Ten Questions

[Anti-Red]

Here are some questions for communists on the nature of society after the revolution...

1. So you have won the revolution, but the majority of people don't like it, and the only reason you won was firepower, what do you say to them?

2. Would a person be able to open their own business in your society?

3. Would a person have any right to live on their own land or have privacy or would the "committee" decide that?

4. I am currently what is regarded as a middle class American, would I be poorer or richer than I am today in your society?

5. I understand that you guys would like to let tons of immigrants in, well, I know that, but how many, is there no limit, or would borders be completely open?

6. Let's say that you ran America and all the capitalists moved to one area like one or two states and tried to break away, would you let them or would communism be so important that you wouldn't?

7. Would your society be panarchy, where different forms of government and economic systems coexist peacefully, or would it be under a centralized government?

8. What would you do to those who disagree with you and resist your plans?

9. Would we have an immediate communist society or a transitional government, and if a transitional government, would it be democratic and would we have the power to vote you guys out of office if we didn't like you?

10. Would I be forced to do things I don't want to like, like mandatory "volunteerism" to help the "poor" and stuff?

[Socialistpenguin]

1. So you have won the revolution, but the majority of people don't like it, and the only reason you won was firepower, what do you say to them?
The whole premise of revolution, and in this case, a communistic one, is that it is a popular armed uprising against the present social order. We would never take power simply because "we have the guns", for that would be little better than a coup.


2. Would a person be able to open their own business in your society?

Which society are we talking of here? Socialist (i.e. there's still a state) or anarchist/communist (no state).


3. Would a person have any right to live on their own land or have privacy or would the "committee" decide that?
Depends what you mean by "their own land", how they acquired said land, etc. However, I don't see privacy being jeapordised in any way, except for remnants of the previous capitalist order.


4. I am currently what is regarded as a middle class American, would I be poorer or richer than I am today in your society?
Define "middle class".



5. I understand that you guys would like to let tons of immigrants in, well, I know that, but how many, is there no limit, or would borders be completely open?
With the destruction of the nation-state and all it's patriotic trappings, there would be little need for borders.


6. Let's say that you ran America and all the capitalists moved to one area like one or two states and tried to break away, would you let them or would communism be so important that you wouldn't? If they truely sook autonomy, then of course. However, I don't how this would benefit the capitalists, with no workers to supply with their luxuries.



8. What would you do to those who disagree with you and resist your plans? How violently would these people oppose us? How many of them are there?


9. Would we have an immediate communist society or a transitional government, and if a transitional government, would it be democratic and would we have the power to vote you guys out of office if we didn't like you? Well, that depends on who you ask around here: what I think and what various others on this board think should happen after the revolution is completely different.


10. Would I be forced to do things I don't want to like, like mandatory "volunteerism" to help the "poor" and stuff? Of course not.

[Corvus]

Tis a rarity I post, but I like your ten questions so I shall give it my best. I as the author of this response would like to make note that these are ideologies I support. And as we have discussed on other posts, the left is very fragmented. So not all, and I doubt anyone would completly agree with my stance, here atleast.

"1. So you have won the revolution, but the majority of people don't like it, and the only reason you won was firepower, what do you say to them?"

The revolution would occur after the majority, or everyone has seen that no long is capitalism the right path for us to follow. So in part you question is not realistic. However looking from a historic view point revolutions have occured permatrue. So what would we (not 'you' 'I' or 'them', just we) do? We would educate, educate, and educate.

And if education fails you ask? I would reply, is there a unified front of unhappiness? Or is it 2 people disagreeing with the system? Or is it the entire state of California resisting? If it was small, we would say intergration into our society and they themselves will see it working. If it is such a large portion that they will only cause civil unrest and unhappiness for others? We would probably come to an agreement where everyone is happy. Which is possible, just unlikely.

"2. Would a person be able to open their own business in your society?"

You will not like the response I am about to give you, because it is invasive, but in what sense? Would this person be able to capture and keep extra resources for themselve because they were a owner of a business? Or would everyone be properly shared? The ideology some of us believe you cannot own something, it is all collectivly owned. However it is not collectivly operated.

So in the work sense it could be considered "owned" but noone would personal see any material wealth generated from this buisness. Only personal benefit would be respect, and the statisfaction of being a business organizer.

"3. Would a person have any right to live on their own land or have privacy or would the "committee" decide that?"

Freedom of mobility is truly a great freedom. It is one freedom I personally take advantage of and I cherish. You cannot own land, not just in a communist or socialist society, but even in our own society. You may think you have control over your 30mX50m property. But you do not. You are a tenat of Mother Nature herself.

But aside from the "ownership" of land, you would be able to move freely, but somethings cannot happen. You can't freely decided to move into a already over-populated area, just two reasons, one it is not sustainable, and two, it is not healthly. Would some "commitee" decided this? Hopefully not. Hopefully you would be intelligent enough to see over-population and unhealthly condidtions and decide not to move to such a place.

The ideology I follow, we do exercise some private control of the land we live on. The Communist Greater Society, would provide the nessecities of life. But on your land you can personally determine if you want to grow carrots, corn, or chickens(these are just examples). Whatever you decide to add a little spice - to say- into your life, to give you difference from your neighbours, something you can customize. However this is where we find the first flaw in our ideology. Some are talented gardners, some are talented herdsmyn. What prevents these people from growing exessivly and bargining thier products off? We cannot say 'You can grow 125 extra carrots in a season, but not 126.' We have thought of several ways to solve this problem to some degree, however laws and such are not the best solution, people acting on the betterment of others and themselves is the best solution.

"4. I am currently what is regarded as a middle class American, would I be poorer or richer than I am today in your society?"

There is no rich or poor in our society. Do you mean would you be better off or worse off in our society? The true middle class of American is twindling. If you are a true middle class American. Im afaird to say, I personally don't believe our society would see a rise in your standard of living. Would you expiernce a decline? I personally doubt it. Would you be able to take your vaccation to the Caccun every winter. No.

Would the 30,000 children that are going to die today see a rise in thier standard of living? Oh yes, oh yes. Would someone who was cursed by Mother Nature with a physical or mental disablitiy be better? Oh yes, they would not be confined due to something out of thier control.

You yourself may not see the gloriousness of this because you will not see a rise, but I assure you, the vast vast majority of the world will see a betterment of thier standard of living.

5. I understand that you guys would like to let tons of immigrants in, well, I know that, but how many, is there no limit, or would borders be completely open?

There are no political borders in any communist ideology. Will there be borders yes? Geographic, environmental, the ones that Nature put on the globe, not us.

There would be a Western Hemisphere maybe broken up north south. There would no longer be Canada, United States, and Mexico. It would be North America. From Panama Canal to Baker's Bay Nunivat.

If Mexico and United States had the exact same standard of living. Similar food amounts and selection, same politics, same freedoms. Would there still be a huge drive of illegal immigrants across your southern border? We do not think so. Not a lot of people want to pick up from where they were born from and thier family has lived for hundreds of years, to move 1000kms north to start all over again, only to experience the same standard of living.


Sorry, but I must leave to go to a wedding now :( I will finish this when I get back, my sincere apologizes.

