FIDEL - :-)

[Larissa]

I'M MEETING FIDEL CASTRO IN PERSON THIS SATURDAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I HAVE JUST RECEIVED THE CONFIRMATION FROM THE CUBAN EMBASSY IN BUENOS AIRES

:biggrin: :cool:

I CAN'T EXPRESS HOW I FEEL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


(Edited by Larissa at 6:32 pm on May 23, 2003)

[Soul Rebel]

Oh my ****!!!!!!! Lariss- how did you pull that one off? Im so excited for you!!!!

[canikickit]

That's fantastic Larissa. Congratulations, you are a true international hero.


I CAN'T EXPRESS HOW I FEEL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Those exclamation marks almost did the trick. :wink:

Give Fidel my personal best, tell him I light a candle every night in his honour.

Tell him about Che-Lives aswell, tell him to come on and post and I will demolish him in a debate about Bob Marley's embryo.

[Guardia Bolivariano]

Larissa kiss him like you were me!

[Dirty Commie]

Take pictures and post them.
I'll believe you then and only then...I wan't to believe you now.

[ComradeJunichi]

Holy shit! That's amazing news, Larissa! I've always wanted to meet Fidel. AHHH!!! Cheers! I wish I was you.

[Zombie]

You are one lucky mama!;)
Seriously, I hope you take pics and post them here, that would be amazing!

Ok i'm having a smoke and a glass of whisky in your honor now, cheers ;)

.A.

[Dirty Commie]

I'll make make myself a cheese sandwich in your honor

[redstar2000]

Ask him if he remembers a skinny right-handed first baseman from the summer of '64.

Great news, Larissa, greet him for all of us. :biggrin:

:cool:

[Ze]

Please let him know that there are many even within the United States who are grateful for his accomplishments.

[praxis1966]

Larissa, you are my hero! Fuck Anika Sorenstam! If you ever come to Florida, I will follow you around kissing the ground you walk on!

[Ian]

That is so great, I'm so happy for you! :)

[Dirty Commie]

Tell him about che-lives.

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

Cool, my uncle had a meeting with him too, because my uncle was the "righthand" of the leader of a communist country.

But anyway good luck, what are you meeting him for actually?

[Sabocat]

Fantastic news....I envy you. Make sure to tell him all the support that he has in the U$!!!

Tell him to make room for 2 more residents! :biggrin:

[GCusack]

Congratulations Larissa, thats amazing!! I raise my pint of Guiness to u and say, in my slightly slurred Gaelic..... Slainte! and good luck! Maith thu!
Congratulations again!!! Send him our good Wishes for the future!!!

Excellent news! please post pics when u get back!!!

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

I second all the kind regards of all the comrades in this thread. Also, tell him that there a Brazilian lad named Victor who thinks he's a hero for standing up to the evil threchery of U$ imperialism. Tell him about Che-lives, well be waiting for him. I envy you so much Larissa, tell Castro that his revolutionary efforts are greatly appreciated by the American left as well as us, the next generation of Socialists who will carry forth the cause which he fought for, to bring Communism to the people. I am high right now, on the news of your visit!

[Larissa]

I've been invited to a cocktail party at the Cuban embassy to reciev him tomorrow when he arrives here. There's not going to be too many people, I think about not more than 30 people were invited. My husband's office has been chosen as the operations center for the Cuban Press also. I'm so excited looking forward to meeting him tomorrow! I'll try to get a pic to post here!
Another good news is that my best friend (Claudia Camba) who is the leader of the movement "Free the Five" knows Fidel very well, and she has just been with him on May 1st, she also gave a speech in Cuba at the Plaza de la Revolución before thousands of people.

[Dirty Commie]

Your my new favorite living person who I know in some way shape or form.

[Comrade Daniel]

Sounds cool I hope you can post pictures soon.

[WUOrevolt]

Wow Larissa you are so lucky. Just be sure to tell him that not everyone in america hates him. Take pictures and post them.

[Pete]

It seems you are fulfilling many peoples dreams. For me it is just to hear him speak live. Felicitations.

[kingbee]

so unfair- he is the man! he even has a personality and a sense of humour (if you see him in interviews etc). you are now joining the likes of the manic street preachers and naomi cambell and kate moss (!) in meeting him

[Larissa]

I'VE MET HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HE INVITED US AGAIN TOMORROW FOR A LUNCH AT THE FOUR SEASONS (WHERE HE'S STAYING AT) I HOPE I'LL BE ABLE TO TAKE SOME PICS, WE WEREN'T ALLOWED AT THE EMBASSY (TO TAKE PHOTOS) BUT I THINK TOMORROW WE WILL, THOUGH.

MALTE!!!!
I ONLY TALKED TO HIM FOR ABOUT 5 MINUTES, AND I HAD THE CHANCE TO TELL HIM ABOUT THIS FORUM!!!!!!!!

[Organic Revolution]

that is so cool u met fidel... damn hes the man! lucky!

[Larissa]

he's SO GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Organic Revolution]

u gotta get some pictures.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

I very excited for you Larissa, what did you say about che-lives, what did he say about che-lives!!??

[synthesis]

That is fantastic!

