One Tactic That The Israelis Should Use...

[General Patton]

The Palestinian Ministry of Prisoner Affairs says that Israel is holding 9,400 Palestinian prisoners and detainees. Israel should do their best in identifying the most valuable prisoners to the Palestinian groups, the most dangerous, and the most strategically significant. Then they should minimize the threat that these prisoners pose with respect to the technique of kidnapping and demanding prisoner exchanges by executing every last one of them. Then they should go ahead and dump the bodies in the Gaza Strip or the West Bank and explain that they will no longer be taking any prisoners. Anyone involved in armed conflict with Israel will be hunted and killed, including political leaders in key countries who are known to support Hamas and Hezbollah.

Copyright 2006

[theraven]

Originally posted by General [email protected] 20 2006, 04:28 AM
The Palestinian Ministry of Prisoner Affairs says that Israel is holding 9,400 Palestinian prisoners and detainees. Israel should do their best in identifying the most valuable prisoners to the Palestinian groups, the most dangerous, and the most strategically significant. Then they should minimize the threat that these prisoners pose with respect to the technique of kidnapping and demanding prisoner exchanges by executing every last one of them. Then they should go ahead and dump the bodies in the Gaza Strip or the West Bank and explain that they will no longer be taking any prisoners. Anyone involved in armed conflict with Israel will be hunted and killed, including political leaders in key countries who are known to support Hamas and Hezbollah.

Copyright 2006
two problems

1) israel has no death pentaly except holoauct related crimes ( ibe lieve)

2) they wont' get any intel that way.

[Urban Rubble]

Writing "Copyright" at the bottom doesn't actually make it Copyrighted, nor does it make it any less idiotic.

At least your type has grown past pretending to care about human rights and democracy, it's refreshing.

[Morag]

Originally posted by General [email protected] 20 2006, 04:28 AM
The Palestinian Ministry of Prisoner Affairs says that Israel is holding 9,400 Palestinian prisoners and detainees. Israel should do their best in identifying the most valuable prisoners to the Palestinian groups, the most dangerous, and the most strategically significant. Then they should minimize the threat that these prisoners pose with respect to the technique of kidnapping and demanding prisoner exchanges by executing every last one of them. Then they should go ahead and dump the bodies in the Gaza Strip or the West Bank and explain that they will no longer be taking any prisoners. Anyone involved in armed conflict with Israel will be hunted and killed, including political leaders in key countries who are known to support Hamas and Hezbollah.

Copyright 2006
1). You really are bloodthirsty, aren't you?

2). The Israelis know already which are the most dangerous and important of their prisoners. And they keep them alive for a reason...

3). How would it help dedicated terrorists (or freedom fighters, for those members who hold that view), to know that they'd be killed? They are already willing to die, or have you missed the fact that their terrorists? The fact that the most effective method of terror against Israel weren't those rockets, but suicide bombings? To be fair, many prisoners aren't willing to blow themselves up, but rather to send braver people to do the deed, but they still know that many of their members get killed by missiles aimed directly at them. So, the deterrence has been around for years and has been ineffective at stopping Hamas and Hezbollah.

4). In reality, for the situation, and considering the relative positions of strength in the conflict, Israel could stick their fingers up their collective arse and still be on top of things. 3 soldiers kidnapped leads to two invasions? Doesn't sound like a beleagured country that's having difficulties. Of course, I doubt the incursions have anything to do with the kidnappings, but that's me. (Oh, I copyright that!)

[The Sloth]

hmmm.. general, you seem like the type of person that would consider self-defense during a home invasion "a bit much."

or, maybe not.. i'm simply forcing your logic to its natural & absolute conclusion.

if you're uncomfortable to where this leads you, simply change the form of your argument so that your weaknesses are at least partially invisible.

i must say, you're quite ripe with generalizations, and your ideas, assuming they even exist, are as vague as vagueness goes.. what i would suggest to you is this: post a thread with clear and very specific points, possibly related to historical events (after all, i don't want to get too ahead of myself here, as i don't know if you're capable of discussing history.. at this point, i'll just assume that your specialty is rhetoric, not substance) so that you could get some clear and cruel rebuttals.

[Raisa]

Originally posted by General [email protected] 20 2006, 04:28 AM
The Palestinian Ministry of Prisoner Affairs says that Israel is holding 9,400 Palestinian prisoners and detainees. Israel should do their best in identifying the most valuable prisoners to the Palestinian groups, the most dangerous, and the most strategically significant. Then they should minimize the threat that these prisoners pose with respect to the technique of kidnapping and demanding prisoner exchanges by executing every last one of them. Then they should go ahead and dump the bodies in the Gaza Strip or the West Bank and explain that they will no longer be taking any prisoners. Anyone involved in armed conflict with Israel will be hunted and killed, including political leaders in key countries who are known to support Hamas and Hezbollah.

Copyright 2006
The tactic the israli government should use is to kill itself!

Damn, they start too much shit.
Bastards.

They kill ALOT of innocent people.
The actions of that evil country CONDITION people to be killers at childhood.
They make the criminals their prisons are full of, and if they were so damn holy and so damn worthy of being in the "holy" land, they wouldnt have a holocaust in it.
I dont feel bad.

As if they dont got enough problems they send a bomb into Lebanon.
Thats tiring to give a shit for Israel.
I feel bad for their civilians,but anything else if you give a damn its cause you got too much time on your hands.

[Severian]

That's bar talk.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Patton, you're lower than a scorpion's nutsack, you know that?

[RevSouth]

How the fuck did he not get banned for this? Well, some of the OI'ers do advocate some pretty crazy shit, but I thought this was stepping over the line.

[MKS]

Israel does seek the assassination of terrorist leaders, they have for several years. However once the terrorist leader is captured they really don’t pose a threat, and the intelligence that can be extracted is very valuable therefore executing them would not be the best route to take. Israel should however completely invade and subdue the Palestinian people, put them under martial law and quickly eradicate all Palestinian extremist, while at the same time allowing moderate Palestinian leaders to establish a provincial territorial government that will gradually evolve into a sovereign nation. That’s the only way to protect Israel as well as Palestinian civilians from escalating violence.

[RevSouth]

Part of the deal would have to be securing Palestine sovereignity over itself. This means all Israeli settlements out of Palestinean territories, and granting tne Palestinians authority over roads, water, resources, etc. These are things that Israel did not offer in their sovereignity deal a while back, but is something that should definitely happen.

[which doctor]

Originally posted by General [email protected] 19 2006, 11:28 PM
The Palestinian Ministry of Prisoner Affairs says that Israel is holding 9,400 Palestinian prisoners and detainees. Israel should do their best in identifying the most valuable prisoners to the Palestinian groups, the most dangerous, and the most strategically significant. Then they should minimize the threat that these prisoners pose with respect to the technique of kidnapping and demanding prisoner exchanges by executing every last one of them. Then they should go ahead and dump the bodies in the Gaza Strip or the West Bank and explain that they will no longer be taking any prisoners. Anyone involved in armed conflict with Israel will be hunted and killed, including political leaders in key countries who are known to support Hamas and Hezbollah.