[Revolution67]

1. So you have won the revolution, but the majority of people don't like it, and the only reason you won was firepower, what do you say to them?
The revolution is carried on by the masses and not by a group of insurgents. So the question does not arise.


2. Would a person be able to open their own business in your society?
As long as that person owns the means of production, ie if he is the worker who owns the means of production, no problem.


3. Would a person have any right to live on their own land or have privacy or would the "committee" decide that?Of course! Your home, you car, your laptop, plasma tv would be all yours. In Marxism, there is difference between 'private' and 'personal' property.


4. I am currently what is regarded as a middle class American, would I be poorer or richer than I am today in your society?
The definition of being richer or poorer in capitalist society would not stand in a communist society. Money can buy you material thing, unfortunately it cannot buy wisdom.


5. I understand that you guys would like to let tons of immigrants in, well, I know that, but how many, is there no limit, or would borders be completely open?

Immigration takes place, because, first it is a human tendency to move from one place to the other. Most of the immigrants come to 1st world countries from 3rd worl countries to escape the hardships of life in those countries. By the way, how do you see if an American immigrates to Austrlia, an Australian immigrates to New Zealand or Canada or a British immigtrates to US?


6. Let's say that you ran America and all the capitalists moved to one area like one or two states and tried to break away, would you let them or would communism be so important that you wouldn't?
Capitalists as a class would cease to exist after the revolution. No cappies no problem :lol:


7. Would your society be panarchy, where different forms of government and economic systems coexist peacefully, or would it be under a centralized government?
As other debators have pointed out, people would govern their societal affairs through communes and guilds. that would form the most democratic and decentralised form of governance.


8. What would you do to those who disagree with you and resist your plans?
As long as they do not harm the interests of the society, they would be left untouched, yet given a hearing.


9. Would we have an immediate communist society or a transitional government, and if a transitional government, would it be democratic and would we have the power to vote you guys out of office if we didn't like you?

The term "We" has been used in a broader, larger perspective. We live in a class driven society. Interests and aspirations of one class are different from those of the other class. Hence, we need to have a 'classless' society.


10. Would I be forced to do things I don't want to like, like mandatory "volunteerism" to help the "poor" and stuff?
I live in a capitalist society and I am forced to take up work I do not like. I wanted to be film maker, but I cannot go about it, as I do not have enough money and time to buy equipment and shoot a film. My boss wouldnt allow me to go on a long holiday. :P

[which doctor]

1. So you have won the revolution, but the majority of people don't like it, and the only reason you won was firepower, what do you say to them?
The only reason I will win the revolution is if it is in the will of the masses. I will not lead a revolution. There will be no vanguard in my revolution.


2. Would a person be able to open their own business in your society?
In a certain sense, yes. They could provide a service to the people, but they wouldn't be able to charge money for that service.


3. Would a person have any right to live on their own land or have privacy or would the "committee" decide that?
There would be no committee. As long as no one else has a big problem with it, I say why not.


4. I am currently what is regarded as a middle class American, would I be poorer or richer than I am today in your society?
Richer, especially in abstract wealth.


5. I understand that you guys would like to let tons of immigrants in, well, I know that, but how many, is there no limit, or would borders be completely open?
Wide open. Although I don't think mass immigrations would really be a huge problem as there would be revolutions occurring in neighboring lands.


6. Let's say that you ran America and all the capitalists moved to one area like one or two states and tried to break away, would you let them or would communism be so important that you wouldn't?
Sure, I guess they could all do that. But since capitalism is unfavorable to the average person, all the non-capitalist people in that area would relocate. The capitalists would have no one to exploit.


7. Would your society be panarchy, where different forms of government and economic systems coexist peacefully, or would it be under a centralized government?
Well, I think the vast majority of people would prefer to live in an anarchist society. The only real people who want archy are members of the ruling class. They can go start their feudal kingdom, but I doubt many people would want to be part of it.


8. What would you do to those who disagree with you and resist your plans?
If they openly resist the people, the people will openly resist them. Maybe escalating into violence and death.


9. Would we have an immediate communist society or a transitional government, and if a transitional government, would it be democratic and would we have the power to vote you guys out of office if we didn't like you?
No transitional "government" whatsoever.


10. Would I be forced to do things I don't want to like, like mandatory "volunteerism" to help the "poor" and stuff?
No, but seeing as would be no more poor left, thats not something you have to worry about.

[Comrade-Z]

The whole premise of revolution, and in this case, a communistic one, is that it is a popular armed uprising against the present social order. We would never take power simply because "we have the guns", for that would be little better than a coup.

Correct. Our goal is to encourage and participate in the self-emancipation of the proletariat. We are looking to affect an entire change in the social order, not just a change in leadership (with us becoming the leaders, as Anti-Red seemed to think would be the case). You can see an example of the latter scenario with the USSR--they got "red" bosses instead of their old bosses, but no real change in the social relations took place. We don't want that. And we learn from our mistakes.

Not that I want to argue from authority from Marx, but he summed it up rather well:

"The emancipation of the working class must be the work of the workers themselves."


2. Would a person be able to open their own business in your society?

You can start your own enterprise as long as your enterprise is run democratically and as long as you produce for use rather than exchange. Additionally, whatever capital (tools, etc.) you need for your enterprise, you and your co-workers can freely appropriate from society as needed.

For example, let's say you recognize that people in your neighborhood desire an ice-cream stand. So you have the idea to set up an ice-cream stand with a 3-man crew. You find 2 other interested individuals and become equal co-operators of the "enterprise." You contact your local workers' councils involved in various types of production and say, "Hey, I need a half-ton of lumber, some other building components (screws, bolts, etc.), an ice-cream machine, and a continual supply of creamer, milk, etc. to be delivered weekly. The amounts of creamer and milk we need will vary depending on how much demand for our ice-cream there is and how much we end up using, so we'll keep in touch on that." These workers' councils, assuming they see nothing wrong, environmentally damaging, etc. about your enterprise, will give you your materials for free! Then you start up your ice-cream stand, start producing ice-cream, and give it away to whoever wants some (you produce for use rather than exchange). At the end of the day, you go to the supermarket and simply take off the supermarket shelves what you think you need.

It's that simple.


3. Would a person have any right to live on their own land or have privacy or would the "committee" decide

You'd have about as much privacy to live by yourself as you do now, maybe more. If you were trying to hog a huge 3-story mansion all to yourself and there was a housing shortage in your area, you might be asked by your community and expected to share a few rooms in your mansion. But I don't anticipate very many housing shortages in the future. Even as it is now we probably have enough housing for everyone to have a decent sized abode that they can use on their own.

An important thing to point out is that a house would only be "yours" as long as you were making use of it in a socially average manner (meaning, if the socially average house was a 4 bedroom, 2 bath house of decent luxury, you'd be allowed to freely take up residence in any vacant house up to roughly that size and standard). However, if you stop using your house semi-permanently (for several years), the house will be once again up for grabs. Like everything else, houses will be created and maintained for use rather than for exchange and/or accumulation as private property.


4. I am currently what is regarded as a middle class American, would I be poorer or richer than I am today in your society?

In terms of material wealth, you'd be about the same. But in terms of quality of life, I'd think it would be much better for you. Much less crime, much more freedom, a lot fewer daily worries, etc.