[Pete]

Fidel looks so much like my friends dad. I swear they must be related some how!!

[Fiskebat]

Maaaaaaaaan! u gotta tell him to come to sweden and help us start a revolution here aswell ;) OOOOO He´s da maan!

Swweeeet! Cheers!

[Kez]

lucky lucky girl.

tell him to stop the betrayal of socialism in cuba, and make cuba socialist once more.

Also tell him to spread the revolution, for the very least for the cuban people themselves who will suffer if it is only socialism in one country

tell him to ban stalinism, and to continue the fight for world socialism.

[hawarameen]

if i could ask him ONE question i would ask him his oppinions on the future of cuba,

[Guest1]

how about, TK, we congratulate him on being able to run the country as he has which is more than any other leader is doing? He's walked a very dangerous journey, as have the cuban people. He has sacrificed much to help his people. And though the journey has not reached its end, we should not belittle what distance Fidel, and Cuba, have covered.

Viva!

[Kapitan Andrey]

Damn...you are so lucky! Say hello from me to Fidel !!!

[Urban Rubble]

Ask him if he wants to go smoke a doobie.

[Sensitive]

WOW! That is freaking cool Larissa!

[Kez]

granted hes a good chap, doesnt make him a socialist

first off he didnt start as a communist, onyl opportunism ledd him to communism.
Why does he live in a massive palace when so many cubans live in shitholes without running water?
Why is the island being divided into tourist areas (where normal cubans are forbidden to go unless they are working there)?
Why is he not spread the revolution to the extent he can?

shouldnt we forget about the nostalgic and romantic value of the revolution, and do somehting for the people of cuba
If cuba was marxist, people wouldnt be leaving and risking their lvies to go to a shithole in florida

Granted he sends so much health help to africa and other areas needed, and has a great literacy level, but having great intellect wont put food on ur plate at the end of the day.

[chamo]

Get Castro a che-lives account!

That's great news Larissa, hope you had a good time!:)


if i could ask him ONE question i would ask him his oppinions on the future of cuba,

He does tend to give long and detailed answers, a good thing. Bring a cushion.

[Lardlad95]

The Rapper K-OS looks like a black Fidel Castro, even dressed like him in his video that just came out, and mentioned Fidel in the Video

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Why does he live in a massive palace when so many cubans live in shitholes without running water?

Are you sure of this? From what I hear, he lives very, very discretely. Very few people even know where he lives and are unwilling to tell. That's just what i hear. Anyway, Kamo, I think you need to weigh in the fact that Fidel is the only man who has stood up to American imeprialism for this long and still manages to run a fucking island. I think he's doing marvelously considering the conditions that he has been placed under by the U$.

[Dan Majerle]

I reckon that Kramer from Seinfeld shares the same face as a younger castro. Not only that but they both have dark skin, are tall and trust me on the face, it's there! Seriously pay attention to Kramer next time you see Seinfeld and picture a young Fidel without a beard. Not too young. Like 30s or 40s.

[chamo]

Castro is doing well in Cuba, all things considering. Including the US Trade Embargo and the sanctions placed on it which the UN will not remove. Cuba is much better off than any other South American countries, it has one of the best education systems in the world and maybe even the greatest health system.

Seeing all these things which Castro seems able to do against all the odds, including attacks from Alpha66 and the lack of support after the Soviet bloc collapsed and any other socialist states. How can a country offer such superb services, health and education, and yet be unable to feed the people?

Anyway, I'm sure Larissa can give us the real deal.

[El Che]

I don`t like Castro and I don`t think he should come around here because this whole freedom of speech thing we got going here might be bad for his heart.

[the SovieT]

freedom of speech?

ROFL!!

FUCKING NICE JOKE!!!

a board where people are banned just for being stalinists and authoritarian and call it "freedom of speech" is a bloody good joke mate..

unless you consider taht giving all power to libertarians is freedom of speech...

this board has litle to do with freedom..



plus Larissa dont forget to ask Fidel one of his cigars for me :D

(in last resort steal him one :D :D :D )

[red rich]

i met a bloke in the pub the other night who looked like fidel. i asked him an he told me to fuck off n stop being so stupid.

[YerbaMateJ]

Larissa,

I am sooooooooooooooo excited for you. I can't IMAGINE how you must be feeling right now. I have not been able to really post like I used to due to school, but when Redstar2000 told me the news, I had to extend my congratulations. You have so much knowledge and Revolutionary spirit----you deserve this honor. Please let us know EVERYTHING that he says to you and YOU to him. This is a great moment!

Viva Larissa!

---YMj :biggrin:

[Larissa]

We finally did some pics during lunch, I'll post them as soon as I have them!

Later (at about )PM local time) he gave the most impressive speech ever (outside Cuba)
Check:
Argentines Cheer Fidel Castro's Speech
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/stor...2719347,00.html (http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-2719347,00.html)

I also had the chance to see Chávez, less than a meter where I was standing, who said hello to us.
*

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

no pressure, Larissa, but when do we get the details, comrade. We need all the details!