Copyright 2006
What are you, like 10 years old or something?

Copyright is automatically put on anything that you publish, so writing Copyright 2006 does nothing more unless you actually got that registered with the Copyright Office in DC.

[MKS]

This means all Israeli settlements out of Palestinean territories

Israel left Gaza and went back to the agreed borders of the 1967 agreement. The Palestinians used this territory to launch attacks against Israel and invade their territory. Palestine should have used the acquired land to demonstrate their ability to organize a peaceful and functioning settlement.

[The Sloth]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21 2006, 02:39 AM
Israel should however completely invade and subdue the Palestinian people, put them under martial law and quickly eradicate all Palestinian extremist, while at the same time allowing moderate Palestinian leaders to establish a provincial territorial government that will gradually evolve into a sovereign nation.
my god, what makes you think that israel is interested in nurturing "moderates"?

that would defeat the entire point.

realistically, if palestinian "moderates" become a central force, it would mean that israel's "retaliatory" violence is illegitimate.. and, certainly, israel doesn't want its violence to be considered even more illegitimate than it is now.

[theraven]

my god, what makes you think that israel is interested in nurturing "moderates"?

that would defeat the entire point.

realistically, if palestinian "moderates" become a central force, it would mean that israel's "retaliatory" violence is illegitimate.. and, certainly, israel doesn't want its violence to be considered even more illegitimate than it is now.

1) If the moderates were in control israel wouldn't have to be using force. instead of wasting their money on rockets and guns the govenrment would use its money to build civilian infastrucutre and gaza might beceome a little less of a hell hole. israel has no interast in constantly fighitning in gaza, its dagnerous and not worth the price.

2) Israels use of force atm is extremely legetiamte. it is being attacked by acts of war by people either in charge of the govenrment or being lent protection by the government of the area, thus israels response is perfectly legitmaite.



Part of the deal would have to be securing Palestine sovereignity over itself. This means all Israeli settlements out of Palestinean territories, and granting tne Palestinians authority over roads, water, resources, etc. These are things that Israel did not offer in their sovereignity deal a while back, but is something that should definitely happen.

1) why should israelis give up thier land if in the same stroke their suppose dot let the arabs of the region into their country. this makes no sense/
2) israel needs the water as well.


hmmm.. general, you seem like the type of person that would consider self-defense during a home invasion "a bit much."

no thats actually exactly what he is advocating. israel is having its home bombarded, so it got out its rifle and is putting a stop to it.

[Janus]

If the moderates were in control israel wouldn't have to be using force
They used to be in control but Israel still used force nevertheless.


israel has no interast in constantly fighitning in gaza, its dagnerous and not worth the price.
Tell that to them.


it is being attacked by acts of war by people either in charge of the govenrment or being lent protection by the government of the area, thus israels response is perfectly legitmaite.
Hezbollah wields a lot of autonomy in the South and the Lebanese gov. has already asked them to release the prisoners so it's not like they are protecting Hezbollah.


why should israelis give up thier land if in the same stroke their suppose dot let the arabs of the region into their country. this makes no sense
Giving land back to the rightful owners makes no sense?


israel is having its home bombarded, so it got out its rifle and is putting a stop to it.
More like it got out its nuke and is trying to deal with it.

[RevSouth]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2006, 10:20 PM
Israel left Gaza and went back to the agreed borders of the 1967 agreement.
On the contrary.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/0d/Settlements2006.jpg

I think the lighter areas (military regions) may have been deserted by the Israelis, but the Israelis still stake claim to many settlements in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. The Oslo Accords did not state anything on the Israeli settlements and roads, which control of is maintained by Israel.

And what would you do when you live in an occupied land, your water and resources controlled by a foreign power? Your house is bulldozed because it was not built with a permit, or in retaliation for a suicide bombing? You have to go through multiple checkpoints to get to work or visit your family? Do you elect moderates, and protest peacably? Or do you fight back?

[theraven]

The tactic the israli government should use is to kill itself!

Suicide is agianst all 3 major religoins, which are a majorit in israel.


Damn, they start too much shit.
Bastards.


oh yea they were the ones after geting something they wanted from their enemy used i to attakc them


They kill ALOT of innocent people.

1) what exactly is a ALOT
2) under what circusmtances odes this happen?


The actions of that evil country CONDITION people to be killers at childhood.
They make the criminals their prisons are full of, and if they were so damn holy and so damn worthy of being in the "holy" land, they wouldnt have a holocaust in it.
I dont feel bad.


are you stupid or just trying to be insulitng. comparing the fighting in israel to the systmaitc mass murder of 12 million people in europe is indefensible.


As if they dont got enough problems they send a bomb into Lebanon.
Thats tiring to give a shit for Israel.
I feel bad for their civilians,but anything else if you give a damn its cause you got too much time on your hands.

I think you know shit about the situaion.

[theraven]

Originally posted by RedSouth+Jul 21 2006, 05:20 AM--> (RedSouth @ Jul 21 2006, 05:20 AM)
[email protected] 20 2006, 10:20 PM
Israel left Gaza and went back to the agreed borders of the 1967 agreement.
On the contrary.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/0d/Settlements2006.jpg

I think the lighter areas (military regions) may have been deserted by the Israelis, but the Israelis still stake claim to many settlements in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. The Oslo Accords did not state anything on the Israeli settlements and roads, which control of is maintained by Israel.

And what would you do when you live in an occupied land, your water and resources controlled by a foreign power? Your house is bulldozed because it was not built with a permit, or in retaliation for a suicide bombing? You have to go through multiple checkpoints to get to work or visit your family? Do you elect moderates, and protest peacably? Or do you fight back? [/b]
israel has left gaza entierley. I don't beleive it even has any military bases left in there. there are NO settlemnets left in gaza.

perhaps you have an old map...

[theraven]

They used to be in control but Israel still used force nevertheless.

the moderates where either not in control or nto very moderate..


Tell that to them.


they have to now, hamas has been using gaza as a launching pad. but they aren't staying there i don believe


Hezbollah wields a lot of autonomy in the South and the Lebanese gov. has already asked them to release the prisoners so it's not like they are protecting Hezbollah.


its lebanons job to police its own country. just because they aren't actively protecting hamas doesnt' mean they aren't complicit.


Giving land back to the rightful owners makes no sense?


who are the right ful owners?


More like it got out its nuke and is trying to deal with it.

no, they have nukes but they havne't used them.

[RevSouth]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21 2006, 12:22 AM
israel has left gaza entierley. I don't beleive it even has any military bases left in there. there are NO settlemnets left in gaza.

perhaps you have an old map...
As it turns out that is a map of the West bank...

