Canadian Revolution

[Avtomatov]

If a socialist revolution or coup occured in canada, do you think the united states would invade?

[Janus]

If the US identified them as a threat towards "national security" then yes. I would think that the US would try to initiate a coup though but an invasion is likely since there's a significant amount of trade and exchange between the two.

[R_P_A_S]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2006, 04:38 AM
If a socialist revolution or coup occured in canada, do you think the united states would invade?
i love canada! when i went there the peopel where so kind. i would go there and fight for them.

[STI]

Well, as long as things weren't getting too "out of hand" on the home front, then yeah, they'd invade.

Whether they'd be successful is another issue altogether. I mean, they're having enough trouble managing the Iraqi resistance as it is... imagine trying to occupy a place as big as Canada with the entire united working class fighting against them!

[Tekun]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2006, 05:44 AM

Whether they'd be successful is another issue altogether. I mean, they're having enough trouble managing the Iraqi resistance as it is... imagine trying to occupy a place as big as Canada with the entire united working class fighting against them!
An invasion of Canada is hard to fathom under any circumstances...Canda is far too important to the rest of the world for the US to ever threaten
A coup is more likely if the event ever came to pass...with so many ppl of different backgrounds and beliefs, injecting some sort of underground resistance to a revolution would be easier for the Yankees

Saying this, I think an American invasion of Mexico is more likely to occur than an invasion of Canada
Now more than ever....if the courts ever gave Lopez Obrador the presidency, seeing how he's the next Hugo Chavez according to some, the US would go into Mexico, remove AMLO, and put their candidate back in power
Talk about a double standard...I guess Bush's 2000 victory was totally legit :rolleyes:

[Whitten]

The international pressure would be too great for the US to use a real invasiona s anything but a last resort. They'l;l use the CIA to organise coup attempts, and attack the Canadia infrastructure, in a hope of removing the communist party from power.

[bolshevik butcher]

I would expect they would if it was some sort of 1917 style revolution. I woulc also expect them to have the support of most of the imperialist countries' ruling class' in this action. However it is also worth noting that if such an event occured it is also very likely that the working class would be far more active organised and militant in America and other western countries. It is almost inconceivable that class consciousness would rise in Candada in isolation from other countries.

[Dreckt]

If Canada ever had a revolution before any other country, then I think that the rest of the world would follow quickly after theirs. But after all, the conservaite party did win in the latest elections, so a revolution is probably far away...

[Psy]

Of course the US would send troops but it would be to "restore order" like in Haiti now and the UN would back the US saying "peace keepers" are needed in Canada to "restore order" in Canada. All over the US news it would be called a "peace keeping mission" and that the US troops are there to "help Canada return to a functioning democracy".

Odds are the US would never say they are invading Canada.

[Felicia]

well, the US invaded us once....it didn't go so well for them. :rolleyes:

I really don't think they could occupy canada, due to the size alone. I also don't believe Canadians from coast to coast would come together to form some kind of collective struggle against the government. We've had some small scale stuff (but yet large concidering) over the years. The 'chocolate bar' movement in the 1940's (Youth across canada protested the hike in chocolate bar prices. It was thought that the youth were apart of a group that was a front for a communist organization spreading the 'seed' of marxism, lol), the FLQ crisis of the seventies, OKA, QC in the 90's and Caledonia right now, if there are more, I can't think of them. Over the years we've managed to stick up for and fight for what we believe in. Taking into concideration that two of the events on my list took place in Quebec, and two were/are by Aboriginals. Things would have to get really bad for the average canadian for them to do anything. I remember last summer the gas prices were so high that even my father was calling for a boycott.... and that's a rare event.

So, I've learning two things from 'canadian' struggles.