[Palmares]

Quote: from Larissa on 12:51 pm on May 23, 2003
I'M MEETING FIDEL CASTRO IN PERSON THIS SATURDAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I HAVE JUST RECEIVED THE CONFIRMATION FROM THE CUBAN EMBASSY IN BUENOS AIRES

:biggrin: :cool:

I CAN'T EXPRESS HOW I FEEL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


(Edited by Larissa at 6:32 pm on May 23, 2003)


Lucky little... Well done Comrade!!!

[chamo]

Hey you got into the Guardian. (Well, not personally)

My favourite newspaper:)

[El Che]

Okay, relative freedom of speech, happy now?

Its still more freedom than is awared to Cubans by your friend Castro. The former is a private website the latter is Nation, a society. You see whats wrong with this picture? Of course you don`t.

[SwedishCommie]

Raise your fist and say Hasta La Victoria Siempre from me!

[Pete]

You guys are scaring me....like teenaged girls whose friend just said hello to a backstreet boy 5 years ago...

[Felicia]

WOW, congratulations Lara. I had no clue that this thread was here or else I would have written sooner!!!

CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!

[Larissa]

Thank you all for your posts and PMs!!!!

For those of you who have no access to CC, this is what I've posted there:

Ok!! Here are the details! I still need my husband to bring the pics so I can post 'em, but I will, no later than this week.

At the embassy tehre were very few people but Fidel was in a hurry, so he greeted everyone (one by one) asked our names and what we did, who we were, etc. I had the chance to talk to him only for a very few minutes, but I told him about Che-lives as if posting here were the only thing I did in my life I told him (briefly) that this forum had members from all around the world and it was mainly a leftist forum open for political debate. Aftewards, I gave one of his people (a secretary or something like that) the URL hand written on my husband's business card. So I hope he visits the site one of these days, he is very much interested in Internet!

The next day (Sunday) we didn't have a single chance to see him because he was attending our newly elected president's sworn and speech ( http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/2938070.stm )

Yesterday, we spent a whole day with him but we were unable to talk to him, he taled and talked all day long to everyone. Very early in the morning, we all went to the San Martín monument where he put some flowers and talked about Che, and then to the José Martí monument where he put flowers too.
At noon we all had lunch with him at the Four Seasons Hotel (former Hyatt). There were about 350 people, all of us invited by the Cuban embassy. Politicians, journalists, artists, etc. I had the chance to meet president Chavez from Venezuela as well, he's a very nice person and said hello to all. I met Felipe Pérez Roque (I didn't talk to him, just listen while he and my husband held a short conversation), he is the Cuban Minister of Foreign Affairs.

At this lunch, there was a moment when everyone "smashed" Fidel against a wall and he politely asked us to step back, he stepeed onto a table!!! and taled to everyone and answered everybody's questions, the best thing is that while we were talking some photos of him, he asked his personal photgrapher for a camera and started taking pictures of all of us as well!!! He's cool! He is very kind, and he looked very healthy and strong. His magnetism is superb. He fascinated everyone, and he said some jokes.

At nicht he gave the most impressive speech he has ever given in a foreign country. There was an event scheduled at 7 PM at the University of Buenos Aires's School of Law, where about 300 - 400 hundred students were expected. But instead about 5,000 people showed up and he had to start the speech 2 hours later (it was a very cold night) at the outside stairs of the buiding.

Some Argentinean members of Che-lives (who I was not able to see there, though we have talked on the phone previously) attended the event as well. (Lautaro, Laucha, etc. - they travelled 450 kilometers from Mar del Plata to Buenos Aires only to see Fidel and hear his speech).

The pictures we were able to take at the lunch event in the hotel are still on a CD of my husband's mavica camera, as soon as he finishes his job he will bring them home and I promise I'll post them here. You will see us and behind us Fidel standing on the table talking to the people.

I really feel I've been pretty lucky despite I didn't have a chance to sit and talk to him for more than 5 minutes! I hope he reads or posts here some day!!! At least he now knows we exist!!

I also gave a friend of us, who is the boss of all the Cuba reportes, a copy of the International Leftist (First edition) so he can give it to Fidel.

Well, I hope you all get a chance to see him one day!

I've posted his speech (The Guardina and CNN's articles) on the Newswire section.

[truthaddict11]

despite some differences i have with the guy
thats so cool

[sc4r]

WOW !

Envy

etc.

errrrr

AS u can tell I am lost for words.

[the SovieT]

Okay, relative freedom of speech, happy now?

Its still more freedom than is awared to Cubans by your friend Castro. The former is a private website the latter is Nation, a society. You see whats wrong with this picture? Of course you don`t.

boy i wasnt expecting that critic coming
that unfactual expeculation of yours is the usual reactionary critic to everything....
try to prove what yo say or else i will have to presume your only flamming.. (wich you are)

but il shut up.. no one knows this days one can be banend for showing suport to comrade Fidel in his fight agains American paid terrorists...

[El Che]

Listen SovieT, I don`t know what your game is but its a matter of public record that there is no democracy and no political freedom (and for that matter no Socialism in any meaningful sense of the word) in Cuba under Castro. I`m not going to waste my time "proving" this to you.

You can support whatever you want, what you can`t do is misrepresent the reality of what you are supporting.

On what I sign I`ll say what I think. If you have any objections I suggest you articulate these in the form of a rational argument.