[theraven]

Originally posted by RedSouth+Jul 21 2006, 05:30 AM--> (RedSouth @ Jul 21 2006, 05:30 AM)
[email protected] 21 2006, 12:22 AM
israel has left gaza entierley. I don't beleive it even has any military bases left in there. there are NO settlemnets left in gaza.

perhaps you have an old map...
As it turns out that is a map of the West bank... [/b]
lol indeed-i didnt look to closely the first time.

[Janus]

the moderates where either not in control or nto very moderate..
So the Arafat and Abbas gov. weren't moderate? That's as moderate as you're gonna get.


its lebanons job to police its own country. just because they aren't actively protecting hamas doesnt' mean they aren't complicit.
OK. Dealing with Hezbollah is one thing but bombing civilians is another.


who are the right ful owners?
The illegal settlements were made on Palestinian property.


no, they have nukes but they havne't used them.
:lol: I was using an analogy.

[MKS]

Didn’t you see the TV footage of Israel security forces dragging Israeli citizens from settlements in Gaza, there were mass protests against the action, but the Israeli administration, in the interest of furthering peace with the Palestinians evacuated Gaza and gave it to the Palestinian authority.


realistically, if palestinian "moderates" become a central force, it would mean that israel's "retaliatory" violence is illegitimate.. and, certainly, israel doesn't want its violence to be considered even more illegitimate than it is now.

Israel has no interest in furthering violence with the Palestinians, as they know that they are surrounded by enemy states. All the Arab states are probable aggressors, and the Israelis act only when absolutely necessary to secure their safety.



Hezbollah wields a lot of autonomy in the South and the Lebanese gov. has already asked them to release the prisoners so it's not like they are protecting Hezbollah.

Yes but the Lebanese gov't must act aggressively if they are sincere in their efforts to aide Israel. They however are very lax, whether it is because of prompting from Syria and Iran is beside the point. They must be held responsible, just as the Taliban was held responsible for harboring al-qaeda.


They used to be in control but Israel still used force nevertheless.

Name one moderate Palestinian administration .

[Janus]

Didn’t you see the TV footage of Israel security forces dragging Israeli citizens from settlements in Gaza, there were mass protests against the action, but the Israeli administration, in the interest of furthering peace with the Palestinians evacuated Gaza and gave it to the Palestinian authority.
But not the West Bank though.


They must be held responsible, just as the Taliban was held responsible for harboring al-qaeda.
Not really. The Taliban actually protected and refused to give up Bin Laden. The Lebanese gov. has asked Hezbollah to return the soldiers.


Name one moderate Palestinian administration .
Moderate in Palestinian terms means accepting the state of Israel.

[Loknar]

The thing i support happening to all terrorists is this. After killing them, place their bodies in pigs blood.

[PRC-UTE]

Patton's idiotic recipe is a pretty good indication of why the US has been weaker at counter-insurgency than its cousins across the pond. If you kill all your enemies (like, by bombing them) you don't know to what extent you've actually damaged your enemy's organisation or infrastructure. You also lose all intellegence value, which is as important as killing resistance leaders.

[theraven]

So the Arafat and Abbas gov. weren't moderate? That's as moderate as you're gonna get.


arafat defnitnly nt. abbas i dunno. and just becuase ous ay "thats as moderat as you gonna get " doesn' mean they are accepbtely moderate.


OK. Dealing with Hezbollah is one thing but bombing civilians is another.


sadly hezbollah mixes up with the civilains made that idnetical. if hezbolla wore uniforms, marked all vehiicles and flew flags outside all buildings this would probably eliminate civilian caulsities.


The illegal settlements were made on Palestinian property.


the government has always been able to take property away. this is nothing new.

[Janus]

and just becuase ous ay "thats as moderat as you gonna get " doesn' mean they are accepbtely moderate.
If they were any more moderate than that, the would loose power (which has just happened).


sadly hezbollah mixes up with the civilains made that idnetical
Even if they wore uniforms, there would still be civilian casualties because the air force is targeting a heavily populated city.

[peacegirl]

Originally posted by General [email protected] 20 2006, 04:28 AM
The Palestinian Ministry of Prisoner Affairs says that Israel is holding 9,400 Palestinian prisoners and detainees. Israel should do their best in identifying the most valuable prisoners to the Palestinian groups, the most dangerous, and the most strategically significant. Then they should minimize the threat that these prisoners pose with respect to the technique of kidnapping and demanding prisoner exchanges by executing every last one of them. Then they should go ahead and dump the bodies in the Gaza Strip or the West Bank and explain that they will no longer be taking any prisoners. Anyone involved in armed conflict with Israel will be hunted and killed, including political leaders in key countries who are known to support Hamas and Hezbollah.

Copyright 2006
I understand your sentiment, but that is the wrong direction to go in. It will only incite more hatred, and more resistance on both sides. This is not the solution. :(

[theraven]

If they were any more moderate than that, the would loose power (which has just happened).

thats a problme. the amount of moderatio needed for israel to be able to trust them is to "moderate" for the people. wonder which side doesnt' want paece..



I understand your sentiment, but that is the wrong direction to go in. It will only incite more hatred, and more resistance on both sides. This is not the solution. sad.gif

and what is?

[MKS]

The Palestinian administration has never embraced a "moderate" stance; they have always been extremists who seek the destruction of Israel. Just because Arafat was better at concealing his agenda dose not mean he was more willing to progress the peace process.

As for the Lebanese they have been willing to allow Hezbollah to remain because they know that if they openly opposed them, they would easily be defeated by an extremist coup probably backed by Syria or Iran. The Lebanese Army is very weak and their government is a puppet of more extreme elements of the Arab region. The Israelis have every right to retaliate as they have. It is a constant that every time Israel acquiesces or allows concessions the Palestinians and Arabs openly take advantage of it and increase attacks on Israel.

I have always supported the 2 state approach, but it seems the Palestinians are either unwilling or unable to establish a legitimate state that can coexist with their Jewish neighbors.

[tecumseh]

generalpatton your sabre rattling isnt amusing. however i support your initiative if you switch the hizballah and hamas members with the iof :lol:

[theraven]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21 2006, 10:44 PM
generalpatton your sabre rattling isnt amusing. however i support your initiative if you switch the hizballah and hamas members with the iof :lol:
a) what is the IOF

b) if its what i suspect then you do support sabre ratltaling..just for the other side;

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2006, 03:51 AM
b) if its what i suspect then you do support sabre ratltaling..just for the other side;
I do not support palestinian abre rattling. I support Palesitians running Israel through with the sabre and claiming independece.