5. I understand that you guys would like to let tons of immigrants in, well, I know that, but how many, is there no limit, or would borders be completely open?

We would bar certain people from entering the country, I would imagine, but not based on race or nationality. For instance, self-proclaimed counter-revolutionaries (pro-capitalists, religious fundamentalists, and such) would not be allowed in, I would imagine. In statistical terms, I would imagine immigration would be a bit higher, but I wouldn't see any problems with our material wealth being diminshed by immigration. If we don't have the material wealth to support more people (if we don't have excess use-value in society), then people won't want to come here anyways. And besides, the still-existing capitalist countries might impose restrictions on their own citizens emigrating to our country. And with all the propaganda against us in the still-existing capitalist countries, a lot of people would be scared to immigrate to our country, I would imagine. :lol:


6. Let's say that you ran America and all the capitalists moved to one area like one or two states and tried to break away, would you let them or would communism be so important that you wouldn't?

Obviously we aren't going to be over to make revolution in the entire world at once, so there will still be significant regions of the world that are capitalist after the U.S./Canada and Western Europe have their communist revolutions. So if all the capitalists moved to, say, Florida and wanted to set up their own independent country there, I guess we could allow that. But if the workers in Florida that these capitalists are exploiting wanted to revolt, it's not like we are going to refuse aid to those revolutionaries. The same would apply to anywhere else in the world.


7. Would your society be panarchy, where different forms of government and economic systems coexist peacefully, or would it be under a centralized government?

Production would most likely be organized by loosely-federated workers' councils in various enterprises and industries, and these would have a great deal of individual autonomy, within certain parameters (like no wage-labor, always democratic operation, production for use rather than exchange). Defense and "policing," insofar as it was deemed needed, would be comprised of federations of democratic militias staffed by workers rotating in and out of service on a regular basis. So yeah, there would be a great deal of autonomy within regions, cities, etc., and these distinct units would coordinate activities based on mutual desire.


8. What would you do to those who disagree with you and resist your plans?

There will be no prisons after the revolution, so there would be roughly 4 options:
1. Warning, if we think the people didn't mean harm by it.
2. Some sort of short-term probation for people who we think can be persuaded to join us.
3. Exile to a still-existing capitalist country (preferred) for people who we think are irrevocably and violently set against our new way of life.
4. Execution for instances where exile of those people specified in option 3 is deemed impossible/impractical.


9. Would we have an immediate communist society or a transitional government, and if a transitional government, would it be democratic and would we have the power to vote you guys out of office if we didn't like you?

It's hard to say what will be needed at this point, but if any transitional centralized government was deemed to be necessary, it would be of the democratic, transparent, and immediately recallable variety. And yeah, if the vast majority of people don't like communism, it's not like we can stop them from going back to capitalism (the revolution must be popular to succeed, after all). In fact, one thing that the transitional government would not have is a professional army with dogmatic alliegiance to the centralized government, which would enable the centralized government to entrench itself. Instead, there would be a federation of rotating militias controlled by local councils. But I don't see people wanting to go back to capitalism and its bosses, insecurities, etc. as being likely. It would be like people in the U.S. in 1805 deciding that they didn't like capitalist democracy after all and that they wanted to go back to a feudal monarchy.

You might ask what's to keep these different regions from splitting off and engaging in sectarian warfare. Well, I suppose it would be possible, but why on earth would people do that when it would entail damage to life and wealth and when nothing would be gained by it? These regions would all have a natural solidarity of interests, after all. It would only be in their self-interest to cooperate or peacefully co-exist.


10. Would I be forced to do things I don't want to like, like mandatory "volunteerism" to help the "poor" and stuff?

No, of course not. And besides, what "poor" would there be to help in the first place? ;)

These are actually some good questions.

[RevMARKSman]

Originally posted by Fist of [email protected] 15 2006, 11:20 AM

1. So you have won the revolution, but the majority of people don't like it, and the only reason you won was firepower, what do you say to them?
The only reason I will win the revolution is if it is in the will of the masses. I will not lead a revolution. There will be no vanguard in my revolution.


2. Would a person be able to open their own business in your society?
In a certain sense, yes. They could provide a service to the people, but they wouldn't be able to charge money for that service.


3. Would a person have any right to live on their own land or have privacy or would the "committee" decide that?
There would be no committee. As long as no one else has a big problem with it, I say why not.


4. I am currently what is regarded as a middle class American, would I be poorer or richer than I am today in your society?
Richer, especially in abstract wealth.


5. I understand that you guys would like to let tons of immigrants in, well, I know that, but how many, is there no limit, or would borders be completely open?
Wide open. Although I don't think mass immigrations would really be a huge problem as there would be revolutions occurring in neighboring lands.


6. Let's say that you ran America and all the capitalists moved to one area like one or two states and tried to break away, would you let them or would communism be so important that you wouldn't?
Sure, I guess they could all do that. But since capitalism is unfavorable to the average person, all the non-capitalist people in that area would relocate. The capitalists would have no one to exploit.


7. Would your society be panarchy, where different forms of government and economic systems coexist peacefully, or would it be under a centralized government?
Well, I think the vast majority of people would prefer to live in an anarchist society. The only real people who want archy are members of the ruling class. They can go start their feudal kingdom, but I doubt many people would want to be part of it.


8. What would you do to those who disagree with you and resist your plans?
If they openly resist the people, the people will openly resist them. Maybe escalating into violence and death.


9. Would we have an immediate communist society or a transitional government, and if a transitional government, would it be democratic and would we have the power to vote you guys out of office if we didn't like you?
No transitional "government" whatsoever.


10. Would I be forced to do things I don't want to like, like mandatory "volunteerism" to help the "poor" and stuff?
No, but seeing as would be no more poor left, thats not something you have to worry about.
Seconded. I'm glad there is someone here who shares my ideals and isn't lazy enough to not answer these questions. Most of them were pretty legitimate for a cappie. :)

[Goatse]

1. So you have won the revolution, but the majority of people don't like it, and the only reason you won was firepower, what do you say to them?

The revolution is not firepower - the revolution is people putting down their tools and turning their back on capitalism.



2. Would a person be able to open their own business in your society?

Well there would be no one to stop them... except maybe they'd be pissed at you trying to bring back the ways that they'd just turned away from? You know, the angry mob that's going to murder you with pitchforks type of pissed.



3. Would a person have any right to live on their own land or have privacy or would the "committee" decide that?

No one would be allowed to simply enter your house at midnight because they feel like it; but no, no massive private estates either.



4. I am currently what is regarded as a middle class American, would I be poorer or richer than I am today in your society?

Rich and poor would no longer be relevant.


5. I understand that you guys would like to let tons of immigrants in, well, I know that, but how many, is there no limit, or would borders be completely open?

There would be no borders.


6. Let's say that you ran America and all the capitalists moved to one area like one or two states and tried to break away, would you let them or would communism be so important that you wouldn't?

So... how exactly can a bunch of bosses and CEOs manage on their own?

Answer: They couldn't. Some would have to become working class to keep capitalism going. And it's quite likely the people who were chosen to drop their position as CEO and get their hands dirty would prefer communal society.