[Pete]

El Che, I want you to prove that to me. I have been shown proof by such people as Thursday Night to believe that what you are saying is bullshit. Cuba has a different form of democracy, a more socialist one. And there are massive 'freedoms' in Cuba, just not for those trying to subverse the revolution. My right-wing friend went there and talked to many many people and came back loving Castro for how he bettered and freed the Cubans. He is still right wing though.

And Lara, 2 years and maybe I will here him speak too :)

[sc4r]

To el Che :

What public record is this then ?

Do you mean it is accepted as factual by the mainstream media and the various Liberal democratic governments ?

very true, but I hardly would have thought that anybody presenting themselves as a bona-fide part of this forum would have thought that sufficient proof.

Guess what ? I, and probably most of these others, have seen all that. We are not dumbos, and yet we dont accept it. Why do you think that might be? blind faith ? or do you just possibly think that we might have delved a little deeper?

On other forums I'm used to presenting reams of evidence to show how dreadfully uninformed and twisted the mainstream view is, I hardly thought it would be neccessary here.

[YerbaMateJ]

YES! YES! YES! I am so excited to know that Fidel is healthy and vibrant!!! May he lead Cuba for decades to come!

Larissa, your experience excites me to no end!

YMj :biggrin:

[Urban Rubble]

"I am so excited to know that Fidel is healthy and vibrant!!! May he lead Cuba for decades to come!"

*surpresses laughter*

I wouldn't quite call him healthy, he looks like he's been dead for weeks. Also, rule for decades to come ? He'd be pretty damn old.

The facts are, Fidel has a few more years at the most then it's either on to Raul or U.S invasion.

Sorry to be mean but Castro is anything but healthy. Great leader, old leader.

[YerbaMateJ]

Go ahead and laugh. But if anyone that is in their 70's lives for decades to come, it will be Fidel.

YMj:biggrin:

[chamo]

70 is young in Cuba, considering it's great health system.:biggrin:

May he lead for decades more, I know someone who is 100, I don't know what your problem is.

Anything but healthy, pfft, take notice of how Lara described him. Anyone who can live fighting through a revolution, survive attempts on his life, make great speeches for hours on length, and continue through hassling from journalists, must have something going for them.

I dismiss your pessimism!


(Edited by happyguy at 7:58 pm on May 28, 2003)

[El Che]

I stand by what I said. I put it to you that if you say Cuban "democracy" is merely "different" you aren`t serious people. How can you talk about "mainstream media" when everybody knows that Fidel is in charge of Cuba and thats the end of the story? How can you talk about "mainstream media" when everybody knows, and not even Fidel will deny this, that there are political executions and prision sentences in Cuba?

Is that the Leftist inside you, is that the Socialist inside you that makes you overlook these things or worse yet support these things? I`m the fucking reactionary here?

Think about it.

[YerbaMateJ]

Quote: from happyguy on 10:44 am on May 28, 2003
70 is young in Cuba, considering it's great health system.:biggrin:

May he lead for decades more, I know someone who is 100, I don't know what your problem is.

Anything but healthy, pfft, take head of how Lara described him. Anyone who can live firghitng through a revolution, survive attempts on his life, make great speeches for hours on length, and continue through hassling from journalists, must have something going for them.

I dismiss your pessimism!


Well said! Thank you!!!

YMj:biggrin:

[Urban Rubble]

I didn't say Fidel had NOTHING going for him HappyGuy, I said he was unhealthy, which is true.

Calm down guys, I wan't trying to hurt your feelings, I was simply stating a fact. The guy is in his 70's, of course he's going to be unhealthy. I realize he has lived a rough life and that he has held up well especially when you consider what he has lived through.

Don't be so sensitive, he's old, he's unhealthy, but if Fidel lives to be 100 I'll be suprised.

[Felicia]

I hope to see him some day.... if I ever get the chance to poke him in the side, I'd probably faint ;)

excuse me, mr. fidel, sir..... *poke*......oh my *sigh*.....*passes out*... :biggrin:

I'd ask to rub his head too, and tell him that canada loves him and his country (and so do I!!) :cheesy: :)

[Sandanista]

tell him i said eat a dick

[Felicia]

Quote: from Sandanista on 9:51 pm on May 28, 2003
tell him i said eat a dick
hmmm.....*restrict access*....... bite on that apple :biggrin:.......too bad I don't have the power to do that ;)

[Sandanista]

eh????

[Felicia]

huh? haha.... I guess this is what that PM was about :biggrin:

[Comrade Daniel]

I saw a picture of Fidel Castro in the news paper this morning, it was a great picture! A cut it out and I'll stick it somewhere above my bed.

(Edited by Comrade Daniel at 10:32 pm on May 28, 2003)

[Sandanista]

Yup

[Felicia]

oh, ok, lol.... I meant to restrict you to opposing ideologies...... that could happen you know, but I was just teasing you :)

[chamo]

"I was simply stating a fact. The guy is in his 70's, of course he's going to be unhealthy."

You automatically assume that all people over 65 or so are going to be unhealthy and on their deathbeds? That may just well be an over-stated assumption and a gross generalisation. I know plently who are older than that and are not at all unhealthy.

