Zionists Will Never Win

[che_diwas]

The last time these two sides fought, the zionists were kicked out.... but this time

the US will try harder to support the IDF in any way possible...

The Hezbollaz, the Lebanese Army and all other Millitant groups must unite in a
single unit, so that they will be stronger in each fronts.

think Syria and Iran will have to do more than this to defend Lebanon from the
Zionists Vultures...

Optional Bullshit:

I just found out that the leader of the Hezbollaz, Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah

lies in the list of top revolutionaries after Ayotallah Khomein and Che Guevara.
(Well I dont know wheather internationally but in the middle east, he sure is
the Hero)

[Global_Justice]

:( can't believe i'm hearing this from a leftist.

hezbolla are extreme, right-wing, islamofascists. in the south of lebonan they have policies of imprisoning women, beating women, and murdering homosexuals.

and you think the moderate, democratic lebonan government should unite with them? what then, after they have driven out the israelis. should hezbollah have a say in the running of the country?

this war is terrible and the israelis are commiting war crimes, the only glimer of light at the end of the tunnel is that at least, maybe they will eliminate hezbollah and remove any power they have and get them out of the daily lives of the lebonese. because i'm sure you'll agree, they have suffered enough in this war and a sharia law, islamofascist dicatatorship at the end of it isn't a great thought.

[Cheung Mo]

I support the destruction of Islamist thought and its enablers by organisations and regimes dedicated to democratic and/or libertarian socialism. (i.e. not the U.S. or Israel, obviously)

The only organisations in the Middle East that can be trusted are leftist, left-liberal, and feminist organisations opposed to both Islamism and American imperialism.

[Ollie]

I agree that hezbollah does not provide any solutions to the lebanese people. Eyewitness reports suggest they actually shoot homosexuals, trade unionists and communists. The israeli state is carrying the most babaric crimes in killing many innocent people...backed up by the US imperialists. What sickened me today was george galloway in London clearly stating that hezbollah were not a terrorist organisation and should be supported....this went down well with the many young muslims who stood beneath him...but what kind of message does this send? The wrong one certainly. People needed to start talking sensibly and humanely...there is no moral justification in supporting a right wing religious political group simply because they are fighting against an imperial power. Solidarity with the lebanese workers who may feel drawn to hezbollah but need an alterative to go beyond religious and capitalist solutions to the problems they face.
Ollie

[( R )evolution]

Actually Hizbullah bulids hostipals, schools and homes for the people in south leabanon, they signal handlely bulit up cities in south leabanon. And Hizbullah activtely supports women's particaption in there group. I have actually spoken to a high ranking hizbullah council member who is a women. I can deal with Hizbullahs political ideaolgy after they have defened leabanon, I dont care I would rather have a dead Isreali solider than a dead Hizbullah militiant.

[x_ihag]

Let me just explain the situation for you guys, I’m Lebanese and I know what’s going on,
Everything said about Hezbollah is basically true (islamofascist, extremist….) after all its an Islamic organization but we cant just ignore him, the Lebanese social regime is based on religion, every religion has its own party so for the shih’s there is Hezbollah, inside Lebanon this party isn’t that good all what they do is for there own sake and always against the government even though they r part of it, but being part of it is just to block some of the government decision that goes against there view (like 4 example the view about Syria) so what I’m trying to do is just explain how bad Hezbollah is but now the war has started and we cant just watch the Israeli destroy our land without any resistance, in my opinion the best choice for now is to support Hezbollah in there battle against Israel….and support all other group’s that fight for freedom like Jammoul!!

Let Lebanon be another Vietnam!!!!

[Zero]

Originally posted by "x_ihaq"
Let Lebanon be another Vietnam!!!!
If not that than another Iraq.

[Dreckt]

According to my media, Syria is ready to get involved... who knows, this war could be a big one....

[Enragé]

Even though Hezbollah is a fucked organisation, we have to stand in solidarity (while continuing criticism) with them in face of israeli aggression.

We have to unite in face of the greater enemy.

[bolshevik butcher]

Well actually I don't think that launching rockets at Israeli civillian targets is doing much in the way of stopping Israeli tanks and planes.

[Enragé]

Originally posted by Clenched [email protected] 23 2006, 03:15 PM
Well actually I don't think that launching rockets at Israeli civillian targets is doing much in the way of stopping Israeli tanks and planes.
Ofcourse not, and we should criticise them because of this. This however does not diminish the righteousness of their resistance.

a dutch international socialist put it very well

"(...) it is Hezbollah which at the moment is fighting back against the Israeli warmachine - and not without succes. To have criticism in regards to its ideology and politics is necessary, and some of the tactics which Hezbollah is using - the firing upon civilian targets in israel - are simply wrong. But this criticism has to be part of solidarity [with Hezbollah], of the feeling that we are side to side and we from that point of view criticise [certain aspects of Hezbollah]."

