What Is The Name For...

[CoexisT]

I'm sure there has to be a type of government that involves the ideals of socialism/communism without revolution. Or, is it socialism that doesn't involve a revolution and eventually leads to communism, and people that want communism straight out (skipping socialism) go for the revolution?

:unsure:

[Connolly]

Maybe reformism? :mellow: ......... being we can change society in a more gradual manner leading to some sort of socialist system?


Or, is it socialism that doesn't involve a revolution and eventually leads to communism

No, socialism - at least to a Marxist, involves revolution.

It all depends really about what you mean.

Marxists believe proletarian revolution will lead to socialism, which will lead to communism - using revolution.

Anarchists believe the socialist phase is not necessary to achieve communism - yet use revolution.

I think what your looking for is reformism? or something like that?

[CoexisT]

sure... lol. i'm not really sure what i was looking for, just wondering if it existed.


yeah, i totally forgot about the socialism thing. socialism is a dictatorship of the proletariat and communism is no central government, correct?


I guess reformism would be the right word, though I can't say I've heard of it before :lol:

[which doctor]

Evolutionary Marxism?

[CoexisT]

Originally posted by Fist of [email protected] 18 2006, 01:43 AM
Evolutionary Marxism?
Interesting.

[Whitten]

I'm sure there has to be a type of government that involves the ideals of socialism/communism without revolution. Or, is it socialism that doesn't involve a revolution and eventually leads to communism, and people that want communism straight out (skipping socialism) go for the revolution?

Non-revolutionary socialism? Reformism, such as social democracy (although thats almost always hijacked by the bourgeois very early on though).

Skimming out of socialism and going straight to communism? libertarian comunism, usually called anarchists

[AK47]

Originally posted by CoexisT+Jul 17 2006, 10:06 PM--> (CoexisT @ Jul 17 2006, 10:06 PM)
Fist of [email protected] 18 2006, 01:43 AM
Evolutionary Marxism?
Interesting. [/b]
Actually, Marx's later theory were more evolutionary in nature. The Soviets (Bolsheviks) would have none of it and tried to skip Capitalism and Socialism and go straight from Feudal Czarist Russia to a "Communist" state, completely ignoring the part about the proletariat learning how to run the workings of industry under Capitalism, and obtaining the intellect to run the infrastructure needed to maintain a working society. I am convinced to this day the Great October revolution (happened in November) was more like the Great October Socially premature ejaculation. They tried to rush from a Feudal system to an enlightened Communist one with out first deleting the Czarist mentality of hierarchy from their mind sets.

[Eleutherios]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2006, 04:07 PM
The Soviets (Bolsheviks) would have none of it and tried to skip Capitalism and Socialism and go straight from Feudal Czarist Russia to a "Communist" state
Not really. There is no such thing as a communist state, since by definition communism is a society without classes or states. And if the Bolsheviks tried to skip over socialism, why did they call their country the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics?

[Whitten]

Lenin's plan was to rush through state capitalism to get the economy developed to a point where socialism could be implemented. The successfulness of this strategy is widely debated.

[BurnTheOliveTree]

sennomulo- He did not mean state as in the state of Florida, or Britain. He meant as in a state of affairs. I would have thought that was obvious. :blink:

-Alex

[Connolly]

I am convinced to this day the Great October revolution (happened in November) was more like the Great October Socially premature ejaculation. They tried to rush from a Feudal system to an enlightened Communist one with out first deleting the Czarist mentality of hierarchy from their mind sets.

:lol: I agree 100%

[Eleutherios]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2006, 05:12 PM
sennomulo- He did not mean state as in the state of Florida, or Britain. He meant as in a state of affairs. I would have thought that was obvious. :blink:

-Alex
It wasn't obvious to me (if that is indeed what he meant). When I hear the term "communist state", I think of a nation-state, since that is how most people use the term (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_state). And besides, it doesn't seem to me like the Bolsheviks were in any real hurry to dismantle government power.

[Orange Juche]

"Democratic Socialism."

http://www.sp-usa.org

[CoexisT]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2006, 03:02 AM
"Democratic Socialism."

http://www.sp-usa.org
THAT is what I'm looking for. I think there's a girl in my Russian class that wears a Demo-Socialist shirt...

danka

[OneBrickOneVoice]

I might be a democratic-socialist except I realized that bourgeouis-capitalist elections are won by parties with big money which they use campaign with and get their voice heard. Sadly a workers party will never be rolling in paper so thus most ofthe time it's pretty hard to get a socialist candidate heard.

[Aurora]

I'm sure there has to be a type of government that involves the ideals of socialism/communism without revolution. Or, is it socialism that doesn't involve a revolution and eventually leads to communism, and people that want communism straight out (skipping socialism) go for the revolution?
Marxists(Communists) believe:
Capitalism->revolution->Socialism->Communism

Anarchists(Communists) believe:
Capitalism->revolution->Communism

social-democrats,reformists,democratic-socialists(idiots) believe:
Capitalism->Socialism->Communism (this is shit and impossible)


Evolutionary Marxism?
Contradiction

The Soviets (Bolsheviks) would have none of it and tried to skip Capitalism and Socialism and go straight from Feudal Czarist Russia to a "Communist" stateThe Bolsheviks thought it was posible to skip capitalism and move straight to Socialism,they never attempted Communism and a Communist state is a contradiction

They tried to rush from a Feudal system to an enlightened Communist one with out first deleting the Czarist mentality of hierarchy from their mind sets.
They never attempted Communism.

Lenin's plan was to rush through state capitalism to get the economy developed to a point where socialism could be implemented. The successfulness of this strategy is widely debated.
That makes no sense,"Lenin's plan" was to establish Socialism in russia.State-Capitalism is a term mainly used be people who think that Stalin "betrayed the revolution" people also use "a degenerated workers state"


THAT is what I'm looking for.
Dont bother it is imposible to implement Socialism without a revolution