Red Brigade

[YA BASTA VIVA]

Im italian and i am curious was the red brigade bad or good do i have pride in the ROSSIO BRIGADA or were thay as bad as neo-stalinists

[Marion]

Well, I'd guess whether you'd have pride in them depends on where you're coming from.

Personally, to sum things up fairly quickly, I don't have a lot of time for them as they ended up subsituting themselves for the working class (with all the dangers that come from that as a result).

There's a English language book called Seeds Beneath The Snow you can get which is very good at showing how the Red Brigades came about and developed in their early years. It certainly helps show how they moved from actions that were widely applauded by fairly large sections of the working class (e.g. kidnapping and putting on "proletariat trial" for a day or so particularly oppressive bosses at large factories) to their later assassinations etc.

[bcbm]

The Italian is Brigate Rosse...

A good (and sympathetic) book on the BR is "Strike One to Educate One Hundred," available from AK Press. I'm sure there are many more in Italian.

In any case, I think they did many positive things and represented something much different from other European terror-groups of the era, in that they were primarily composed of working-class comrades, not students, intellectuals or petit-bourgeois like, say, the RAF. Their earliest stages were probably their best, as they operated primarily by agitating near Fiat factories and gained a lot of support that way. As they moved into knee-cappings, maimings and what have you, a lot of the actions were carried out by people familiar with the local struggle and the individuals receiving justice. Their move into more spectacular violence with the kidnappings of public figures, while certainly not a bad thing, was ultimately what proved to be the biggest blow to the group.

Like all armed parties, however, they suffered from some shortcomings. One of the major problems, I think, was the view of BR as a sort of "savior" to the proletariat, intent on replacing the need for autonomous action through their armed actions. This reduces all of those outside the party to spectators, which ultimately is not a liberating experience. Bonanno and some other Italian anarchist comrades of the era have written nice critiques on the subject, so I'll just link to their much more eloquent and researched statements on it:

http://www.geocities.com/kk_abacus/ioaa/a_joy.html
http://www.geocities.com/kk_abacus/UNCON.HTM
http://www.geocities.com/kk_abacus/STRUGGLE.HTM

[Marion]

Cheers Black Banner - the book you mention is the one I was referring to, but I got the publisher and the title muddled up (stupid or what?). Very good post - will check out your links when I've time tomorrow as am interested to read them. Personally, I found some of the actions that other sections of the extra-parliamentary left were doing to be a bit more worthy of praise than some stuff the Red Brigades were doing in their later phase.

Another quite interesting book is "Dear Comrades", a selction of letters written to Lotta Continua, which gives a really good perspective of the viewpoint of many young Italians who are left wing and feel caught between doing nothing and supporting the Red Brigades (neither of which they want to do).

[bcbm]

Personally, I found some of the actions that other sections of the extra-parliamentary left were doing to be a bit more worthy of praise than some stuff the Red Brigades were doing in their later phase.

One of the most inspiring books I ever read was a book called "Armed Struggle in Italy 1977-78," also available through AK Press. It is basically a chronology of armed actions by the extra-parliamentary left during the Anni di piombo, divided roughly by the issue warranting the action. A very quick and interesting read. The BR claimed something like 500 actions during their run (maybe just during this period, I don't recall), while the rest of the left claimed about 3000, although I'd suspect that includes some of the other armed parties like the Nuclei Armati Proletari, et al. Still, the working and other dispossesed classes in Italy were very active during that period (and the years leading up to it) and represented an almost total break from the traditional left, with some unions and the PCI being just as likely targets as the right opposition and the fascists. Really interesting stuff. Once I get paid this week I'm hoping to get the book "Storming Heaven" which traces Italian autonomism from the 60's and into the 70's, as well as a new one from AK which I forget the name of that does the same for all of Europe.

Another book I would reccomend that may or may not deal with the Red Brigades (the author is vague) is "Memoirs of an Italian Terrorist" by Giorgio. Its an account from the inside of the underground that is very interesting, and offers its own views on the failings of the armed party (not entirely intentional, I suspect, but its pretty easy to see the failings from his account).

[YA BASTA VIVA]

GRAZI COMRAD I am definitly picking up thoes books
Ciao

[Marion]

Yeah, "Armed Struggle in Italy 1977-78" is a good read but would have been nice to have had a bit more of the commentary in addition to the chronology. Storming Heaven is really good, but be warned that it is pretty technical and not the easiest read - however, if you want to know about the development of autonomist thought it's absolutely indispensable. One of the best things about it is it helps you understand where someone like Negri comes from, while explaining the broad spectrum of views in autonomist Marxism.

One that's quite good from a mainstream point of view is called something like "Revolutionary Mystique and Terrorism in Contemporary Italy". It's not all that sympathetic and possibly not all that accurate, but is quite good if you read it critically as it gives a basic oversight into what's happened.

Black Banner - what have you heard about the new book coming out on European autonomism? I read something briefly about it the other week and it sounded very interesting. Is it out now?

[bcbm]

Yeah, "Armed Struggle in Italy 1977-78" is a good read but would have been nice to have had a bit more of the commentary in addition to the chronology.

Agreed. There was some commentary in the intro and in the back of the book, explaining a bit of background and providing some documents from the time, but a section dedicated to explain what was going on in Italy and why in some detail would've been good.


One that's quite good from a mainstream point of view is called something like "Revolutionary Mystique and Terrorism in Contemporary Italy". It's not all that sympathetic and possibly not all that accurate, but is quite good if you read it critically as it gives a basic oversight into what's happened.

Nice, I'll have to see if I can pick that up from the local library. I found a book called "A Time of Terror" which has a nice rundown of the situation, among some other interesting things about the rest of the world, and also had a really cool picture of the Italian autonomi on the cover (and that I used as an icon for awhile).