Like Larissa said, Fidel Castro is looking healthy. Don't try and make him out as something he is not.

[Sandanista]

hehehehehehehe thats cool :D

although fidels a nobody, sell out arsehole!

[Urban Rubble]

People over 65 are generally not in the greatest shape. I never said they were all on their deathbed but a 70 year old man is going to be at least slightly unhealthy.

Have you seen a recent picture of Fidel ? Do you seriously think that is what a healthy person looks like ?

Also, have you not heard reports of Fidels health ? He isn't on his deathbed but he is sick. I can't remember the specifics but I remember hearing that he was not doing that great.

At any rate I take my comments back because some people are so sensitive.

[YerbaMateJ]

Okay guys, here is my deal with the whole ongoing FIDEL/HEALTHY OR NOT saga.

Urban Rubble, it is not that we (and I think I'm speaking maybe for happyguy as well...) are oversensitive. I think it is more like we are concerned about what will happen to Cuba should, God forbid, anything happen to Fidel. He is an unusually strong leader, who, like you said, has been through so much, and done the impossible. He acheived the impossible when he was released from prison. He achieved the impossible when he lead the rebels to victory. He achieved the impossible with the Playa Giron victory. He acheived the impossible when his country survived the embargo. He acheived the impossible when his country went on in spite of the Soviet decent to capitalism. And Cuba is still achieving the impossible by being one of the few socialist societies on earth---much less 90 miles from the United States.

The Cuban people are to be given credit as well---but their leader for the last four decades is an unusual man. I'll speak for myself in saying that I have concerns about what will happen if, God forbid, anything happen to Fidel Castro. I don't like the idea that the United States is waiting to pounce on Cuba at it's first opportunity. I for one want Fidel to live as long as humanly AND superhumanly possible to ensure that a leader just as effective as he is steps in when the time comes.

I don't know much about Raul, so I really can't comment on how much Cuba will be able to stand up to the United States if he were President. Perhaps someone else can shed more light on that.

This is why I say things like "May he lead Cuba for decades to come." I want to put that out into the "universe" so to speak---so the Revolution can have every chance it can possibly have.

YMj:biggrin:

[Sandanista]

Fidel isnt a strong leader, he had enclosed himself in that little island, and HE IS NOT A SOCIALIST!!!!!!!

CUBA ISNT SOCIALIST!!!

[chamo]

It would be worthwhile for yourself and everybody here to actually give information, evidence and theorys to back up your repetitive claims.

That's about the third time you have attacked Castro in this way.

[Felicia]

Quote: from Urban Rubble on 10:19 pm on May 29, 2003
People over 65 are generally not in the greatest shape. I never said they were all on their deathbed but a 70 year old man is going to be at least slightly unhealthy.

Have you seen a recent picture of Fidel ? Do you seriously think that is what a healthy person looks like ?

Also, have you not heard reports of Fidels health ? He isn't on his deathbed but he is sick. I can't remember the specifics but I remember hearing that he was not doing that great.

At any rate I take my comments back because some people are so sensitive.

My grandmother is Fidel's age and she's as healthy as a bull!!!!! So there's a more than good chance that fidel is doing super in the health department! :)

[Sandanista]

well maybe im doin it to spur u on into finding the info urselves?

I had to do it.

If there is such a thing as money, there is capital, capital = capitalism.

READ KARL MARX THEN READ TROTSKY!!!!

lazy bastards.

[chamo]

Well, maybe lots of people have different views, I just wanted to hear yours.

But then again, maybe you are too lazy to post them.

If you don't want to back up accusations with rational debate and theories, that's just fine, but that's the way it's usually done.

[Urban Rubble]

O.K, last comment on Fidel's health. I know there is a "good chance" he's healthy, but he isn't. He was not able to get out of bed for like a month last year. He's sick.

With that said, Fidel is a great guy and I would love if he ruled Cuba for centuries to come, but he won't. Next it will be Raul and frankly that scares me. I think he is alot more unstable than Fidel, actually I know this. He's more hardline communist but he is also a little crazy. has anyone heard the story of Raul lining up soldiers in front of graves after the revolution and shooting them where they stand, without trial ? Sure, they were Batista's soldiers but still, they should have at least gotten a trial. I don't know much about the guy but I definately would keep and eye on him.

And before someone tries to dispute this claim, I'm not making it up and I didn't hear it from biased media.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Sandanista, I don't think that the reason why we admire Castro lies in his abilities to conduct a socialist state, since most of us have ideas and aspirations for the future of communism much different from what Castro has been doing. I, for one, admire Catsro for leading such a succesful revolution for the working class of Cuba, toppling Batista's regime, and standing up to U$'s imperialism for so long, despite the numerous attempts to murder him and despite the fact that he's just 90 miles from the U$. So untill you can do that, don't insult Fidel, ass!

[Sandanista]

I very much agree Victor, maybe im bein a wee bit reactionary but i dont like the reverence given to fidel, he lead a great movement, but he is not a socialist, he never was and never will be.

Happy, i see ur point, i have posted on this somewhere, ill dig the link out 4 u.

[Sandanista]

http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/top...c=3714&start=20 (http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/topic.pl?forum=11&topic=3714&start=20)

Ok this explains the fidel isnt a commie thing, my posts on this page.

