Log in

View Full Version : Were Those Dumb Ass...



General Patton
20th July 2006, 06:54
In a study rehashing and reconfirming work that has already been conducted and documented by Aldous Huxley's "Doors of Perception", researchers at Johns Hopkins University School of Medicines have been experimenting with psilocybin. They conclude what the rest of us have known for years. Mushrooms lead to seemingly spiritual experiences in most subjects. This is one of the first experiments of it's kind since the 1960's, as the scientists hope to clear the way for further experimentation with other mind-altering hallucinogenics. Haven't we learned enough from Timothy Leary's "turn on, tune in, and drop out" mentality that ruled the late 60's, and the rampant drug use that followed, especially in the 1990's. Drugs are detrimental to a nation's productivity and the quality of it's youth.

Seattle Times (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003118880_shrooms11.html)

Hopefully, these researchers will further study the effects of N,N-dimethyltryptamine.

DMT (http://fusionanomaly.net/dmtthespiritmolecule.html)

Perhaps these groundbreaking researchers are merely paving the way for another MKUltra. I wonder what new and exciting drugs and methods of mind control they have in mind this time.

Wikipedia MKUltra (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mk_ultra)

Jazzratt
20th July 2006, 15:01
Originally posted by General [email protected] 20 2006, 03:55 AM
Drugs are detrimental to a nation's productivity and the quality of it's youth.
Oh no. Not the 'Quality of a nation's youth!'
So what if people would rather take drugs then toil endlessly in the name of an abstraction (the nation.), somone on drugs must have written the book as far as your politics are concerned. You seem to think everyone should be under tight control, not allowed to do as they wish and be trapped under the yoke of both government and economic oppression.

Have you ever had a spiritual experience on 'shrooms, by the way?

ÑóẊîöʼn
20th July 2006, 16:07
aven't we learned enough from Timothy Leary's "turn on, tune in, and drop out" mentality that ruled the late 60's, and the rampant drug use that followed, especially in the 1990's. Drugs are detrimental to a nation's productivity and the quality of it's youth.

Utter bullshit. The War on Drugs kills more people than disseminating accurate and useful information about all drugs would do. Don't you agree it's a better idea for heroin users to have access to clean needles rather than continue using dirty needles and contribute to the spread of AIDS/HIV?

Also, look at Amsterdam for an example of what happens when you legalise soft drugs. Has their society imploded? Certainly not. If you've ever tried weed, then you'll know that unlike alcohol it can't turn you into an aggressive anti-social arsehole.

Speaking as an atheist, I've had experience on drugs that could be described as spiritual. Doesn't mean anything in the real world, but it's a hella load of fun.

Loknar
21st July 2006, 11:03
There are certain druge Id support legalizing such as marajuana but things like heroine never. Addictive drugs especially. Alcahol is already a risky product for many people. In my case I have cases of alcaholism on both sides of my family. Ive seen the sadness addiction creates and the utter waste of life it produces. Just thinking about it makes me sad... Though I have 2 stikes against me I do drink but I am responcible about it. Marajuana is not physically addicting but Its something I dont care to use. I think a real manly polock like my self who can stomach crappy vodka is a better goal accomplished and taking a few puffs....no offense... But yes i dont mind its legalization.

ÑóẊîöʼn
21st July 2006, 12:38
I think a real manly polock like my self who can stomach crappy vodka is a better goal accomplished and taking a few puffs....no offense...

Try smoking an entire blunt by yourself, taking long, deep, lungbusting puffs. We'll see how "tough" you are then :lol:

emma_goldman
22nd July 2006, 12:32
Originally posted by [email protected] 21 2006, 08:04 AM
There are certain druge Id support legalizing such as marajuana but things like heroine never. Addictive drugs especially. Alcahol is already a risky product for many people. In my case I have cases of alcaholism on both sides of my family. Ive seen the sadness addiction creates and the utter waste of life it produces. Just thinking about it makes me sad... Though I have 2 stikes against me I do drink but I am responcible about it. Marajuana is not physically addicting but Its something I dont care to use. I think a real manly polock like my self who can stomach crappy vodka is a better goal accomplished and taking a few puffs....no offense... But yes i dont mind its legalization.
Actually, legalization usually decreases the amount of people who use.