[theraven]

Originally posted by Jazzratt+Jul 22 2006, 10:41 AM--> (Jazzratt @ Jul 22 2006, 10:41 AM)
[email protected] 22 2006, 03:51 AM
b) if its what i suspect then you do support sabre ratltaling..just for the other side;
I do not support palestinian abre rattling. I support Palesitians running Israel through with the sabre and claiming independece. [/b]
..and then taking israels land to i am sure. in which case i have no problem with israel beating "palestine" to a bloody pulp. they have the rigth to self defesne afterall.

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by theraven+Jul 22 2006, 12:36 PM--> (theraven @ Jul 22 2006, 12:36 PM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2006, 10:41 AM

[email protected] 22 2006, 03:51 AM
b) if its what i suspect then you do support sabre ratltaling..just for the other side;
I do not support palestinian abre rattling. I support Palesitians running Israel through with the sabre and claiming independece.
..and then taking israels land to i am sure. in which case i have no problem with israel beating "palestine" to a bloody pulp. they have the rigth to self defesne afterall. [/b]
Of course you do, the impearialist state of Israel is advantageous to you cappies. A free Palestine is not.

[theraven]

Originally posted by Jazzratt+Jul 22 2006, 04:04 PM--> (Jazzratt @ Jul 22 2006, 04:04 PM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2006, 12:36 PM

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2006, 10:41 AM

[email protected] 22 2006, 03:51 AM
b) if its what i suspect then you do support sabre ratltaling..just for the other side;
I do not support palestinian abre rattling. I support Palesitians running Israel through with the sabre and claiming independece.
..and then taking israels land to i am sure. in which case i have no problem with israel beating "palestine" to a bloody pulp. they have the rigth to self defesne afterall.
Of course you do, the impearialist state of Israel is advantageous to you cappies. A free Palestine is not. [/b]
how is a free state of israel an advantage to me? it is something i believe in because as a jew i like our homelan din israel, but I have no real problem with the arabs having a state. in fact they have many.

[Lord Testicles]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2006, 04:51 AM
a) what is the IOF

I think he has changed the IDF (Israeli Defense Force) to IOF (Israeli Offence Force)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The War on Terror. (http://www.freeonlinegames.com/play/426.html)

[red team]

Borders are artificial constructs and so is ethnicity. There's a lot more differences between classes going across all ethnic lines within the same border than there are differences between ethnic groups going across all artificially constructed borders.

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by theraven+Jul 22 2006, 07:35 PM--> (theraven @ Jul 22 2006, 07:35 PM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2006, 04:04 PM

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2006, 12:36 PM

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2006, 10:41 AM

[email protected] 22 2006, 03:51 AM
b) if its what i suspect then you do support sabre ratltaling..just for the other side;
I do not support palestinian abre rattling. I support Palesitians running Israel through with the sabre and claiming independece.
..and then taking israels land to i am sure. in which case i have no problem with israel beating "palestine" to a bloody pulp. they have the rigth to self defesne afterall.
Of course you do, the impearialist state of Israel is advantageous to you cappies. A free Palestine is not.
how is a free state of israel an advantage to me? it is something i believe in because as a jew i like our homelan din israel [/b]
So wait, because of your flavour of sky wizard you believe that this state is justified in its every action?

Ladies and gentelmen - the problem with relegion.

[red team]

..and then taking israels land to i am sure. in which case i have no problem with israel beating "palestine" to a bloody pulp. they have the rigth to self defesne afterall.

The question is can you do that working with the cultural environment that you have right now in Israel? Israel is a liberal democracy which means that workers and other members of society which does not gain from such plunder are free to protest the governments actions. Furthermore Israel society like every society in the world is polarising due to globalisation. What do the poor have to gain from a war with another country. Is the loot of the conquered country going to be distributed to them? It's a lose-lose situation for them. If the war was won no loot is going to be distributed to the victors because they're not considered the victors the Israel upper classes are the victors. If the war drags on they'll lose out on whatever social spending that will be diverted to finance the war.

Why would any segment of the population support a lose-lose situation for themselves?

[theraven]

Originally posted by Jazzratt+Jul 22 2006, 10:28 PM--> (Jazzratt @ Jul 22 2006, 10:28 PM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2006, 07:35 PM

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2006, 04:04 PM

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2006, 12:36 PM

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2006, 10:41 AM

[email protected] 22 2006, 03:51 AM
b) if its what i suspect then you do support sabre ratltaling..just for the other side;
I do not support palestinian abre rattling. I support Palesitians running Israel through with the sabre and claiming independece.
..and then taking israels land to i am sure. in which case i have no problem with israel beating "palestine" to a bloody pulp. they have the rigth to self defesne afterall.
Of course you do, the impearialist state of Israel is advantageous to you cappies. A free Palestine is not.
how is a free state of israel an advantage to me? it is something i believe in because as a jew i like our homelan din israel
So wait, because of your flavour of sky wizard you believe that this state is justified in its every action?

Ladies and gentelmen - the problem with relegion. [/b]
it has nothing to do with God, God is a factor but not the sole one. its also about nationalitics reasons.




The question is can you do that working with the cultural environment that you have right now in Israel? Israel is a liberal democracy which means that workers and other members of society which does not gain from such plunder are free to protest the governments actions. Furthermore Israel society like every society in the world is polarising due to globalisation. What do the poor have to gain from a war with another country. Is the loot of the conquered country going to be distributed to them? It's a lose-lose situation for them. If the war was won no loot is going to be distributed to the victors because they're not considered the victors the Israel upper classes are the victors. If the war drags on they'll lose out on whatever social spending that will be diverted to finance the war.

Why would any segment of the population support a lose-lose situation for themselves?

because there wouldn't be muhc plunder from any way ag aisnt the "palestnainains" it would eleminteate a threat, which is better for all.

[General Patton]

Patton's idiotic recipe is a pretty good indication of why the US has been weaker at counter-insurgency than its cousins across the pond. If you kill all your enemies (like, by bombing them) you don't know to what extent you've actually damaged your enemy's organisation or infrastructure. You also lose all intellegence value, which is as important as killing resistance leaders.

Excuse me, but the notion that you need your enemy's eyes and ears to do your own battle damage assessment is completely ridiculous. Outside of torture, I really doubt that they are going to be giving reliable information. Call me naive, but I do not think that bribing terrorists with ice-cream bars is how U.S., Pakistani, Israeli, or any other nation that has dealt with Al-Qaeda, or its predecessors, is extracting intel from captured operatives. If it were well known that these detainees were to be executed, it might be easier to get reliable information by trading their life in exchange for data that is consistently reliable. If they feed us poor information, get rid of them. They are of no value, and actually still present a threat, especially in states like Israel where detainees are allowed contact with the outside world. Many terrorist plots have been planned inside the walls of Israeli prisons. If they are going to keep the mutha f*ckers alive, then the least they should do is run the prison like a United States Super Max prison.

[RevSouth]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2006, 12:00 AM
Ladies and gentelmen - the problem with relegion.
it has nothing to do with God, God is a factor but not the sole one. its also about nationalitics reasons. l. [/quote]
Well that is one deadly reactionary cocktail. A mix of nationalistic, racialist, and religious pride.