[sc4r]

Quote: from Sandanista on 7:26 pm on May 30, 2003
well maybe im doin it to spur u on into finding the info urselves?

I had to do it.

If there is such a thing as money, there is capital, capital = capitalism.

READ KARL MARX THEN READ TROTSKY!!!!

lazy bastards.


You have a strange view of what Socialism is for one professing to be so knowlegeable.

And a strange view of economics too. Capitalism is not about the existance of Capital but about how it can be owned and traded.

Money really has nothing at all to do with it. If you cant use money to purchase the means of production then it isnt capitalism.

I believe you have read Marx alright. But unfortunately socialism is only based on Marx's writings not defined by them , and especially not defined by your interpretation of them.

Cuba looks socialist to me. It's an application of socialism of course because in the real world theoretical ideologies always have to bend to the practicalities of life; but in Cuba it does not seem to have been bent very much.

[Sandanista]

No, socialism IS defined by marx's writings, if a small oligarichal clique rules cuba, then the workers have no say, thw workers dont own cuba, an elitist military group do.

Capitalism about the existence of capital as u need it to trade.

In the revolution you dont just buy the means of production, thats state-capitalism, in socialism, the workers SEIZE IT!!!

[Sandanista]

SC4R, what in your opinion IS socialism?

idiot

[Som]

No, socialism IS defined by marx's writings

So, theres no such thing as a socialist thats not a marxist?

So, Robert Owen was a mythical fairy tale? How about Mikhail Bakunin, Pierre Proudhoun? What the hell were they? They were socialists without any care of Marx, they were likely socialists before marx said a single godamn word about it. Did the labor movement spring up from a following of Marx?
The socialists carrying his holy word of workers across the land?

Socialism does NOT abolish money. Communism abolishes money. Communism is a sub-branch of socialism.
Cuba does have a certain level of local democratic descision making, with the grassroots organizations and the like, but im not really what to call Cuba.

It doesn't really matter, the line between the label of state-capitalism and socialism is sort of vague when it comes to it.



Castro sure is a uppity old man though.


(Edited by Som at 10:04 pm on May 31, 2003)

[YerbaMateJ]

"Look at those shock policies in Latin America and the world. Look at the millions of unemployed in the developed capitalist countries. The United States has about 9 million unemployed right now. France, Spain, Britain--each of them has 2,3,4 million unemployed. If a factory here is left without raw materials, we give the workers an income. We do not throw them out on the street. No one is abandoned. That is socialism. Capitalist society is the society of privilege. It is the society of vice. It is the society of alienation. It is the society of selfishness. It is the society of man exploiting man, man the enemy of man, man-- as Engels or Marx said---the wolf of man. Capitalism is a society of wolves..."

---FIDEL CASTRO, 1992

(Edited by YerbaMateJ at 2:15 am on June 1, 2003)


(Edited by YerbaMateJ at 2:16 am on June 1, 2003)

[Nick Yves]

Under communism, money wouldnt HAVE to be abolished. I mean, not if you arent talking about the utopian communism ideal.

[Urban Rubble]

Sandanista, watch who you call idiot. I wouldn't have said this before, but from your posts I would have to think you are the idiot.

Socialism is NOT defined by Marx's writings.

[redstar2000]

It's rather...awkward, isn't it, when two different threads get entangled in one topic, I mean.

First thread: Larissa gets to meet Fidel and this is exciting to some of us.

Second thread: is Cuba "really" socialist or not, and, if so, in what way...and if not, why not?

Since it is not technically possible for moderators on this board to directly untangle the threads (by moving all the posts on one topic to a seperate topic), I would suggest that a new topic should be created.

Sandanista, you could open a new topic "Cuba is not socialist" and develop your argument there (it's not enough, if I may suggest it, to simply assert that "Marx said it so it must be true" as an argument...you have to do better than that).

And, Larissa, where are those pictures?

:cool:

[Sandanista]

Good point redstar.

Bakunin and proudhon started the anarchist movement if my mind serves me.

hahahahahaha robert owen, he was a bloody chartist, bloody reformists.

Socialism is Communism, Communism is Socialism, its the same thing, just socialism is a nicer word.

No other writer in history laid down the theory of communism bettter than marx, that is why i adhere to his principles.

From what posts am i an idiot?

Listen there has NEVER been a socialist country, or a communist country if u like, go and study your theory, dont just read a biography of che guevara and because he said Cuba is on the road to socialism, isnt gospel.

Its becoming alarmingly apparent that many posters on this forum are middle class teenagers rebeling against the comfortable lives their parents wish for them.

Like the rules of this forum say, only real leftists can post on this, then y are there so many idiots here?

Fidel Castro can call himself a marxist leninist if he wants, put his country isnt run this way, if I called myself an MI5 agent, it doesnt mean i am one, does it?

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Sandanista, I can agree that Cuba is not Communist, but it is Socialist. There is a difference. Socialism is when all things are socilaized, for the people, if you will. Communism is Marxism, which is a form of Socialism. This is how I see it anyway.

[Urban Rubble]

"Socialism is Communism, Communism is Socialism, its the same thing, just socialism is a nicer word"

You just showed how little you know with that comment right there Sandinista.

