the things about which well-intentioned professors and officials—that is, those imbued with the good intention of defending and prettyfying capitalism—discourse to the public, are of any avail; for private property is sacred, and no one can be prohibited from buying, selling, exchanging or hypothecating shares, etc.



As a side note, financial auditing is shifting more towards a balance-sheet-based focus from an income-statement-based one. Look for less Enrons and WorldComs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MCI_WorldCom#Accounting_scandals) (capitalization of capital assets vs. expensing) and more balance-sheet scandals.