[The Sloth]

the idea that it's not worth the price may or may not be true. however, simply because you have a critical analysis of the situation doesn't mean that israel does. not everyone is rational, or ethical. some people are just pigs.

and, if israel had no interest in fighting in gaza, it simply wouldn't fight in gaza. there is certainly an interest there, even if *we* consider that interest rather stupid.


Israels use of force atm is extremely legetiamte. it is being attacked by acts of war by people either in charge of the govenrment or being lent protection by the government of the area, thus israels response is perfectly legitmaite.

i certainly have no problem with killing terrorists. but, i have the suspicion that israel's interest in lebanon has nothing to do with getting rid of hezbollah. sure, it may be the interest of some politicians, of a lot of civilians, but these interests don't always overlap. different actions are oftentimes controlled by different interests, and different groups.. even if they are, ultimately, contradictory.

as for legitimacy.. take a look at most of the towns and regions israel has bombed. sure, you may take israel's appeals that "those were hezbollah strongholds" at face value, but, in the real world, they're destroying hick towns, civilian centers, apartment buildings, and, in that famous instance, an airport.. basically, structures that have nothing to do with hezbollah.

also, hezbollah is not "in charge" of the government.. and even if hezbollah itself was the government, that certainly doesn't excuse the mis-treatment of civilians that have nothing to do with hezbollah's actions. sure, bin laden might blame "me" for the actions of the american government, but hey, if he's fucking ignorant of the political reality of america, and thinks he can confuse my actions with the actions of a state, as if i am some kind of institution and not a person, then it doesn't mean he's right, or justified; it simply means that he's stupid.

the majority of the terrorism in the region is israeli state terrorism.. suicide bombers can wreck a fucking bus or hit an IDF soldier, but that's certainly no worse than what the other fuckers, on the *other* side of the fence, have done continuously, and still do to this day.


no thats actually exactly what he is advocating. israel is having its home bombarded, so it got out its rifle and is putting a stop to it.

lol, something tells me you don't pay attention to the news.

[General Patton]

there is certainly an interest there, even if *we* consider that interest rather stupid.

Yeah, government carrying out one of its only legitimate functions, which is to provide security for its citizens, and maintain a civil society where people don't have to worry about getting their heads blown off by their aggressive neighbors is completely stupid! The nerve of the Israelis. They should just get back in line for the gas chamber. Their desire to live is completely idiotic.

[The Sloth]

Originally posted by General [email protected] 25 2006, 03:07 AM
Yeah, government carrying out one of its only legitimate functions, which is to provide security for its citizens, and maintain a civil society where people don't have to worry about getting their heads blown off by their aggressive neighbors is completely stupid! The nerve of the Israelis. They should just get back in line for the gas chamber. Their desire to live is completely idiotic.
sometimes, i wonder whether you actually read our posts, or if you just close your eyes and run your hands across the computer screen, hoping to get the "gist" of it.

by the way, you're not very witty.

[theraven]

i certainly have no problem with killing terrorists. but, i have the suspicion that israel's interest in lebanon has nothing to do with getting rid of hezbollah. sure, it may be the interest of some politicians, of a lot of civilians, but these interests don't always overlap. different actions are oftentimes controlled by different interests, and different groups.. even if they are, ultimately, contradictory.

No i'm pretty sure Israel is doing it to get rid of hezbollah. they are a big thraet to israel.


as for legitimacy.. take a look at most of the towns and regions israel has bombed. sure, you may take israel's appeals that "those were hezbollah strongholds" at face value, but, in the real world, they're destroying hick towns, civilian centers, apartment buildings, and, in that famous instance, an airport.. basically, structures that have nothing to do with hezbollah.

1) well why would israel bombard a town if they had no reasont os supect hezbollah was there? it would be a waste of mutniosn and bad plubilictiy

2) an airport has notignt od o with hezbollah? yaaaaa ook


also, hezbollah is not "in charge" of the government.. and even if hezbollah itself was the government, that certainly doesn't excuse the mis-treatment of civilians that have nothing to do with hezbollah's actions. sure, bin laden might blame "me" for the actions of the american government, but hey, if he's fucking ignorant of the political reality of america, and thinks he can confuse my actions with the actions of a state, as if i am some kind of institution and not a person, then it doesn't mean he's right, or justified; it simply means that he's stupid.


1) i said it is either "in charge of the govenrmnet or being lent proteciton by the govenrmnet"

2) no the civilains re not nesscairly resopnebl for their govnments actiosn, however israel is not targeting civilains. it targets hezbollah which purposly builds its things in with civilain targets


the majority of the terrorism in the region is israeli state terrorism.. suicide bombers can wreck a fucking bus or hit an IDF soldier, but that's certainly no worse than what the other fuckers, on the *other* side of the fence, have done continuously, and still do to this day.

yea ok, so a proffesinal mitliaryt sweepignt horugh taking otu gunmen (with stray bullets maybe hitting a kid waling around since those gunmen never have the courage for open battlee is as bad as a guy sitting on a bus full of innconet poel suddenly blowing himself up? what kind of nut job are you?

[The Sloth]

No i'm pretty sure Israel is doing it to get rid of hezbollah. they are a big thraet to israel.

oh really. israel has nurtured the radical elements in the middle east for decades, and even offered funding for the fundamentalist group that eventually became hamas.

what makes you think that today, or tomorrow, is any different?

any time there is a "threat" of peace in the middle east, israel intentionally undermines it.. even bombs a few civilian targets hours before a permanent cease-fire is to be signed.


1) well why would israel bombard a town if they had no reasont os supect hezbollah was there? it would be a waste of mutniosn and bad plubilictiy

you're basically asking me why israel is full of idiots and murderers, as if i'm supposed to know, or even answer that.

but, if history is any indication, then i could answer like this: the little towns are being bombed for intimidation.. and, again, to radicalize the moderate or non-political aspects of the region.

to you, this may be very surprising.. it may even, based on your posts, be incomprehensible to you. however, that's because you're proceeding from a few shaky premises, such as: "israel is interested in peace" and "israel has no reason to radicalize the many aspects of the region."

bullshit, i say.

as for "publicity".. well, damn! you may say that it would be bad publicity if they were to bomb a little town or other civilian targets, but the fact is, they already did bomb and continue to bomb the little towns and other civilian targets.. with no kind of visible consequences.


