Chances in Germany

[Comrade Mathew]

Hi all,

I am german obviously and I thought about some thing:

Now in Germany the social democrats do very bad for the economy and nearly everything in germany (for more information just ask me)

Also they move more and more politicly right and if this process keeps on its soon no longer "the worker party"
The leftist are not well organised right now thats the main problem....
so having no choise the people vote more right (what does not make the situation better)
Do you think, if we (the leftist) would argue that we are the only party that works for the workers, the social democrats and the leftist together would be on our side?

Means i want to try if all partys that move right do bad for germany could we unite all from "a bit social" to "extreme leftist"?

I think Germany has potential but i dont know if the germans are fit enough to fight (many are lazy in political ways.... in my city vote only about 50%)

Hope for discusion

[Dirty Commie]

50% voter turn out! In amerikkka we get about 25%.

[Comrade Mathew]

oh damn thats worse... but thats not the main idea...
i think no one of you is from germany but I just started to study more and maybe some of you know more about such a situation

[redstarshining]

Of course the political lanscape in Germany is going to make a big shift to the right, simply because the social market economy is failing and vanishing for good. People can no longer be deceived by the ruling parties and their weak economic compromises. When the next depression hits the country they will also realize that a neoliberal/conservative government is not an option for us working people either. What will happen then is impossible to predict imo. People will become more radical, so when the time comes we have to be well prepared.

As for the social democrats, forget about them. The Jusos still have some potential maybe.
The 'purity' of the party is just as important as unity among the left. One thing we certainly dont need is another power-hungry ex-communist elite ( Schilly, Fischer etc. ). Instead I hope that the hundreds of tiny communist parties will finally cooperate.

agitate, educate and organize :)

[redstarshining]

by the way, I'm from Germany as you can easily tell by my spelling and grammar. Malte ( the founder ) is too, by the way.

[Sinistra]

it's too bad that the german economy is colapsing , i realy liked that economy , not too left anfd yet not right .

by the way i am also some kind of german :).

[Dirty Commie]

Malte is in Germany

[Kapitan Andrey]

Malte is in Germany

I knew it lon time ago.


About Germany:

!?!? Why do you need it!?!?
You leave well/reach...why do you need poor communism!?

[Marina]

Germany is having serious economic problems. And I've heard that East Germany still hasn't recovered fully from its domination.

[redstarshining]

Quote: from Kapitan Andrey on 3:37 am on June 5, 2003
Malte is in Germany

I knew it lon time ago.


About Germany:

!?!? Why do you need it!?!?
You leave well/reach...why do you need poor communism!?



For these reasons:

1.) Just like any capitalist country in the world we have our own exploited proletariat

2.) two thirds of our production is located in the third and fourth world. There is nothing I can think of which is not produced under inhuman conditions.

3.)When the soviet union still existed the ruling class was forced to make _some_ compromises ( such as to offer the people a good public healthcare system, and fairly good social security etc. ).
Don't get me wrong, this 'social market economy' was anti social from the beginning, but now that this country lacks the competition of a SU and a GDR the ruling class can do whatever they want.

4.) The economy is failing. I don't think a mixed economy can/will ever work.

5.) This country, like most capitalist countries, is an antisocial shithole. Immigration laws, for example, are very, very racist and injust. You wouldn't believe how they treat my eastern european friends.

Capitalism is capitalism, and therefore my natural enemy, whether it's exploitation made in USA or exploitation made in Europe doesn't make a difference to me.

(Edited by redstarshining at 8:18 am on June 5, 2003)

[Sinistra]

the last thing germany needs is communism , it should go back to it's old kind of socialist economy . but not communism . look hoe eastern germany looks like , do you want all of germany to like that???

