Buddhism:

[Ol' Dirty]

In the various forms of Buddhism--Theravada, Mahayana (especially Pure Land and Zen), and Vajrayana--the notion of transcendence is of more difficult application. Except for Pure Land and Vajrayana (where a certain return to Hindu-like personifications of the spiritual world is countenanced), the role played by transcendent beings is minimal and at most a temporary expedient. The notion closest to transcendence, much in the spirit of Western "theologia negativa", is perhaps that of shunyata (emptiness, void). Suffice it to say that one of the marks which set Buddhism apart from Hinduism in the beginning, and continues to serve as distinctive, is its reluctance to allow language to approach or speak of transcendence. For many, this appears to amount to atheism; for others, it would be better termed agnosticim. At any rate, for the Buddhist, if anything ultimate or transcendent is to be "known" at all, it would have to be directly experienced and not talked about, and that is the end of it.

wikipedia.org

This is not the most religious thing I've ever heard. :rolleyes:

What I'm tring to say is this: Buddhism is with complete lack of the belief omnipotence, omniscience or omniverescence of any being, case closed. I see no reason to believe, with all good intent, that Buddhism is a religion, if it is agnostic -even atheist!- The complete lack of an eternal spirt is, to me non-theistic enough to classify it as a non-religion.

Case in point:

Buddhism is not a religion, but a philosophy.

[Janus]

Buddhism is not a religion, but a philosophy.
It is both. Buddhism revolves around a doctrine that has sacred or divine elements in it including a moral code,etc. This is enough to classify it as a religion. There are Buddhist monks after all though I hear that a lot of them no longer follow the moral codes and rules like they used to.

[Ol' Dirty]

Believe nothing ! Belief is a confession of ignorance !
Therefore do not even believe what even I tell you !
All I can do is to teach you to enlighten yourselves.
Your first duty is to abolish your ignorance,
and only you yourselves can do this
--Buddha[FONT=Arial]

Buddhism is not a belief system, per say, but an acceptance of impermanece in our lives. Thusly, it is not a religion, but a mindset. There is no faith involved.

[Comrade J]

I just finished Buddhism for my AS-Levels. They believe in the 'Wheel Of Life' which has a 'realm of the Gods' in it. Although it should be noted many (perhaps most?) Buddhists see this realm as a mental state making it harder to achieve enlightenment due to the lack of Dukkha (suffering/unsatisfactoriness) - many do see it as a physical realm into which one can be born in rebirth.

Buddhists dont believe in 'reincarnation' as they don't believe anything is passed on into the next life, as they don't believe in any permanent self (anatta)... so some Buddhists do in fact believe in Gods, but they don't believe them to necessarily be omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent and omnibenevolent.

Also, one group of Buddhists ask certain Boddhisatvas to guide them, and believe they do.

It's a religion.

[Ali.Cat]

I think it's important to remember that Buddhism has many different faces. I would categorize it as a religion only because there are ways of taking it to the side of faith. I've read that many practicing Buddhists are encouraged to chant regularily for the achievement of specific goals, which, when are achieved, are used as proof of the "devine power" Buddhism holds. Chanting therefore is used in the same way prayer is used in Christianity - is it not? Buddhists believe in a higher power just like any other religion, they just don't attempt to put a face to that power.

The seventh Dalai Lama, Tenzin Gyatso said in The Buddhism of Tibet and the Key to the Middle Way;
"The reason why we should engage in religious practice is that no matter how much material progress there is, it alone cannot generate adequate and lasting pleasure. Indeed, the more we progress materially, the more we have to live in constant fear and anxiety (15)."

He defines Buddhism as a religion as well. The Dalai Lama said that without religious devotion life is not complete (a total load of crap - but he is defining it as religion).

[Ol' Dirty]

It all depends on which sect you're talking about, really.

To Janus, I think that Buddhism isn't both, but can be both, each depending on the person. Personal, I hold no faith in Buddhism. I only like some of it's better aspects.