7. Would your society be panarchy, where different forms of government and economic systems coexist peacefully, or would it be under a centralized government?


No government.



8. What would you do to those who disagree with you and resist your plans?

Let them do what they will, unless this resistance harms other people. I doubt many would join them and their movement would collapse.


9. Would we have an immediate communist society or a transitional government, and if a transitional government, would it be democratic and would we have the power to vote you guys out of office if we didn't like you?

Perhaps a transitional government, but only for a very shortwhile.



10. Would I be forced to do things I don't want to like, like mandatory "volunteerism" to help the "poor" and stuff?

Of course not.

And no one would be "poor", at least not in today's sense of the word.

[Ol' Dirty]

[/QUOTE]

1. So you have won the revolution, but the majority of people don't like it, and the only reason you won was firepower, what do you say to them?

For one thing, a revolution, as there shall be many revolutions besides our own in the future.

Secondly, a majority of the population would have to at least support the revolutionaries for it to work.

The Loyalists in the new American Republic were shocked and appauled at this "treason", after the liberals had won, and left for Canada or Britain, or they just tuffed it out. Also, they had often had their land and stock taken from them because they were loyalists. This probably what would happen in a modern day revolution.

What I'm saying is, a popular revolution -by deffinition- would have quite a few people on its side. Your question isn't worded properly.


2. Would a person be able to open their own business in your society?

To a certain degree, yes. People would be able to operate small buisinesses to support themselves, but not to the point of a massive corporation that sells products for individual profit, without any individual resposibility. If you take what you give back, there's noting wrong with that. But there would be no corporatism, if that's what you mean. Small buisinesses are necassery, corporations aren't.


3. Would a person have any right to live on their own land or have privacy or would the "committee" decide that?

Of course people would have their own land. They simply wouldn't be able to take massive properties. There would be rules and regulations on that sort of thing.


4. I am currently what is regarded as a middle class American, would I be poorer or richer than I am today in your society?

You would probably fare better off. You wouldn't have to be highly competitive to survive. You would be rather secure. The richer would be poorer, but that means that everybody else would live more nicely. Even the rich would still be doing pretty well, if they cooperated.


5. I understand that you guys would like to let tons of immigrants in, well, I know that, but how many, is there no limit, or would borders be completely open?

There would be no borders, as the world would be one big nation. People could generally go where they pleased.


6. Let's say that you ran America and all the capitalists moved to one area like one or two states and tried to break away, would you let them or would communism be so important that you wouldn't?

Ideology isn't important. It's people saftey and hapiness that matters. I don't consider myself a communist, nor anyhthing else, for that matter. I'm just me. I have my own opinions on certain things, and I do what I believe needs to be done.

As for having a capitalist nation, that probably wouldn't be allowed. They would be captured anyway. They could either give in, or we would imprson them. It's that simple.

If something that drastic happened, war would be declared , and we would take back the territory and discipline them.


7. Would your society be panarchy, where different forms of government and economic systems coexist peacefully, or would it be under a centralized government?

It would be centralized. All people would have great autonomy, and they would simply be supported and limited, as to support others.


8. What would you do to those who disagree with you and resist your plans?

We'd probably let them be. Everybody would have the right to freedom of speech. If they crossed the line, say, started hurting people, we would discipline them like any other criminal.


9. Would we have an immediate communist society or a transitional government, and if a transitional government, would it be democratic and would we have the power to vote you guys out of office if we didn't like you?

My perfect society would be an Emancipated, Socialist Nation with a sturdy constitution and economic system. A society must have flexibilty so it can survive whatever comes at it.

In short, things would change over time. If epople wanted to ammend the Constitution, they could. If they needed something fixed, it would be. People would vote representitives for their territory once a year, and national leaders once per year. There would be much more voting, and much more choice.


10. Would I be forced to do things I don't want to like, like mandatory "volunteerism" to help the "poor" and stuff?

:lol:

No, we wouldn't "force you to volunteer, and stuff", or whatever oxymoronic phrase you'd like to place in the box. Besides, no one should need to recourse to charity. Everyyone should have as much saftey as possibe

Of course course people would be forced to do certain things, but, really dosn't that happen already in any other country? :huh:

[Si Pinto]

1. So you have won the revolution, but the majority of people don't like it, and the only reason you won was firepower, what do you say to them?


If the majority of people don't want communism then it won't happen. This is not about a minority impossing their wants on the majority(capitalism). This is about the billions of oppressed people deciding their own fate, and we communists believe that if ALL the facts are made available to these people they will choose freedom, over continued servitude.


2. Would a person be able to open their own business in your society?


A person would be able to pursue their chosen role. There will still be the need for much the same services we need today.....teachers, plumbers, doctors, bakers etc.

So if you wanted to be a Baker for example you would operate a Bakery as you do now, but it wouldn't be a business, there would be no financial transactions. Simple supply and demand would be the norm...i.e. People want/need bread...you cook it.


3. Would a person have any right to live on their own land or have privacy or would the "committee" decide that?


You wouldn't own 'land'...nor would I...nor would anyone.

Assuming that technology hasn't provided you with a better home, you would I think still live in your current home yes.

I'm going to disagree with certain people here by saying that 'committees' would be required to ensure equal distribution.....i.e.....you couldn't just move into Gracelands because you felt like it if someone else already lived there.

Once the distribution is made equally you would be free to have the most technologically advanced house available, as would we all.


4. I am currently what is regarded as a middle class American, would I be poorer or richer than I am today in your society?


You would have everything you needed for a happy healthy life and the the best implements that the technology of the time allowed.

It wouldn't cost you anything as there is no cost, so you would be far better off than you are today.


5. I understand that you guys would like to let tons of immigrants in, well, I know that, but how many, is there no limit, or would borders be completely open?


There would be no borders, but as the situation in the areas that immigrants come from improved under the equality of communism then I would imagine that immigration would cease.


6. Let's say that you ran America and all the capitalists moved to one area like one or two states and tried to break away, would you let them or would communism be so important that you wouldn't?


Well again I will differ slightly from other answers here by saying that it would be allowed as long as it doesn't contradict anyone elses rights or the equality of the system, but as has been pointed out already, there wouldn't be any workers to exploit so it wouldn't last long. Whay would anyone want to work for a wage when you have all your needs met?


7. Would your society be panarchy, where different forms of government and economic systems coexist peacefully, or would it be under a centralized government?


Some form of organisation/committee would be responsible for the smooth changeover from capitalism to communism. Once the communist system was up and running then this comittee probably wouldn't be required.


8. What would you do to those who disagree with you and resist your plans?


For those who disagree with the system they are of course free to 'try capitalism' again as I said in question 6, but who would work there?

Once the communist system is up and running and everyone has whatever they need I see no cause for disagreement.

As for people who are violent or who are simply criminals, there would be a penal code of some sort to deal with this, again a committee would decide on this code and a civilian militia would police it.


9. Would we have an immediate communist society or a transitional government, and if a transitional government, would it be democratic and would we have the power to vote you guys out of office if we didn't like you?

The process of creating the communist system would begin immediately, but obviously there would be a period of transition from the current system to a communist one.