[Comrade Mathew]

Quote: from Sinistra on 1:43 pm on June 5, 2003

the last thing germany needs is communism , it should go back to it's old kind of socialist economy . but not communism . look hoe eastern germany looks like , do you want all of germany to like that???

how east germany looks like has nothing to do with communism... just with stalins dictatorship

[Comrade Mathew]

Quote: from Kapitan Andrey on 2:37 am on June 5, 2003
Malte is in Germany

I knew it lon time ago.


About Germany:

!?!? Why do you need it!?!?
You leave well/reach...why do you need poor communism!?


Germany is the centre of europe if it gets communist a revolution could happen in other european countries...

btw ever lenin saw the importans of germany he wanted a soviet germany together with the soviet union as an unstoppable union

[Sinistra]

he had to find a way to thank germany.

[Kapitan Andrey]

I agree with Sinistra!

Germany is the centre of europe if it gets communist a revolution could happen in other european countries...

Damn it! Forget about communist revolution in europe!!! It is utopia!!! No one will support you! Nobody needs revolution in Germany or France, ect.!!!

[Comrade Mathew]

Ignorant you europe is an important part in the world revolution it is the region with most economic strengh in the world!!!!

[Iepilei]

A revolution in Europe will be the stage-setter for the fall of the United States. However, such actions happening at this current time are too ideal to even imagine.

A second revolution in Russia, coupled with strong revolutionary movements in India and other parts of Asia will be where it all starts. Hopefully that is.

[Dirty Commie]

The next revolution will either be Asian/African/South America, because the united states would intervene in an instant if it happened in Europe or north america. And I think South America is going to be next, simply because they have the best history of revolt, and there are several large groups fighting at the moment.

[Comrade Mathew]

Quote: from Dirty Commie on 9:56 pm on June 6, 2003
The next revolution will either be Asian/African/South America, because the united states would intervene in an instant if it happened in Europe or north america. And I think South America is going to be next, simply because they have the best history of revolt, and there are several large groups fighting at the moment.

Do you think the americans would not try to stop one in these countries??? They did so many times why shouldnt they do it again?
what we need is a revolution with an army....
i agree that in europe a revolution will not happen the next few days but here were also many revolutions (french, german, british)

[FAB]

Quote: from Comrade Mathew on 3:07 pm on June 5, 2003

Quote: from Sinistra on 1:43 pm on June 5, 2003

the last thing germany needs is communism , it should go back to it's old kind of socialist economy . but not communism . look hoe eastern germany looks like , do you want all of germany to like that???

how east germany looks like has nothing to do with communism... just with stalins dictatorship


The GermanDemokraticRepublic(GDR) wasn't "stalinist". The GDR-Leaders banned Stalins ideas after his dead and that was the beginning of the end of the GDR

[redstarshining]

After his death Stalin was also "outlawed" in the USSR and pretty much everywhere, Nikita Khrushchev even ordered to cut out scenes with him in documentary movies.
During his lifetime however, the GDR was of course under the influence of him. After all, one could rightfully call him the "founding father" of the GDR.

Anyway, despite of all criticism I think it's very sad that the GDR was simply annexed by the western empire. In 1989 the situation was perfect for making real socialist reforms, as the country certainly had potential. After 40 years of semi-socialist reality and education many people got used to a very different way of life, which is imo the prerequisite for true socialist reforms. Too sad that all that has been lost.

EDIT: I have to correct myself, much has been lost but not EVERYTHING. There are still quite a lot of people from east Germany who have to suffer terribly under the big east-west inequality of income, and who have lost faith in the capitalist religion ( i.e. unlimited economical growth, the freer the market the freer the people etc. etc. ). Many of the them were better off in the GDR then in our little social market wonderland.