1) That the French (Les Quebecois et l'Acadiens) are more willing to fuckin fight for something. Perhaps because they're a French minority 'oppressed' by the English Majority (this goes waaay back to Acadian house/village burning by the Brits, etc), and

2) The Native peoples...oh how I love thee, They've been undeniabley oppressed for centuries upon centuries, they've been murdered, stripped of their families and 'assimilated' into 'white european culture' (an oxymoron in itself, imo) suicide rates skyrocket, substance abuse shoot through the roof (alcoholism and gas/solvent hoving) and of course an insane poverty rate. And when some group wants to build something worthless on their precious sacred land, they're there to put up the fight of their lives, they aren't takin this shit anymore. I love it, I tell ya.

ok, so, back on topic :blush: ...... now, I don't believe a socialist revolution/coup will ever happen, but if it did..... yes, I think the US would act accordingly. Be that an invasion, or a counter-coup. Probably increased military support to the existing Canadian government. There's only one thing that the average Canadian hates worse than having a 'revolution' or 'coup' disrupting their peaceful towns and beautiful gardens...... and that's the US thinking they're in the right to send troups here for any reason. That would, and I'd put any amount of money on this, make more canadians (apolitical or otherwise) step up and get involved if jsut to fight against the US. They'd be fightin for a revolution whether that's what they truely want or not! lol.

[Edit: Sorry, the only thing I have interest these days is Native struggle.. :lol:
Thinkin about fightin for my Status Card so I can join them :ph34r: ]

[STI]

1) That the French (Les Quebecois et l'Acadiens) are more willing to fuckin fight for something. Perhaps because they're a French minority 'oppressed' by the English Majority (this goes waaay back to Acadian house/village burning by the Brits, etc), and

It's a mistake to speak of the Quebecois and the Acadians as though they were one group. The two have very distinct histories, and it's arguable whether the Acadians even constitute a "nation" unto themselves.

It's true that the Quebecois more frequently fight for "something"... because they have more things to fight for (national independence from the domestic imperialism of the Canadian state). Of course, there was all that labour hullabaloo in '78...


now, I don't believe a socialist revolution/coup will ever happen

So what do you think will happen?


Thinkin about fightin for my Status Card so I can join them

I thought about that too... you have to have more than 1/32nd native anscestry though, right?

[Psy]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2006, 07:55 AM
We've had some small scale stuff (but yet large concidering) over the years. The 'chocolate bar' movement in the 1940's (Youth across canada protested the hike in chocolate bar prices. It was thought that the youth were apart of a group that was a front for a communist organization spreading the 'seed' of marxism, lol), the FLQ crisis of the seventies, OKA, QC in the 90's and Caledonia right now, if there are more, I can't think of them.

You forgot the largest, the Ottawa trek (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On-to-Ottawa-Trek) in 1935 that was suppose to be all the unemployed meeting up in Ottawa (including some from the US) for a very large protest but it never got past Regina.

[Wiesty]

Ya, the chances of us ever having a socialist revolution are very slim (seeing as how we cant even seem to get the ndp more seats than the quebecois) But, if it ever did happen and america attacked, most would be fighting just to get the americans. Alot of Canadians are already skeptical about the americans, especially now in bush's run in office, if they ever attacked us, we would be damn right pissed, not to mention we would probably get support from the british, because canada still takes leigance to the queen.

[Ferg]

An overthrow of the Government would be possible. But after that, you'd have to wait for years to do another one. Canadians HATE political change. That's why Martin's government wasen't destroyed first time round.

[Psy]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2006, 03:43 PM
Ya, the chances of us ever having a socialist revolution are very slim (seeing as how we cant even seem to get the ndp more seats than the quebecois) But, if it ever did happen and america attacked, most would be fighting just to get the americans. Alot of Canadians are already skeptical about the americans, especially now in bush's run in office, if they ever attacked us, we would be damn right pissed, not to mention we would probably get support from the british, because canada still takes leigance to the queen.
If Canada had a revolution odds are it would no longer have any leigance to the queen. Also the capitalist would call it peace keeping as the capitalist world wouldn't recognize the revolution thus send troops to maintain the capitalist goverment.

[Felicia]

STI,


It's a mistake to speak of the Quebecois and the Acadians as though they were one group. The two have very distinct histories, and it's arguable whether the Acadians even constitute a "nation" unto themselves.

I felt I had to add the Acadians, they've both been oppressed and I couldn't leave them out :)


So what do you think will happen?