As I've said, a peoples committee would see this transition through as quickly as possible.


10. Would I be forced to do things I don't want to like, like mandatory "volunteerism" to help the "poor" and stuff?

Well I'll paint a picture here because your question is phrased in the 'here and now' rather than post revolution.

The revolution has happened (because people want it), which means that the masses want to end poverty. There would be work to be done providing the means for the poorest people and the masses (who want to end their suffering) would obviously see it through.

If you didn't want to be a part of this then that would be your perogative, but I would imagine that you would be one of those who 'disagree' with the system. If you were part of the revolution I think you'd think differently.

I hope this makes sense.

[Anti-Red]

While I remain unconvinced that communism would work, I suppose you have shed some real light on your ideology. I am going to tell you that I am sorry for all the terrible things that I have said about you guys, and I must say, that your ideology is probably closer to mine, than say, Bush's or something.

[Si Pinto]

Originally posted by Anti-[email protected] 15 2006, 06:12 PM
While I remain unconvinced that communism would work, I suppose you have shed some real light on your ideology. I am going to tell you that I am sorry for all the terrible things that I have said about you guys, and I must say, that your ideology is probably closer to mine, than say, Bush's or something.
Thank you

Well it makes a change from being called ignorant commies.

This really isn't a passing whim....or a load of hippy time wasters dreaming.

These are reachable goals (we believe it anyway), which we (most of us anyway) passionately want to see happen for everyones benefit...not just the 'few'.

;)

[power... UNLIMITED POWER!]

Well it makes a change from being called ignorant commies.
Anti-Red was just being lenient with you. Youze are not all ignorant though, just young. I was a Marxist when I was 13 too! But you Si Pinto being slightly older! You are incredibly ignorant!


These are reachable goals (we believe it anyway), which we (most of us anyway) passionately want to see happen for everyones benefit...not just the few.
Oh really, lets examine their reachability shall we?


If the majority of people don\'t want communism then it won\'t happen. This is not about a minority impossing their wants on the majority(capitalism). This is about the billions of oppressed people deciding their own fate, and we communists believe that if ALL the facts are made available to these people they will choose freedom, over continued servitude.
The trade union movement has destroyed all potential for communism in advanced countries. Communism has become obsolete as a result of the ability to collectively bargain. If this ability is taken away however, then you may get your revolution.


A person would be able to pursue their chosen role. There will still be the need for much the same services we need today.....teachers, plumbers, doctors, bakers etc.
Well, capitalism unlike any other system allows you to be the artist of your life - unlike socialism. I imagine you wanted to be something other than what you are now Si Pinto?


So if you wanted to be a Baker for example you would operate a Bakery as you do now, but it wouldn\'t be a business, there would be no financial transactions. Simple supply and demand would be the norm...i.e. People want/need bread...you cook it.
So youll work for free for me! How lovely of you! I want 1000 croissants for the banquet in honor of myself! Get to work!

I think you forget Cuba has 47 years with the RATION CARD!!!!! Shelves are empty! Where are my croissants?


You wouldn\'t own land...nor would I...nor would anyone.
We all live in rundown public housing...


Assuming that technology hasn\'t provided you with a better home, you would I think still live in your current home yes.
Like people are still gonna work 24 hours a day to invent stuff when they dont get paid!


I\'m going to disagree with certain people here by saying that committees would be required to ensure equal distribution.....i.e.....you couldn\'t just move into Gracelands because you felt like it if someone else already lived there.
You need committies because rationing will be in place. The committess will get more food than everyone else of course.


Once the distribution is made equally you would be free to have the most technologically advanced house available, as would we all.

Stalinist architecture you mean... It has to cost effective if you outlaw money.


You would have everything you needed for a happy healthy life and the the best implements that the technology of the time allowed.
Oh ....really :rolleys: how?


It wouldn\'t cost you anything as there is no cost, so you would be far better off than you are today.
So naive. So incredibly stupidly naive...


Well again I will differ slightly from other answers here by saying that it would be allowed as long as it doesn\'t contradict anyone elses rights or the equality of the system, but as has been pointed out already, there wouldn\'t be any workers to exploit so it wouldn\'t last long. Whay would anyone want to work for a wage when you have all your needs met?
Yeah it will all fall out of the sky! Hoarding will not exist! Our needs are met! No one im sure will try to make any improvements over needs into luxuries?


Some form of organisation/committee would be responsible for the smooth changeover from capitalism to communism. Once the communist system was up and running then this comittee probably wouldn\'t be required
Take away the committess you go back to capitalism.


For those who disagree with the system they are of course free to \'try capitalism\' again as I said in question 6, but who would work there?
They would be killing each other to get back in trust me...


Once the communist system is up and running and everyone has whatever they need I see no cause for disagreement.
They will want freedom to print money, buy jewellery, buff themselves up for a start and will look longingly into the decandent bourgeosie countries.


As I\'ve said, a peoples committee would see this transition through as quickly as possible.
yeah Im so sure they are going to disband themselves...


The revolution has happened (because people want it), which means that the masses want to end poverty. There would be work to be done providing the means for the poorest people and the masses (who want to end their suffering) would obviously see it through.
You end poverty you invite hell on Earth!!!!!! Dont even consider it buster.

[Hiero]

1. So you have won the revolution, but the majority of people don't like it, and the only reason you won was firepower, what do you say to them?

Bang.


Anti-Red was just being lenient with you. Youze are not all ignorant though, just young. I was a Marxist when I was 13 too! But you Si Pinto being slightly older! You are incredibly ignorant!

I'll let "yous" or "you's" pass, but "youze" is just horrible. You should have typed "You are not all ignorant".

[NoMoreBosses]

I have the answers.

[Si Pinto]

Originally posted by power... UNLIMITED POWER!@Jul 16 2006, 07:55 AM
Anti-Red was just being lenient with you. Youze are not all ignorant though, just young. I was a Marxist when I was 13 too! But you Si Pinto being slightly older! You are incredibly ignorant!
Anyone who reads your monosyllabic moronic one sentanced responses to my points is going to think differently about who is 'ignorant'. :rolleyes:

You think I should have 'learned my lesson' by now? Don't patronise me dimwit.



The trade union movement has destroyed all potential for communism in advanced countries. Communism has become obsolete as a result of the ability to collectively bargain. If this ability is taken away however, then you may get your revolution.

Well...you've just made a point and then answered it yourself.

Trade unions have nothing to do with a revolution, other than possibley being a 'collection' of oppressed workers.

Unions are there to 'eek' out pay rises and pension rights for the people they stand for.

I really don't see it being a 'union led' revolution. The revolution will take place when the workers all over the world (the vast majority of which don't have union representation anyway) decide to...and that's it.


Well, capitalism unlike any other system allows you to be the artist of your life - unlike socialism. I imagine you wanted to be something other than what you are now Si Pinto?


What a load of crap!!! You sound like a capitalist poet!

So are you the 'artist' of your life right now? Have you been able to reach your creative 'zenith' whilst working your 40 hour weeks and trying to keep a house and family going?

No of course not.

That's the point that you capitalists don't get, your exploited as well, your held back doing a job you probably hate just to earn a living (or not in a lot of countries).