[nikos]

hezbollah might not be the best way to solve the problem...however, hezbollah is the only one to resist and oppose to israel and at the same time to usa...so they are considered heroes..and obviously not fascists or terrorists...ok maybe in some of their beliefs they are strict and not as progressive..but still they are heroes coz they are fighting for their beliefs,,for their freedom,,although everybody else isnt doing anything..[COLOR=red]...

[YSR]

Even though Hezbollah is a fucked organisation, we have to stand in solidarity (while continuing criticism) with them in face of israeli aggression.

We have to unite in face of the greater enemy.

Yeah, fundamentalism and violence against innocents. Supporting Hezbollah just because they are "standing up" to Isreal, while acknowedging their horrifying tactics with "criticism" is absurd.

"Go ahead, hit that guy. Oh jeez, I wish you wouldn't hit him in the face. Oh well, as long as you hit him, I'll support you."

What exactly do you think Hezbollah will accomplish here? They aren't fighting a war for territory, they're just fighting to kill. I understand that they exist for a reason. I also understand that Isreal screws up a lot of things (particularly for the Palestinians).

But supporting Hezbollah is muderous and not leftist at all. Given the chance, they would probably kill us too. Cheung Mo gets it right on this one. We can't compromise our opposition to Isreal by supporting fundamentalism and mass killings.

[Enragé]

Supporting Hezbollah just because they are "standing up" to Isreal, while acknowedging their horrifying tactics with "criticism" is absurd

:huh:

The lebanese in the south have been fighting the israelis for a long time, they used to be occupied, and a part (sheba farms) still remains occupied. The answer of those lebanese to fight israelis, which is a just fight i hope you can agree with that, was given in the form of Hezbollah. Simply because we do not agree with the form in which they respond to the crimes of Israel does not mean we should not support the resistance against the crimes of Israel.

Their cause is a just one, and yes there are some pretty fucked aspects to Hezbollah, which we should criticise, but we should however not because of that withdraw all our support for them. Solidarity yes, proclaiming them to be perfect no. To do otherwise would be a bourgeois, mechanical and purist way of dealing with a righteous response of a people against imperialism and aggression.


What exactly do you think Hezbollah will accomplish here? They aren't fighting a war for territory, they're just fighting to kill.

The hezbollah wants the palestinian and lebanese prisoners (which there are thousands of) to be released (which is a just demand). What do they do to accomplish this? They capture some enemy soldiers and propose a prisoner swap...
Is it just me or is this ENTIRELY logical?


We can't compromise our opposition to Isreal by supporting fundamentalism and mass killings.

Are we doing that? NO!
We support a people's response to imperialism, aggression and injustice, while we remain CRITICAL to the rest that they do.

[tecumseh]

i read on al jazeera that israel is targeting ambulances and other neutral vehicles.
i don't support attacks on civilians either by hizballah or of course by israel but i do support as all leftists should, any attack agianst the terrorsit government of israel and their occupation forces in lebanon and palestine.

today we are all lebanese.

[YKTMX]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2006, 02:08 PM
The last time these two sides fought, the zionists were kicked out.... but this time

the US will try harder to support the IDF in any way possible...

The Hezbollaz, the Lebanese Army and all other Millitant groups must unite in a
single unit, so that they will be stronger in each fronts.

think Syria and Iran will have to do more than this to defend Lebanon from the
Zionists Vultures...

Optional Bullshit:

I just found out that the leader of the Hezbollaz, Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah

lies in the list of top revolutionaries after Ayotallah Khomein and Che Guevara.
(Well I dont know wheather internationally but in the middle east, he sure is
the Hero)
Good post, comrade.

I agree, I think the brothers in Hezbollah will kick the Zionists out once and for all this time. Every time the colonialists murder a Lebanese civilian, they're digging deeper into their own graves. The Lebanese people, like the Iraqi, Palestinian and Afghan people, will prevail in the end - it's inevitable.

Victory to the Hezbollah and Hamas!

[Delta]

Hezbollah is certainly not perfect, and in fact is far far from it, but as underdogs in a war against imperialist aggression, their fight must be supported. And as others have said, responding to Israeli crimes is a noble aim. If people don't want Hezbollah to commit "terrorist acts", then maybe the US should sell them F-16s. Then their actions could be called "war".

[Karl Marx's Camel]

Zionists Will Never Win

...I do not see any proof backing up this claim....

[Alf]

The war in the Middle East is an imperialist war on both sides, even if the sides are unequal. Hizbollah is deeply enmeshed in the regional imperialist ambitions of Syria and Iran. Israel, of course, is aligned to US imperialism.

The methods of the war are the classic methods of imperialism, on both sides: indiscriminate slaughter of populations, the whipping up of the most retrograde nationalist and religious chauvinism.