I don't think anything will happen. Unless something happens in the US and we follow suit.


I thought about that too... you have to have more than 1/32nd native anscestry though, right?

shit, you're kiddin me, that's it? 1/32 is like.....having a full blooded great, great grand parent? I think I got it in a native great grand parent, lol (or is it great-great? I'm not sure exactly). edit: meh, I found out the they guy my dad says was 'full-blooded' had my last name (which is irish) so I think it was his mother that was full-blooded, who married the irish-named guy, and then had a kid (a half-blood). Either way it should still be a 1/32 percentage for me. But none of my future children could claim status

I've looked into it, you actually have to have a tribe willing to accept you and teach you the ways and make you a band member. You also have to prove your lineage through birth cirtificates, documents, etc. Which doesn't help me out because my great grand father is said to have been Comanche (they're in the oklahoma area now) and there aren't any around here to adopt me, lol. Personally, I always thought he was Mi'kmaq, I guess I'll have to do some searching and find out. If your male, you can be DNA tested to search for native on your father's side (they check the Y chromosome) aswell as your mothers (the X). If you're female however, they can only search your mothers genes (we don't have a Y chromosome). Which sucks because my native is on my dad's side. However, if you have a full blooded brother (which I do, yay), he can have the DNA test done and it'll count for any of his full sisters. I don't know if you can use the DNA test results to get status because it's about more than the tax break, but it would certainly help you prove your lineage. The status card really doesn't do anything for you (tax break, cheap university) unless you live on a reserve, but you can hunt whenever you want, lol. It would be more of a show of solidarity on my part.

I guess you have to start by talkin to all the old people in your family.... I think I'm going to call my dad right now and see if we can go 'down yonder' and visit the real old great unlcles, I think there's one left alive, if not his wife is still alive and has lots of old pictures and newspaper clippings. edit: I called him and it's all a go, here's hopin the old woman doesn't die before I get there.... my dad said she probably wouldn't let my take any documents with me either, but we'll see what I can get away with :D I've got to make copies, jeesh

If I could actually get status that'd be sweet.....I'd be the whitest friggin [racist term] around (sorry that's racist, but me and my sis don't use it in a nagative way :P )

[Commie Girl]

I have an adopted son, 14 now, who is 1/4 Sekani (http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?PgNm=TCE&Params=A1SEC827926); the band is fromNorth of Prince George, BC. In 2000, we went to the "Land Claim signing ceremony", it was awesome. Anyway, you gotta love the militancy of the Native groups! :D

[STI]

Originally posted by Felicia+--> (Felicia)I don't think anything will happen. Unless something happens in the US and we follow suit.
[/b]

Then why bother trying?


shit, you're kiddin me, that's it? 1/32 is like.....having a full blooded great, great grand parent?

I wasn't saying 1/32nd was all you needed.... I was asking because that's what fraction of my anscestry is Native.



If I could actually get status that'd be sweet.....I'd be the whitest friggin 'wagon burner' around (sorry that's racist, but me and my sis don't use it in a nagative way tongue.gif

Just edit it out. If I were to use the terms "wetback" or "spear-chucker", but followed it with "(sorry that's racist, but me and my brother don't use it in a negative way)", it wouldn't fly.


Weisty
Ya, the chances of us ever having a socialist revolution are very slim (seeing as how we cant even seem to get the ndp more seats than the quebecois)

That's stupid. The NDP are nothing but a bunch of class-traiting shits who talk a bit of working class game (poorly, at that).

[Wiesty]

well they're the cloest major party to communism we have.

[Avtomatov]

I HATE THE NDP.

Someday im going to start my own politcal party in canada. Ill call it the socialist party.

[Felicia]

I don't think anything will happen. Unless something happens in the US and we follow suit.


Then why bother trying?

I'm not trying :rolleyes:

There's a difference between working for a total revolution and just working for gradual change, like passing new bills, fighting against privatised healthcare, supporting gay marriage, etc. These aren't 'drastic changes, but much needed improvements. Change doesn't have to happen drastically in a bloddy mess, but if it happened I'd be there.




shit, you're kiddin me, that's it? 1/32 is like.....having a full blooded great, great grand parent?

I wasn't saying 1/32nd was all you needed.... I was asking because that's what fraction of my anscestry is Native.
oh, that's not how it looked. I've heard that you only need to be about 6-10 percent, which would make 1/32 look reasonable.



If I could actually get status that'd be sweet.....I'd be the whitest friggin 'wagon burner' around (sorry that's racist, but me and my sis don't use it in a nagative way tongue.gif

Just edit it out. If I were to use the terms "wetback" or "spear-chucker", but followed it with "(sorry that's racist, but me and my brother don't use it in a negative way)", it wouldn't fly.

ya know, don't think I will. Not to be offensive, but I'm somewhat proud of the fact that the natives fought back and scalped and 'wagoned burned'. And if I actually turn out to be part 'comanche' than they would have belonged to the blackfoot tribe, the one tribe that killed more non-natives than any other. It would be like denying my heritage in some sick way. Besides, I was referring to myself, not natives as a whole, I'd never call them that, or anything like that it's disrespectful. I am however, allowed to disrespect myself :P

edit: I'll take those words out incase there's a native here who finds it offensive, personally I don't, but meh. I don't actually look native so I don't have to deal with stereotypes first hand.

[Eastside Revolt]

For a progressive revolution to take place throughout the entire nation of Canada, it would have to be during, or after the same occurance down south. This extremely unlikely.

In individual cities and other small geographic areas, it is much more likely.

[STI]

Originally posted by Felicia

There's a difference between working for a total revolution and just working for gradual change, like passing new bills, fighting against privatised healthcare, supporting gay marriage, etc.

There certainly is: namely that the latter is wholly ineffective in creating permanent, fundamental change.

So you'll forgive me if I'm altogether unenthused by


These aren't 'drastic changes, but much needed improvements. Change doesn't have to happen drastically in a bloddy mess, but if it happened I'd be there.


"Much needed improvements" that have already happened... and are well on their way to failing!. Simply put, capitalism is getting older and rustier. There just isn't the "spare tire" that there used to be to pay for public healthcare or a social safety net.

So when it comes to things like changes to the class structure of society and the emancipation of the working class ('magine!), it has to be drastic, and we can expect it to be bloody.

But it's good to know what side of the barricades you'd be on, for what small consolation that provides.

[Cheung Mo]

Forget a fucking revolution: Those motherfucking assholes would not even be able to tolerate Prime Minister Bob Rae...lol

[STI]

I hope you were kidding. Bob Rae is a first-rate class traitor if ever there was one.

[ZACKist]

I would say that a revolution that occured in Canada (and for that matter, Mexico) would most surely promote revolution in the US as well.

I would think that it would definitely fuel contradictions and enable a lot of revolutionaires to promote socialism and communism. With the fueled contradictions, while the possitive side of them being an influx of revolutionary actions in the US, it would also more than likely have the negative effects of invasion/coup attempts by the US imperialists.

But hey, Marxists are not fortune-tellers!

[Eastside Revolt]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2006, 05:58 PM

So what do you think will happen?

I don't think anything will happen. Unless something happens in the US and we follow suit.
Yes, thoughout the entire nation maybe. But in the cities there is a definite possibility.

Skyrocketting real estate prices, depleting social programs, a growing military, and our governments' freindly association with the yanks (yes including the liberals). These are all reasons with which I could see your average urban Canadian growing a class consciousness. :D

I admit, things don't look good and if they don't improve soon, I am seriously thinking about saying goodbye to this continent. :P

[Knowledge 6 6 6]

the components are there for change, however it seems that neoliberal capitalism seems to be top priority. Things have reached a breaking point and thensome for the native inhabitants of Canada. Things like Oka, Dudley George and Caledonia are but small reminders to the Canadian state and society that they are on borrowed land and borrowed time.

If I get accepted to do my Masters, I'll be doing heavy research on Canada's social policy and what steps are needed in order to improve it.