2) an airport has notignt od o with hezbollah? yaaaaa ook

hmmm, how about you respond to my posts with information?

what kind of debate are you really expecting when your greatest profundity is a repitition of what i said, with the simple addition of a question mark and an insignificant idiom?

or, did you simply offer me that dumb response to buy some time, so you could work out all the stupid metaphysics and somehow rationalize israeli actions? a huge project, no doubt.


however israel is not targeting civilains.

i wonder how you came to this conclusion. i suppose you read a statement or two by the israeli prime minister, and assumed it was truthful.

but, that's not the way that critical thought works in this world.


it targets hezbollah which purposly builds its things in with civilain targets

i wouldn't be surprised if, in the 300+ dead, only 3% of them were non-civilian targets.

oh, wait.. the fact that 95-97% of those killed are civilian targets is what the mainstream news teams are currently reporting!


yea ok, so a proffesinal mitliaryt sweepignt horugh taking otu gunmen (with stray bullets maybe hitting a kid waling around since those gunmen never have the courage for open battlee is as bad as a guy sitting on a bus full of innconet poel suddenly blowing himself up? what kind of nut job are you?

see, the problem is that you assume that the most the israeli defense forces are responsible for is an "accidental" stray bullet hitting a kid or two.

in the real world, it's not stray bullets that's the issue.. it's the systematic, the methodical, destruction of civilians and civilian targets.. that's the issue.

you take the quotes of generals and defense and government officials to be truthful.. and complain if anyone wants to investigate.

my information comes from internationally-recognized anti-war and human rights groups, some of them based in israel. you, on the other hand, either repeat the bullshit of stupid, ego-driven commentators on prime-time TV, or, again, appeal to the generals and the government officials, as if i should ever believe those liars.

[tecumseh]

brooklyn mecca,

i dont know how you have the time or patience to debate with these clowns. they are clearly racists who value israeli life over the lives of arabs.

theraven, how can you defend israels actions since olmert was elected. the kill ratio in lebanon has been at least 20 to 1. most of the lebanese who have died were civilians. i hope all the iof soldiers are killed in lebanon.

[The Sloth]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26 2006, 12:09 AM
brooklyn mecca,

i dont know how you have the time or patience to debate with these clowns.
because clowns, by definition, offer supreme amusement.

[CrazyModerate]

Originally posted by General [email protected] 20 2006, 04:28 AM
Hello, my internet handle is General Patton. I'm really cool and original, using one of the most famous generals in history, right? Anyways, I believe in dishonorable conflict and ethnic cleansing. Anyone who opposes Israeli hegemony in the Middle East should be killed. I know my name is that of a certain World War II hero, but in reality, my values are more on par with certain other World War II figures, such as Heinrich Himmler, the leader of the SS. I think the irony that my name and values create is quite humourous. Anyways, death to all who oppose Herr Bush!
Copyright 2006
Fixed~

[theraven]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26 2006, 12:09 AM


theraven, how can you defend israels actions since olmert was elected. the kill ratio in lebanon has been at least 20 to 1. most of the lebanese who have died were civilians. i hope all the iof soldiers are killed in lebanon.
1) I am sure all the lebanse who died were "civilans" since that means they aren't solides carrying arms openily wearing a uniform. since i don't believe hezbollah does that, its going to be very hard to differaiten between the nice guy tryign to get hsi family out and a hezbollah gurella. however a 20-1 kill ratio, israels d oing a good job

2) well I don't want either sides civlians to die, however hezbollah did start it, and is sitll diliblertly hitting israeli civilians.

[theraven]

Originally posted by CrazyModerate+Jul 26 2006, 04:59 AM--> (CrazyModerate @ Jul 26 2006, 04:59 AM)
General [email protected] 20 2006, 04:28 AM
Hello, my internet handle is General Patton. I'm really cool and original, using one of the most famous generals in history, right? Anyways, I believe in dishonorable conflict and ethnic cleansing. Anyone who opposes Israeli hegemony in the Middle East should be killed. I know my name is that of a certain World War II hero, but in reality, my values are more on par with certain other World War II figures, such as Heinrich Himmler, the leader of the SS. I think the irony that my name and values create is quite humourous. Anyways, death to all who oppose Herr Bush!
Copyright 2006
Fixed~ [/b]
ohh your a clever one.

[Janus]

I am sure all the lebanse who died were "civilans" since that means they aren't solides carrying arms openily wearing a uniform. since i don't believe hezbollah does that, its going to be very hard to differaiten between the nice guy tryign to get hsi family out and a hezbollah gurella.
Bombs don't differentiate.


well I don't want either sides civlians to die, however hezbollah did start it, and is sitll diliblertly hitting israeli civilians.
It's called a war. Tit for tat.

[theraven]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26 2006, 05:52 PM

I am sure all the lebanse who died were "civilans" since that means they aren't solides carrying arms openily wearing a uniform. since i don't believe hezbollah does that, its going to be very hard to differaiten between the nice guy tryign to get hsi family out and a hezbollah gurella.
Bombs don't differentiate.


well I don't want either sides civlians to die, however hezbollah did start it, and is sitll diliblertly hitting israeli civilians.
It's called a war. Tit for tat.
ok so why are you compliang about israel then?

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2006, 05:51 AM
ok so why are you compliang about israel then?
Israel did the "tat", Palestine and Lebanon are just reacting with their "tit" (I'm aware how funny that sounds but I was trying to explain it to you in terms of tit for tat.)

[Intifada]

I have been away for a while but I see that "theraven" is still as ignorant as ever.

Either that or s/he has no problem with lying.


well I don't want either sides civlians to die, however hezbollah did start it, and is sitll diliblertly hitting israeli civilians.

The ironic thing about the above statement is that in the "Atrocities in Gaza" (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=51588&st=0) thread, you quite clearly stated:

I'm sorry but "he started it" doesnt' [sic] get you out of trouble in middle school, it certainly doesn't in the real world.

That was your pathetic response to the argument that the root of the conflict between Israel and the Palestinian people lies in the illegal occupation of Palestinian land by Israel.

Anyway, let us take your statement at face value and ignore the usual Zionist hypocrisy that we see time and time again.

Hezbollah, quite legitimately attacked a military target and took prisoner two Israeli soldiers. Their stated aim is to implement their "promise to free Arab prisoners in Israeli jails".

In response to this, Israel (as was seen and still is being seen in Occupied Palestine (LINK) (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5215608.stm)) indiscriminately attacked the Lebanese population and has ignored condemnation from the UN (with the unwavering support of the Americans and the poodle Blair) - whilst even going as far as to attack a UN outpost and kill a few of their soldiers too.

As a result, Hezbollah has launched rockets into Israel causing relatively little damage and a few casualties. These attacks could have been brought to an end if Israel agreed to an immediate ceasefire.

It seems Israel is focused completely on the destruction of a sovereign nation (So why the outcry when Ahmedinejad called for the destruction of Israel?), but unlike Saddam Hussein's invasion of Kuwait, the Israelis will get away with this atrocity.