[violencia.Proletariat]

Muigwithania, buddhism, religion or not has no relevance to most people. Communists aren't going to accept your shitty philosophy/religion. GET OVER IT.

[Zero]

I practice Buddhist meditation, as it has been practiced for centuries and centuries. It has proven effects on sharpening your concious thought patterns, and I can also feel the effects of centering myself on a daily basis. I also do go on Buddhist retreats every now and then to meditate in the deep wilderness.

Call me a Hippie, but it has really helped me break out of the systems of control instituted by the state. :)

[thebeautyofrevolution]

Buddhism has many forms. Many of you are looking at the most common form of Buddhism. Another form not only follows the teachings of Sidhartha, but view him as a god. This form of Buddhism is therefore a Religion using the definitions you have provided.

But, Marxism teaches that the definition automatically given that only covers the surface is not the way to think. What makes something a religion, I believe, is not the belief in an omnipotent being, but instead the way a person lives their life, following a certain set of ideals.

[thebeautyofrevolution]

“Religion is the impotence of the human mind to deal with occurrences it cannot understand”
Karl Marx quote

[Severian]

Buddhism: are we talking about what's actually been practiced by millions of people for thousands of years, or about Wikipedia definitions probably written by Western converts?

If it's the former, then Buddhism is definitely a religion, and one that's particularly committed to maintaining the status quo. It has a clergy which preaches to the peasants that they should patiently endure their karma. Desire something different? Desire is the source of suffering.

In the West, also, it's largely been practiced in a similar way. (http://web.archive.org/web/20050204104913/http://www.american-buddha.com/fist.wisdom.htm) The gurus frequently demand (and get) absolute obedience from the "students". It's teachings are to be accepted on faith. That's the whole appeal: it promises certainty.

That's what religion is all about: not gods primarily (though god, Boddhisattva, tomato, tomahto) but faith.

A good article examining Buddhism's claims to be consistent with science, rationality, and the modern world. (http://web.archive.org/web/20050204100057/www.american-buddha.com/can't.embrace.htm#WHY%20I%20CANT%20EMBRACE%20BUDDH ISM)

[Janus]

It has a clergy which preaches to the peasants that they should patiently endure their karma
Like I've said, some of those monks no longer even follow "the way". :lol:

[thebeautyofrevolution]

The entire idea that religions have to include Gods is a completely western idea that should be abholished.

[Janus]

It's not completely Western. Hinduism and Buddhism are much older than Christianity which was founded in the East after all (Middle East).

[thebeautyofrevolution]

But the first forms of Christianity were not like the forms today. Many did not believe Christ was a savior. The Western Christian Ideology i speak of was a predjudice started in the west towards all eastern and middle eastern religions.

[Janus]

Well, Christianity seems to have been developed so as to make religion more personal and more accessible to the people. Back then, the practices enforced by the Pharisees were quite complex.

[thebeautyofrevolution]

Are you saying that a person truly passionate about a religion has to have it made easily accesable, making legions of people say that they are a part of the religion yet dont practice?

[Janus]

No, I am not arguing for religion. I was simply responding to your post and stating one of the reasons why Christianity was found and became popular.

[Comrade J]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2006, 04:57 AM
I practice Buddhist meditation, as it has been practiced for centuries and centuries. It has proven effects on sharpening your concious thought patterns, and I can also feel the effects of centering myself on a daily basis. I also do go on Buddhist retreats every now and then to meditate in the deep wilderness.

Call me a Hippie, but it has really helped me break out of the systems of control instituted by the state. :)
That's cool, I'd love to try that, I haven't had much luck with meditation thus far though :(

[Zero]

Well if you want to get into doing it every day... start small. Try sitting still for 10 minutes, and keep your eyes closed, and mind open once a week. Maybe next month try it two days, or next week or whatever. Whenever a thought passes into your head, just let it go. Release it away from your thought process. Some people can keep their mind busy buy counting their breaths so they won't think of other thoughts. I started by keeping a low constant note flowing in my imagination.