Legalizing heroin would be a good idea.

Anyways, generally drugs are considered bad when they are used primarily by the working class (it's OK to drink champagne, but not so to drink beer) and the WAR ON DRUGS is aimed at the lower classes.

Dean
23rd July 2006, 17:43
Though I do support complete legalization of drugs, I do recognize that their usage is a self-destructive escapism. I do not think that, except in regard to biological health problems, it is responsible to use drugs in most cases.

General Patton
25th July 2006, 08:57
Don't you agree it's a better idea for heroin users to have access to clean needles rather than continue using dirty needles and contribute to the spread of AIDS/HIV?

If epidemiology is your thing, spiking their drugs would probably have a more desirable effect as it would eliminate the problem entirely.

ÑóẊîöʼn
25th July 2006, 18:37
Originally posted by General [email protected] 25 2006, 05:58 AM

Don't you agree it's a better idea for heroin users to have access to clean needles rather than continue using dirty needles and contribute to the spread of AIDS/HIV?

If epidemiology is your thing, spiking their drugs would probably have a more desirable effect as it would eliminate the problem entirely.
Drug use does not deserve a death sentence, you fucking moral retard :rolleyes:

Piss off, troll.

Eleutherios
25th July 2006, 19:00
Yeah, really. What's your beef with drugs? Why do you think anyone but me has a right to control what does and does not go into my body? I thought you cappies were really into that "self-ownership" stuff.

(takes a giant hit off his bong)

General Patton
26th July 2006, 05:12
(takes a giant hit off his bong)

And then goes and raids his mommy's fridge. Loser.

Dean
26th July 2006, 05:56
Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2006, 04:01 PM
Yeah, really. What's your beef with drugs? Why do you think anyone but me has a right to control what does and does not go into my body? I thought you cappies were really into that "self-ownership" stuff.

(takes a giant hit off his bong)
Drugs are bad, and they do have a compelling effect on the lives of the user and others. However, imposing restrictions on them and making a black market out of their aquisition makes the knowledge of the drugs vague and simply exacerbates any problem that would occur from drug use.

This guy seems to be a great example the anti-humanist, wishing death upon those who fall victim to the vice. That kind of thinking is much more dangerous for someone than smoking a joint every day would be.

Anyways, Marijuana has some very bad effects and can be very psychologically addictive. I have two close friends that cannot quit. I hope you quit, or at least do not do it regularly.

emma_goldman
26th July 2006, 05:57
Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2006, 02:44 PM
Though I do support complete legalization of drugs, I do recognize that their usage is a self-destructive escapism. I do not think that, except in regard to biological health problems, it is responsible to use drugs in most cases.
Does drug use ALWAYS necessitate escapism?

:mellow:

General Patton
26th July 2006, 06:03
Does drug use ALWAYS necessitate escapism?

No. You might be using it to that end, but it is entirely possible for a drug user to have a complete self-realization and be driven quite mad by what they find. It may not always be possible to escape one's self, or the realities of life, especially if the user happens to be fond of hallucinogens.

Eleutherios
26th July 2006, 06:04
Originally posted by General [email protected] 26 2006, 02:13 AM

(takes a giant hit off his bong)

And then goes and raids his mommy's fridge. Loser.
Huh? I have my own fridge and my own food in my own apartment. Thanks for applying a stereotype to me though. It shows me what a good rational critical thinker you are!

Loser.

If you don't like me taking bong hits, well too bad buddy, cause this is my life, not yours. You worry about what goes into your body, and I'll worry about what goes into mine. Deal?

