So What Is It That You Guys Believe Again?

[Slippy]

Ok, I know most of the people who could be considered "revolutionary lefties" are prochoice and anti-religious, but what else? I'm kind of curious to know... This is my first post and I am just interest to see what the "left" position entails! Thanks,
Slippy

[More Fire for the People]

First and foremost — the political rule of the working class. I would say this entails revolution, arming of the working class, abolition of the police and standing army, and socialization of the means of production.

[Slippy]

I guess that sonds like it would be fun! Until it actually happened... I think that the people that want that the most aren't really ready for it at this point! Plus cops are cool! :)

[Eleutherios]

A free society has no need for cops. The stopping of violent crime could be handled by decentralized, non-hierarchical voluntary militias who are subject to the decisions of the populace.

[General Patton]

A free society has no need for cops. The stopping of violent crime could be handled by decentralized, non-hierarchical voluntary militias who are subject to the decisions of the populace.

Yeah, mobs work miracles.

[The Sloth]

Originally posted by General [email protected] 25 2006, 03:03 AM
Yeah, mobs work miracles.
simply because you can't imagine yourself behaving rationally at a party, in a bar, or on the subway, doesn't justify your assumption that we share your particular mental handicap, or your bloodthirsty aggression.

keep your projections to (or, rather, on) yourself.

[General Patton]

I was being sarcastic d*ckwad.

[The Sloth]

Originally posted by General [email protected] 25 2006, 03:13 AM
I was being sarcastic d*ckwad.
hence, my response.

in the future, please re-read posts incomprehensible to you.

thanks.

[Eleutherios]

Originally posted by General [email protected] 25 2006, 03:03 AM

A free society has no need for cops. The stopping of violent crime could be handled by decentralized, non-hierarchical voluntary militias who are subject to the decisions of the populace.

Yeah, mobs work miracles.
Yeah, because everybody knows nobody can look after their own neighborhoods and cities. I mean, we have to be taking orders from superiors and enforcing silly rules that we don't agree with if we want to have "justice" and "order". I mean, it just makes so much sense that the solution to violent crime should be a bunch of thugs walking around with guns looking for pot dealers and prostitutes.

[violencia.Proletariat]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24 2006, 09:37 PM
Plus cops are cool!
:o

[B.E. Jones]

The Militias you refer to as "Mobs" were the same people who won your REVOLUTIONARY war.

[General Patton]

The Militias you refer to as "Mobs" were the same people who won your REVOLUTIONARY war.

I wouldn't expect you to know this, but since that time, Congress enacted what is known as the Posse Comitatis Act (1878). It was passed to prevent federal troops from overseeing and regulating elections held in the south during reconstruction. This law prohibits the military and national guard from acting in a law enforcement capacity, except in very narrowly defined situations. The national guard is the modern day equivalent of the militias that you are referring to when you speak of the Revolutionary War. One benefit of this law is to prevent military police states of the variety that exist in countries following the principles (or lack of) extolled by the lame-brained communists that you see on this website. Notabley, the Posse Comitatus Act has been weakened by the Patriot Act establishing the Department of Homeland Security. This is something that people should pay attention to, because the arguments for the act are very logical and make sense to maintain a democracy. When you start merging them you have a tendency to develop cadre parties and authoritarian rule.

Furthermore, some states (which haven't repealed them by state constitutional amendments) still have what is known as the ability of the county sheriff to enact common law posse comitatus. That means that in a time of need he can compell anyone over the age of 15 to assist him in his duties to enforce laws necessary to maintain law and order. This is the reason why you hear the word posse thrown around when you are watching old western movies. Generally, these are mobs who impose a sort of herd justice that is devoid of the type of careful deliberation necessary to ensure fair trials and establish guilt by way of proof beyond a reasonable doubt. Many people have been wrongfully accused and murdered by this sort of mob rule.

I thought liberals were anti death penalty. Perhaps you are only against the death penalty so long as it is left to the rational merits of a jury trial. Surely, you would love the ability to run around like a bunch of cannibals killing anyone who disagrees with your idiotic ideology. I, for one, am glad that we have the hierarchy of various federal, state, and municipal codes, police networks, and judicial systems to handle the case load without the real need for the type of mob justice that you condone. I guess that's because I am civilized and appreciate the civil society in which I live. You, on the other hand, would apparently like to overthrow the United States government. Tell me; what's wrong with the current system?

Title 18 U.S.C Section 1385 (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00001385----000-.html)

[B.E. Jones]

First off we're not liberals.

The answer to your question at the end of you're post is answered in about 2,000 other threads and I would rather not add to the piles of term papers written by the members of this forum in order to answer your question, figuring just like all the others it would most likely go unread and the same question would soon be possed in another thread with the same results... Rince/Repeat.

[General Patton]

Nice excuse for evading the question. If you had nothing to say, why did you chime in?

[violencia.Proletariat]

Originally posted by General [email protected] 24 2006, 11:03 PM

A free society has no need for cops. The stopping of violent crime could be handled by decentralized, non-hierarchical voluntary militias who are subject to the decisions of the populace.