To loudly oppose both camps in this war is the elementary duty of any internationalist. I sympathise with those on this thread who, while indignantly opposing Israel's terror bombing, are not convinced by the argument that Hizbollah should be supported because it "defends the people". Hizbollah carried out its kidnap operation - whether or not it acted in concert with Syria or Iran - in full knowledge that it would provoke a massive and brutal Israeli response against the Lebanese population, because exactly the same thing had happened in Gaza shortly before. Hizbollah militants have even been quoted saying that they will gain from the Israeli bombardment, because it will push 'the people' into their waiting arms. This is the classic method of all nationalist gangsters. It has nothing to do with proletarian self-emancipation.

[Enragé]

Hizbollah is deeply enmeshed in the regional imperialist ambitions of Syria and Iran. Israel, of course, is aligned to US imperialism.

Hizbollah is, at the moment, the translation of the anti-imperialist anti-Israeli desire of the southern Lebanese.

[che_diwas]

Well My post was a short one without any description.. so many of you comrades thought that I was supporting Hezbollah ideology.. sorry your'e wrong....

I always support those who are oppose to US and its allies...

Whenever there is a war on any particular sector, I always choose sides and this time I chose hezbolla...

Mass killings are wrong...
I think that the zionists are never gonna win cause winning the war doesn't mean winning militarily.... the winner should be able to get control over the post war social and economic development and I think that the Israelis will never do that because of the unending resistance of the Lebanese people....

We might not be able to stand on the same platform supporting Hezbollahs but we all leftwingers should at this momment stand for the people of Lebanon.

I dont have so much problem for the islamic extremism ideology untill they are within their country if it backs its people but after it crosses the border than I am against it.

[zenjawa]

after reading alot of your post guys i was suprised ..some of you sound like they have no knowldge of the issue...
watch this
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7828123714384920696
you will have an idea about the issue then you can say why those people have the rigth to figth isreal...

[dusk]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2006, 06:19 PM
:( can't believe i'm hearing this from a leftist.

hezbolla are extreme, right-wing, islamofascists. in the south of lebonan they have policies of imprisoning women, beating women, and murdering homosexuals.

and you think the moderate, democratic lebonan government should unite with them? what then, after they have driven out the israelis. should hezbollah have a say in the running of the country?

this war is terrible and the israelis are commiting war crimes, the only glimer of light at the end of the tunnel is that at least, maybe they will eliminate hezbollah and remove any power they have and get them out of the daily lives of the lebonese. because i'm sure you'll agree, they have suffered enough in this war and a sharia law, islamofascist dicatatorship at the end of it isn't a great thought.
I agree......

[nikos]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2006, 07:24 PM
today we are all lebanese.
[QUOTE]

thats it.....we are lebanese,,,coz we always support the country or the group or the person in need; who although they are alone, they oppose to the strong, imperialistic pigs,,,
we mustnt forget that they are very brave for opposing and attacking israel...dont forget that all the governments now are afraid to accuse israel or the united states no matter wat the people's opinion is....dont forget that whenever a government opposed to the united states,,( i dont mean military) was destroyed...(example jugoslavia..in 1999)

[Revolution67]

I agree with Comrade Global_Justice and Comrade dusk. I just cannot believe the naiveity of some 'leftist' comrades here who are out to proclaim 'Hezbollah' and 'Hamas' as their comrades, just because they are against US-Israel axis. We must remember the saying that 'Foe's foe is not necessarily a friend'. Iranian communists made the same mistake when they allied with Islamic mullhas under the banner of Ayyatollah and what happened afterwards, when Shah fled the country? Thousands of communist/marxist/workers and writers were either murdered or jailed by the fanatical regime of Khomeini. Iranian Communist Party members are living the life of exilees for several decades now. This is the cost Iranian communists had to pay for hobnobbing with Islamic fundamentalists and I am sorry to say the leftists have not learned anything from history.

As much as I would be on the forefront on the procession of people chanting "Israel get out of Lebanon", with the same intensity and passion I will say "Hizbollah down! down!".

We MUST not commit the foolishness of supporting Hizbollah and Hamas. To us we have two enemies one Imperialist powers and other religious bigots and madmen of Hamas and Hizbollah.

[Kamraten]

Well as i understand it hezbollah is a democratic party who has ministers in the lebanese government. And this by representing the shia community wich is the biggest in lebanon.
Just like Hamas they are running schools, kindergardens and hospitals, news services, and educational facilities. Its Reconstruction campaign is responsible for numerous economic and infrastructural development projects in Lebanon. The group currently operates at least four hospitals, 12 clinics, 12 schools and two agricultural centres that provide farmers with technical assistance and training. It also has an environmental department and an extensive social assistance programme. Medical care is also cheaper than in most of the country's private hospitals and free for Hezbollah members.
Hezbollah is in the middle east regarded as a resistence movement by both muslims and christians. The european union have not listed them as anythting else then a resistence movement.

For their political wing they are a democratic party who wants lebanon to move towards islamic republic, for that they need the peoples votes as said 2003: Hezbollah favors the introduction of an Islamic government in Lebanon by peaceful democratic means.