I bet you anything that if you take Riddlen pills, or anti-ADD pills, you can meditate instead of digesting that shit. I bet you it will work faster, it will work longer, and your mental chemistry won't be all fogged up because of the drugs.

However natural drugs I'm all for. Essential oils, Insense, Marijuana... I bet you guys didn't know that many different forms of Cancer can be treated and even cured through herbal remities. Another "boon" of privatised drug companies ehh?

[Eleutherios]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2006, 12:55 AM
I bet you anything that if you take Riddlen pills, or anti-ADD pills, you can meditate instead of digesting that shit. I bet you it will work faster, it will work longer, and your mental chemistry won't be all fogged up because of the drugs.
I would suggest not doing any drugs you are so ignorant of that you can't even spell them properly.

[Zero]

-.-;

Fine then, spelling NAZI.

Riddlin*

[Eleutherios]

It's Ritalin. And I'm not saying don't do it, I'm just saying it might be wise to do a little research first.

[thebeautyofrevolution]

Let us not delve from the subject of meditation onto the use and spelling of certain prescription drugs. Drugs shouldn't be used to achieve meditation, because that would negate the medatation in the first place. Anyway, the Buddha did not use Ritalin, so why should one trying to be a Buddhist and follow his path?

[Severian]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2006, 10:33 AM

It has a clergy which preaches to the peasants that they should patiently endure their karma
Like I've said, some of those monks no longer even follow "the way". :lol:
That's typical. When has the clergy of any religion actually practiced what it preaches?

[Black Dagger]

Originally posted by Severian+Jul 20 2006, 05:37 PM--> (Severian @ Jul 20 2006, 05:37 PM)
[email protected] 19 2006, 10:33 AM

It has a clergy which preaches to the peasants that they should patiently endure their karma
Like I've said, some of those monks no longer even follow "the way". :lol:
That's typical. When has the clergy of any religion actually practiced what it preaches? [/b]

Oldy but a goody:

All the buddhist monks i know have ipods, and hang around with ruling class malays, rather funny actually.


In melbourne,
-Monks on the tram with snazzy phones (camera and all)

In Malaysia
-Monks chatting away on msn with friends in australia
-Monks with Ipods

The first one was with my own eyes, the second is from pictures from the blog of one of someone one of my friends met at uni.

Rich malayasian family, her father is a 'knight' or something idiotic, they even had some high-up rimpoche over for dinner! Although her family is 'buddhist', she's one of the most materialistic people i've ever met (well ive only met her once, just looking at her blog is enough!), 'spoilt rich girl'- a caricature. None of this seemed to bother the monks or the rimpoche, maybe it was the ipods.

Picture of one of said monks playing with his phone (http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/2643/img1740aq9.jpg)

picture of one of said monks chilling in ruling class abode (http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/8765/img1773hn0.jpg)

[Vinny Rafarino]

I bet you anything that if you take Riddlen pills, or anti-ADD pills, you can meditate instead of digesting that shit. I bet you it will work faster, it will work longer, and your mental chemistry won't be all fogged up because of the drugs.

For those of you that suffer from some neurochemical disorder and are actually considering ceasing your intake of your prescribed medications in exchange for "meditation" please, for your own sake, do not listen to this quack; listen to your doctor.

[Janus]

Oldy but a goody:

All the buddhist monks i know have ipods, and hang around with ruling class malays, rather funny actually.


In melbourne,
-Monks on the tram with snazzy phones (camera and all)

In Malaysia
-Monks chatting away on msn with friends in australia
-Monks with Ipods

The first one was with my own eyes, the second is from pictures from the blog of one of someone one of my friends met at uni.

Rich malayasian family, her father is a 'knight' or something idiotic, they even had some high-up rimpoche over for dinner! Although her family is 'buddhist', she's one of the most materialistic people i've ever met (well ive only met her once, just looking at her blog is enough!), 'spoilt rich girl'- a caricature. None of this seemed to bother the monks or the rimpoche, maybe it was the ipods.

