Religion Surviving?

[Free Left]

The trend in the first world is that as a consumer culture takes root, religion tends to fade....
Will Religion die out, and if so, when??

And what about religion in a post revolutionary society? How will it cope? Will it be a sudden death or a long drawn out demise?

[Lord Testicles]

Originally posted by Free Left+Jul 20 2006, 08:52 PM--> (Free Left @ Jul 20 2006, 08:52 PM) The trend in the first world is that as a consumer culture takes root, religion tends to fade....
Will Religion die out, and if so, when?? [/b]
That’s a bit hard to predict and I seem to have misplaced my crystal ball.


Free Left Posted on Jul 20 [email protected] 08:52 PM
And what about religion in a post revolutionary society? How will it cope? Will it be a sudden death or a long drawn out demise?

I think that will depend on the person, some people will inevitably cling on to religion like leach on pigs arse, but I think most (due to the material circumstances) will drop religion for a more realistic and rational train of thought.

[Sadena Meti]

I fully expect that religion as we now know it will die out, but I think the overall nature of faith/mysticism/superstition/spirituality will probably evolve into something else.

Just as each religion is a product of the time it was created (and changes with the things that happen afterwards), the spirit of the revolutionary age will result in... something.

Impossible to say what, because we can only base our guesses on what now exists, and the world that now exists. No one can say what would grow out of a world that hasn't come into being yet.

So the opium of the people will vanish, but be replaced by simply the marijuana of the people. And maybe in a few centuries, that will be replaced by the lager of the people.

[Connolly]

Religion is an invention like everything else.

The question should be aimed at - "what is the purpose of religion and why does it come into existance".

Religion has come into existance due to our inability to control or understand our environment.

Things like low harvests manifested human sacrifice to appease the Gods.

Things like Greed and death manifested the existance of modern religion to explain the undiscovered.

We are now deveolping towards an age of rational and scientific thought - where we understand why greed comes about, why "evil" exists, where we came from, why the environment acts the way it does and - most difficult - where we go after death.

Our understanding is greater than ever - so is the control of our very existance becoming possible as we break free from climatic production restriction.

If religion came into existance to answer some of the most fundamental questions of death and social behaviour - where does that leave religion when we finally understand scientifically the answers to these questions?

It is no longer necessary.

The argument that "we need something to believe in" just dosnt hold up.

Im sure we know loads of people who are not communists, and, infact, do not hold strong beliefs or opinions about anything - yet are athiests.

My mother is an athiest - shes not "educated" into any particual doctrine - she just is one.

People dont need religious beliefs - I dont need them - and I firmly believe communism is not a "religion".

I die, decompose into soil - thats it.

[Eleutherios]

Originally posted by Free [email protected] 20 2006, 07:52 PM
The trend in the first world is that as a consumer culture takes root, religion tends to fade....
Will Religion die out, and if so, when??
Yes, on October 14, 2183, at 8:18 p.m.

Seriously though, I think religion is already dying out. As the centuries pass and scientific knowledge advances, there is less and less opportunity for supernatural thinking to "fill in the gaps" of our knowledge. The reason people invented gods in the first place was because they had no idea how to correctly explain a huge number of things in their lives: disease, weather, astronomy, the diversity of life, dreams, earthquakes, volcanoes, conscious thought and death, to name a few. Man is not satisfied to have absolutely no viable explanation for his everyday experiences, so in the absence of science he will invent them.

But now we have scientific theories which explain these things, backed up by a long, careful process of observation and logic, and God has disappeared as the required explanation for these things. I suspect religion will slowly lose its power to explain things in our lives as people learn that science tends to come up with more evidence-based ideas that actually make an attempt to approach the truth in a reasonable manner.

I doubt religion will ever completely die out — there are always really gullible people who will believe almost anything — but I bet there will eventually be a time when atheists are a majority almost everywhere.

[LSD]

The trend in the first world is that as a consumer culture takes root, religion tends to fade....

That's the nature of capitalism; because its sole interest is short-term profit, it eliminates every precapitalist institutional and social force that stands in its way. Religion is such a force.

That's not to say that individual capitalists don't have an interest in religion. Obviously they can be just as gullible as anyone else, and religion can be an effective way of keeping the masses in line.

Anti-worker policies that could never be justifed on their merits are packaged as "Christian" or subtley presented as being in line with a religious "work ethic".

Whether it's condemning welfare as "rewarding sloth" or slandering communists as "Godless heathens", the elites in society have always taken advantages of people's superstition to serve their own pragmatic class interest.

And of course the fact that religion tends to be sociall regressive anyway only makes it that much easier for the capitalists to use.

In the end though, serious religion is not compatible with a profit-only paradigm. Religious leaders may be willing to prop up capitalism to ensure their own survival as an elite, but capitalism is not a "share-friendly" system.

The market can abide no competitor and, ultimately, it will destroy any rival for the people's loyalty.

That was the inevitability that Marx regonized a hundred and fifty years ago, that eventually all social divisions under capitalism will crytsalize to workers and capitalists.

Everything else only gets in the way of "efficiency" and we know how imporant the "e word" is to the bosses. <_<


Will Religion die out

Almost certainly.


and if so, when??

We have no way of knowing that, but I&#39;d


And what about religion in a post revolutionary society? How will it cope? Will it be a sudden death or a long drawn out demise?

Probably a little bit of both.