Now they are an islamic movement who follows the ideologi of Iran. But i dont see anyone else stating them to be terrorists exept the biggest terrorists in this world, that would be United states, israel and Great brittain. Fighting imperialist and their power have always been called terrorism threw history by the imperalists. and resistence movement by its people.

I do take sides here, iam against israel all the way, i always support a peace process but when people are being attacked where all human rights are being violated i expect resistence whoever it may come from. this has to stop! but since USA still rejects to call for a cease fire. It is obvious what is going on it is obvious that this is not just about Israel or lebanon this is also about United states and their interests to dominate the middle east.

So aslong as someone is resisting they have my support.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

Well as i understand it hezbollah is a democratic party who has ministers in the lebanese government. And this by representing the shia community wich is the biggest in lebanon.
Just like Hamas they are running schools, kindergardens and hospitals, news services, and educational facilities. Its Reconstruction campaign is responsible for numerous economic and infrastructural development projects in Lebanon. The group currently operates at least four hospitals, 12 clinics, 12 schools and two agricultural centres that provide farmers with technical assistance and training. It also has an environmental department and an extensive social assistance programme. Medical care is also cheaper than in most of the country's private hospitals and free for Hezbollah members.

And apparently they also abuse women and homosexuals..?

[Jamal]

hezbolla are extreme, right-wing, islamofascists. in the south of lebonan they have policies of imprisoning women, beating women, and murdering homosexuals

This is outragous :angry: , no body can do that in Lebanon, its not a jungle you know! :wacko:

Cut them some slack! They have too many problems on their own, don't go on creating more!

I am against Hezbollah in killing innocent civillians but notice that the ratio of civillians dead to the one of soldiers deaad; the number of soldiers dead is far greater than that of the civillians. While on the other hand, for every 50 people dead ther is just one from hezbollah and for every 50 dead, there are two from the lebanese army. Compare them and see.

Can't anybody resist without facing so much problems from the people that are with the change and the revolution and social justice...

Terrorist! :mellow: Why? define the word and then use it in its proper place.

[YKTMX]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24 2006, 10:27 AM

Well as i understand it hezbollah is a democratic party who has ministers in the lebanese government. And this by representing the shia community wich is the biggest in lebanon.
Just like Hamas they are running schools, kindergardens and hospitals, news services, and educational facilities. Its Reconstruction campaign is responsible for numerous economic and infrastructural development projects in Lebanon. The group currently operates at least four hospitals, 12 clinics, 12 schools and two agricultural centres that provide farmers with technical assistance and training. It also has an environmental department and an extensive social assistance programme. Medical care is also cheaper than in most of the country's private hospitals and free for Hezbollah members.

And apparently they also abuse women and homosexuals..?
And the NLF were Stalinists who shot Trotskyists; and the FLN were Islamists who put bombs in baby carriages; and the IRA were catholic sectarians; and the Black Panthers were "reverse racists", etc.

The idiots on here who think that because Hezbollah has this or that reactionary position it means it's "OK" to say you don't mind who wins in the South of Lebanon are just deluded.

It is the duty of every socialist or revolutionary to support these anti-imperialist movement, not only in a spirit of solidarity with the Lebanese/Iraqi/Algerian/Vietnamese people, but because defeats for imperialism are victories for us in the imperialist nations.

And to the person who posited an equivalence between Syrian and Iraninian "imperialism" and the American Empire I say: you choose the wrong day to give up crack cocaine.

[Global_Justice]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2006, 11:33 PM
The war in the Middle East is an imperialist war on both sides, even if the sides are unequal. Hizbollah is deeply enmeshed in the regional imperialist ambitions of Syria and Iran. Israel, of course, is aligned to US imperialism.

The methods of the war are the classic methods of imperialism, on both sides: indiscriminate slaughter of populations, the whipping up of the most retrograde nationalist and religious chauvinism.

To loudly oppose both camps in this war is the elementary duty of any internationalist. I sympathise with those on this thread who, while indignantly opposing Israel's terror bombing, are not convinced by the argument that Hizbollah should be supported because it "defends the people". Hizbollah carried out its kidnap operation - whether or not it acted in concert with Syria or Iran - in full knowledge that it would provoke a massive and brutal Israeli response against the Lebanese population, because exactly the same thing had happened in Gaza shortly before. Hizbollah militants have even been quoted saying that they will gain from the Israeli bombardment, because it will push 'the people' into their waiting arms. This is the classic method of all nationalist gangsters. It has nothing to do with proletarian self-emancipation.
very good post comrade

[Global_Justice]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24 2006, 05:33 AM


We might not be able to stand on the same platform supporting Hezbollahs but we all leftwingers should at this momment stand for the people of Lebanon.

of course :)


We MUST not commit the foolishness of supporting Hizbollah and Hamas. To us we have two enemies one Imperialist powers and other religious bigots and madmen of Hamas and Hizbollah.

agreed ;)

[*PRC*Kensei]

Originally posted by Cheung [email protected] 22 2006, 07:36 PM
I support the destruction of Islamist thought and its enablers by organisations and regimes dedicated to democratic and/or libertarian socialism. (i.e. not the U.S. or Israel, obviously)

The only organisations in the Middle East that can be trusted are leftist, left-liberal, and feminist organisations opposed to both Islamism and American imperialism.
hamas owns & i stick with that. they are muslims (So ?) but they fight facists. they are a suprecced minority for half a century now...