[YerbaMateJ]

I'm really needing to see some PICTURES of FIDEL AND LARISSA right about now. Donde estan?

YMj:biggrin:

[革命者]

"Socialism is Communism, Communism is Socialism, its the same thing, just socialism is a nicer word"
i am glad after 6 years that is the conclusion of our debate-- are we numb??

[Sandanista]

Well it is the same thing, Socialism comes from the word society, workers societies, communism comes from commune, workers commune, a commune and a society are the same thing.

Socialism also means democracy, wheres the democracy in cuba?

If it was so good, then why do people go to great lenghts to leave the place?

[Camarade du Che]

Socialism: The State owns the means of production and the workers are paid for their work.

Communism: There is no state because there is no class anymore. The workers are paid for their needs and they work as their capacity.


Socialism doesn't mean democracy. Socialism needs to take the means of production from the capitalists and then defend the socialist revolution against the capitalists. To do that, there has to be a dictatorship controlled by the workers. We can't call that democracy but we also can't call the present system democracy because we only elect a representant of the capitalists each 4 years. A real democracy is when everybody takes part into the politics and that happens in communism.

Cuba is socialist. People leave because they "accept" the american propaganda.

[Larissa]

Fidel's pics...
http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/top...m=11&topic=3800 (http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/topic.pl?forum=11&topic=3800)

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

I agree with Comrade du Che, Socialism is just complete socialization. Communism is, according to some, includes both the dictatorship of the proletariat and the final stateless, classless phase of Marxism, to some it is strictly the final phase.

[Sandanista]

I dont even know why im arguing over what a word means, its my interpretation of it.

However dont hit me with the shite that "well thats my interpretation of socialism or communism, coz its usually a misinterpretation.

[Camarade du Che]

So, according to your "interpretation", Cuba is not socialist or communist. But don't try to convince us that Cuba isn't socialist with that because I'm sure that everybody agrees with me that your "interpretation" is completely wrong.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

what is your deffinition of socialism, sandanista?

[Sandanista]

Ive already explained

[rebelafrika]

I don't like it when people disrespect Fidel Castro and the Cuban Revolution and this is the reason why. I live in Compton, California which is a particularly crime infested city. I am an African (mistakenly refered to as "black" or African-amerikkkan) and the chances of me getting killed by another African is high. The chances of me getting killed by another African are fundamentaly higher than the chances of me getting killed by a non-African police "overseerer" for example...or higher than an African going out and killing someone who ISN'T African. Many people in my community look at these factors and say that our problem is "black on black" crime. Few people are able to see the social conditions that create "black on black" crime. This is what I refer to as being "politically nearsighted." Being politically nearsighted is when you see the drug dealers in "the hood" (who is the "little man" in the drug game) but you can't see the C.I.A./Crack connection putting the drugs in our community (cause Africans don't own the boats and planes!!!). It is when all you can see are the "petty criminals" like the ones they show on "kkkops," but you can't see the "corprate criminals" (who produce the T.V. show *smile*) committing the REAL crimes. YES...I have "every right" to be upset at the "brutha" that pulls a gun out on me for whatever reason it may be. I have the OPTION of being mad at him, OR I can be mad at the conditions which produced the situation. Or I can even be mad at BOTH. But I think that directing my energy at the brutha is the "boojee" thing to do. To me, the brutha who would kill me for looking at them wrong, or for stepping on their name brand shoes, or to get the 20 inch rims off my S.U.V. is actually the secondary problem. The conditions creating the situation (capitalist society) is the PRIMARY problem. The same goes if I was having a fist fight with my brother and the police come and try to break it up and they start getting too ruff with my brother...I'ma start fighting the police! In this case, my brother becomes the secondary problem, because the police became my PRIMARY problem, and with this perspective, I am going to direct my energy AGAINST THE POLICE! I think that the people who disrespect Castro and the Cuban Revolution either are people who ideologically support Imperialism, or they are people who are being politically nearsighted. Castro may do things that gives a person "every right" to be upset with him, but what about the conditions produced by Imperialism which influence the situation? To me, it's like blaming the effect and not the cause. I just don't understand how a person could direct their energy against Castro without recognizing the forces of Imperialism...which to me, are the cause of the situation and thus, the PRIMARY problem. Sandanista, I know you dissed Castro but this post was not being directed at you. It was about people in general who diss Castro. You just made me put some thought into it *smile.*

(Edited by rebelafrika at 4:24 am on June 5, 2003)