Forget that. Some of the monks in China have families and eat meat. :o

[ichneumon]

Many doctors will advise meditation. Meditation is 100% impossible under the influence of dopanimergic drugs. This includes nicotine.

Buddhism and freedom from addiction flat out cured my "problems". How the hell can you expect to be sane when you take a hammer to your brain ever few hours? Spend a week meditating and eating lowfat veggie foods. What can it hurt?

Buddhism is my religion. I'm a hardcore socialist. Don't tell what I can and cannot be. You have no idea. I reject classical communism because it ignores both the power of religion and the need for permaculture. A world marxist state would drown in it's own shit, just like world capitalism.

Religions are involved in the process of state formation. They are often corrupted in the process. Was Marx wrong because Stalin was a monster? He called himself a communist.

[Janus]

Many doctors will advise meditation
Meditation is part of Buddhism but they are not the same thing.


I reject classical communism because it ignores both the power of religion and the need for permaculture. A world marxist state would drown in it's own shit, just like world capitalism.

Religions are involved in the process of state formation. They are often corrupted in the process. Was Marx wrong because Stalin was a monster? He called himself a communist.
It ignores religion because there will simply be no use for religion in a communist society.

Yes, religion sometimes corrupts the state if that's what you mean.

[ichneumon]

I mean the historical organization of townships into nation-states. Which has never, ever, happened without religion.

In many ways, religion is just that: whatever it is you use to get lots of unrelated people to cooperate and form a nation-state. This is the point wherein the original beliefs, which are usually fairly mild, get turned into tools of oppression. This is, I think, pretty classical Marxism, though I doubt he anticipated *his* philosophy being used in such a manner.

Just FYI, the only communalist societies that have EVER really worked were 100% religious. How do you ignore that? I'm talking about the Shakers, etc, here.

[Janus]

Just FYI, the only communalist societies that have EVER really worked were 100% religious. How do you ignore that? I'm talking about the Shakers, etc, here.
That's why they are what...4 members today. :lol: That really worked. :lol:


I mean the historical organization of townships into nation-states. Which has never, ever, happened without religion.

In many ways, religion is just that: whatever it is you use to get lots of unrelated people to cooperate and form a nation-state.
Religion is generally one type of bond but not the only one.

[Akira]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2006, 10:17 PM

In the various forms of Buddhism--Theravada, Mahayana (especially Pure Land and Zen), and Vajrayana--the notion of transcendence is of more difficult application. Except for Pure Land and Vajrayana (where a certain return to Hindu-like personifications of the spiritual world is countenanced), the role played by transcendent beings is minimal and at most a temporary expedient. The notion closest to transcendence, much in the spirit of Western "theologia negativa", is perhaps that of shunyata (emptiness, void). Suffice it to say that one of the marks which set Buddhism apart from Hinduism in the beginning, and continues to serve as distinctive, is its reluctance to allow language to approach or speak of transcendence. For many, this appears to amount to atheism; for others, it would be better termed agnosticim. At any rate, for the Buddhist, if anything ultimate or transcendent is to be "known" at all, it would have to be directly experienced and not talked about, and that is the end of it.

wikipedia.org

This is not the most religious thing I've ever heard. :rolleyes:

What I'm tring to say is this: Buddhism is with complete lack of the belief omnipotence, omniscience or omniverescence of any being, case closed. I see no reason to believe, with all good intent, that Buddhism is a religion, if it is agnostic -even atheist!- The complete lack of an eternal spirt is, to me non-theistic enough to classify it as a non-religion.

Case in point:

Buddhism is not a religion, but a philosophy.
You forget types of Buddhism in China,Japan,Tibet and various other places that incorporates deities and beliefs.

Take Shinto for instance in Japan.

I am of the Pureland tradition of Buddhism and apart of the teachings of Buddha I do believe in deities and the universal force that is the way of all reality corresponding with the tao.