You can try and better yourself and you may strike lucky in which case you can become one of the 'few' who have the money and resources to decide their own fate, but even then your still constrained by the capitalist machine.


So youll work for free for me! How lovely of you! I want 1000 croissants for the banquet in honor of myself! Get to work!

I think you forget Cuba has 47 years with the RATION CARD!!!!! Shelves are empty! Where are my croissants?

Yeah sure.....1000 croissants coming right up....all made to my special recipe...try one....they're to die for. :ph34r:

As for Cuba ......you may have heard this one before....but it obviously hasn't sunk into that bottomless pit that is your intellect.

So I'll make it really simple for you.

SINCE WHEN HAS CUBA BEEN A COMMUNIST SYSTEM????

Communism is a stateless, classless society. No 'country' can be communist, despite what they call it.


We all live in rundown public housing...

:lol:

So much for being the 'artist' of your life. Mr POWER



Like people are still gonna work 24 hours a day to invent stuff when they dont get paid!

Why not? If your creative, your creative!!! Whether you have a few sheets of paper in your arse pocket or not.

Only it wouldn't be 'work' it would because they like doing it and (presumably) they are quite good at it.


You need committies because rationing will be in place. The committess will get more food than everyone else of course.


:rolleyes:

Here have another croissant.

No they wouldn't get any more food than anyone else, and I see no reason why there would be rationing, there is more than enough food on this planet already.

Try to remember...I know it's difficult....this is a communist system....not a 'help youself and fuck the rest' capitalist one......and if you try to use Cuba or the USSR as an example in your next post I'm going to come over there and force-feed you my croissants until they're coming out of your arse.


Stalinist architecture you mean... It has to cost effective if you outlaw money.

You yourself live in 'cost effective' housing so you say...and yet you live in a capitalist system.....one in which your the 'artist' of your life?

Why should technological developments stop under a communist system?

As I said earlier...a creative person will remain a creative person after the revolution. He or she will have all their needs met without the need to worry about paying bills or 'income' tax.

They would be able to concentrate on what they really want to do....be creative.


Yeah it will all fall out of the sky! Hoarding will not exist! Our needs are met! No one im sure will try to make any improvements over needs into luxuries?


Hoarding won't exist your quite right there, as opposed to how the capitalists hoard stuff now, even the basic human requirements.


Take away the committess you go back to capitalism.

Wow thats deep!!


They would be killing each other to get back in trust me...

Mr Power I trust you about as far as I could comfortably spit out a brick.


yeah Im so sure they are going to disband themselves...

They would have no mandate other than the one they were set up for, so when that task was done they would have nothing to do, so of course they would disband.


You end poverty you invite hell on Earth!!!!!! Dont even consider it buster.

What the hell is that supposed to mean? You want to use poverty as a way of controlling people?

Your sick, even Anti-Red can see that.

As for 'considering it Buster'.

When the people decide the time is right, they'll do more than consider it.

Can't wait till then...can you?

and then finally we have....


So naive. So incredibly stupidly naive...


Croissant?

[Goatse]

LMAO, Si Pinto. :lol:

[power... UNLIMITED POWER!]

Si Pinto I love how you glossed over my legitimate criticism of your play school utopia and brushed over them with your purile, juveninle humor, (which I loved btw).

To adress your response:


Trade unions have nothing to do with a revolution, other than possibley being a collection of oppressed workers.

Unions are there to eek out pay rises and pension rights for the people they stand for.

I really dont see it being a union led revolution. The revolution will take place when the workers all over the world (the vast majority of which dont have union representation anyway) decide to...and thats it.
My point actually was that workers today are completely satisfied with unions and are unwilling to disrupt their stable well paid jobs with revolutionary ideas which have become obsolete in the extreme.


So are you the artist of your life right now? Have you been able to reach your creative zenith whilst working your 40 hour weeks and trying to keep a house and family going?

No of course not.
Why have a family if you cant afford them? Its the height of arrogance to expect everyone else you finance you. And yes we are all the artist of our life because we and only we control our destiny.


Thats the point that you capitalists dont get, your exploited as well, your held back doing a job you probably hate just to earn a living (or not in a lot of countries).
I wouldnt work a hateful job. Its stupid. I dont work at all actually.


You can try and better yourself and you may strike lucky in which case you can become one of the few who have the money and resources to decide their own fate, but even then your still constrained by the capitalist machine.
NO! Nobody is constrained unless they accept they are. Thats the difference between you and me.


Yeah sure.....1000 croissants coming right up....all made to my special recipe...try one....theyre to die for.

As for Cuba ......you may have heard this one before....but it obviously hasnt sunk into that bottomless pit that is your intellect.

So Ill make it really simple for you.

SINCE WHEN HAS CUBA BEEN A COMMUNIST SYSTEM????

Communism is a stateless, classless society. No country can be communist, despite what they call it.

Dont be so selective. Cuba is as close as youre going to get and you know it.



We all live in rundown public housing...

So much for being the artist of your life. Mr POWER
I dont live in public housing!!! Im talking about Cubans!!!



Like people are still gonna work 24 hours a day to invent stuff when they dont get paid!



Why not? If your creative, your creative!!! Whether you have a few sheets of paper in your arse pocket or not.

Only it wouldnt be work it would because they like doing it and (presumably) they are quite good at it.
You obviously dont know the motivating power of money.


No they wouldnt get any more food than anyone else, and I see no reason why there would be rationing, there is more than enough food on this planet already.
There is more than enough food on this planet true, but unless the Africans or North Koreans can find some useful occupation which generates cash who is going to sell it to them? You? Dont make me laugh. I mean youre really going to work for free arnt you?


Try to remember...I know its difficult....this is a communist system....not a help youself and fuck the rest capitalist one......and if you try to use Cuba or the USSR as an example in your next post Im going to come over there and force-feed you my croissants until theyre coming out of your arse.
Communism is a help yourself system. Capitalism you have to work. Its that simple.




And please stop it with your juvenile threats. Since Ive come on this site ive been threatened with death many times.


You yourself live in cost effective housing so you say...and yet you live in a capitalist system.....one in which your the artist of your life?
I dont live in public housing!!!! I was talking about under your system!!!!!!!!! Ill thank you not to cast aspersions.


Why should technological developments stop under a communist system?
AH! Because there is no incentive to invent!!!!! Do you know I was reading the North Korean news website. Theyve developed a new insectiside! Its a great breakthrough!!! They say it targets the central nerve system of insects and is SAFE FOR HUMANS! (we know what that means eh?.....)


As I said earlier...a creative person will remain a creative person after the revolution. He or she will have all their needs met without the need to worry about paying bills or income tax.
Capitalism created the modern world. Every attempt at communism has taken us back 200 years. Look at history. OH YOU THINK THE IDLE RICH INVENT STUFF!!! Trust me when you have nothing to do you dont do nothing!!! only people who want big dough invent stuff. Ask the inventor of electrolysis, or anything really.


They would be able to concentrate on what they really want to do....be creative.
No, youve obviously never been idle...


Mr Power I trust you about as far as I could comfortably spit out a brick.

Is that an insult?



Take away the committess you go back to capitalism.



Wow thats deep!!

No its obvious.


