Check Out This Aparthied State!

[theraven]

Distorting Israeli Arab Reality

AFP, LA Times and Christian Science Monitor misrepresent Israeli policy toward its minority Arab citizens

The co-existence of Jewish and Arab citizens of Israel has long been a model for the potential for democratic pluralism to take root in the Mideast. But rather than publicize this encouraging fact, the major media outlets have repeatedly distorted the status of Israel's Arab community.

When Arab players on Israel's national soccer team scored key goals in recent international matches, AFP turned a positive news story on its head with this highly editorialized line:

Israeli by nationality, Palestinians at heart, Israel's 1.2 million Arabs, descendants of those who remained on their land after the Jewish state was created in 1948, are treated as second class citizens.

And here's the latest: An op-ed column denouncing Israeli policy toward its Arab minority was published in the Los Angeles Times (May 11) and The Christian Science Monitor (May 17). The author, Aaron David Miller, laments 'the predicament of Israel's own Arab citizens', claiming:


read the rest here (http://www.honestreporting.com/articles/45884734/critiques/Distorting_Israeli_Arab_Reality.asp)

[Janus]

Your title is misleading

The author of the article is trying to prove that the accusations of discrimination in Israel are false.

[Severian]

So we learn from your article: the Christian Science Monitor, the LA Times, and Agence France-Presse - all respected, even staid establishment media - report that Israel discriminates against Palestinians holding Israeli citizens. Some people refuse to believe it anyway.

(That Israel discriminates over Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, by ruling over them for decades without granting them any citizenship rights, is undisputed. Some people try to justify it, but not dispute it.)

[theraven]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2006, 04:50 AM
Your title is misleading

The author of the article is trying to prove that the accusations of discrimination in Israel are false.
it was sarcasam

[theraven]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2006, 06:51 AM
So we learn from your article: the Christian Science Monitor, the LA Times, and Agence France-Presse - all respected, even staid establishment media - report that Israel discriminates against Palestinians holding Israeli citizens. Some people refuse to believe it anyway.

(That Israel discriminates over Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, by ruling over them for decades without granting them any citizenship rights, is undisputed. Some people try to justify it, but not dispute it.)
and what we learned was what they said wasn't true, at least nto if you look at the facts.

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by theraven+Jul 19 2006, 11:00 AM--> (theraven @ Jul 19 2006, 11:00 AM)
[email protected] 19 2006, 06:51 AM
So we learn from your article: the Christian Science Monitor, the LA Times, and Agence France-Presse - all respected, even staid establishment media - report that Israel discriminates against Palestinians holding Israeli citizens. Some people refuse to believe it anyway.

(That Israel discriminates over Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, by ruling over them for decades without granting them any citizenship rights, is undisputed. Some people try to justify it, but not dispute it.)
and what we learned was what they said wasn't true, at least nto if you look at the facts. [/b]
From this one site? :lol: This pro-Israel site as well, isn't that interesting? Of course they wouldn't lie heaven forbid. Interesting how those 'corrections' links don't actually go anywhere - or were those articles removed by the massive arabic conspiracy :rolleyes: .

[theraven]

Originally posted by Jazzratt+Jul 19 2006, 11:49 AM--> (Jazzratt @ Jul 19 2006, 11:49 AM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2006, 11:00 AM

[email protected] 19 2006, 06:51 AM
So we learn from your article: the Christian Science Monitor, the LA Times, and Agence France-Presse - all respected, even staid establishment media - report that Israel discriminates against Palestinians holding Israeli citizens. Some people refuse to believe it anyway.

(That Israel discriminates over Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, by ruling over them for decades without granting them any citizenship rights, is undisputed. Some people try to justify it, but not dispute it.)
and what we learned was what they said wasn't true, at least nto if you look at the facts.
From this one site? :lol: This pro-Israel site as well, isn't that interesting? Of course they wouldn't lie heaven forbid. Interesting how those 'corrections' links don't actually go anywhere - or were those articles removed by the massive arabic conspiracy :rolleyes: . [/b]
1) yes its a pro-israel site? so? you lot expect me to take Ai seriously

2) if the ilnks don't go anywhere it could be the fact that I doubt those papers keep everyithn gon the web ad infitum

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by theraven+Jul 19 2006, 12:00 PM--> (theraven @ Jul 19 2006, 12:00 PM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2006, 11:49 AM

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2006, 11:00 AM

[email protected] 19 2006, 06:51 AM
So we learn from your article: the Christian Science Monitor, the LA Times, and Agence France-Presse - all respected, even staid establishment media - report that Israel discriminates against Palestinians holding Israeli citizens. Some people refuse to believe it anyway.