[theraven]

he ironic thing about the above statement is that in the "Atrocities in Gaza" thread, you quite clearly stated:

I'm sorry but "he started it" doesnt' [sic] get you out of trouble in middle school, it certainly doesn't in the real world.


the differnce being israel isn't using that as an excuse to murder ciilians, however the way hezbollah has posiioned themselves makes it impossible for any activie of israel to have any other effect


That was your pathetic response to the argument that the root of the conflict between Israel and the Palestinian people lies in the illegal occupation of Palestinian land by Israel.


no that was in response to a quote that said



This arbitrary killing inflamed a wave of anger in the Gaza Strip, which had been relatively quiet until then. Hamas responded to the anger on the street, and permitted its people to participate in the firing of Qassams. In the next two days, about 80 Qassams were fired, until Hamas restored calm. Thus, during the Sharon-Bush meeting, the world received a perfect illustration of the untrustworthiness of Abbas.


this basicly said hamas restarted its rocket attacsk (which hand't realy stopped) because of an explosion they cliamed an artillery shell


Anyway, let us take your statement at face value and ignore the usual Zionist hypocrisy that we see time and time again.

lets see what the lying leftist has for us today folks..

Hezbollah, quite legitimately attacked a military target and took prisoner two Israeli soldiers. Their stated aim is to implement their "promise to free Arab prisoners in Israeli jails".


indeed, their act while legietamte, as still an act of war.


In response to this, Israel (as was seen and still is being seen in Occupied Palestine (LINK)) indiscriminately attacked the Lebanese population and has ignored condemnation from the UN (with the unwavering support of the Americans and the poodle Blair) - whilst even going as far as to attack a UN outpost and kill a few of their soldiers too.


which some believe was being used by hezbollah (whihc is the only reational reasont o bomb the place)


As a result, Hezbollah has launched rockets into Israel causing relatively little damage and a few casualties. These attacks could have been brought to an end if Israel agreed to an immediate ceasefire.


a temperorry end anyway..meanwhile hezbollah would regroup and work geting better rockets.

and as for relatively little damage lets look here

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3281843,00.html




It seems Israel is focused completely on the destruction of a sovereign nation (So why the outcry when Ahmedinejad called for the destruction of Israel?), but unlike Saddam Hussein's invasion of Kuwait, the Israelis will get away with this atrocity.

what soveign nation re they destroying? lebanon? puhleeze...



Israel did the "tat", Palestine and Lebanon are just reacting with their "tit" (I'm aware how funny that sounds but I was trying to explain it to you in terms of tit for tat.)


as a rule both sides can claim that jaz...

[The Sloth]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2006, 01:36 PM
which some believe was being used by hezbollah (whihc is the only reational reasont o bomb the place)
liar. the actual "excuse" that israel uses is "the air strike was accidental.. we didn't mean to destroy the u.n. outpost."

[Intifada]

the differnce being israel isn't using that as an excuse to murder ciilians, however the way hezbollah has posiioned themselves makes it impossible for any activie of israel to have any other effect

Israel is using the taking of two Israeli prisoners by Hezbollah as an excuse to bombard Lebanon and invade the south of the country.

In this bombardment and invasion, Israel has killed hundreds of innocent people.

Louise Arbour, the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, stated that the "indiscriminate shelling of cities constitutes a foreseeable and unacceptable targeting of civilians. Similarly, the bombardment of sites with alleged military significance, but resulting invariably in the killing of innocent civilians, is unjustifiable".

Indeed, the UN Humanitarian Chief Jan Egeland stated that Israel's attacks are "a violation of international humanitarian law".

Israel has targeted and killed civilians fleeing the country (LINK (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5184122.stm))

On the 23rd of July, three families fleeing Tyre at the command of the IDF were attacked by rockets fired from Israeli helicopters, even though they were all prominently waving a white flag from their automobiles (LINK (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/24/world/middleeast/24tyre.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all&oref=slogin)).

Israel has also attacked Red Cross ambulances that were evacuating civilians.

Due to attacks on supply lorries, internal refugees in Beirut have difficulty in receiving food and medicines.

Moreover, it has been reported that the Israelis have been using internationally prohibited weapons against the civilian population of Lebanon, such as phosphorus incendiary bombs.

Hundreds of Lebanese people have been murdered by Israel and according to UN estimates half a million Lebanese people have been made refugees.


no that was in response to a quote that said


Same difference.

You are still a hypocrite.


this basicly said hamas restarted its rocket attacsk (which hand't realy stopped) because of an explosion they cliamed an artillery shell

Show me evidence that Hamas fired rockets into Israel during their voluntary 16-month truce.


indeed, their act while legietamte, as still an act of war.

Whilst Israel has committed war crimes.


which some believe was being used by hezbollah (whihc is the only reational reasont o bomb the place)

Define "some".

The initial stance of the Israelis was that it was "an accident" (Just like the Qana massacre in 1996), even though the UN told the Israelis ten times or so to stop the bombing.


a temperorry end anyway..meanwhile hezbollah would regroup and work geting better rockets.

Hezbollah would have no reason to keep on attacking Israel if Israel gave back Arab prisoners in exchange for the two Israeli PoWs.


and as for relatively little damage lets look here


You simply proved my point.

Compare that damage to this (http://lebanonunderattack.wordpress.com/pictures-israeli-way-of-freeing-2-soldiers/), and you will see what I mean.


what soveign nation re they destroying? lebanon? puhleeze...


You are denying that Lebanon is a sovereign nation?

How so?

[Janus]

ok so why are you compliang about israel then?
So you expect the Lebanese people to sit still while Israel pummels them?

[theraven]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2006, 04:46 PM

ok so why are you compliang about israel then?
So you expect the Lebanese people to sit still while Israel pummels them?
so you expect israel to sit there while lebanse pummel them ?

[Janus]

so you expect israel to sit there while lebanse pummel them ?
The Lebanese began their attacks after Israel began the bombardment.

[theraven]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2006, 11:35 PM

so you expect israel to sit there while lebanse pummel them ?
The Lebanese began their attacks after Israel began the bombardment.
Israels bombardnemt started after hezbollah kidnapped its soliders.

[Janus]

And that bombardment sure has helped them to get those soldiers back. :rolleyes:

[theraven]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2006, 12:23 AM
And that bombardment sure has helped them to get those soldiers back. :rolleyes:
not yet but so?

[The Sloth]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2006, 12:21 AM

Israels bombardnemt started after hezbollah kidnapped its soliders.
of course, hezbollah has nothing to do with the lebanese population.. it is the lebanese population that is being attacked, though.

so, while hezbollah engaged in a legitimate war-act (that is, taking POW's, which israel itself does all the time, and far more frequently than any local arab group or nation), israel's "retalliation" is mostly against the civilian structures and the civilians themselves that have nothing to do with hezbollah.. realistically, any sensible observor can see that israel's intentions have nothing to do with "reclaiming POW's."

again, you call these lebanese targets "hezbollah strongholds," but you can't even produce any evidence for that.. sure, you may unknowingly quote the israeli army, but how about you look at the sources of human rights groups, and some commentators -- israeli and non-israeli -- that are denying the mainstream propaganda?