(takes another giant hit off his bong)

General Patton
26th July 2006, 06:09
I apologize. It's just hard for me to believe that a self-labeled communist-anarchist (a bit of an oxy-moron) could be a productive member of society, and although you claim that you don't live with your mom, I will still assume that you live in a crummy, smelly, moldy, roach-ridden studio apartment and work at the shittiest job imaginable because of your flawed thinking. I will also assume that it is your failure at life that causes you to succumb to the most ridiculous political theories imaginable.

Eleutherios
26th July 2006, 06:11
Well if it helps you to think that way in order to avoid actually confronting the ideas I have, or the actual definitions of communism and anarchism, then you can live in your little bubble of fantasy over there and I won't bother you with my logic and reason.

General Patton
26th July 2006, 06:18
Actually, I am a libertarian when it comes to the use of certain drugs. However, other drugs present a danger to society and should not become legal or decriminalized. If certain risks associated with certain diseases weren't prevalent in certain drug cultures, than I would definitely support their right to nullify their own existence. However, the rest of society has to confront the potential for danger imposed on them by drug user's poor decision making and personal hygiene. It does become an epidemiological question, and I don't support the existence of a sub-culture that puts other people at risk. How's that for logic. Now let's hear yours.

Dean
26th July 2006, 06:19
Originally posted by emma_goldman+Jul 26 2006, 02:58 AM--> (emma_goldman @ Jul 26 2006, 02:58 AM)
[email protected] 23 2006, 02:44 PM
Though I do support complete legalization of drugs, I do recognize that their usage is a self-destructive escapism. I do not think that, except in regard to biological health problems, it is responsible to use drugs in most cases.
Does drug use ALWAYS necessitate escapism?

:mellow: [/b]
My point was not concise enough. Drugs intended to modify mental activity are always an escape from some kind of mentality. In a sense they are always self - destructive, because they depress certain aspects of your mind and bring out other ones.

In another sense, medication and self medication can have a positive effect, but almost only in conjunction with a focused attempt at alleviation of those causes which bring one to need the drug. I have never seen a conclusive case of an individual who uses a drug for any purpose but to escape the reality of his mental and / or environmental condition. In severe cases, lifelong drug use may be the best choice, but even in the case of biological mental disorders I think there is often room for drug free treatment, or a treatment that involves a temporary use of drugs.

It's important to note that a lot of other, non - chemical activites act just like drugs, such as obsessions with shopping, religion, political dogma, etc. and are self-destructive forms of escapism from current conditions.

emma_goldman
26th July 2006, 06:20
Originally posted by [email protected] 26 2006, 02:57 AM
Drugs are bad, and they do have a compelling effect on the lives of the user and others. However, imposing restrictions on them and making a black market out of their aquisition makes the knowledge of the drugs vague and simply exacerbates any problem that would occur from drug use.

This guy seems to be a great example the anti-humanist, wishing death upon those who fall victim to the vice. That kind of thinking is much more dangerous for someone than smoking a joint every day would be.

Anyways, Marijuana has some very bad effects and can be very psychologically addictive. I have two close friends that cannot quit. I hope you quit, or at least do not do it regularly.
Marijuana is the least addictive drugs and among the least intoxicating too.

Look at how it compares to other drugs, legal and illegal:
http://www.drugwarfacts.org/addictiv.htm

I should really find that Chomsky interview. It's quite interesting. Chomsky says the war on drugs is really a class war. And that's where legality comes in, not on what is truly the most harmful. ;)

Also... just some things I looked at that are interesting to note.