(Edited by redstarshining at 10:00 pm on June 11, 2003)

[Comrade Mathew]

Quote: from Molotow on 7:39 pm on June 11, 2003

Quote: from Comrade Mathew on 3:07 pm on June 5, 2003

Quote: from Sinistra on 1:43 pm on June 5, 2003

the last thing germany needs is communism , it should go back to it's old kind of socialist economy . but not communism . look hoe eastern germany looks like , do you want all of germany to like that???

how east germany looks like has nothing to do with communism... just with stalins dictatorship


The GermanDemokraticRepublic(GDR) wasn't "stalinist". The GDR-Leaders banned Stalins ideas after his dead and that was the beginning of the end of the GDR


It was not stalinist but stalin still had controll over it.. he even shot down a workers rebelion there so thats the proof he had very much influence

[Cassius Clay]

Stalin didn't 'shoot down' any workers rebbellion. First of all Stalin had been dead for months and the protests were sparked by a 10% rise in the price of goods, namely food. Not to mention 'Stalinists' like Bertolt Brecht sided with the workers.

[malachi151]

Just as leading up to WWII, Germany will once again be the key to the future of the global economy IMO. Germany will once again lead in the battle between socilaism and capitalism.

The problem is with people fed up with the "leftist" policy of Germany, but the leftist policy of Germany is not Marxist, yet Marxist policy suffers the blackeye of all leftist policy.

[Comrade Mathew]

Quote: from Cassius Clay on 1:22 pm on June 17, 2003
Stalin didn't 'shoot down' any workers rebbellion. First of all Stalin had been dead for months and the protests were sparked by a 10% rise in the price of goods, namely food. Not to mention 'Stalinists' like Bertolt Brecht sided with the workers.




If famlily members of you get shoot by russian troops under stalins command you would't say that


(Edited by Comrade Mathew at 8:33 pm on June 17, 2003)

[Cassius Clay]

Comrade Mathew let me just get this clear, Stalin having been dead for months is responsible for deaths in Germany, which incidently had it's own government. Not to mention that Stalin was GS of the CPSU not a Army General, he couldn't give any 'command' to shoot pacific people.

So you had family members who were 'shot'. I'm sorry to hear that and I don't condone it, but I'm just going to point out the obvious by saying Stalin was and had been dead for a long time.

[Comrade Mathew]

ah so i missunderstood i am not very familiar with the soviet history so i get dates always wrong but it was a soviet leadership

[oki]

Quote: from Comrade Mathew on 9:27 pm on June 3, 2003
Hi all,

I am german obviously and I thought about some thing:

Now in Germany the social democrats do very bad for the economy and nearly everything in germany (for more information just ask me)

Also they move more and more politicly right and if this process keeps on its soon no longer "the worker party"
The leftist are not well organised right now thats the main problem....
so having no choise the people vote more right (what does not make the situation better)
Do you think, if we (the leftist) would argue that we are the only party that works for the workers, the social democrats and the leftist together would be on our side?

Means i want to try if all partys that move right do bad for germany could we unite all from "a bit social" to "extreme leftist"?

I think Germany has potential but i dont know if the germans are fit enough to fight (many are lazy in political ways.... in my city vote only about 50%)

Hope for discusion
hrere in holland we have a bit similair situation,like in the rest of europe things are shifing to the right more and more.labourpartys are posisioning themselves in the middle and loose support of leftists.we have the sp that is taking over the votes partly. now we have a very rightist gouv.,just like you will have next I'm sure.led by the christians,who allso throw away their ideals for votes.its'a tiem of political shifting,new populist partys will do good now.we saw that with pim fortuyn.poeple want new politics,that don't bullshit them,that do something about the problems,that break open taboos about immigration and religon.but no way they are ready for a revolution.everybody here has food.the middle class rules all,all partys want to win the middleclass for them,and what the middleclass votes rules.that's the real problem that needs to be solved by revolutionairies.

[oki]

nad east germany wasn't communist at all.I dare say systems like that were simply facist.noone hasd rights and everybody's actions were controlled.how is that an improvement?

[Comrade Mathew]

it was socialist but the government was bad... i just remember the 17th of june 53.....
it was more stalinism than socialism i think...

(Edited by Comrade Mathew at 2:49 pm on June 18, 2003)