Btw the palastinians used to be friends of the left.. (arafat was) & they supported the IRA to...

you dont have to "destroy" islam (you know how many reactions u can get on such a statement in real life ? you know how insulting this is for some of the muslims i know ?) you have to convince muslims it's useless & doesnt exist...
destoying islam sounds like genocide to me.. offcourse thats not what u mean, and i also appose relegion... but word choice is to hard.

[Axel1917]

I think this is a pretty good article on the issue at hand:

http://www.marxist.com/israel-invasion-leb...dshed190706.htm (http://www.marxist.com/israel-invasion-lebanon-bloodshed190706.htm)

[Janus]

I think the IDF may have underestimated the defense a little. It seems that they have encountered fiercer resistance than they bargained for and are now afraid of a full-scale invasion.

[Martin Blank]

This is pathetic. Here we have a situation demanding a working people's solution, and all that can be offered are either blanket denunciations or uncritical cheerleading. Lebanon has a strong leftwing movement, and that can be used to organize a real socially progressive alternative to both the Israeli invasion and the theocratic "opposition".

The organization of armed workers' self-defense forces -- including an international section, should enough comrades be willing to "put their money where their mouths are" -- to repel the Israeli invasion is vitally necessary, both as a force to help turn back the invaders and as an alternative to the theocratic Hizb'allah organization.

What is needed now is real leadership, not tailism, cheerleading or sideline criticism. What is needed now is for working people to enter this struggle as a subjective force, not sit back and be a passive object to be used by either bourgeois and petty-bourgeois forces.

Miles

[Enragé]

agreed ^^

however as an anti-imperialist force, hezbollah deserves our support, as well as criticism on other points

[Jamal]

The thing is that until that "leader" comes, we have to stick to who ever is resisting.
by the way, there are leftists resisting here in lebanon:jammoul(The Lebanese National Resistance Front) is a leftist resistance and it gave until now 8 martyrs.

[Enragé]

this has to be made more public
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oul&action=edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jammoul&action=edit)
spread the word comrade!

[Martin Blank]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2006, 09:13 AM
The thing is that until that "leader" comes, we have to stick to who ever is resisting.
by the way, there are leftists resisting here in lebanon:jammoul(The Lebanese National Resistance Front) is a leftist resistance and it gave until now 8 martyrs.
Comrade, it's not a matter of a "leader", but leadership -- providing a clear and concrete plan of action in the current situation. Let me put it in concrete terms: If I were in your position, I would call on Jammoul to begin organizing working people's self-defense forces of a mass scale, beginning where it has units and expanding from there.

Given that the Siniola government has now been forced into a position where it is giving Hizb'allah a measure of support, the demand should be raised for the universal arming of the people and their general organization into self-defense groups. Jammoul could spearhead at least part of this effort.

I should also note that there has been talk among some comrades I know about the possibility of some kind of "International Brigade" to defend Lebanon against the Israeli invasion. That should also be looked into by the comrades in Jammoul.

Miles

[Jamal]

I would call on Jammoul to begin organizing working people's self-defense forces of a mass scale, beginning where it has units and expanding from there.

Jammoul cannot do things like that because Hezbollah has a brilliantly trained resistance and they have a plan so jammoul cannot just go to the front without the coordination with Hezbollah its just not that simple otherwise it would make things worse.
And what do you meen by an "International Brigade"?

oh and by the way, its siniora not siniola.

[Janus]

And what do you meen by an "International Brigade"?
Like the International Brigades that participated in the Spanish Civil War.

[Enragé]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26 2006, 03:51 PM

I would call on Jammoul to begin organizing working people's self-defense forces of a mass scale, beginning where it has units and expanding from there.

Jammoul cannot do things like that because Hezbollah has a brilliantly trained resistance and they have a plan so jammoul cannot just go to the front without the coordination with Hezbollah its just not that simple otherwise it would make things worse.
And what do you meen by an "International Brigade"?

oh and by the way, its siniora not siniola.
wasnt his point. He meant like in areas where support for jammoul is high, jammoul could start arming the people, organising self-defense brigades against the israeli agression. Ofcourse you co-ordinate with hezbollah, goes without saying since in this fight at least we're on the same sides.

By international brigade he means a group of non-lebanese leftists going to fight alongside the lebanese leftists to show solidarity. This happened in the spanish civil war too, and the IB's in fact turned out to be a valuable asset in the fight against fascism.