1) Few marijuana users develop dependence, 9 % of total in one study while 15 % of drinkers become dependent on alcohol, 23 % of heroin users get hooked and a third of tobacco users
2) There is little evidence that it carries a risk of true addiction
3) Heavy use and complaints of inability to stop are unusual
From: http://www.medicalmarijuanaprocon.org/bin/...96.311236304462 (http://www.medicalmarijuanaprocon.org/bin/procon/procon.cgi?database=5-C-Subs-4.db&command=viewone&op=t&id=1&rnd=196.311236304462)

Furthermore,
5) Cannabis does the less harm to the body than amphetamines, alcohol or tobacco

And,
6)In 1972, after reviewing the scientific evidence, the National Commission on Marihuana and Drug Abuse concluded that while marijuana was not entirely safe, its dangers had been grossly overstated. Since then, researchers have conducted thousands of studies of humans, animals, and cell cultures. None reveal any findings dramatically different from those described by the National Commission in 1972. In 1995, based on thirty years of scientific research editors of the British medical journal Lancet concluded that "the smoking of cannabis, even long term, is not harmful to health."
7) None of the medical tests currently used to detect brain damage in humans have found harm from marijuana, even from long term high-dose use. An early study reported brain damage in rhesus monkeys after six months exposure to high concentrations of marijuana smoke. In a recent, more carefully conducted study, researchers found no evidence of brain abnormality in monkeys that were forced to inhale the equivalent of four to five marijuana cigarettes every day for a year. The claim that marijuana kills brain cells is based on a speculative report dating back a quarter of a century that has never been supported by any scientific study.
8) For twenty-five years, researchers have searched for a marijuana-induced amotivational syndrome and have failed to find it. People who are intoxicated constantly, regardless of the drug, are unlikely to be productive members of society. There is nothing about marijuana specifically that causes people to lose their drive and ambition. In laboratory studies, subjects given high doses of marijuana for several days or even several weeks exhibit no decrease in work motivation or productivity. Among working adults, marijuana users tend to earn higher wages than non-users. College students who use marijuana have the same grades as nonusers. Among high school students, heavy use is associated with school failure, but school failure usually comes first.
9)There is no convincing scientific evidence that marijuana causes psychological damage or mental illness in either teenagers or adults. Some marijuana users experience psychological distress following marijuana ingestion, which may include feelings of panic, anxiety, and paranoia. Such experiences can be frightening, but the effects are temporary. With very large doses, marijuana can cause temporary toxic psychosis. This occurs rarely, and almost always when marijuana is eaten rather than smoked. Marijuana does not cause profound changes in people's behavior.
From: http://www.drugpolicy.org/marijuana/factsmyths/

Etcetera. Etcetera.

Psychologically addictive, I don't know, maybe, but certainly not to the dramatized extent most people think. Don't they actually say chocolate is psychologically addictive? :lol:

Another interesting thing to research is marijuana related arrests... ;)

Really silly.

chimx
26th July 2006, 06:22
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/meth/art/bodyp0.jpg

i work with a lot of people who have teeth like that from meth use. i caught one of the addicts i work with huffing industrial glue from a 5 gallon bucket today in fact. recreational drugs are addictive and rarely healthy.

emma_goldman
26th July 2006, 06:25
Originally posted by General [email protected] 26 2006, 03:19 AM
However, other drugs present a danger to society and should not become legal or decriminalized. If certain risks associated with certain diseases weren't prevalent in certain drug cultures, than I would definitely support their right to nullify their own existence. However, the rest of society has to confront the potential for danger imposed on them by drug user's poor decision making and personal hygiene. It does become an epidemiological question, and I don't support the existence of a sub-culture that puts other people at risk. How's that for logic. Now let's hear yours.
Just clarifying..

Other drugs, such as...?

:)

emma_goldman
26th July 2006, 06:39
Originally posted by [email protected] 26 2006, 03:20 AM
My point was not concise enough. Drugs intended to modify mental activity are always an escape from some kind of mentality. In a sense they are always self - destructive, because they depress certain aspects of your mind and bring out other ones.

In another sense, medication and self medication can have a positive effect, but almost only in conjunction with a focused attempt at alleviation of those causes which bring one to need the drug. I have never seen a conclusive case of an individual who uses a drug for any purpose but to escape the reality of his mental and / or environmental condition. In severe cases, lifelong drug use may be the best choice, but even in the case of biological mental disorders I think there is often room for drug free treatment, or a treatment that involves a temporary use of drugs.

It's important to note that a lot of other, non - chemical activites act just like drugs, such as obsessions with shopping, religion, political dogma, etc. and are self-destructive forms of escapism from current conditions.
Great explanation. And very logical. ;)

Is there ever any situation where you think it is OK for someone can engage in a temporary escape and perhaps, use drugs?

Just curious. :)

LSD
26th July 2006, 06:43
Actually, I am a libertarian when it comes to the use of certain drugs. However, other drugs present a danger to society and should not become legal or decriminalized.

So you're a libertarian ...but you support prohibition. How does that work exactly?

Who are you to determine which drugs are "good" and which ones are "bad"? Isn't that what the "market" is for? Shouldn't we "trust" in economic "forces" take care of the problem for us? :rolleyes:

It always amuses me how cappies are so resoundingly pro free market except when it might lead to people actually doing what they want. Then suddenly "big government" ain't so evil any more. Whether it's homosexuality, drugs, abortion, whatever, all these so-called "freedom loving" right-wingers can't wait to use the big foot of government to enforce their own personal petty morality.

What I want to injest into my body is my business and I'll thank you, George Bush, and Stephen Harper to stay the fuck out of it. The contents of my brain are for me and me alone to determine.

Dean
26th July 2006, 06:47
Originally posted by [email protected] 26 2006, 03:21 AM
Marijuana is the least addictive drugs and among the least intoxicating too.

People who are intoxicated constantly, regardless of the drug, are unlikely to be productive members of society.
I agree that it is one of the least addictive drugs, but that is irrelevant when one with an addictive personality stumbles upon it. Seriously, One of those friends I mentioned tells me every time that I see him that he wishes he could quit. He tried going to NA but it was all religious bullshit and didn't help him. One time he drew a picture of a hand that looked like a marijuana leaf clutching onto a brain. I don't think the general level of addictiveness comes into play when one does get addicted, and if someone does it regularly he seems by definition to be an addict.

Furthermore, I am a psychological addict to intoxication of any form. I only recently quit weed, but other, legal drugs have taken its place. Some people need weed specifically, though. I think that one day I will be able to shrug off the addictions and use only the drugs I need to alleviate my headaches and muscle spasms, but as for now I know clearly what it's like to have a mentality that encourages self-destruction.

In regards to weed causing mental disorders, I think it only brings out previously latent neuroses due to how it affects the mind. I found myself drastically changed, in good and bad ways, when I started using daily, and those changes have stayed with me. They were generally good, but in regards to the friend I referred to, he became really messed up in how he thinks.

And the health issues are overstated, but that doesn't mean that they aren't there. Comparing them to other drugs is like comparing Bush to Blair. Both cocksuckers.

emma_goldman
26th July 2006, 06:48
Originally posted by [email protected] 21 2006, 08:04 AM
There are certain druge Id support legalizing such as marajuana but things like heroine never. Addictive drugs especially. Alcahol is already a risky product for many people. In my case I have cases of alcaholism on both sides of my family. Ive seen the sadness addiction creates and the utter waste of life it produces. Just thinking about it makes me sad... Though I have 2 stikes against me I do drink but I am responcible about it. Marajuana is not physically addicting but Its something I dont care to use. I think a real manly polock like my self who can stomach crappy vodka is a better goal accomplished and taking a few puffs....no offense... But yes i dont mind its legalization.
Yeah, but how well did Prohibition work?

Not well.

And to whom was Prohibition primarily directed against?

The lower classes. Just as it is today.

I support legalization of every drug.

Also, legalize drugs and crime goes down. You can regulate the drug market and keep users from stealing the money, and maybe violently stealing the money. Ciggerete smokers generally don't steal to maintain their habit, because it is legalized they can get it for cheaper.

Plus, like has been noted, legalization makes things safer. :D

BTW, I have to post separately because I don't know how to quote multiple people in one post. Gah. :lol:

DRUG USE is a SOCIAL issue NOT a CRIMINAL JUSTICE one. ;)

Dean
26th July 2006, 06:53
Originally posted by [email protected] 26 2006, 03:44 AM
I always amuses me how cappies are so resoundingly pro free market except when it might lead to people actually doing what they want. Then suddenly "big government" ain't so evil any more. Whether it's homosexuality, drugs, abortion, whatever, all these so-called "freedom loving" right-wingers can't wait to use the big foot of government to enforce their own personal petty morality.
What's more frightening in my view is that the right wing libertarians support freedom when it comes to non-economic issues, but almost never seem to give a damn about it when they talk of libertarianism. To them, the market is god, above even human rights.

Take this fucked - up post in the LJ libertarian community, for example: http://community.livejournal.com/libertari...29556#t49129556 (http://community.livejournal.com/libertarianism/1702740.html?view=49129556#t49129556)

I've never seen them post a link to Amnesty International (I'm ninboydean there btw).

General Patton
26th July 2006, 06:56
Just clarifying..

Other drugs, such as...?

Methamphetamine and Heroine for starters.

Dean
26th July 2006, 07:04
Originally posted by [email protected] 26 2006, 03:40 AM
Great explanation. And very logical. ;)

Is there ever any situation where you think it is OK for someone can engage in a temporary escape and perhaps, use drugs?

Just curious. :)
Well, yes. Because drug use is always an escape, I think it's almost always a wrong to yourself to use them. However, I think it can be responsible to drug oneself if it serves a productive end which will temporarily involve drug use. And there are always cases where the mentality is so severely damaged, biologically or not, that prolonged to permanent drug use can serve the best end. I find both cases unfortunate, but plausible.

Eleutherios
26th July 2006, 07:06
Originally posted by General [email protected] 26 2006, 03:19 AM
Actually, I am a libertarian when it comes to the use of certain drugs. However, other drugs present a danger to society and should not become legal or decriminalized. If certain risks associated with certain diseases weren't prevalent in certain drug cultures, than I would definitely support their right to nullify their own existence. However, the rest of society has to confront the potential for danger imposed on them by drug user's poor decision making and personal hygiene. It does become an epidemiological question, and I don't support the existence of a sub-culture that puts other people at risk. How's that for logic. Now let's hear yours.
How about actually doing something to help people instead of locking them up. Drug addicts are sick, they're not criminals. We should treat them like human beings. Give them education, teach them the safest possible way to use the drug, teach them about the health hazards in a rational non-condescending manner, and give them a place to go if they want to quit without worrying about getting thrown in jail. Poor decision making and personal hygiene are not reasons to incarcerate someone; only if they harm someone else or put them in danger should they be punished, and then punish them for whatever they did instead of what was in their system. If they voluntarily took an intoxicating drug and did something stupid like drive a car or kill somebody, then it's still their personal responsibility for doing whatever they did.

But if you actually knew about people who do drugs, you'd realize that in the vast majority of cases, when people get high they typically don't stop bathing or hurt other people. In fact, taking showers high is pretty fun. Unless of course, the bourgeois police force finds out I'm taking a shower high, in which case they might send me to live in a dank dirty jail cell with violent criminals in an environment where I am not loved and I am treated like a worthless piece of shit every day. That'll sure cure me of my habit, and prevent me from becoming a menace to society once I get out and can't find a job!

emma_goldman
27th July 2006, 22:33
An interesting piece of news concerning medical marijuana is occuring now in South Dakota. See here:

http://www.mpp.org/site/c.glKZLeMQIsG/b.18...ot_Language.htm (http://www.mpp.org/site/c.glKZLeMQIsG/b.1886485/k.4396/Biased_South_Dakota_Ballot_Language.htm)

Thought it would be good to note here. ;)