(That Israel discriminates over Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, by ruling over them for decades without granting them any citizenship rights, is undisputed. Some people try to justify it, but not dispute it.)
and what we learned was what they said wasn't true, at least nto if you look at the facts.
From this one site? :lol: This pro-Israel site as well, isn't that interesting? Of course they wouldn't lie heaven forbid. Interesting how those 'corrections' links don't actually go anywhere - or were those articles removed by the massive arabic conspiracy :rolleyes: .
1) yes its a pro-israel site? so? you lot expect me to take Ai seriously

2) if the ilnks don't go anywhere it could be the fact that I doubt those papers keep everyithn gon the web ad infitum [/b]
1) Oh you mean we expect you to take a neutrel humaitarian organisation seriously. Think through what you're saying.

2) It's still odd that something so recent has fallen off their servers.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

More apologism for the state of Isreal? Take your head out of your arse.

[theraven]

More apologism for the state of Isreal? Take your head out of your arse.

that was done quite a while ago, now get yours out of the sand.



1) Oh you mean we expect you to take a neutrel humaitarian organisation seriously. Think through what you're saying.

yea that nuetral george soros funded group :roll:


2) It's still odd that something so recent has fallen off their servers.

I can't speak to their policy regarding how long they keep things up.

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2006, 03:17 PM

More apologism for the state of Isreal? Take your head out of your arse.

that was done quite a while ago, now get yours out of the sand.

Says the Isreal supporting cappie :lol:





1) Oh you mean we expect you to take a neutrel humaitarian organisation seriously. Think through what you're saying.

yea that nuetral george soros funded group :roll:

Oh shit it recieves funding! Even my cappie friend knows AI are neutral.





2) It's still odd that something so recent has fallen off their servers.

I can't speak to their policy regarding how long they keep things up. Fair enough.

[theraven]

Says the Isreal supporting cappie laugh.gif


is that supposed to be an insult?



Oh shit it recieves funding! Even my cappie friend knows AI are neutral.

you have friends?

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2006, 03:40 PM


Says the Isreal supporting cappie laugh.gif


is that supposed to be an insult?
No it was supposed be a statement of fact. It also shows how bankrupt your position is - you ahve your head up your arse and your arse in the sand and anyone with half a brain can see that.





Oh shit it recieves funding! Even my cappie friend knows AI are neutral.

you have friends? Do want a prize for that fucking obvious 'gem'?

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2006, 03:17 PM

More apologism for the state of Isreal? Take your head out of your arse.

that was done quite a while ago, now get yours out of the sand.
Jenin Massacre. Bulldozing Palestinian homes. Over 100 civilian deaths in Lebanon thanks to indiscriminate "scorched earth" tactics that make no sense against a terrorist group that integrates within the civilian population. Just three of the atrocities that Isreal has committed and gone unpunished for, yet you support them.

Now either it is you with your head in the sand or you're a morally bankrupt piece of shit.

Which is it?

[theraven]

No it was supposed be a statement of fact. It also shows how bankrupt your position is - you ahve your head up your arse and your arse in the sand and anyone with half a brain can see that.


how does it show how bankrupt my position is? being capitlist and pro -israeli is a very legetiamtie position.


Jenin Massacre.

that was a fake...


Bulldozing Palestinian homes.

built illegeally or used by terrorists


Over 100 civilian deaths in Lebanon thanks to indiscriminate "scorched earth" tactics that make no sense against a terrorist group that integrates within the civilian population.

the bombing is heavy, but not at that level. if it was the caustlies would be a lot higher. and yes there are civilians there, but whos fault is that?

Just three of the atrocities that Isreal has committed and gone unpunished for, yet you support them.

Now either it is you with your head in the sand or you're a morally bankrupt piece of shit.

Which is it?

[Janus]

that was a fake...
According to your sources of course. :rolleyes:


built illegeally or used by terrorists
How can someone build an illegal home in their own property? I thought you capitalists wanted protection of private property. And what about the illegal Israeli settlements? They are legal while the Palestinians homes in their own lands are not?


and yes there are civilians there, but whos fault is that?
The Israeli armed forces?