[Janus]

Seems like Hezbollah is doing quite well against the Israelis.

Not sure if an International Brigade would have time to be put together since the IDF only plans for the offensive to last several more weeks.

Israel endures worst losses of campaign (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060726/ap_on_re_mi_ea/lebanon_israel;_ylt=AtSpeqZG2c6kdVMHyrTX4_5vaA8F;_ ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ--)

[Martin Blank]

Originally posted by Jamal+Jul 26 2006, 10:51 AM--> (Jamal @ Jul 26 2006, 10:51 AM)Jammoul cannot do things like that because Hezbollah has a brilliantly trained resistance and they have a plan so jammoul cannot just go to the front without the coordination with Hezbollah its just not that simple otherwise it would make things worse.[/b]

I think NewKindOfSoldier more or less answered this.


Originally posted by [email protected] 26 2006, 10:51 AM
And what do you meen by an "International Brigade"?

An organized military unit of people from other parts of the world that are willing to take up arms to resist the Israeli invasion.


[email protected] 26 2006, 10:51 AM
oh and by the way, its siniora not siniola.

Thank you for the correction.

Miles

[Jamal]

He meant like in areas where support for jammoul is high, jammoul could start arming the people, organising self-defense brigades against the israeli agression
This has already happened and all the places that have a high percentage of leftists have weopons ready to be used and jammoul fighters ready to fight. So this has already happend.

An International Brigade can be useful here, your right.

[Phalanx]

A quick question Jamal-

Are leftists in Lebanon going to the front or are they planning to pick up arms when they get into their cities, villages, etc? From Western media it seems like Hizbollah is doing the lions share of the fighting, but I'd rather get this confirmed from someone living in Lebanon.

[Jamal]

No they are most likely waiting for them to come to their villages and cities for them to pick up arms and fight.

Yet there are 8 martyrs for jammoul now because of successfuly blocking a naval landing near the city of Tyre.

[Alf]

Thanks for your comment, Global Justice.

I repeat: this war is part of a descent into chaos throughout the region, a slide into imperialist barbarity. The working class has no interest in fighting for either side in any of the countries directly or indirectly involved (Israel/Palestine, Lebanon, Jordan, Syria, Iran....). I see no difference whatever between those who tell us to support 'Israel's right to defend itself' and those who claim that Hizbollah is 'defending the people' or 'fighting imperialism' These are different versions of the same lie. Those who spread them are all doing the work of 'recruiting sergeants' for the imperialist war.

[Enragé]

Bullshit.
The Lebanese should defend themselves, i would defend myself too, preferably through leftist militias ofcourse, but hezbollah at the moment is an ally. Once the israelis are gone, then they are once again our adversaries.

[Janus]

The Lebanese should defend themselves
Alf is not calling for the Lebanese not to defend themselves but rather pointing out that we should always support the progressive people themselves rather than organizations that pretend to stand for their interests.

[Janus]

I should also note that there has been talk among some comrades I know about the possibility of some kind of "International Brigade" to defend Lebanon against the Israeli invasion. That should also be looked into by the comrades in Jammoul.

I'm afraid the only internationals entering the conflict are jihadists joining what they consider to be a holy war.

Iranian volunteers set off for Lebanon (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060726/ap_on_re_mi_ea/mideast_fighting_iran_volunteers)

[tecumseh]

Things are heating up in southern Lebanon...

Nine Israel Defense Forces soldiers died Wednesday and 27 others were injured in the hardest day of fighting in southern Lebanon since the war began two weeks ago. Five of the injured soldiers are in serious condition.


Eight of the IDF dead - five soldiers and three officers - were from the Golani Brigade; they were killed in fighting in the town of Bint Jbail. The ninth soldier, a paratrooper, was killed last night in Maroun Ras. <_<

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/743027.html

[Jamal]

How can we defend our selves then if we are weak and alone?

Hezbollah is a religious, fundimentalist, what ever else party, thats the last thing I can think of now. Israel is inside Lebanon now and gradualy advancing what mist happen here is that all resistance units shoul unite to the greater good and after this war is over, I can view Hezbollah again as a religious, fundimentalist, enemy if you like.

[Enragé]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2006, 11:51 AM
How can we defend our selves then if we are weak and alone?

Hezbollah is a religious, fundimentalist, what ever else party, thats the last thing I can think of now. Israel is inside Lebanon now and gradualy advancing what mist happen here is that all resistance units shoul unite to the greater good and after this war is over, I can view Hezbollah again as a religious, fundimentalist, enemy if you like.
^^
I&#39;d advise everyone hear to listen to this guy/gal, at least he knows exactly whats going on, instead of just getting scattered reports from the media

[Janus]

So, Israel does not plan on expanding the offensive though it still has intentions of occupying a strip of Lebanon.


"We received yesterday at the Rome conference permission from the world .... to continue the operation, this war, until Hezbollah won&#39;t be located in Lebanon and until it is disarmed," Israeli Justice Minister Haim Ramon told Israel&#39;s Army Radio.
So the US is the world now?

I thought this part was quite sick

Ramon also said the Israeli air force must bomb villages before ground forces enter, suggesting that this would help prevent Israeli casualties in the future.

Asked whether entire villages should be flattened, he said: "These places are not villages. They are military bases in which Hezbollah people are hiding and from which they are operating."

Thousands of civilians are believed to be trapped in villages across the border region in southern Lebanon, according to humanitarian officials. Americans who escaped a village near the epicenter of the ground fighting said Wednesday many U.S. citizens were still there.

[*PRC*Kensei]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2006, 02:13 PM
The thing is that until that "leader" comes, we have to stick to who ever is resisting.
by the way, there are leftists resisting here in lebanon:jammoul(The Lebanese National Resistance Front) is a leftist resistance and it gave until now 8 martyrs.
you can turn it how u want: he&#39;s right about a leader...

The movement of juli 26 had like 8 men alive afther their landing... what would they be without leaders like fidel or che ?

however i&#39;m not looking for "the one" here... he would get assasinated anyway.
just local leaders in city&#39;s..
lets them make revolutionary counsils...soviets. militia needs leadership.. otherwise it turns into a killing brigade aftherwards.

Stand up brave ones..

(btw: aint there any ex-ira folks around where who havnt used their gun for years & are looking for a oppertunity ? :P )

[Enragé]

Originally posted by *PRC*Kensei+Jul 27 2006, 08:24 PM--> (*PRC*Kensei @ Jul 27 2006, 08:24 PM)
[email protected] 25 2006, 02:13 PM
The thing is that until that "leader" comes, we have to stick to who ever is resisting.
by the way, there are leftists resisting here in lebanon:jammoul(The Lebanese National Resistance Front) is a leftist resistance and it gave until now 8 martyrs.
you can turn it how u want: he&#39;s right about a leader...

The movement of juli 26 had like 8 men alive afther their landing... what would they be without leaders like fidel or che ?

however i&#39;m not looking for "the one" here... he would get assasinated anyway.
just local leaders in city&#39;s..
lets them make revolutionary counsils...soviets. militia needs leadership.. otherwise it turns into a killing brigade aftherwards.

Stand up brave ones..

(btw: aint there any ex-ira folks around where who havnt used their gun for years & are looking for a oppertunity ? :P ) [/b]
more lik what would they be without the support of the population?

leaders dont make revolutions
people do

[*PRC*Kensei]

your truth doesnt affect mine.

leaders are people,
people make revolutions,
RESISTANCE AGAINST A US EQUEPPED ARMY needs leadership & co-ordination.

[Enragé]

Originally posted by *PRC*[email protected] 27 2006, 09:11 PM
your truth doesnt affect mine.

leaders are people,
people make revolutions,
RESISTANCE AGAINST A US EQUEPPED ARMY needs leadership & co-ordination.
depends what you mean by leadership

if you mean one commands all follow
then thats bullshit

if u mean simply people putting forward ideas, or leading by example..well
then as so often on the left we are arguing about bloody semantics :P

oh and co-ordination is always a good thing

[Jamal]

First of all, ofcourse there is a leader and co-ordination, people don&#39;t just grab a gun and go fight&#33;

The leader is not a castro or a che but still a leader that makes sure every mission goes as planed.

[Janus]

It&#39;s funny how even the US has even dismissed Israel&#39;s claim that they have been authorized by the world to bomb Lebanon. So I wonder who Israel considers the world now. :rolleyes:

US &#39;outrage&#39; over Israeli claims (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5223940.stm)

[Janus]

It seems some type of peace may be worked out that will include the international force that most nations have agreed to.

Hezbollah politicians back peace package (Hezbollah politicians back peace package)

However, Hezbollah harbors deep reservations about the disarmament and the force itself.

[x_ihag]

It seems some type of peace may be worked out that will include the international force that most nations have agreed to.


Do you think this will really works ?&#33;?&#33;

[Jamal]

Well I don&#39;t think so because why then are thousands of reserve troops still gathering at the border?

[x_ihag]

Well I don&#39;t think so

So do I &#33;&#33;&#33;

[OneBrickOneVoice]

something a little off-topic but interesting.