They would have no mandate other than the one they were set up for, so when that task was done they would have nothing to do, so of course they would disband.
Name one revolutoin where the clique has disbanded!!!




You end poverty you invite hell on Earth!!!!!! Dont even consider it buster.



What the hell is that supposed to mean? You want to use poverty as a way of controlling people?
Well, youve obviously never read Aristophanes? His last extant work should explain everything.

People: Get out poverty!!!
Poverty: Youll beg to have me back!!!

And they do....


Your sick, even Anti-Red can see that.
Trust me anti-red is a libertarian.

[Hiero]

Ten times richer. Without capitalists, virtually everybody would be filthy rich.

This is wrong.

The Capitalist in the USA make most of their money from 3rd world expliotation. The middle class, and in alot of cases the wages for workers in the first world are paid for mostly by super profits in the 3rd world. The first world consumes way more then they deserve, or produce. If we are serious about creating a equal world, where all people are well feed, clothed and sheltered then production and consumption paterns will have to change. The concentration of wealth and consumption in the US must be stoped by revolution in the 3rd world.

For the middle class to be even more filthy rich after revolution means that imperialism has to be increased to feed more consumption. Right now the middle class and a large portion of the working class consume more then they deserve and what the world can support. When revolution finally comes to the USA, after the neo-colonies liberate themselves, the middles class lifestyle will be dramatically reduced to world working class standards that a socialist system can cope with.

So no, everyone wont be filthy rich. Even after years of world Communism, people wont be filthy rich, no one will consume more then a fair share.

[Goatse]

Capitalism created the modern world. Every attempt at communism has taken us back 200 years. Look at history. OH YOU THINK THE IDLE RICH INVENT STUFF!!! Trust me when you have nothing to do you dont do nothing!!! only people who want big dough invent stuff. Ask the inventor of electrolysis, or anything really.

What the fuck?

The people of the Russian Empire and people in the Republic of China were living in the middle ages before the revolution. They've moved forward centuries!

[theraven]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2006, 12:15 PM

Capitalism created the modern world. Every attempt at communism has taken us back 200 years. Look at history. OH YOU THINK THE IDLE RICH INVENT STUFF!!! Trust me when you have nothing to do you dont do nothing!!! only people who want big dough invent stuff. Ask the inventor of electrolysis, or anything really.

What the fuck?

The people of the Russian Empire and people in the Republic of China were living in the middle ages before the revolution. They've moved forward centuries!
1) Russia under a foward looking czar would have been far bette r off then under stalin, and almost all of the progres in russia came from the more capitilist envaodrs

2) China was still a backwords place till the late '70s when den jo peng reformed it and allowed capitislm to florish.

[theraven]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2006, 12:04 PM

Ten times richer. Without capitalists, virtually everybody would be filthy rich.

This is wrong.

The Capitalist in the USA make most of their money from 3rd world expliotation. The middle class, and in alot of cases the wages for workers in the first world are paid for mostly by super profits in the 3rd world. The first world consumes way more then they deserve, or produce. If we are serious about creating a equal world, where all people are well feed, clothed and sheltered then production and consumption paterns will have to change. The concentration of wealth and consumption in the US must be stoped by revolution in the 3rd world.

For the middle class to be even more filthy rich after revolution means that imperialism has to be increased to feed more consumption. Right now the middle class and a large portion of the working class consume more then they deserve and what the world can support. When revolution finally comes to the USA, after the neo-colonies liberate themselves, the middles class lifestyle will be dramatically reduced to world working class standards that a socialist system can cope with.

So no, everyone wont be filthy rich. Even after years of world Communism, people wont be filthy rich, no one will consume more then a fair share.
haha....its things liek this that will make people in ther counries, where a commie revoeltuoin would work according to marx,say "umm..screw commies"

[Goatse]

1) Russia under a foward looking czar would have been far bette r off then under stalin, and almost all of the progres in russia came from the more capitilist envaodrs

The revolution put Lenin in place, moron.



2) China was still a backwords place till the late '70s when den jo peng reformed it and allowed capitislm to florish.

No, advancements were being made already, it wasn't as backwards in the 70s as it had been.

And also, with capitalism in place, a lot of the adancement has been stopped - outside of the cities, poverty is as widespread as it always has been.

[Si Pinto]

Si Pinto I love how you glossed over my legitimate criticism of your play school utopia and brushed over them with your purile, juveninle humor, (which I loved btw).


If it's so 'purile' to you, why did you find it funny? or are you just trying to impress us with your vocabulary.


My point actually was that workers today are completely satisfied with unions and are unwilling to disrupt their stable well paid jobs with revolutionary ideas which have become obsolete in the extreme.

and my point was that that is a pile of horseshit.

If you actually read my response rather than laughing at it's purility you'd see that I mentioned the fact that the vast majority of workers in the world DO NOT BELONG TO UNIONS!!!

and as for the rest of us being so content with our unions.....

Firstly, as a worker and a member of a union, I think it's bullshit.

You are 'idle' so how the hell do you know what the atmosphere is like inside a workplace, let alone a union.

Secondly.....even if what you said was true.....as has been previously mentioned, the revolution will happen when the people are not happy and decide to revolt.


Why have a family if you cant afford them? Its the height of arrogance to expect everyone else you finance you.

That is one of the stupidist and arrogantly sick comments you've ever made...which is saying something.

Who are YOU to decide what a person can or can't do, or is that a cappies perogative?

If you look at the poorest families in 3rd world countries (even some 1st world ones) people have families purely so the offspring can bring in enough wages to feed them.

Not that you'd give a shit anyway.

You probably think they should all die and decrease the 'surplus' population.......ever read Charles Dickens?


And yes we are all the artist of our life because we and only we control our destiny.

:lol: :lol:

Your not exactly Robbie Burns are you, but I'll give you a point for trying.

You 'Wee sleekit, cow'rin, tim'rous beastie'.


I wouldnt work a hateful job. Its stupid. I dont work at all actually.


Someone has to do the dirty jobs. Do you think most street cleaners want to be street cleaners?

Some people don't have the 'luxuary' of thinking certain jobs beneath them.

Your beginning to sound like a lazy, overpriveliged bag of shit to me.

Were you born with a 'silver spoon' in you mouth or something?


NO! Nobody is constrained unless they accept they are. Thats the difference between you and me.


No, because a revolution is everyone 'not accepting' their constraint by the capitalists, so I'm all for it.


You obviously dont know the motivating power of money.

If it's so motivational why are you unemployed?



There is more than enough food on this planet true, but unless the Africans or North Koreans can find some useful occupation which generates cash who is going to sell it to them? You?

Why don't you check were your food and household items actually come from......you'll find that a lot come from Africa...Latin America...Asia...so how come they are still starving and way below the poverty line in these places, using your own quote?

Because capitalists like you use there labours but pay them a hideously small amount compared to what their labours gain for the capitalist, this 'missing' difference is kept by the capitalist.

and you were a Marxist at 13???

What was this a fan club for the Marx Brothers???

No wonder you dropped out.


Dont make me laugh. I mean youre really going to work for free arnt you?


As an overpriviliged unemployed cappie I wouldn't expect you to understand the concepts of voluntary work.

Leave that for the plebs below you right?

Don't break sweat now will you?


And please stop it with your juvenile threats. Since Ive come on this site ive been threatened with death many times.

Well grow up then.


I dont live in public housing!!!! I was talking about under your system!!!!!!!!! Ill thank you not to cast aspersions.


A 'stuck up' unemployed person, eh?

Do you have your own special kiosk at the benefits office?

Red carpet and caviar at the desk?

Your right I should stop with the humour...your not worth it.

If I told you how I really feel about you, I'd get banned.


AH! Because there is no incentive to invent!!!!! Do you know I was reading the North Korean news website.

Which is no doubt were all the ignorant cappies go for their Daily Commie news eh?

Is NK communist? Now we've been here before haven't we...go on think.....you can do it......

Did Einstein, Newton, de Vinci etc all do it for money!!!!

Did Einstein sit there thinking....."I need a nice new kitchen....I know I'll come up with a theory about relativity......"

You obviously don't know the motivational power of being clever and wanting to prove it.


Is that an insult?

No it was a personal observation.


Name one revolutoin where the clique has disbanded!!!


Name one revolution that has resulted in communism!!!


Well, youve obviously never read Aristophanes? His last extant work should explain everything.


Well you've obvisouly never read Marx.

Your an ex-marxist who doesn't know his basic economic thesis.


Trust me anti-red is a libertarian.

So your insulting Anti-Red now as well?

[theraven]

The revolution put Lenin in place, moron.


sure but lenins 5 year (or 7 year i always forget) plans were disasters. stalin at least did a decent job industlirazing them, but russias still in the crapper.






No, advancements were being made already, it wasn't as backwards in the 70s as it had been.

well sure advancedmetns had been made, they moved maybe to the 14th century. they were still wayyy behind.


And also, with capitalism in place, a lot of the adancement has been stopped - outside of the cities, poverty is as widespread as it always has been.

poverty never wasn't wide spread, the idffernce is moe and more peole are moving up and have more.

[Comrade-Z]

My point actually was that workers today are completely satisfied with unions and are unwilling to disrupt their stable well paid jobs with revolutionary ideas which have become obsolete in the extreme.

Completely satisfied? In the U.S. union membership is falling and cynicism is increasing. Unions are gradually proving themselves more and more worthless to workers as the unions can no longer even maintain working class reforms gained in the past, much less win new concessions. You know, with the capitalist class pressed to adopt a neo-liberal agenda and all. Also consider:

"The various interests and conditions of life within the ranks of the proletariat are more and more equalized, in proportion as machinery obliterates all distinctions of labor, and nearly everywhere reduces wages to the same low level."

Globalization. Incredibly foresighted of Marx. If technology and machinery obliterates the distinction between reading an X-ray exam or producing sneakers in the U.S. or China, then wages will be reduced to the lowest common denomenator. Indeed, average real wages in the U.S. have declined since the 1970s and leisure time has tumbled. Sounds to me like the worldwide capitalist class is cooking a recipe for disaster. When there is no more distinction in wages within the U.S. working class and/or between the U.S. and Chinese working classes, then what is there left to keep these workers from uniting? Formerly their priviledged and disadvantaged positions, respectively, might have given rise to opposing sentiments, nationalistic or otherwise, but what now when all of these workers find themselves in the exact same boat? Sounds like a recipe for unprecedented solidarity to me.


Dont make me laugh. I mean youre really going to work for free arnt you?

No, we will work to enrich ourselves, via helping to produce for general use and thereby perpetuate the awesome system that is communism.

[Orange Juche]

I'm whats called a council communist, an anti-authoritarian belief in which democratially elected workers councils (with members who are immediately recallable) both create a democratic workers society, and form a loose establishment of a governance system. So heres my view on it:





"1. So you have won the revolution, but the majority of people don't like it, and the only reason you won was firepower, what do you say to them?"

It will have to be a popular revolution for ultimate success. Granted, there will be people who adamently oppose the revolution, but as long as they do not pose a threat to the proletariat physically or in a societal structure sense (they could still hand out cappie flyers, but arming up and attempting to overthrow the new society would be forbidden. As would any other action involving arming up.)






"2. Would a person be able to open their own business in your society?"

In a sense yes, but in this society it will be much different than if you open a business in the modern United States. People would be allowed to create and provide services, but they would not be making money. Nobody would be making money... it would be a society of community, of "to everyone according to his needs, everyone according to his ability." You could not create a profit making machine, as there would be no monitary profit to be made. You could also not simply "run" a factory or industry, as those would be run by the democratically elected (and immediately recallable) workers councils.







"3. Would a person have any right to live on their own land or have privacy or would the "committee" decide that?"

People would have personal space, yes. You wouldn't see people with square miles worth of land to live on, but everyone would have their own personal space. You also have to remember that when a society like this comes about, the people wont view it with the mindset that someone who believes in capitalism would. People would far more than likely work together and help eachother in their own neighborhoods, with a community oriented attitude. In alot of the United States (at least where I've been), people seem relatively more kept to themselves.







"4. I am currently what is regarded as a middle class American, would I be poorer or richer than I am today in your society?"

Poor and rich define different levels of wealth in society, and when there is virtually no disparity, poor and rich will cease to exist. But to answer what you're wondering, it seems more than likely that you would definately be happy with your living situation. You definately wouldn't be in a "poor" situation or anything like that.








"5. I understand that you guys would like to let tons of immigrants in, well, I know that, but how many, is there no limit, or would borders be completely open?"

There would be no established nation-states. Therefore, any immigration would involve only moving to somewhere else on the planet. It would not involve "citizenship" or "visas" or any of those things.







"6. Let's say that you ran America and all the capitalists moved to one area like one or two states and tried to break away, would you let them or would communism be so important that you wouldn't?"

There would be no states to break away from, as I've said before. If a bunch of capitalists went to where people were living and tried to formulate a nation-state and a capitalist situation, the proletariat would be obligated to rise up to stop them from oppressing those who live there. Asking that is like me asking you, "if every neo-nazi in the U.S. moved to 1 or 2 states and tried to break away, would you let them?" Of course not. Nobody should allow systems of oppression to "break away" from anywhere.







"7. Would your society be panarchy, where different forms of government and economic systems coexist peacefully, or would it be under a centralized government?"

It would be a world where society was fully democratic. There would be no government.







"8. What would you do to those who disagree with you and resist your plans?"

Only disagree? Laugh. Violently resist? Respond to protect the right of all people to have a democratic society.






"9. Would we have an immediate communist society or a transitional government, and if a transitional government, would it be democratic and would we have the power to vote you guys out of office if we didn't like you?"

In a revolution, the current system would be overthrown. There would be no transition.






"10. Would I be forced to do things I don't want to like, like mandatory "volunteerism" to help the "poor" and stuff?"

You wouldn't be forced to do anything. Although, if you chose to contribute nothing to society (meaning, work, or help in any kind of way), you wouldn't get much out of it.

[Hiero]

haha....its things liek this that will make people in ther counries, where a commie revoeltuoin would work according to marx,say "umm..screw commies"



Liek Totly ummm Ahahaha.

I never knew it was possible for someone to type dribble. Learn to spell and make coherent sentances.