Opinion Of The People

[MKS]

I am curious to know what certain Leftists hold as an opinion of "the people". I ask because I am curious to know why this faction of the Left wants so ardently to help the masses but for the most part detests their religions, cultures, and general attitudes towards commericalism and consumerism. Lets face it, neo-liberalism and capitalism in general holds all its success to the demands of the people. We are responsible for our governments, and economic systems.

[violencia.Proletariat]

neo-liberalism and capitalism in general holds all its success to the demands of the people. We are responsible for our governments, and economic systems.

In theory we are responsible for what our government does as citiznes. In reality we have no control or decisions on what they do.

[Dean]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2006, 10:45 PM
I am curious to know what certain Leftists hold as an opinion of "the people". I ask because I am curious to know why this faction of the Left wants so ardently to help the masses but for the most part detests their religions, cultures, and general attitudes towards commericalism and consumerism. Lets face it, neo-liberalism and capitalism in general holds all its success to the demands of the people. We are responsible for our governments, and economic systems.
The people must have the right to controlling their own lives, and social institutions. IF they agree to do something bad, it remains bad, and resistance to that end is good, but the people in general are not an ideological friend to freedom, and are certainly not its enemy. Most alliance to athority is a self - destructive indoctrination, and to claim that it is the friend of the people is illogical.

[MKS]

In theory we are responsible for what our government does as citiznes. In reality we have no control or decisions on what they do.

In reality we hold all the power over government and economy. It is a known fact that all governments hold the opinion of the majority, without it they would not exist. Whether it is outright acceptance and support, apathy or fear, the people are still responsible for any form of power that is held over them. It is simple arithmetic.

[which doctor]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2006, 05:45 PM
I am curious to know what certain Leftists hold as an opinion of "the people". I ask because I am curious to know why this faction of the Left wants so ardently to help the masses but for the most part detests their religions, cultures, and general attitudes towards commericalism and consumerism. Lets face it, neo-liberalism and capitalism in general holds all its success to the demands of the people. We are responsible for our governments, and economic systems.
People today are so alienated from their true selves and emotions. I want to help bring people out of these pits of garbage called capitalism, consumerism, religion, nazism, etc.

[Anti-Red]

You see there is this little problem with you guys, you assume everyone agrees with you. While most on this forum do, most in society don't.

[MKS]

You see there is this little problem with you guys, you assume everyone agrees with you

Exactly. The majority population considers the views of the "revolutionary left" to be extreme and dangerous to liberty and equality. So why doesn’t the Left work to join the people instead of alienating them? It seems that all the factions of the Left are fixed in a mechanical dogmatism that is antiquated and steeped in amoral ideology.

[violencia.Proletariat]

In reality we hold all the power over government and economy.

Phsically we could. But thats not the case right now. The average citizen has no influence on the government.


It is a known fact that all governments hold the opinion of the majority

Thats not a fact. If it were the case we would have national healthcare and not be in Iraq right now.


the people are still responsible for any form of power that is held over them

I would agree with you on this. We theoretically are responsible for what the government does in our name. We physically do not cause what they do however.

[MKS]

Phsically we could. But thats not the case right now. The average citizen has no influence on the government

the masses have the complele ability to "influence" or even topple government. Apathy and indifference is tantamount to acceptance.


Thats not a fact. If it were the case we would have national healthcare and not be in Iraq right now

The people dont want national healthcare because taxes would increase drasticaly, no matter what some might say the majority of people like things the way they are. With regards to the war in Iraq, the consensus is almost split down the middle if the war in Iraq is justified, but the majority again do not think withdrawl would be a responsible response. And even those who oppose the war and want immediate withdrawl are too afraid to risk their personal comfort in order to advance their cause. In every nation the people allow government to exist, that is a fact, and they allow it either through direct support or through indifference and passive existence all conceptions and programs of that government. To deny that fact is to be ignorant of the basic law of society.



We physically do not cause what they do however.

Yes we do. Like I said before, we can complain all we want to about dependence on oil, but we still consume at record highs, we can complain about poverty and child labour but we spend and consume with little regard for the production of affects on the workers, we can protest the actions of our president and congress, but we never move beyond the established boundaries of acceptable dissension. Just remember most protestors have to fill out permit requests and register with the municipal authorities and be given permission to gather. So no matter how "radical" your protest, your are still under the control of a system.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Apathy and indifference is tantamount to acceptance.

1. Just because youre not in the street with a Molotov cocktail doesn't mean you're apathetic and indifferent to your conditions.

2. Even if it did, that argument would mean that Black African slaves in the Southern US accepted their enslavement.

[violencia.Proletariat]

http://www.pollingreport.com/iraq.htm

6/14-15/06

"Do you favor or oppose the U.S. war with Iraq?" Half sample, MoE ± 4.5

Favor 38%
Oppose 54%
Unsure 8%


A clear majority, the US government does not listen to its population in this situation.



but we spend and consume with little regard for the production of affects on the workers, we can protest the actions of our president and congress, but we never move beyond the established boundaries of acceptable dissension.

The war in Iraq has nothing to do with securing oil suplies out of necessity for the greater use of the population.

It's about profit and economic motive for a businesses and their partners in government.


we can complain all we want to about dependence on oil, but we still consume at record highs

And we could buy more from Venzuela or be more friendly to Iran and secure oil that way. Invading a nation was strictly the government and business's decision. They created false consent with that "wmd's" bullshit.


The people dont want national healthcare because taxes would increase drasticaly, no matter what some might say the majority of people like things the way they are.

http://www.pollingreport.com/health3.htm

1/20-25/06

"Do you think the federal government should guarantee health insurance for all Americans, or isn't this the responsibility of the federal government?"

Should Guarantee 62%

Not Their
Responsibility 31%

Unsure 2%

Another clear majority in favor of national healthcare.

[MKS]

Even if it did, that argument would mean that Black African slaves in the Southern US accepted their enslavement.

the ones who did not rebel, did in a way accept it and chose to live in chains rather than risk death for freedom. Imagine if they rebeled ( some did), in some US states the population slaves outnumbered the white population. Modern Haiti for example was in part founded by rebel slaves led by Toussaint L'Ouverture, who led slaves in a successfull uprising against the French colonial powers.
If someone tried to china me and my family I would fight, I would rather die than be a slave. Someone once said, "workers of the world unite you have nothing to lose but your chains", hmm wonder who said that. Emilio Zapata once said, " I would rather die on my feet than live on my knees".


Just because youre not in the street with a Molotov cocktail doesn't mean you're apathetic and indifferent to your conditions

No it just means that you put limits to the amount of effort you put into "resitance", or you adhere to the limits already in place, either way you stagger your movement, and at times stop it altogether.

[Anti-Red]

Ulitmately the reason you guys are "revolutionary" is that you know you can't win at the polls.

[power... UNLIMITED POWER!]

Originally posted by Anti-[email protected] 15 2006, 02:07 PM
Ulitmately the reason you guys are \"revolutionary\" is that you know you can\'t win at the polls.
:lol: These guys have just been owned, not that taht will stop them attempting development of the revolutionary consicousness.

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by Anti-[email protected] 15 2006, 02:07 PM
Ulitmately the reason you guys are "revolutionary" is that you know you can't win at the polls.
:rolleyes: Yes because the polls are an expretion of public sentiment entirely aside from medai and government bias. Tit.