I was watching CNN a couple days ago and they were talking about the leader of helbollaz. They claimed he was a cross between the Ayatollah and Che Guevara. It made me laugh but I interested to know if it holds any weight. Are che&#39;s politics close to that of the leader of hezbollaz or was CNN talking shit as usual

[x_ihag]

I was watching CNN a couple days ago and they were talking about the leader of helbollaz. They claimed he was a cross between the Ayatollah and Che Guevara. It made me laugh but I interested to know if it holds any weight. Are che&#39;s politics close to that of the leader of hezbollaz or was CNN talking shit as usual

Well 2day i was watchin TV when hasan naserallah the leader of hezbullah was talking after they kicked the IDF out of Bent Jbeil,it was a really great message from him he really have a karizma but the funny thing is that after he finished there was a reporter who&#39;s telling he&#39;s opinion about hasan naserallah and he was like hasan naserallah is CHE GUEVARA for arabes and muslims ,and i was like WTF &#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; so i think this is all crap there is no way we can compare those 2 poeple

[Enragé]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2006, 05:15 PM
something a little off-topic but interesting.

I was watching CNN a couple days ago and they were talking about the leader of helbollaz. They claimed he was a cross between the Ayatollah and Che Guevara. It made me laugh but I interested to know if it holds any weight. Are che&#39;s politics close to that of the leader of hezbollaz or was CNN talking shit as usual
well...

there is a very heavy social aspect and idea of a "revolution of the oppressed" in radical (especially shia) Islam

ofcourse in the case of Iran at least this all got betrayed
example; in Iran you&#39;ve got this paramilitary force called "the mobilisation of the oppressed" (Baseej Mostazafán)..so there&#39;s the whole oppressed rising up idea...problem is, that brigade was used basicly to clear minefields by sending out human wave-assaults :blink:

[Cheung Mo]

It&#39;s pretty sad when a libertarian capitalist like Pim Fortuyn had a better understanding of Islamism than just about anybody on the left.

[Enragé]

Originally posted by Cheung [email protected] 30 2006, 01:22 AM
It&#39;s pretty sad when a libertarian capitalist like Pim Fortuyn had a better understanding of Islamism than just about anybody on the left.
:mellow:

:(

:angry:

ITS PRETTY FUCKING SAD TO SEE SOMEONE ON THE LEFT DEFENDING A XENOFOBIC ASSHOLE WHO RIPPED APART DUTCH SOCIETY FOR A VERY SUBSTANTIAL AMOUNT AND WHO INCREASED HATRED BETWEEN DUTCH AND FOREIGNERS

IM NOT SAYING IM GLAD HE WAS SHOT BUT I WASNT EXACTLY CRYING EITHER

:angry:

and he was NOT a libertarian in ANY WAY, he wanted to reform the netherlands untill we were like the US :blink:

[*PRC*Kensei]

Originally posted by Cheung [email protected] 30 2006, 01:22 AM
It&#39;s pretty sad when a libertarian capitalist like Pim Fortuyn had a better understanding of Islamism than just about anybody on the left.
Pim was a RACIST, ultra-right wing... libertarian.. nationalist yea.

[*PRC*Kensei]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2006, 10:15 AM

It seems some type of peace may be worked out that will include the international force that most nations have agreed to.


Do you think this will really works ?&#33;?&#33;
IT MIGHT PROTECT PEOPLE FROM GETTING KILLED ?

i mean.. could it work.. it it stops them from dieing, it&#39;s a start..

[Morag]

Originally posted by *PRC*[email protected] 30 2006, 03:12 PM


i mean.. could it work.. it it stops them from dieing, it&#39;s a start..
It is a start. It also would give the working class a chance to stand up to both Hizbollah and Israel and tell them both to fuck off. It&#39;s hard to stand up when the bombs are flying, but when things are a bit calmer, people begin to think about what really happened.

[*PRC*Kensei]

Originally posted by Morag+Jul 30 2006, 04:07 PM--> (Morag @ Jul 30 2006, 04:07 PM)
*PRC*[email protected] 30 2006, 03:12 PM


i mean.. could it work.. it it stops them from dieing, it&#39;s a start..
It is a start. It also would give the working class a chance to stand up to both Hizbollah and Israel and tell them both to fuck off. It&#39;s hard to stand up when the bombs are flying, but when things are a bit calmer, people begin to think about what really happened. [/b]
comrade.

i know you talk like a true leftist should talk.

but the "rising up of the working" class is like the last worrie now..
it&#39;s a country in war, 3 army&#39;s ( isreal, hezbollah & goverment ), human desastre & most important a...very dogmatic religion rooted in the culture. proletatian revolutions in muslim country&#39;s ? dont think so. first they need to free them of their own imagination (god) who supresses them, then they need to free themselfs of a foreigh agressor, then imperialism & THEN the bourgois. thats a long walk.

[Jamal]

Well its not that simple, the idea of religions and how people of the same religion should protect each other and that muslims can only count on muslims and christians can only count on christians is prominant. Even worse, muslim sunnis can only count on sunnis and shi&#39;its can only count on shi&#39;its...

Something must be done over time not just like that to earse this stupidity.

[RedKnight]

Here is a wonderful article.http://www.hekmatist.com/k4.do%20not%20confuse%20.htm

[Janus]

Do you think this will really works ?&#33;?&#33;
Maybe and maybe not. Besides, it probably won&#39;t be worked out for a while.