[theraven]

According to your sources of course. rolleyes.gif


accoridng to facts. if you like i can look it up, ubt its been a while.



How can someone build an illegal home in their own property? I thought you capitalists wanted protection of private property. And what about the illegal Israeli settlements? They are legal while the Palestinians homes in their own lands are not?


most houses torn down lacked permits.



The Israeli armed forces?

no, hezbollah for opeating out of such a poulated area.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

that was a fake...

Because as we all know, when you start shooting powerful weapons in a refugee camp nobody gets hurt :rolleyes:


built illegeally or used by terrorists

Then it was morally incumbent on Isreal to provide new homes for them. But they didn't do that. And bulldozing people's homes does not reduce the problem, it only means they have to move.


the bombing is heavy, but not at that level. if it was the caustlies would be a lot higher. and yes there are civilians there, but whos fault is that?

The people who are shelling the civilians. Who could they be, I wonder... maybe... the Isreali Army? :o

[Janus]

if you like i can look it up, ubt its been a while.
If it's Jewish World Review, then don't bother.


most houses torn down lacked permits.
And that's the Israeli's business because? Also, the Israelis can accuse any house of being a refuge for terrorists or blow it up to move around during their operations.


no, hezbollah for opeating out of such a poulated area.
Hezbollah operates in a lot of areas but they do not fire rockets or attack Israelis in a populated area. Still, why attack civilian targets that have nothing to do with Hezbollah?

[KC]

Time for someone to pull up Free Palestine's posts...

[theraven]

If it's Jewish World Review, then don't bother.

how the NYT? its not a full article (gotta pay for that) but it includes this tid bit
found ( here: http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.htm...DA10894DA404482 (http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F20E17FC355F0C718CDDA10894DA4044 82)
)

The United Nations issued a cautious report today dismissing as unsubstantiated Palestinian claims that 500 people were killed when Israeli forces invaded a refugee camp in the West Bank city of Jenin in April. Stepping gingerly into a battle waged almost as fiercely in public relations as it was...



And that's the Israeli's business because? Also, the Israelis can accuse any house of being a refuge for terrorists or blow it up to move around during their operations.

because their the government?



Hezbollah operates in a lot of areas but they do not fire rockets or attack Israelis in a populated area. Still, why attack civilian targets that have nothing to do with Hezbollah?

when did they do that?

[theraven]

Because as we all know, when you start shooting powerful weapons in a refugee camp nobody gets hurt rolleyes.gif


oh people will get hurt, but i imagine most of them were combantats



Then it was morally incumbent on Isreal to provide new homes for them. But they didn't do that. And bulldozing people's homes does not reduce the problem, it only means they have to move.


1) why should israel pay them for something that they did ilegeal
2) what problem is that?



The people who are shelling the civilians. Who could they be, I wonder... maybe... the Isreali Army? ohmy.gif

actually their bombing, its from air planes. so its the IAF whos doing the bombing. but no its hezbollahs ofr attackiing from a civilian populated lace

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

oh people will get hurt, but i imagine most of them were combantats

And what about collateral damage? the 5.56mm NATO (As used by the Isreali Army) is deadly for up to a kilometre.

And that's just standard assault rifle rounds and not any other weapon deployed.


1) why should israel pay them for something that they did ilegeal

Because it's the moral, civilised thing to do? But I suppose it's better to make people homeless than try to house them.


2) what problem is that?

The problem of suicide bombing and general violence against Isrealis. It's ineffective and causes unnecessary suffering. Were you born this dense or did you take training?


actually their bombing, its from air planes. so its the IAF whos doing the bombing.

Oh look, a pointless nitpick! :rolleyes: Then end result is the same: Dead civilians.


but no its hezbollahs ofr attackiing from a civilian populated lace

Then you send in troops, not go on an indiscriminate bombing campaign. You're a total turd if you think bombing civilian areas is OK.

[theraven]

And what about collateral damage? the 5.56mm NATO (As used by the Isreali Army) is deadly for up to a kilometre.

And that's just standard assault rifle rounds and not any other weapon deployed.

yes, but thats the danger of hiding your armed forces in a civilain area.



Because it's the moral, civilised thing to do? But I suppose it's better to make people homeless than try to house them.


no, and maybe israel has some housing prgoram for them, but its not israesl job if they build their homes illegeall.




The problem of suicide bombing and general violence against Isrealis. It's ineffective and causes unnecessary suffering. Were you born this dense or did you take training?

its point is to enforce the law,not stop terrorists



Then you send in troops, not go on an indiscriminate bombing campaign. You're a total turd if you think bombing civilian areas is OK.

well theres a risk of civilain deaths there to. israel is bombing because it can target things better, and this way its troops are less exposed

[Janus]

because their the government?
Of Israel and not the West Bank or the Gaza Strip even though they may act like it.


when did they do that?
The Israelis have hit mainly civilian targets and killed mainly civilians.

[theraven]

Of Israel and not the West Bank or the Gaza Strip even though they may act like it.

Well the houses that are kncoekd down are mostly in areas in israel itself, or very near by.

[Janus]

yes, but thats the danger of hiding your armed forces in a civilain area.
Hezbollah is a political organization so some of its members will be in civilian areas.


but its not israesl job if they build their homes illegeall.
It's not their business even if the homes are illegal.


israel is bombing because it can target things better, and this way its troops are less exposed
OK, I understand why they want to use the air force but why do you support their targeting of civilians? Also, the IDF is moving into Lebanon now.

[theraven]

Hezbollah is a political organization so some of its members will be in civilian areas.

yes but its also a military orginzaiotn. with very little distincaiont i undersetand



It's not their business even if the homes are illegal.

what do you mean of corse it si. they are the government.



OK, I understand why they want to use the air force but why do you support their targeting of civilians? Also, the IDF is moving into Lebanon now.

1) be more specifica bout the civilan targets

2) yes, they are now trying to recover the priosners, as well as destroy the rocket and other arms cahces.

[Janus]

yes but its also a military orginzaiotn. with very little distincaiont i undersetand
I couldn't catch the last part. I've always wondered why the capitalists here are plagued with an inability to spell properly. Yeah, they have a military wing so they may have some military members in the cities.


what do you mean of corse it si. they are the government.
They are not the government in charge of West Bank and the Gaza Strip. So you think it's ok for Israelis to have illegal settlements in Palestinian areas?


1) be more specifica bout the civilan targets
They have targeted the airport and many other buildings and infrastructure that have nothing to do with Hezbollah.

2) yes, they are now trying to recover the priosners, as well as destroy the rocket and other arms cahces.
I have heard nothing of hitting arms caches and I doubt that the Israelis could even find them unless they actually move into Lebanon.

[theraven]

I couldn't catch the last part. I've always wondered why the capitalists here are plagued with an inability to spell properly. Yeah, they have a military wing so they may have some military members in the cities.

i said there was litttle distinction between the miliary an dpolitical wings.



They are not the government in charge of West Bank and the Gaza Strip. So you think it's ok for Israelis to have illegal settlements in Palestinian areas?


they for a time were the government in charge of those areas,a nd still mainting military control.



They have targeted the airport and many other buildings and infrastructure that have nothing to do with Hezbollah.

so hezbollah doesnt' use air ports or electiricty :rolleyes:



I have heard nothing of hitting arms caches and I doubt that the Israelis could even find them unless they actually move into Lebanon.

which you said they were here



OK, I understand why they want to use the air force but why do you support their targeting of civilians? Also, the IDF is moving into Lebanon now.

[Janus]

i said there was litttle distinction between the miliary an dpolitical wings.
But it is also a legitimate political force in Lebanon.


they for a time were the government in charge of those areas,a nd still mainting military control.
I state again: it's something that the PA should deal with and not the Israelis if someone doesn't have a permit.


so hezbollah doesnt' use air ports or electiricty
They do but there have also been attacks on building which have nothing to do with Hezbollah. Besides, just because some members use it doesn't make it a legitimate target since they are mainly for civilians.


which you said they were here
Yeah, just recently.

[theraven]

But it is also a legitimate political force in Lebanon.

sure, but that doesnt make them invulenrabel form attacks, though it does jsutify attacking lbeanon itself..



I state again: it's something that the PA should deal with and not the Israelis if someone doesn't have a permit.


if its on israeli land...?



They do but there have also been attacks on building which have nothing to do with Hezbollah. Besides, just because some members use it doesn't make it a legitimate target since they are mainly for civilians.

examples


Yeah, just recently.

so your point was??