Log in

View Full Version : Historical Precedents For Anti-capitalism



elmo sez
21st July 2006, 21:43
Historical Precedents for Anti-capitalism

The ancient Spartans were anti-capitalists. They banned all forms of money, precious metals, and gemstones. Overnight, crime disappeared. The quality of life and all things in Sparta became the highest in all of Greece. Instead of focusing on the accumulation of wealth the people developed other ideals for living. Health, athletics, dance, music, social activities, artisanship, and of course, dominating other countries.

Without having to scramble for money every day, the craftsmen of Sparta focused on producing items of the highest quality. The furniture of Sparta was famous, both for its simplicity and durability. There was no ornamentation on Spartan furniture, yet the workmanship was exquisite. Joints were fitted perfectly, materials selected were flawless, all surfaces, visible or otherwise were carefully prepared and polished. Furniture from Sparta could often outlast almost any Athenian house it was placed in.

Since no-one in Sparta worked like the devil to sell shoddy, decadent consumer goods for quick cash, they found themselves awash in free time. They spent many hours a day participating in athletics, watching ahtletics, playing music and dancing. Teens were allowed one hour of privacy each evening with their lovers.

So abundant was the free time of the Spartans that they were virtually all musicians, with free communally owned instruments. Decadence and extravagance were eliminated as ideals while health and happiness became paramount. Without the icon of profit driving society today we'd approach the same ideal. Of course, history repeats itself in many ways: We are the helots of America. We work for the elite, except that our hours are longer, our taxes are higher, and instead of making essentials we waste our careers making useless consumer products for somebody else's profit or luxury items for the self-indulgence of those who don't work at all. Of course, there is no more moral justification for the acknowledged indentured servitude of the ancient helots than there is for the unacknowledged indentured servitude of modern salary slaves.

ComradeE
21st July 2006, 22:09
But the Spartans were a militaristic slave owning society that was enforced by sheer terror on the slave's by young spartan death squads . they didn't need currency they had enough slave's to do all the work for them

elmo sez
21st July 2006, 22:12
yeah i thought it was something like that

Taiga
21st July 2006, 22:18
I think it's a bad example. What a shitty society.

Phalanx
21st July 2006, 22:57
A society which 8,000 people demonstrate complete control over a quarter of a million is even worse than capitalism, it's feudalism.

ComradeOm
22nd July 2006, 17:44
Anti-capitalist =/= communist

Karl Marx's Camel
22nd July 2006, 17:48
A society which 8,000 people demonstrate complete control over a quarter of a million is even worse than capitalism, it's feudalism.

How many really significant capitalists are there today in this world? 8,000?

In any case, a small number control 6,5 billion people.

Si Pinto
22nd July 2006, 18:01
Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2006, 02:49 PM

A society which 8,000 people demonstrate complete control over a quarter of a million is even worse than capitalism, it's feudalism.

How many really significant capitalists are there today in this world? 8,000?

In any case, a small number control 6,5 billion people.
To be honest NWOG,

The pyramid class system is now so deeply imbedded in our society that the very top layers of our society can pretty much do as they please and don't bother with the day to day running of their imperialist ship, they leave it to their leutenants to crack the whip.

Free Left
22nd July 2006, 18:08
Sorry but the reason Spartans banned currency was because it would upset the order of things (merchant class etc.) and the Spartans were ultra conservative.
The Spartans controlled an area called Lacedomon (hope I spelt it right) and treated the entire population as slaves. Every year they would send out young men (Krypteia) to murder and steal from the Lacedonians, just to keep them in fear.
Also, boys would be during their teens be subjected to sexual abuse at the hands of an older man. Girls would also be abused if they did not marry young.



Since no-one in Sparta worked like the devil to sell shoddy, decadent consumer goods for quick cash, they found themselves awash in free time. They spent many hours a day participating in athletics, watching ahtletics, playing music and dancing. Teens were allowed one hour of privacy each evening with their lovers.

Now that is just bullshit. If they were awash with free time it was because they relied on slaves to do all the work.

chimx
22nd July 2006, 21:28
spartans were highly militaristic compared to their democratic athenian counter parts. military service was mandatory until a very late age and society was direct by two despots.

Lamanov
24th July 2006, 00:17
Originally posted by Chinghis Khan+--> (Chinghis Khan)A society which 8,000 people demonstrate complete control over a quarter of a million is even worse than capitalism, it's feudalism.[/b]

It's not feudalism, in Spartan case it's slave-holding.

Sheer numbers don't speak of content.


el.mozez
Instead of focusing on the accumulation of wealth the people developed other ideals for living. Health, athletics, dance, music, social activities, artisanship, and of course, dominating other countries.

Things mentioned [in bold emphasis] were wealth, and they were derived from exploitation of slave labor.


Without having to scramble for money every day, the craftsmen of Sparta focused on producing items of the highest quality.

IF that was the case - that is because they were not producing a commodity form for market, but a product with a use-value demanded by the slaveholding and landowning class, just as craftsmen who worked on feudal estates produced a use-value for that estate.

BUT in fact, all Greeks actually produced commodities for the market outside the city walls.


We are the helots of America. We work for the elite, except that our hours are longer (1), our taxes are higher (2), and instead of making essentials we waste our careers making useless consumer products for somebody else's profit or luxury items for the self-indulgence of those who don't work at all (3).

1) Our working hours are not longer: helot's whole lifetime was an owned potential labor.

2) For that reasons, becuase they, as slaves, did not own anything becuase they themselves were being owned, they did not pay taxes: they were a full time labor shell.

3) Only difference is this: demanded products did not go through the market, they were demanded directly as something already owned by the consumers.


The claim on "anticapitalism" is just silly.

Janus
25th July 2006, 09:29
They can't be considered anti-capitalists because capitalism didn't even exist back then.

Further more, they were basically a primitve, backwards, , militant, and slave society. Their society gave rise to the new definition of spartan.

Taiga
25th July 2006, 10:02
Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2006, 09:30 AM
They can't be considered anti-capitalists because capitalism didn't even exist back then.

I concur. Thus we can name any feudal or primitive society anti-capitalist. What a mindless approach.