Black Banner - what have you heard about the new book coming out on European autonomism? I read something briefly about it the other week and it sounded very interesting. Is it out now?

Its called "The Subversion of Politics" and comes out at the end of July. Here is the AK Press page:
http://www.akpress.org/2006/items/subversionpoliticsakpress

Also, there's a nice sale on "Memoirs of an Italian Terrorist" here:
http://www.bookcloseouts.com/default.asp?R=0786711345B

[Marion]

Thanks very much for the links - will defo try and pick up the books you've mentioned.

No need to wait for the Katsfiacis book to come out - just noticed it's a republication and have by chance found the chapters in pdf format at: http://slash.autonomedia.org/article.pl?sid=03/02/16/2223203

Do you have any more details for "A time of terror" as it isn't immediately easy to track down due to the number of crap looking detective novels with the same title?

The "Revolutionary Mystique" book is quite good as it goes into a fair bit of detail on Negri and also his alleged role in any armed violence. If I remember right (don't have the book to hand at the moment) it pretty much comes up with the argument that he's somewhat responsible as the intellectual author of the violence. As I said, the book's relatively conservative but, given the lack of decent English language stuff on Italy in the 70's, definitely worth getting.

Anyway, let me know if you come up with any more thoughts or what you think of any new stuff you read...

[bcbm]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24 2006, 04:00 AM
No need to wait for the Katsfiacis book to come out - just noticed it's a republication and have by chance found the chapters in pdf format at: http://slash.autonomedia.org/article.pl?sid=03/02/16/2223203
Ah, good find! I'll probably end up getting it anyway, though, I hate reading really long things on the internet. Plus I get a phat discount on AK stuff. ;-)


Do you have any more details for "A time of terror" as it isn't immediately easy to track down due to the number of crap looking detective novels with the same title?

Ah, sure. Its "A Time of Terror: How Democratic Societies Respond to Revolutionary Violence" by J. Bowyer Bell. It has a 25 page section on Italy, as well as a section on Ireland and a write-up of some Croatian terrorists that is interesting.


Anyway, let me know if you come up with any more thoughts or what you think of any new stuff you read...

Sure, likewise to you. Good to know I'm not the only one who finds this (oft-neglected!) period so interesting!

[emma_goldman]

A leftist Marxist organization in Italy as opposed to the Black Brigades.

Black Brigades (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Brigades)

Some consider them terrorists. :lol:

[food-chain1]

Dario Fo and Franca Rama Red Brigade cultural workers (mostly theatre) and did important monolog concerning faked suicides of Bader-Meinhof. Red Army Faction that IMO is most moving piece of theatre evey created!

[Marion]

Originally posted by food-[email protected] 19 2006, 07:18 AM
Dario Fo and Franca Rama Red Brigade cultural workers (mostly theatre) and did important monolog concerning faked suicides of Bader-Meinhof. Red Army Faction that IMO is most moving piece of theatre evey created!
Possibly another thread, but I'd read that it was pretty likely that the RAF committed suicide in Stammheim. Certainly there's evidence that security was not all it was cracked up to be and that they were under immense mental pressure. I suspect unless the only survivor states that it was suicide then it'll always be up for debate either way.

Anyway, BBBG - enjoyed reading "Memoirs of an Italian Terrorist", thanks for the recommendation. Did you have any feel for what organisation he was part of? I'm presuming neither the Red Brigades, and doesn't sound like it was Prima Linea. Only other one I can think of was NAP, but I think they were mainly ex-prisoners. Not really sure...

[bcbm]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2006, 03:11 AM
Possibly another thread, but I'd read that it was pretty likely that the RAF committed suicide in Stammheim. Certainly there's evidence that security was not all it was cracked up to be and that they were under immense mental pressure. I suspect unless the only survivor states that it was suicide then it'll always be up for debate either way.
I'm torn on the issue. It is entirely possible the arms were smuggled in, many were during those days, but there is also a lot of reason to doubt the official story. I can't really go into much more detail than that, as its honestly been months since I read anything about the RAF.



Anyway, BBBG - enjoyed reading "Memoirs of an Italian Terrorist", thanks for the recommendation. Did you have any feel for what organisation he was part of? I'm presuming neither the Red Brigades, and doesn't sound like it was Prima Linea. Only other one I can think of was NAP, but I think they were mainly ex-prisoners. Not really sure...

NAP was a lot more active in the South and Giorgio was definitely coming from a northern, Urban background. I'm of the opinion it probably was the Red Brigades but, like much of the account, he was being purposefully vague about such specifics. The primary work he was doing, with studying the district, factory, individuals, etc in great detail and all certainly sounds like the Red Brigades.


I also recently read through all of "Strike One to Educate One Hundred" and found it to be very good and very influential towards my views on political action and armed struggle. Right now I'm reading "Never Again Without a Rifle," which is basically just an academic account of the origins of Italian terrorism, as far as I can tell. Seems good though (and is nice to read when I get sick of reading Marx and Mao :lol: ).

[SPK]

Originally posted by food-[email protected] 19 2006, 02:18 AM
Dario Fo and Franca Rama Red Brigade cultural workers (mostly theatre) and did important monolog concerning faked suicides of Bader-Meinhof.
Dario Fo was supportive of the Red Brigades?

[bcbm]

Originally posted by SPK+Aug 19 2006, 12:56 PM--> (SPK @ Aug 19 2006, 12:56 PM)
food-[email protected] 19 2006, 02:18 AM
Dario Fo and Franca Rama Red Brigade cultural workers (mostly theatre) and did important monolog concerning faked suicides of Bader-Meinhof.
Dario Fo was supportive of the Red Brigades? [/b]
He was active in Red Aid, which worked to help out prisoners of the armed struggle.