Yeah, mobs work miracles.
Then the army is a mob? Theoretically your army answers to the people (through the government which theoretically represents them). Well a workers militia is made up of "the people" of each community. It is responsible to the community through assemblies. The only difference being is that the milita is answerable to the people while your army kills for rich people.

[More Fire for the People]

I think as an added measure people's militias should be based on rotating duty so that no one is on 'active' militia duty long enough to acquire a police like status.

[violencia.Proletariat]

Originally posted by Hopscotch [email protected] 25 2006, 12:06 PM
I think as an added measure people's militias should be based on rotating duty so that no one is on 'active' militia duty long enough to acquire a police like status.
The milita is not and will not be a police force. Its main purpose is during and immediately after the revolution. It is to protect the working class from the bourgeois enemy and armed reistance.

After armed reactionaries are taken care of any "policing" necessary would be done through a community system of unarmed members. However this is rather unecessary as there will be little need for it.

[General Patton]

After armed reactionaries are taken care of

I would like for you to come take care of me, personally. I'd love to see you try. If there is one thing we have established it is the intellectual inferiority of left wingers. How is it that you plan to out smart me on the battle field? I can guarantee that I am more resourceful, more violent, and more cunning when it comes to warfare. Bring it on Bolshevik! I am waiting.

[violencia.Proletariat]

there is one thing we have established it is the intellectual inferiority of left wingers.

Figure this one out then oh holy one, how do you expect to support a resistance movement with no resources and very few members and no operating territory?


How is it that you plan to out smart me on the battle field?

Battle field? If your so "violent" that you'll attack people you think are "leftists", in theory you'd be taken to the firing squad come time of revolution. No battle field involved.


I can guarantee that I am more resourceful, more violent, and more cunning when it comes to warfare.

Bullets penetrate egos.


Bring it on Bolshevik!

:lol: Go back to the 1920's moron, the bolsheviks are long gone.

[KC]

EDIT

[The Sloth]

Originally posted by General [email protected] 26 2006, 04:12 AM
If there is one thing we have established it is the intellectual inferiority of left wingers.
right, which is why you've stopped entertaining me ?

you make a terrible clown.. clowns, by definition, offer supreme amusement. i suggest you be good, shut your mouth, and get back into your role. that way, we'd both be happy; i, as the nonchalant observor, and you, the natural imitator and dim-wit. fair? yes, indeed, very fair. moving on!

i think you ended our game of wits quite prematurely.. i might even say you surrendered, general.

if you disagree with my sentiments, then please, by all means, check some of your threads and/or posts i've replied to, yet heard not a peep from your shabby mind.

and, really, i would much rather stop being nasty to you.. i treat all debaters here fairly, until they become malicious and presumptuous without reason. don't think that i won't keep calling you on your bullshit here.. you are not at all the divine repository of wisdom you either claim or fancy yourself to be. i'll continue to drive this very obvious point until you get it.

i hope you understand.

ciao!

[elmo sez]

We are anti property - that is we believe in the public ownership of all factories , farms , houses , everything . However this doesnt mean personal possesions like your necklace or shoes - theyre yours.

We believe in the eventual establishment of a gift economy

We beliene in the establishment of true democracy with grassroots participation . where the people dictacte to the government , not the government dictating to the people .

We believe in a society where everyone has access to food water shelter health education , all the necessities .

We believe in a society where "work" does not dominate our lives .

IF you would like me to explain any of these in greater detail slippy id be glad to .....................i think i over did it with the we believe

[General Patton]

We are anti property - that is we believe in the public ownership of all factories , farms , houses , everything .

Have you been in a public bathroom before? Rest areas are the perfect example of what happens to anything that becomes public. People will piss and shit all over the place, because they don't own it. Utah's state run liquor stores are a perfect example of what happens when anything is state run. Prices go up, inventories go stale, and you have to stand in line to talk to some dickless bureaucrat in order to get what you want. No thanks. If you want communism, why don't you immigrate to The People's Republic of China. That way, you don't piss and sh*t all over my country.

[Mujer Libre]

Originally posted by General [email protected] 27 2006, 12:43 AM

We are anti property - that is we believe in the public ownership of all factories , farms , houses , everything .

Have you been in a public bathroom before? Rest areas are the perfect example of what happens to anything that becomes public. People will piss and shit all over the place, because they don't own it. Utah's state run liquor stores are a perfect example of what happens when anything is state run. Prices go up, inventories go stale, and you have to stand in line to talk to some dickless bureaucrat in order to get what you want. No thanks. If you want communism, why don't you immigrate to The People's Republic of China. That way, you don't piss and sh*t all over my country.
a) public toilets and other facilities around here tend to be pretty clean.
b) when public things get dirty is when people feel they have no responsibility to look after them, no stake in them. This is because 'public' ownership at the present time actually means state ownership. I think it's reasonable to believe that if people themselves felt that they had a real stake in everything around them, they were responsible and free to enjoy t, that they would take care of it.

[RaiseYourVoice]

For the public bathrooms... if they are really so bad, than i guess the U.S. isnt so great when it comes down to that. in many bigger german cities we have high-tech self cleaning public bathrooms.