[Zero]

Call me kind of cynical, but I find it sort of strange that bombing a crowded resort full of Palestinians and killing an entire family except for a 5 year old girl is a 'small tactical mistake', yet Hezbollah (who at the time was not affiliated with the Lebeneese government) kidnapping 2 soldiers is an act of war.

Though I'm not making any presumptions. I'm not educated well enough on the entire background of the issue.

[General Patton]

And that bombardment sure has helped them to get those soldiers back.

This coming from a person whose tagline reads, "No Quarter". You're not fooling anybody commie. We all know that your ilk is more violent and less compassionate when it comes to warfare than anybody. Just as any American prisoner of war during the Korean Police Action. How about our MIA's in Vietnam?

Did you ever stop to think that perhaps the Israeli government has written these guys off, because they know they are dead? This might not get them back. However, it will go a long way in demonstrating to their neighbors what happens when you openly advocate the tactics of Hezbollah and Hamas, provide them with quarter, and even goes as far as electing members of these terrorist organizations into their parliament. This has more to do with crippling the infrastructure that these killers are using as a means to attack Israel, than it does anything else. I support Israel in what they are doing. After all, they are fighting the same war as we are, on a slightly different front.

I also think that we should offer an apology to Russia for criticizing them for using brutality in their defense against the Chechens. How else are you going to fight these pieces of sh*t?

[Janus]

not yet but so?
So we should just target other nations even if we aren't even sure about reaching or goals?


This coming from a person whose tagline reads, "No Quarter". You're not fooling anybody commie. We all know that your ilk is more violent and less compassionate when it comes to warfare than anybody.
Yes, and no wars have been started by capitalists. By the way, that's a slaughtered baby in your avatar is it not? :o


Just as any American prisoner of war during the Korean Police Action. How about our MIA's in Vietnam?
The US slaughtered countless Korean civilians in the war and that's ok? The military even admitted that planes would intentionally bomb innoncent refugees.

The Vietnamese MIA's are either dead (they have found many bodies since the war) or have been assimilated into Vietnamese society and do not want to come back. These myths of Vet sightings are idiotic. By the way, you do know how one gains MIA status right?


Did you ever stop to think that perhaps the Israeli government has written these guys off, because they know they are dead?
Well, launching that offensive would sure save their necks. :rolleyes:


However, it will go a long way in demonstrating to their neighbors what happens when you openly advocate the tactics of Hezbollah and Hamas, provide them with quarter, and even goes as far as electing members of these terrorist organizations into their parliament
The people elected Hezhollah? Israel should just extreminate them?


How else are you going to fight these pieces of sh*t?
How about letting Chechyna go? The only reason they are resisting is because of Russia's attempts to keep the region under control in order to gain access to the resources there.

[theraven]

Originally posted by Brooklyn-Mecca+Jul 28 2006, 01:54 AM--> (Brooklyn-Mecca @ Jul 28 2006, 01:54 AM)
[email protected] 28 2006, 12:21 AM

Israels bombardnemt started after hezbollah kidnapped its soliders.
of course, hezbollah has nothing to do with the lebanese population.. it is the lebanese population that is being attacked, though.

[/b]
the lebanse populaion si being atacked because hezbollah hides among them


so, while hezbollah engaged in a legitimate war-act (that is, taking POW's, which israel itself does all the time, and far more frequently than any local arab group or nation)

Israel takes POW's in that it captures them during battle. suprising someone by there checkpoint and grabbing thme is not a POW, it is a kidnapping


israel's "retalliation" is mostly against the civilian structures and the civilians themselves that have nothing to do with hezbollah.. realistically, any sensible observor can see that israel's intentions have nothing to do with "reclaiming POW's."

no the retatliaot is broader and aimed at killing hezbollah


again, you call these lebanese targets "hezbollah strongholds," but you can't even produce any evidence for that.. sure, you may unknowingly quote the israeli army, but how about you look at the sources of human rights groups, and some commentators -- israeli and non-israeli -- that are denying the mainstream propaganda?

what evidcne do you want?

[theraven]

The Vietnamese MIA's are either dead (they have found many bodies since the war) or have been assimilated into Vietnamese society and do not want to come back. These myths of Vet sightings are idiotic. By the way, you do know how one gains MIA status right?


1)oh yea those guys really love living in a 3rd world shithole and I'm sure their nice stay at the hotel hanoi makes the even happier

2) how do you gain MIA status? please cite with links.

[Zero]

Originally posted by "theraven"
2) how do you gain MIA status? please cite with links.

http://www.google.com/search?q=obtaining+M...:en-US:official (http://www.google.com/search?q=obtaining+MIA+status&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official)

[theraven]

Originally posted by Zero+Jul 28 2006, 07:44 PM--> (Zero @ Jul 28 2006, 07:44 PM)
"theraven"
2) how do you gain MIA status? please cite with links.

http://www.google.com/search?q=obtaining+M...:en-US:official (http://www.google.com/search?q=obtaining+MIA+status&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official) [/b]
no shit-how bout posting the actual answer

[Zero]

Originally posted by "Wikipedia.org"
Missing In Action (abbreviated MIA), is a term (dating from 1946) referring to a member of the armed services who is reported missing following a combat mission and whose status as to injury, capture, or death is unknown. The missing combatant must not have been otherwise accounted for as either killed in action or a prisoner of war.Link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_In_Action").

Why are you insisting on doing no research yourself?

[theraven]

Originally posted by Zero+Jul 28 2006, 08:00 PM--> (Zero @ Jul 28 2006, 08:00 PM)
"Wikipedia.org"
Missing In Action (abbreviated MIA), is a term (dating from 1946) referring to a member of the armed services who is reported missing following a combat mission and whose status as to injury, capture, or death is unknown. The missing combatant must not have been otherwise accounted for as either killed in action or a prisoner of war.Link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_In_Action").

Why are you insisting on doing no research yourself? [/b]
because the other poster implyed

a) he knew

b) there was something unexepcte about it

i wasnt' asking you .

[Janus]

If your death is not verified it is a MIA. That's why most of the MIA's are dead because they either died in a place crash or were killed before the enemy authorities could get to them.

[theraven]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2006, 09:10 PM
If your death is not verified it is a MIA. That's why most of the MIA's are dead because they either died in a place crash or were killed before the enemy authorities could get to them.
many are prseuemd dead hence the term "missing and presumed dead". many tohers however, espeically pilots and people with information that amttered were sent to secret camps and used for information. this was a topic of much discussion in america i believe.

[Janus]

this was a topic of much discussion in america i believe.
Yes and since then many of these MIA's remains have been found mainly at their crash site. Anyone remotely familiar with Vietnam can tell you that it is difficult to find remains in the damn jungle.