A truly revolutionary proletariat will be a secular proletariat and following a successful overthrow of capitalism they will doubtlessly set up a fully atheist society. Those who still cling to ancient superstitions, however, will not be convinced by any reformulation of society.

Although their bullshit will be excized from public society, for many of them it will remain a part of their private life until they die.

So the social change will be rapid, but for a strong minority, it will not be absolute and their transfomration will indeed be "long and drawn out".

The best thing that we can do to insure that their "faith" dies with them, of course, is to make absolutely sure that they cannot indoctrinate their children. Raising children to "believe" in organized "faith" must be recognized in post revolutionary society as child abuse and punnished accordingly.

Otherwise we&#39;ll still be fighting this battle centuries from now.


I fully expect that religion as we now know it will die out, but I think the overall nature of faith/mysticism/superstition/spirituality will probably evolve into something else.

I doubt it.

"Spirituality" and "faith" are just other words for superstition, and there is no reason that superstition cannot be excized fully.

There is no "need" for that kind of crap&#33; :angry:


I doubt religion will ever completely die out — there are always really gullible people who will believe almost anything — but I bet there will eventually be a time when atheists are a majority almost everywhere.

People won&#39;t believe anything, after all how many people still believing the Olympian Gods?

Once a social entity is divorced from power or relevence, it quickly loses popularity. I see no reason why the "mainstream" religions of today cannot follow the same course as their "ancient" counterparts.

I&#39;m not suggesting that the elimination of religion will be at all "easy", but I would say that in the end it should be complete.

[Eleutherios]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21 2006, 05:32 AM
People won&#39;t believe anything, after all how many people still believing the Olympian Gods?

Once a social entity is divorced from power or relevence, it quickly loses popularity. I see no reason why the "mainstream" religions of today cannot follow the same course as their "ancient" counterparts.

I&#39;m not suggesting that the elimination of religion will be at all "easy", but I would say that in the end it should be complete.
Good point.

[Sadena Meti]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21 2006, 12:32 AM
People won&#39;t believe anything, after all how many people still believing the Olympian Gods?

As it happens, there are people who still believe in the Olympian Gods. Most are not in Greece though, they are in California. New-Age Pagans... you just don&#39;t want to know. I mean, if you think followers of the classical religions are irrational, spend some time with neo-pagans. You&#39;ll be tearing your hair out.

[Free Left]

As it happens, there are people who still believe in the Olympian Gods. Most are not in Greece though, they are in California. New-Age Pagans... you just don&#39;t want to know. I mean, if you think followers of the classical religions are irrational, spend some time with neo-pagans. You&#39;ll be tearing your hair out.

Still a lot of druids in Ireland and Scotland who worship the Sun and Moon etc. :unsure:

[Jaden]

I think it would have to take a long time for religion to die out. Or, if the Revolution happens within the next century, it should take approximately a hundred years. I would say October 14 2183 sounds about right, give or take a couple of decades. :lol:

In actuality, I think that any organized religion will eventually fade. At it seems right now, it seems almost impossible to predict when these religions will fade out. Christianity has been around for nearly two millenia, Catholicism alone as been around a millenium and a half approximately. Paganism is still around, too, and such religions as Voodoo.

I think, also, the reason for the way religion has come this far isn&#39;t just that it "explains" the unexplainable (but there are things that sects of the same religion are divided on such as ghosts) but because some people might have started thinking "I almost got hit by a bus today but I didn&#39;t. It was God who made me step back to read the sign, not just coincidence". People often believe in that whole "plan", everything has a purpose, etc. It&#39;s thinking like this that perpetuates religious systems and even secular beliefs.

I don&#39;t know think it will be a sudden thing, but that it will fade. After all, in a post-revoluationary society if a parent were to have kept their faith entirely to themselves but one day their child comes into the room while they&#39;re praying and asks what they are doing, it will only lead to more questions. So them explaining their actions and beliefs on request for the information by the child could still perpetuate the superstitions - and then eventually down the line someone might think "it was God who made sure his word stayed alive" and everything could happen all over again if a movement was large enough. Then again, social environments would be entirely different and that may not happen at all.

[Delta]

Originally posted by rev&#045;[email protected] 23 2006, 05:17 AM
As it happens, there are people who still believe in the Olympian Gods. Most are not in Greece though, they are in California. New-Age Pagans... you just don&#39;t want to know. I mean, if you think followers of the classical religions are irrational, spend some time with neo-pagans. You&#39;ll be tearing your hair out.
Do you think that they actually believe in that, or that they simply say they do as a way of lashing out against a society that they don&#39;t feel connected to?

[Sadena Meti]

Originally posted by Delta+Jul 24 2006, 10:45 AM--> (Delta @ Jul 24 2006, 10:45 AM)
rev&#045;[email protected] 23 2006, 05:17 AM
As it happens, there are people who still believe in the Olympian Gods. Most are not in Greece though, they are in California. New-Age Pagans... you just don&#39;t want to know. I mean, if you think followers of the classical religions are irrational, spend some time with neo-pagans. You&#39;ll be tearing your hair out.
Do you think that they actually believe in that, or that they simply say they do as a way of lashing out against a society that they don&#39;t feel connected to? [/b]
Sadly, if you spend time with them, you realize they do believe all maner of things. The strangest bunch I&#39;ve ever met are the "otherkin." These people honestly and truely believe that they are magical creatures (dragons, elves, etc.) trapped in human bodies. I couldn&#39;t believe it when I first ran into them, but I think this is taking the concept of belief to the level of psychological delusion. Gave me the willies.