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Quote: from rebelafrika on 10:23 pm on June 4, 2003
I don't like it when people disrespect Fidel Castro and the Cuban Revolution and this is the reason why. I live in Compton, California which is a particularly crime infested city. I am an African (mistakenly refered to as "black" or African-amerikkkan) and the chances of me getting killed by another African is high. The chances of me getting killed by another African are fundamentaly higher than the chances of me getting killed by a non-African police "overseerer" for example...or higher than an African going out and killing someone who ISN'T African. Many people in my community look at these factors and say that our problem is "black on black" crime. Few people are able to see the social conditions that create "black on black" crime. This is what I refer to as being "politically nearsighted." Being politically nearsighted is when you see the drug dealers in "the hood" (who is the "little man" in the drug game) but you can't see the C.I.A./Crack connection putting the drugs in our community (cause Africans don't own the boats and planes!!!). It is when all you can see are the "petty criminals" like the ones they show on "kkkops," but you can't see the "corprate criminals" (who produce the T.V. show *smile*) committing the REAL crimes. YES...I have "every right" to be upset at the "brutha" that pulls a gun out on me for whatever reason it may be. I have the OPTION of being mad at him, OR I can be mad at the conditions which produced the situation. Or I can even be mad at BOTH. But I think that directing my energy at the brutha is the "boojee" thing to do. To me, the brutha who would kill me for looking at them wrong, or for stepping on their name brand shoes, or to get the 20 inch rims off my S.U.V. is actually the secondary problem. The conditions creating the situation (capitalist society) is the PRIMARY problem. The same goes if I was having a fist fight with my brother and the police come and try to break it up and they start getting too ruff with my brother...I'ma start fighting the police! In this case, my brother becomes the secondary problem, because the police became my PRIMARY problem, and with this perspective, I am going to direct my energy AGAINST THE POLICE! I think that the people who disrespect Castro and the Cuban Revolution either are people who ideologically support Imperialism, or they are people who are being politically nearsighted. Castro may do things that gives a person "every right" to be upset with him, but what about the conditions produced by Imperialism which influence the situation? To me, it's like blaming the effect and not the cause. I just don't understand how a person could direct their energy against Castro without recognizing the forces of Imperialism...which to me, are the cause of the situation and thus, the PRIMARY problem. Sandanista, I know you dissed Castro but this post was not being directed at you. It was about people in general who diss Castro. You just made me put some thought into it *smile.*

(Edited by rebelafrika at 4:24 am on June 5, 2003)


very insightful post indeed. I entirely see your point, comrade! Welcome to the boards.

[Sandanista]

At one point I did support Fidel, however i have only recently had my eyes opened, he is by no means an evil dictator, however much we argue about him being a socialist or not, eventually ur eyes will be opened.

However in response to rebelafrika's post, which was a superb point, i dont support imperialism and i am not politically nearsighted, remember socialism is the SELF EMANCIPATION of the working class, we dont need elections or a small armed band to decide our elections for us.

[YerbaMateJ]

Quote: from rebelafrika on 4:23 am on June 5, 2003
I don't like it when people disrespect Fidel Castro and the Cuban Revolution and this is the reason why. I live in Compton, California which is a particularly crime infested city. I am an African (mistakenly refered to as "black" or African-amerikkkan) and the chances of me getting killed by another African is high. The chances of me getting killed by another African are fundamentaly higher than the chances of me getting killed by a non-African police "overseerer" for example...or higher than an African going out and killing someone who ISN'T African. Many people in my community look at these factors and say that our problem is "black on black" crime. Few people are able to see the social conditions that create "black on black" crime. This is what I refer to as being "politically nearsighted." Being politically nearsighted is when you see the drug dealers in "the hood" (who is the "little man" in the drug game) but you can't see the C.I.A./Crack connection putting the drugs in our community (cause Africans don't own the boats and planes!!!). It is when all you can see are the "petty criminals" like the ones they show on "kkkops," but you can't see the "corprate criminals" (who produce the T.V. show *smile*) committing the REAL crimes. YES...I have "every right" to be upset at the "brutha" that pulls a gun out on me for whatever reason it may be. I have the OPTION of being mad at him, OR I can be mad at the conditions which produced the situation. Or I can even be mad at BOTH. But I think that directing my energy at the brutha is the "boojee" thing to do. To me, the brutha who would kill me for looking at them wrong, or for stepping on their name brand shoes, or to get the 20 inch rims off my S.U.V. is actually the secondary problem. The conditions creating the situation (capitalist society) is the PRIMARY problem. The same goes if I was having a fist fight with my brother and the police come and try to break it up and they start getting too ruff with my brother...I'ma start fighting the police! In this case, my brother becomes the secondary problem, because the police became my PRIMARY problem, and with this perspective, I am going to direct my energy AGAINST THE POLICE! I think that the people who disrespect Castro and the Cuban Revolution either are people who ideologically support Imperialism, or they are people who are being politically nearsighted. Castro may do things that gives a person "every right" to be upset with him, but what about the conditions produced by Imperialism which influence the situation? To me, it's like blaming the effect and not the cause. I just don't understand how a person could direct their energy against Castro without recognizing the forces of Imperialism...which to me, are the cause of the situation and thus, the PRIMARY problem. Sandanista, I know you dissed Castro but this post was not being directed at you. It was about people in general who diss Castro. You just made me put some thought into it *smile.*

(Edited by rebelafrika at 4:24 am on June 5, 2003)


Rebelafrika---BRAVO TO YOU!!!!! (*clap clap clap*)FANTASTIC insights you made there. Capitalist imperialism (and all the subtle, insidious agents you mentioned that go with it) WILL ALWAYS BE the #1 problem until our world (and especially the U$A) finds another more just, humane way to live. God bless Fidel Castro for denouncing imperialism and capitalism for over 40 years.

YMj:biggrin: