Hizbollah Kidnaps 2 Israeli Soldiers

[zomuseri]

yersterday morning hizbollah kidnapped 2 israeli soldiers from the israel lebanon border.

the hit that israel suffered is the second in 3 weeks. a reminder: palestinians kidnapped an israeli soldier in gaza strip and demanded pow swap. olmert declined and attacked power plants and hamas structures and civilians, killing about 60 palestinians in order to retain israels detering power.

now, after the gaza incidents, israel need to cope with 3 fronts: lebanon(hizbollah), gaza and yehuda and shomron.

olmert and his friends in the israeli cabinet think that if they attack lebanon and its foundations they will achieve a quite north border. but already today israel suffered katyusha missile, killing a women and injuring 20.

what israelis(not the government) fear the most, is reoccupation of southern lebanon, using the excuse od security for the people. what the government forgot is that when we ocuppied southern lebanon at least 2 soldiers died there every day, not mentioning the civilians that suffered.

if israel really, but truly want quiet(i think that olmert doesnt really want), they need to invest in rehabilitation of lebanon that we destroyed, and gaza that we bomb everyday and create everyday new resistance to us.

i live in jerusalem and i just cant see what our government is doing... :( :( :(

[Janus]

This definitely complicates the situation a lot more because the Israelis are potentially risking war with the Lebanese government itself.


and yehuda and shomron.
What's going on there?

[zomuseri]

yehuda and shomron(aka-west bank, because it is a west bank of jordan.)

currently the least fiery front that israel is dealing with.
200,000 settlers live there and the army needs to protect them. it is an occupied territory that creates resistance because of the low quality of life and yearning for a palestinian state . its caused by the government and the idf that treats the palestinians like we call: ezrahim suug zine, penis level civilians.

once in a while there is a palestinian attempt to kill israeli soldiers but mostly it doesnt succeed.

but it still means that israel has to protect the settlers that live there and thats why its another warlike front.

[Janus]

Oh, I see. I've just never heard the West Bank called that before.

[Janus]

OK, now this is totally unacceptable.

Israeli warplanes attack Beirut airport (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060713/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_lebanon;_ylt=AipM9yYLtQEKdCAKwc00aetvaA8F;_ ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ--)

It's one thing to hit military targets and quite another to bomb civilian areas. So far, dozens have been killed in this attack alone. :angry:

[CheRev]

I heard on the news this morning that they are threatening Syria as well. This could get really big if the US doesn't step in... Chances of that are slim although, and no other country has any influence on Isreal.

[Dreckt]

It is kinda funny when you think about it: the middle-eastern conflict has been waged for what, 50 years? Yet, the US doesn't "intervene" there but instead calls the Palestinians "terrorists" and says that Israel has to defend itself. Yet, they then fly all the way to Somalia, Korea, Vietnam and split those countries. They even go into Iraq and threaten Iran and North Korea.

Bet you haven't heard this in media :D ...

[ComradeE]

Heard it this morning when i woke up , this could lead to a full scale conflict between Lebanon and Israel which could bring more country's specifiably Syria due its connections with Lebanon from its occupation. This could get interesting. However a wider war wont be in the usa's interest has it could lead to Iraq exploding in chaos and could calm Israel down . i just fell sry for the poor coman Palestinian and isrealie being stuck in this madness

[Zapata]

the ineptitude of hardliners on both sides of this conflict never cease to amaze me. hamas continuing attacks, and most especially, refusing to recognize israel's right to exist is completely futile; a nation will not negotiate its right to exist away. and hamas will not defeat israel in military action. likewise, israeli strikes against "hamas meeting places" killing palestinian kids, and rocket attacks targeting militants that hit marketplaces just...dont work. they only send recruits to hamas, repeating the cycle.

i doubt a region-wide war will come of this. the other arab nations havent fared too well in those wars in the past, and even though this situation is a little different, i just dont really see a major war coming.

every time radical palestinian movements attack israelis, i think that they are the major road block to peace, but then every time, without fail, the israelis respond in a way that makes me think otherwise. hamas needs to knock it off, but israel is the "responsible" state in the picture here, and CAN stop it (not that i fault them for seeking to liberate shalit, they just shouldnt hit civilian targets, like beirut airport)

[Jamal]

Ok! Now this is what terrorism is all about!!! :angry:
The Israeli "defense" army's bombing has harvested up till now 47 Lebanese casualties including more than 10 children; all this, of course, is to retrieve the captured captives that Hezbollah captured in an attempt to release long imprisoned Lebanese captive Samir Al Kuntar(about 30 years in imprisonment) and his fellow Lebanese captives and many other Arab captives in Israeli prisons.

How does the cold blooded murder of 10 children or more bring back the two
Israeli captives from Hezbollah's hands I don't know!?

Here in Lebanon things are fanatic, I see at the TV people dying and fighting
between the two sides, I hear Israeli war planes roaming the sky, and there I add that I saw the bombing of the airport; it was horrific…

and now they're even shelling beirut from the sea, its gonna get out of control :(

[RebeldePorLaPAZ]

Scores killed as Israel strikes Lebanon (http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/4466E69B-1433-46A5-A837-39A1C22D8A9F.htm)

There is no need for all this. Isreali government is over reacting. I guess the word negotiation is not in there vocabulary.

It makes me sick to hear what is going on. The Isreali government will pay.

:angry:



--Paz

[Kid_A7]

Lebanon has allowed Nasralla do whatever the fuck he wants, arm his organization and party with his 'mates' from Iran. There's no central rule in Lbeanon but the one of Assad and Nasralla, and the shamless breaking of all international laws by kidnapping two soldires and continuously bombarding Israel's rear (Zfat, Haifa, Carmiel and more) is nothing worty of a moral reaction.

There is no reason to be more moral than the pope here, or to be more of a martyr than Jesus.. Israel has to strike Lebanon with all it's might and erase, completely, Huzballa. If this means kill hundreds or more - so be it.

Israel wasn't moral, or ethical, with the Palestinias - I give you that. I do believe the occupation must end and all territories returned. But when a fundemental organization kidnappes soldiers for poilitical orders - they must pay.

P.S. you konw what's the story behind Kuntar? He killed an entire Israeli family with out a cause. Think twicebefore you make a turtured prisoner out of him O.K?

[RebeldePorLaPAZ]

Israel has to strike Lebanon with all it's might and erase, completely, Huzballa. If this means kill hundreds or more - so be it.

I love your support for terrorism. <_<



--Paz

[Kid_A7]

I&#39;m just adding, to even up some stuff.
First off, the elected Israeli government is made out of a bunch of Reactionary Liberl fucks who think one-sided seperation from the Palestinians (hereby the "Convergence") accompanied by pig-like free market economy will lead Israel forward.
This is the Sharon way, and here are the results: 3 soldiers in captivity, dozens of Palestinians dying without cause, and now - missiles on Haifa.

The solution is two-way:
1. Stoping the operation in Gaza and compromising with Hamas in order to achieve a lonmg-term end to hostilities (step one in the long term plan for peace).
2.Bombarding the heck ou of Lebanon- to wipe out Nasralla. Only after that&#39;s done can Israel negotiate. This is not due to pride. It&#39;s due to the desire of the Israeli people to live peacfully. Israel has withdrawn from Lebanon and must never go back. But air and naval bombardment.. Well, ther&#39;s no other choice. You can&#39;t talk to Huzballa.

[Kia]

I really dont see how bombing the only international airport in Lebanon will make hezbollah give back the two isreali soldiers. Along with blocking all seaports too...that makes it nearly impossible for lebanon citizens to escape the current crisis. Isreal is out of its mind to claim that the whole lebanon gov and all its people are responsible and must pay for the the actions of one islamic political group. Shesh&#33; the lebanon ministers has asked for a ceasfire, but isreal wont even acknowledge it. Even the EU and multiple other countries are saying that isreals response is completely out of line. AND&#33; isreal is pointing fingers at both syria and Iran too, for supporting Hezbollah. It beginning to look like isreal is trying to start another 6 day war up again.

for anyone with no-knowledge of Hezbollah (like me :rolleyes: ):
Hezbollah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezbollah)

latest Mass Media news:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5178058.stm

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/13/mideast/index.html

[Janus]

I really dont see how bombing the only international airport in Lebanon will make hezbollah give back the two isreali soldiers.
I think there reasoning was that Hezbollah was getting supplies through the airport, etc.

[Mariam]

Lebanon has allowed Nasralla do whatever the fuck he wants, arm his organization and party with his &#39;mates&#39; from Iran.

What else they would do after what Hezbullah achieved in 2000..or do you want them to wait for Lahhuod to do something??


...that makes it nearly impossible for lebanon citizens to escape the current crisis.

From what i saw on Almanar TV today all Lebanese were calm and they didn&#39;t want to leave their places because they trust Hezbullah.


isreal is pointing fingers at both syria and Iran too, for supporting Hezbollah.

that&#39;s priori.

[Kid_A7]

Israel sees Lebanon as responsible. mainly because apart from being an organization it&#39;s also a political party in the Parliament. magine, say, the Democrats in the USA having both a civilian mechanizm and it&#39;s own army to boot...

So you see, the Lebanese government does have a large part in all of this, even if it does&#39;nt mean they actually did anything. Besides, what sort of government cannot even deploy it&#39;s own troops on the hostile border with Israel and chooses to allow terrorist radicals as Huzballa to do so instead? Surely they knew what was coming for quite a while now. Theyr&#39;e weak, not stupid.

[Janus]

mainly because apart from being an organization it&#39;s also a political party in the Parliament.
Yeah, there are two Hezbollah ministers.


So you see, the Lebanese government does have a large part in all of this, even if it does&#39;nt mean they actually did anything. Besides, what sort of government cannot even deploy it&#39;s own troops on the hostile border with Israel and chooses to allow terrorist radicals as Huzballa to do so instead?
They have been dominated by the Syrians for a while and their military doesn&#39;t really have that capability. Besides, the two countries aren&#39;t on the friendliest of terms.

[Andy Bowden]

Hezbollah seized two occupation soldiers. The Israelis have somewhere in the region of 900 Palestinian women and children in jail.

Approx 25% of the Palestinian population have been in jail at some time in there lives.

So for the "international community" to start kicking shit about this, while ignoring the civilians imprisoned indefinitely, is hypocrisy pure and simple.

[Janus]

This is totally unacceptable, the Lebanese government are caught in the middle as are the civilians who are the main victims of this violence.

The Israeli escalation was in response to a harmless Hezbollah rocket attack.

Of course, the US is always firmly supporting Israel&#39;s actions.

Israel intensifies attacks against Lebanon (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060713/ap_on_re_mi_ea/lebanon_israel;_ylt=AlO2XILMDglJeplkvnEPTewUvioA;_ ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl)

[RedSpartacus]

Well Israel being Israel, it knows that it can flaunt international laws with impunity, and if any brave soul dares to say anything within the UN corridors, then the US will stand there with that VETO of theirs to silence them.

I&#39;m sorry, but there&#39;s absolutely nothing wrong with kidnapping these soldiers, the majority of whom would stand war crime tribunals in an ideal world. I agree with everyone that killing civilians in suicide bombings is an inexcusable act, however, these soldiers knew for well that by wearing the uniform that they would become legitimate targets and thus I have no sympathy for them whatsoever&#33;

Another thing that they fail to mention in the news is that these soldiers were kidnapped within disputed territories between the two countries, so they had no business being there in the first place. But of course by Israeli terminology disputed means &#39;Israeli&#39;.

Finally, the fact that in order to rescue 3 soldiers Israel has killed many civilians and injured scores more; plus destroyed the civilian infrastructure (airports, roads, apartment blocks) in both Gaza and Beirut seems just a tad disproportionate to me. But hey, MIGHT IS RIGHT I SUPPOSE&#33;

[Jamal]

you know what&#39;s the story behind Kuntar? He killed an entire Israeli family with out a cause. Think twice before you make a tortured prisoner out of him O.K?
Ok first of all, Kuntar was going to capture a nuclear scientist from israel to put pressure on the israel forces to leave Beirut
his country and capital was conquered so don&#39;t say it was with no cause
and after the israeli forces surrounded the house of the scientist that he was in, he didn&#39;t surrender without a fight and the casualties where the scientist&#39;s family
and even if he was a serial killer, israel has no right to imprison a person with out a trial and he is not even an israeli for israel to have the right to put him in prison,
israel should have handed him over to his country.


Bombarding the heck out of Lebanon- to wipe out Nasralla
what do you think death is a joke? :angry:
people are dying here and only two of them are from hezbollah; I mean small children are dying here, what did they do to israel?
And if Nasralla died you dont imagine what coul happen; 13,000 missiles would be fired on israel right away, kiriatechmona, safad, haifa, and even tel aviv would be hit.


I think there reasoning was that Hezbollah was getting supplies through the airport, etc.
where do you live in a jungle?
who can get supplies and weapons through the airport ? This is ridiculous and stupid of anyone to think that.


Besides, what sort of government cannot even deploy it&#39;s own troops on the hostile border with Israel and chooses to allow terrorist radicals as Huzballa to do so instead?
Lebanon is forbidden to have a real army because it boarders israel, we don&#39;t have tanks or an airforce or a navy or heavy weaponry, how could such an army be placed in a such dangerous and delicate place as our south border?

[il Commie]

Originally posted by RedSpartacus+--> (RedSpartacus)I&#39;m sorry, but there&#39;s absolutely nothing wrong with kidnapping these soldiers[/b]

This action triggered a war between Israel and Hizbullah.
Hundreds of innocent israeli and lebanese civillians are going to die.
And you don&#39;t find anything wrong with that??


Originally posted by [email protected]
Another thing that they fail to mention in the news is that these soldiers were kidnapped within disputed territories between the two countries, so they had no business being there in the first place. But of course by Israeli terminology disputed means &#39;Israeli&#39;.

These are not disputed territories.
The only disputed territories between Lebanon and Israel are Havot Shab&#39;ah, where the previose kidnapping of Israeli soldiers occured. That is what mixed you up.
This act of kidnapping occured inside the borders of Israel.


RedSpartacus
Finally, the fact that in order to rescue 3 soldiers Israel has killed many civilians and injured scores more; plus destroyed the civilian infrastructure (airports, roads, apartment blocks) in both Gaza and Beirut seems just a tad disproportionate to me. But hey, MIGHT IS RIGHT I SUPPOSE&#33;

Both the IDF and Hizbullah kill innocent people.
No side is better from a humanitarian prespective.
Both side are criminals, and this war should be over, as soon as possible.

[dso79]

Originally posted by Kid_A7+--> (Kid_A7)Israel has to strike Lebanon with all it&#39;s might and erase, completely, Huzballa. If this means kill hundreds or more - so be it.[/b]

Why hasn’t this guy been banned/restricted? Using words like “fag” is a bannable offense here, but calling for the murder of hundreds of innocent people is OK, apparently.


continuously bombarding Israel&#39;s rear (Zfat, Haifa, Carmiel and more)

They didn’t attack those towns until after Israel slaughtered 50+ Lebanese civilians.


shamless breaking of all international laws by kidnapping two soldires

Israel has kidnapped thousands of Arabs and since Israel refuses to comply with international laws groups like Hizbullah and Hamas have no choice but to resort to capturing Israelis and trade them for their prisoners.


il Commie
This action triggered a war between Israel and Hizbullah.
Hundreds of innocent israeli and lebanese civillians are going to die.
And you don&#39;t find anything wrong with that??

There’s nothing wrong with capturing those soldiers, there’s something wrong with the Israeli response. Hizbullah launched a small-scale attack and doesn&#39;t want any escalation, they just want a prisoner swap; if Israel had agreed to that no civilians would have died. Instead, Israel decided to launch a large-scale assault against civilian targets in Lebanon.

[il Commie]

Originally posted by dso79
There’s nothing wrong with capturing those soldiers, there’s something wrong with the Israeli response. Hizbullah launched a small-scale attack and doesn&#39;t want any escalation, they just want a prisoner swap; if Israel had agreed to that no civilians would have died. Instead, Israel decided to launch a large-scale assault against civilian targets in Lebanon.

Hizbullah are not naive.
They knew exactly what would happen after this action: war.
They knew it would cost the life of many. And still, they did it.
Israel is not an occupier in Lebanon for years. This was an act of pure agression.

I don&#39;t justify Israel&#39;s response. It was a brutal slaughter.
Ulmert and Peretz were able to choose to save lives and exchange prisoners.

But in the middle east, leaders care about their macho more than they care about the lives of their citizens...

[il Commie]

At least there is a minority of reasonable people who demonstrated against the war infront of the "Security" Office...

http://gush-shalom.org/pics/kirya-13-7-06/IMG_0013.jpg
"We have no children for superfluous wars&#33;"
"There is no security without peace&#33;"

http://gush-shalom.org/pics/kirya-13-7-06/IMG_0029.jpg
"Summer Rain Operation Brings a Deluge of Blood&#33;"

http://gush-shalom.org/pics/kirya-13-7-06/IMG_0030.jpg

http://gush-shalom.org/pics/kirya-13-7-06/IMG_0010.jpg

http://gush-shalom.org/pics/kirya-13-7-06/IMG_0034.jpg

[Janus]

Hezbollah leader vows &#39;open war&#39; (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5182048.stm)

Hmm..looks like something similar to the 1982 Israeli incursion might occur.

What do you guys think that Lebanese government should do?

[Emperor Ronald Reagan]

Israel is not an occupier in Lebanon for years. This was an act of pure agression.

You&#39;re an idiot. Israel still occupies parts of South Lebanon, the Shebaa Farms region. Israel still holds Lebanese in Israeli jails. Israel still has refused to submit a map of the 400,000 land mines that it deliberately left in South Lebanon, which regularly kill Lebanese children.

So you fault Hizbullah for taking the fight outside the Shebaa farms but you would not dare fault Israel for taking its fight against Lebanon well outside the Shebaa Farms.

[Mariam]

Yes it is going to be an open war if the situation doesn&#39;t reach an end in the coming hours.
A satttleship is blow just as Nasrallah said, 4 israeli soldiers are missing and i don&#39;t know what else is going on the lebanese cost side and above that Iran is ready to take action against Israel if they attacked Syria.
But sure Nasrallah has apoint about the (fucking) arab leaders.

[Janus]

You&#39;re an idiot. Israel still occupies parts of South Lebanon, the Shebaa Farms region.
Stop flaming. Israel withdrew out of Lebanese territory in 2000. That area is now argued over by Lebanon and Syria.

[Jamal]

yeh the second nasrallah finished his speech, two anti-vessel rockets where launched on the worship that was terrorising beirut and bombarding it and its airport...
it was a heck of a daring move and some even say that the lebanese army stoped an israeli beach landing in the shores of the city of sidon.
the arab leaders, on the other hand, are without a dignity and honor and integrity and all the other stuff that make a human being human, especially that sauudi dectator king

israel by the way is most probably planning for a full scale assault; tanks, infantry and all.
it would be a desaster for both sides at the begining and afterward the opressing army would suffer great casualties and retreat leaving us out with a scorched earth plan.

i just hope these negotiations would come fast

[Jamal]

Stop flaming. Israel withdrew out of Lebanese territory in 2000. That area is now argued over by Lebanon and Syria.
if it is argued about by lebanon and syria, how then are israeli forces still deployed in it?
syria said its lebanese, lebanon said its lebanese and the israeli forces still haven&#39;t withdrawn from it
don&#39;t believe every thing you hear buddy&#33;

[il Commie]

Originally posted by Emperor Ronald Reagan+--> (Emperor Ronald Reagan)You&#39;re an idiot.[/b]

Aren&#39;t there people in this forum which their job is to erase uncivil language?


Originally posted by Emperor Ronald Reagan+--> (Emperor Ronald Reagan)Israel still occupies parts of South Lebanon, the Shebaa Farms region[/b]

It&#39;s not a "region", it&#39;s a small moutain (which my party supports giving back to Lebanon).


Originally posted by Emperor Ronald Reagan
Israel still holds Lebanese in Israeli jails.

And I support their release.
But there many other ways to release them, instead of openin a bloody war.


Emperor Ronald [email protected]
Israel still has refused to submit a map of the 400,000 land mines that it deliberately left in South Lebanon, which regularly kill Lebanese children.

I never heard of that.
Do you have information about that?


Emperor Ronald Reagan
So you fault Hizbullah for taking the fight outside the Shebaa farms but you would not dare fault Israel for taking its fight against Lebanon well outside the Shebaa Farms.

This is not a war between an occupied nation and an oppressive nation like the war between Israel and Palestine. This is a war between two bourgeois reactionary sides. Ulmert and Nassrallah are both evil war mongering criminals.

The job of the left is not to support either one of the sides, but to support a blood truce and the liberation of all prisoners from both sides, in order to stop the blodshed.

[Janus]

if it is argued about by lebanon and syria, how then are israeli forces still deployed in it?
syria said its lebanese, lebanon said its lebanese and the israeli forces still haven&#39;t withdrawn from it
don&#39;t believe every thing you hear buddy&#33;
All I know is that Israel was supposed to have pulled out of Lebanese territory back in 2000.

[Emperor Ronald Reagan]

What the bloody hell are you talking about? Both Lebanon and Syria say the Shebaa Farms land is Lebanese, and therefore the Israeli "withdrawal" from Lebanon is incomplete. Contrary to your idiotic claim, there is still Israeli presence in the Shebaa Farms. Israel also occupies part of the Wazzani river, a small river that runs along the border, from which the Zionists are openly pumping the water toward their colonies south of the border. Please, do some research before you make such stupid posts.

[Jamal]

It&#39;s not a "region", it&#39;s a small moutain
this "small mountain" as you say holds the biggest quantity of underground water reserves in the middle east

I never heard of that.
Do you have information about that?
when israel withdrew from southern lebanon, they left behind them an uncountable number of land mines that are killing children and sheperds and many other civilians that are passing by or at least horribly injuring them(cutting off there legs...) and israel is refusing to give the lebanese army the map to these fatal mines that are killing these innocent people

All I know is that Israel was supposed to have pulled out of Lebanese territory back in 2000.
well they didn&#39;t
no body knows everything, now do they?

[Janus]

well they didn&#39;t
no body knows everything, now do they?
I see. Not very surprising but do you have sources?

[Mariam]

it was a heck of a daring move and some even say that the lebanese army stoped an israeli beach landing in the shores of the city of sidon.

Yes, i have just seen the news on Aljazeera and the situation is going crazy.


the arab leaders, on the other hand, are without a dignity and honor and integrity and all the other stuff that make a human being human, especially that sauudi dectator king

That&#39;s one..don&#39;t want to list the other hypocrites.

[Jamal]

I see. Not very surprising but do you have sources?
yes I do, my friend&#39;s father even has a land there and he has the documents

That&#39;s one..don&#39;t want to list the other hypocrites
yeh, hehe :)
I don&#39;t have the time or space :D

[Mariam]

It seems now that the Palestinians has taken advantage of the situation in Lebanon and blown a hole in the wall sapareting Gaza from Egypt&#33;

[il Commie]

Originally posted by Emperor Ronald [email protected] 14 2006, 09:53 PM
What the bloody hell are you talking about? Both Lebanon and Syria say the Shebaa Farms land is Lebanese, and therefore the Israeli "withdrawal" from Lebanon is incomplete. Contrary to your idiotic claim, there is still Israeli presence in the Shebaa Farms. Israel also occupies part of the Wazzani river, a small river that runs along the border, from which the Zionists are openly pumping the water toward their colonies south of the border. Please, do some research before you make such stupid posts.
If you suggest that this stupid moutain is a good enough reason for this war, in which hundreds of innocent lebanese and israelis are about to die, than you are the [...] here.

[Janus]

yes I do, my friend&#39;s father even has a land there and he has the documents
Cool. Could you post them?

[Jamal]

If you suggest that this stupid moutain is a good enough reason for this war, in which hundreds of innocent lebanese and israelis are about to die, than you are the [...] here.
first of all, this "stupid" mountain contains 14 farms that are above the biggest reserve of groundwaters in the area and after all, if a groop captures 2 of a countries soldiers, is this reson enough to launch a war on the country that this party belongs to killing hundreds of people on both sides?


Cool. Could you post them?
offcourse I cannot post them because they are not with me&#33;
but here is a site that will help you http://www.shebaafarms.org/briefhistory.html

[Jamal]

All major bridges have been destroyed and most of the secondary ones.
Beirut&#39;s international airport is witnessing air strikes and naval bombardment for about the 100th&#39;s time now. It is probably already as damaged as it could ever be. What are they still trying to do? Are they sketching a map?&#33;
From the south, to the north, to Beirut, to the bikaa, coming to mount-Lebanon and in every location. No place is safe now.
The Hezbollah are well fortified at their locations and no missile can reach there, the people that are paying the price are only us civilians.
On the other hand, I don&#39;t think that Hezbollah is a terrorist organization. The people are fighting for a cause and they were hitting military locations before Israel started launching there attacks&#33;&#33;&#33;
yesterday, I saw the bombing of the Dahr Al Baydar bridge, its near the place I live
I is scary in lebanon these days

[il Commie]

Originally posted by Jamal+--> (Jamal)first of all, this "stupid" mountain contains 14 farms that are above the biggest reserve of groundwaters in the area [/b]

I understand that, and I support giving it back to Lebanon.
But the fact that Israel holds this moutain does not make Lebanon an occupied nation. Israel withdrew from the entire South Lebanon in 2000, except for this moutain, ending by that the occupation.

This war is a war between two evil sides, this not a war of national liberation.
Socialists should oppose both sides and support the immediate end of the war.


Originally posted by [email protected]
and after all, if a groop captures 2 of a countries soldiers, is this reson enough to launch a war on the country that this party belongs to killing hundreds of people on both sides?

Absolutely not&#33;
That is why I am going to participate tomorow in a demonstration against the israeli goverment.

But what I&#39;m saying is that Nassrallah knew that by committing this act he is risking war, and still he decided to do it. He gambled the life of innocent people on both sides, and that&#39;s simply evil.


Jamal
On the other hand, I don&#39;t think that Hezbollah is a terrorist organization

Shooting missles at civil population is TERROR.
The only reason Hizbullah killed less innocent people than the IDF is that the IDF has a bigger weaponary.

[zomuseri]

hello again to everyone.

i didnt read all of the posts i just got the mood of the conversation by reading 4-5 posts.

im not close to any missile attacks that hit civilians, but i do have friends there.
the situation is more complicated than you think. its not like gaza strip. lebanon and hizbolla are not fighting for freedom and they have a country. hizbollas goal is to erase israel off the map. they will never recognize in our right for a country.

whats going on in lebanon is crazy. i think that the idf and the government are not taking right actions. they need to start negotiations immidietley for cease fire.

but with who?

lebanon government didnt take responsibility for the hizbollah action that started from there land. so they shake off blame even that its not reasonable because it was from their land, and also hizbollah sit in their government.
so its a bit akward.

hitting civilans is never acceptable. imnot going to react to the fact the hizbollah bomb haifa, naharyia, tveria, kiryat shmona and more cities killing 4 and injuring hundreds. not to mention again that the whole north of israel is evacuated.
the idf needs to crush hizbollah period. only hizbollah and not anyone else. taking civilains on the way is unaaceptable and a red line. unfortunateley our government is eager to prove its strength to lebanon and other arab nations...
the government wont get in to any talks because of that, and wont exchange pow because of that.

so the situation is not so simple like people think...
and again is say:

hizbollah is not gaza and not palestine.
they are fighting because they hate jews.
thats it.

[dso79]

Originally posted by zomuseri+--> (zomuseri)hizbollah is not gaza and not palestine.
they are fighting because they hate jews.
thats it.[/b]

I’m getting kinda tired of people portraying Hizbullah as some evil organisation intent on killing innocent Jews, while at the same time completely ignoring Israel’s role in this conflict. Hizbullah is a legitimate resistance organisation that was founded in response to the Israeli invasion of Lebanon. Though it’s true that they sometimes attack civilians most of their attacks focus on the IDF. Since the Israeli withdrawal they only launch attacks in retaliation for Israeli aggression.

Trying to “crush” Hizbullah will only lead to more violence. Instead, Israel needs to stop its aggression, withdraw from occupied territories and release the prisoners. Then Hizbullah (and Hamas etc) won’t have a reason to attack.


i think that the idf and the government are not taking right actions. they need to start negotiations immidietley for cease fire.

but with who?

With Hizbullah, obviously, since that’s the group they’re at war with and that has captured those soldiers.


il Commie
But what I&#39;m saying is that Nassrallah knew that by committing this act he is risking war, and still he decided to do it. He gambled the life of innocent people on both sides, and that&#39;s simply evil.

Obviously, they didn’t launch this attack in order to start a war. Like I said, they want Israel to release their prisoners, and capturing soldiers is one of the few effective ways to force them to do that. It’s worked in the past.

When the oppressed rise up against their oppressors there’s always a violent response. Whether it’s the working class rising up against the ruling class or an occupied nation rising up against its occupiers, the oppressors will almost always react with disproportionate force. Does that mean we should remain passive in the face of oppression and injustice?

[zomuseri]

you can get very tired of hearing that hizbollah is evil, because it true.
what do they have to fight for??? depression? no way&#33;
what are they resisting???
they met their goal in 2000 when idf retreated from south lebanon.
if they want to get the pow, why dont they get in talks ? not all the balme for not talking is falling on israel. thay just dont beleive that israel can exist. thats it.

didnt you read the news???
lebanon government didnt take responsibility for the action from their land.
lebanon government didnt know that hizbollah launched an attack. is that reasonable? saudi minister critisiced the action.
then, its like a country within a country, hizbollah in lebanon, if you need ot get into negotiations with hizbollah. its quite unreasonable for israel government to get in to talks with them.

and again, whoever understand a bit in this area, the occupioed territories and lebanon dont get the same judgement. lebanon and israel share an international border.

[Severian]

Originally posted by il [email protected] 15 2006, 06:11 AM
I understand that, and I support giving it back to Lebanon.
But the fact that Israel holds this moutain does not make Lebanon an occupied nation. Israel withdrew from the entire South Lebanon in 2000, except for this moutain, ending by that the occupation.

This war is a war between two evil sides, this not a war of national liberation.
Socialists should oppose both sides and support the immediate end of the war.
I&#39;m sorry, but your second paragraph doesn&#39;t follow from your first. Regardless of how much territory the Israeli regime is occupying at the moment, it is an imperialist apartheid regime. It is an instrument of the other imperialist countries against the oppressed peoples of the region.

You may be right that this is not a war of national liberation - are Lebanese working people generally mobilizing to resist, for example? But it is always wrong to draw a simplistic equals sign between an imperialist country and the "Third World" country it is attacking.

Rather than focusing on why Hezbollah chose to conduct a minor cross-border attack at this time, let&#39;s ask why the Israeli regime chose to escalate it into a war, at this moment particularly?

They&#39;ve conducted prisoner exchanges with Hizbollah before. They coulda simply conducted one again. Or heck, what motive could they have for insisting on holding onto this Shebaa Farms area, which you&#39;ve described as insignificant?

I&#39;d guess that the Israeli attack&#39;s driven in part by domestic politics. Even more, to cover the attacks on Palestinians: anytime Israel is at war with an Arab state, it becomes easier to thrash the Palestinians even harder. The greatest blows against the Palestinians have always been covered by war with an Arab state or states.

Israel made the decision for war, and that&#39;s where our fire should be focused, not on Hezbollah.

One other observation: we&#39;re seeing right now why there&#39;s such a focus on missiles and preventing the spread of missile tech in the 3rd world, from Iraq to north Korea. The bombing of Lebanon can no longer be a completely one-way street;

Zomuseri wrote:

they are fighting because they hate jews. thats it.

And similarly, apartheid South Africa was hated in neighboring countries because they hated Dutch people. That&#39;s it. Right? The only reason they served as a base for ANC guerillas, even after South Africa got out of Namibia.

No. The leaders of Hezbollah may well be anti-Semites, I&#39;m not denying that.

But the Israeli state is hated throughout the Arab world primarily because it is an apartheid state founded on the oppression of Arabs. That was true since &#39;48, and will remain true even if Israel withdraws from the occupied territories (which is looking more and more impossible anyway, with every mile of wall and fence that is built, and every settlement that was built during the so-called peace process.) Just as South Africa remained an apartheid state after withdrawing from Namibia.

Deal with that reality. As long as Israel remains a colonial-settler state based on the dispossession of the natives and a privileged status for the colonist - in other words, as long as it remains a Zionist state - there will be no lasting peace. Any more than there could be lasting peace in southern Africa while apartheid remained.

[Jamal]

you can get very tired of hearing that hizbollah is evil, because it true.
what do they have to fight for??? depression? no way&#33;

If you didn&#39;t realize what they are fighting for by now, something serious is going wrong. It is an Islamic resistance, not a national one ok, fundimentalist ok, but sure as hell a good resistance. If it wasn&#39;t for Hezbollah, israel would still be in Lebanon so don&#39;t go telling me what do they have to fight for.

they met their goal in 2000 when idf retreated from south lebanon.
if they want to get the pow, why dont they get in talks ? not all the balme for not talking is falling on israel.
I am so tierd of repeating the same thing over and over again,you didn&#39;t read all the posts don&#39;t just barge in and start saying stuff like that, the shibaa farms are still occupied and yes they are important, if not then why is it still occupied?

After demonstrations and last talks(when the last group of prisioners where released) where israel refused to release the rest of all of the lebanese prisoners and after all the plea for the release of the rest of the prisoners to the UN and to the International society didn&#39;t work, obviously there is no other way into releasing these captives then the capture of israeli soldiers.


thay just dont beleive that israel can exist. thats it.

I don&#39;t believe that israel has the right to exist because it is existing on the back of 2 million palestinian refugee and on hundreds of dead palestinans comming to 10 well known massacers (Deir Yasin, Kafar Kasim,Jenin...) wich led to the death of thousands. The Palestinians were living peacefully in their native land until the Zionists came and did what they do best: killing death and more killing...

[zomuseri]

to jamal&#33;

i would like to give you a lesson in history.

I don&#39;t believe that israel has the right to exist because it is existing on the back of 2 million palestinian refugee and on hundreds of dead palestinans comming to 10 well known massacers (Deir Yasin, Kafar Kasim,Jenin...) wich led to the death of thousands. The Palestinians were living peacefully in their native land until the Zionists came and did what they do best: killing death and more killing...

if you think that israel doenst have a right to exist you are faschist.
always when im talking about the situation, with israelis or non israelis, i see both sides. i see that we are occupiers and that the idf is not humane as we think it is. that arabs in gaza and all the occupied territories live very bad. i see it and never deny it and supportive of a retreatment.
but, you cant deny that we have a right to exist, there are a lot of left wing supporters here that want out of those places and we fight for it everyday.
let me remind you that our arab neighbours started two wars to try and demolish us.

so saying that what we know best is killing is being ignorant and deaf.
maybe youre antisemitic yourself, and then your place is not here.


If you didn&#39;t realize what they are fighting for by now, something serious is going wrong. It is an Islamic resistance, not a national one ok, fundimentalist ok, but sure as hell a good resistance. If it wasn&#39;t for Hezbollah, israel would still be in Lebanon so don&#39;t go telling me what do they have to fight for.


isalmic resistance...?
are we back to fundementalism? isalmic nations are not even united as people think. saudi goverment critiziced hizbollah. not talking of lebanese goverment.

so ,

be more tolerant of the people and not there government.

[Jamal]

to zomuseri and all the others it may concern,

please read the following and don&#39;t miss a word saying its too long, that&#39;s just what illitirate people say

First of all I would like to differentiate between the Israeli people and the Israeli state. Of course the people have a right to exist, that&#39;s a given. Everybody has a right to exist. The Israeli state, however, is basically a dominant entity that gives some people the right to exist on the expense of others.

The state of Israel has no right to exist. It should never have been founded.
If the Jewish people who had suffered Nazi oppression during WWII had come to the land as refugees, they most probably would have been welcomed and integrated into the Palestinian society as part of the already existing Palestinian state.

How can I be so sure of that? Because the Armenian people suffered Turkish oppression during WWI and they fled to nearby nations (Lebanon, Syria, Palestine, Jordan, etc…) where they were taken care of, given food, shelter, medical assistance, and finally integrated into the existing society.

The state of Israel, however, was created to give the Jewish refugees dominance and sovereignty over the natives. Ariel Sharon is in no way different than General Cortez. Cortez butchered the Aztecs and other native Latin American civilizations, stole their gold and land and established Spanish settlements there. Ariel Sharon was one of the founders of the state of Israel. One of his famous endeavors is burying the people of the village of Khodeira alive in 1948, like he did to the Egyptian soldiers in Siena in 1967. There are many other people like him among the founders and maybe some who are even worse.

You want to give me a lesson in history? Let me give you a small refresher course. Imagine this: 1948, a Palestinian family sitting peacefully in their house one afternoon. They are startled by loud repeated knocks on the door. They open to find a soldier pointing a machine gun at them ordering them to leave their house and follow him. They try to resist, and one of them probably gets shot. The rest go with the soldier thinking that this way they may spare their own lives. They are led to the town square where they find that the rest of the village has also been taken. They sit and wait. When the entire village is finally present within this place, surrounded on all sides by Zionist forces, one military man, who appears to have control over the rest of the soldiers, approaches. The people hold their breaths as he looks them over. He then looks at the soldiers and gives them a signal. They raise their guns. He gives them the go sign. They start shooting. The sound of machine guns roars, almost covering the cries and wails of the men, women, children, and elderly who are being slaughtered. When the last of the townspeople has been killed, the leader gives the sign to cease fire. The soldiers stop and start clearing the bodies from the town square. There is now a vacant village for the new immigrants to occupy… That is exactly what happened in the massacres that I stated on my earlier post.

Now, as for calling me anti-Semitic, do you even know what the word means? It is based on the biblical story of Noah. He was said to have 2 son: Sam, who was said to be white, and I&#39;m not sure what the other was called in English but his name in Arabic is Ham, and he was said to be black. Ham is supposed to have fathered the African race, while Sam fathered the white people on the east of the Mediterranean, such as the Jews, Arabs, Mesopotamians, Persians, Ottomans, Armenians, Kurds, etc… The Semites are supposed to be the descendants of Sam, i.e. white people who are not Europeans. Racism towards Semites is called anti-Semitism.

I&#39;m sick of everyone using the word anti-Semitism as if it means anti-Jewish. How can Arabs be anti-Semitic if they are Semites themselves? You might want to review your terms before using them next time.

Lastly I never said that fundementalism is good, what I said was that Hezbollah&#39;s resistance is very good despite being fundementalist. I would also like to point out that Lebanon is not and never was an islamic nation and only about 50% of its people are muslims, but you like many others stariotype arabs as being all muslims.
I recomend you read "Orientalism" by Edward Said. I think you would really benifit from it.

[Mariam]

I&#39;m sick of everyone using the word anti-Semitism as if it means anti-Jewish. How can Arabs be anti-Semitic if they are Semites themselves? You might want to review your terms before using them next time.

The term has been manipulated to mean that the only Semites are Jews in order to support the idea of their superiority and to justify their occupation.



saudi goverment critiziced hizbollah. not talking of lebanese goverment.

so ,

be more tolerant of the people and not there government.

Fuck the Saudi government&#33;
Do you think all arabs shuold do the same Saudi&#39;s trash??..ya sure there are bunch of those fuckers in charge..
so...you must not go around making those generalizations.

[zomuseri]

as i said,
i know a bit more than you think. i know that not all arab are muslims, buti know that hizbollah is fundementalist. i know whre the antisemite came from but tady the conotation is jews.

maybe youre trying to hard to hate us, but its exactly what right wing people over the world say. as i said, we have a left wing here that wants two states for israe and palestine, as we deserve one also, and i dont want to get in the history of the two races, as its not important antmore. if you say we have no right to exist, as there are also people like me that fight for humane causes and participate in demonstrations against the occupation and the war, then your place is not here with left wingers. you cant bear a grudge forever. as probably you have friends that were killed by idf, i have also, and i dont think there death is justified.

as we have in our country a movement thats trying to let the israeli jews know what really happened in 1948, but the truth like you were saying, you cant say that people dont know. we know and we are repellent of it.

before 1948, when jews came to palestine they were massacered by arabs, so if you look 70 years ago youll see that the victim is also us.

so maybe instead of bearing a grudge against us try to understan that there a re people that want real peace here, and deserve a country too.

[Kamraten]

aw comon, there is no justification for what israel is doing lebanon. They are murdering civilians as well as they are doing in palestine right now. It is not the hisbolla who are getting targeted, hisbollah isnt anything better.. And where are those kidnapped soldiers, they dont care about them its not about the soldiers, its about the global agenda.
And iam more then sure that somehow this blame is going to be swifted to Iran couse that is by means what this about, first lebanon probably syria and then Iran(as admitted by US official they had plans to attack iran before they went into iraq).
wake up the middle east is going to flames and this will esculate til people forget what started it all.

[Janus]

Both Lebanon and Syria say the Shebaa Farms land is Lebanese, and therefore the Israeli "withdrawal" from Lebanon is incomplete.
I heard that the Syrians were also claiming it.

Contrary to your idiotic claim, there is still Israeli presence in the Shebaa Farms. Israel also occupies part of the Wazzani river, a small river that runs along the border, from which the Zionists are openly pumping the water toward their colonies south of the border. Please, do some research before you make such stupid posts.
Ok, calm down. I did do my research and it stated that Israel pulled out of South Lebanon. What I did not know was that they still occupied small portions of South Lebanon.

Jamal, thanks for the link.

[TupacAndChe4Eva]

This is a sad situation.

Sadly, it was always going to take things like this to wake the World up to the atrocities committed by Israel.

Sabra and Shatila were brushed under the carpet, but this appears to have a lot of staying power, perhaps due to the effect of the media, and also withit coinciding with the meeting of G8.

As many have said, the Israeli response was far in excess of what Hizbollah actually committed. The Israeli soldier is, surely, a justified military target for the Guerrillas?

Civilians, children, seen bombed on the news this morning, are not.

The Israeli response was not in proportion to the actions of Hizbollah, and the civilian populace of Lebanon are suffering. Israel is in the wrong.

Actions like this create many "terrorists" that will harm Israel in the future, and it isnt surprising, after what I seen on the TV this morning.

[вор в законе]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2006, 07:11 PM
Israel has to strike Lebanon with all it&#39;s might and erase, completely, Huzballa. If this means kill hundreds or more - so be it.

Nonsense. All this &#39;&#39;return the soldiers&#39;&#39; nonsense was just a pretext for an invasion. Israel is killing civilians and condemning Lebanon to poverty by bombarding their airports and factories and nobody has the balls to do anything. I feel disgusted.

[Jamal]

Today from 8 am till 9 pm, I(and a group of leftists ) was helping refugees who are comming from the south of lebanon and provide them with food and shelter and providing them with medical attention. I could see in their eyes the surrow and sadness they are feeling.One of them, a man of about 50, told me that he left his two sons behind because he thought they rode the bus with him(he didn&#39;t see them because of the crowd) and they didn&#39;t. I sat there listening to his story and telling him that everything is gonna be ok while I knew that nothing is going to be alright. He was crying, I couldn&#39;t blame him :( .

[Jamal]

To zomuseri...

First you accused me of being an anti-Semite, then of being a fascist and now, I am a right winger. You know people who throw out accusations to others like that often do so because they are insecure about what to say.

You don&#39;t want to get into the history of the two races? I thought you wanted to give me a lesson in history. You say
before 1948, when jews came to palestine they were massacered by arabs but you forget that before 1948 Palestine was not an independent state. It had been ruled by Turks until 1918 and then by the British. The Turks were known to hate Jews and Christians, as well as all non-Sunni Muslims. Before the British rule some Jews tried to buy Palestine from the Turks but their request was rejected, and all Jewish people who tried to go to Palestine were killed by the Ottoman army. The British then, who were short of funds for their fight in WWI, promised the Palestinian land to the Jewish businessmen in exchange for their money (the Belfore promise). And so during the era of the British rule of Palestine (1918-1948) many Jewish families migrated to the land and settled there safely, until the mass migrations and fights that took place in 1948, in which the Palestinians were victimized, not the Jews.

And again, if you carefully read my previous entry, you will find that I did say that you have a right to exist. That is the fundamental right of every human being, no, every living creature. I said that the state of Israel has no right to exist, simply because it is like a parasite that can only live by killing, or at least seriously hurting, other organisms. Such a parasite has no place in the circle of life and thus should not exist.

And again you remind me that Hezbollah is a fundamentalist party. I already know that. I am not defending fundamentalism. I am totally against Hezbollah in the internal politics of Lebanon. I, however, support them in the aspect of resistance.

Another lesson in history: the Lebanese resistance did not start out as Islamic. The first resistance (1982) was called the patriotic resistance and it was composed mainly of left-wingers, the most prominent of which are the Lebanese communist party and the Syrian nationalist party. The Islamic resistance did not become prominent until the 1985, and only became the major part of the resistance in the 1990s.

Since you were talking about some Lebanese being against Hezbollah, you should know that currently the Christian and Druze right-wingers are opposing Hezbollah, while the leftist parties are supporting them.

[zomuseri]

im not going to say nothing more to yo jamal:

there are two sides to the conflict, both killing people each day. if you want to see only israel in charge of the conflict, so be it.

[Zapata]

ya there are two sides. on the one hand, youve got hamas and other radical palestinian groups antagonizing israel with attacks that disrupt the fragile peace process, and then youve got israel behaving like a little child, with no restraint and taking an eye for an eye, despite the fact that they are dealing with terrorists. hezbollah launching rockets into israel at civilian targets does not justify israel destroying highways airports and assorted other civilian targets in lebanon, as well as blockading the entire country. today israel asserted that it was doing these things because it refuses to return to the "status quo" of hezbollah attacking with rockets. israeli official also said that it was not really attempting to completely destroy hezbollah, just weaken it enough so that the lebanese government can contain them. i fail to see how hitting civilian targets accomplishes this

[PRC-UTE]

Originally posted by il Commie+Jul 14 2006, 03:50 PM--> (il Commie &#064; Jul 14 2006, 03:50 PM)
dso79
There’s nothing wrong with capturing those soldiers, there’s something wrong with the Israeli response. Hizbullah launched a small-scale attack and doesn&#39;t want any escalation, they just want a prisoner swap; if Israel had agreed to that no civilians would have died. Instead, Israel decided to launch a large-scale assault against civilian targets in Lebanon.

Hizbullah are not naive.
They knew exactly what would happen after this action: war.
They knew it would cost the life of many. And still, they did it.
Israel is not an occupier in Lebanon for years. This was an act of pure agression.

I don&#39;t justify Israel&#39;s response. It was a brutal slaughter.
Ulmert and Peretz were able to choose to save lives and exchange prisoners.

But in the middle east, leaders care about their macho more than they care about the lives of their citizens...[/b]

No one expected this scale of reaction. It doesn&#39;t make sense as a retaliation with what triggered it, in fact it will likely inspire countless more people to want to strike back at israel. The action by the guerillas in taking hostages for exchange was essentially logical; the israeli reaction in that context is not.

I think at the heart of the Israeli response is the US determination to destabilise the whole Arab region as a buildup towards more war, probably with Syria and then Iran. Israel&#39;s very existence lies in its alliance with the USA and its actions have to be viewed in that context. Bush basically implied that the violence was aimed at Syria when he didn&#39;t know he was being taped in a conversation with Blair - read about it here. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13901209/) :D :o

[Jamal]

at night, the israeli air-force bombed military bases for the Lebanese army, killing 13 and injuring 40&#33; :angry:

I thought they said they wanted to strengthen the army for it to be spread on the border.
How can they lie them selves out of this?

[dusk]

Israël are war mongerers.
I hate them for that.&#33;&#33;
:angry:

[вор в законе]

Death toll until now is:

210 Lebanese - 24 Israelis.

[Jamal]

now they are using prohibited weopons, such as the ones containing sulfer, in the city of Tyre. Someone should do something about this. :angry:

[bayano]

Originally posted by Red [email protected] 18 2006, 07:10 AM
Death toll until now is:

210 Lebanese - 24 Israelis.
doesnt even include whats happening in gaza, which the brutal lebanon attacks are helping to distract from.

one of the fundamental issues of both israel and the usa- the need for an enemy. for israel, the need for an enemy provides them with a plethora of great benefits:
keeps the truckloads of aid coming from the usa
keeps the population conservative and fearful
keeps some parts of the world unduly sympathetic
keeps the war economy going
keeps militarism as the national lifestyle and policy
keeps security as the phantom lead issue
covers-up/provides the need for ethnic cleansing
and more&#33;

its not simply either a desire to see eventual US entanglement with syria or iran (much more likely a proxy war to prove that they can be shunted if need be), nor is it about pre-empting or eradicating "retaliatory capability". israel&#39;s lifeblood is war, and this helps up the ante, if only for a little while or even if it possibly threatens to widen the conflict toward sides that can actually hit back (like hizbullah has the chutzpah to try to do)

for hizbullah&#39;s part, i think whats interesting is how israel behaves with relative impunity and how restrained hizbullah had been for a while now with its obviously sizeable arsenal. while i cant condone the attack on non-combatants, they are showing they are something of a force to the israelis and the small posibility that this could end with an israeli defeat seems worth the risks from their perspective

[redsoldier32]

here what i think, listen i think jews are humans too, so cant we get all along, seriously, the government of israel sucks hard, and fanatic suck too, that&#39;s why u got everybody shooting themselves, people it&#39;s just religon, dont kill yourself over what some guy wrote 1000 years ago because you think you have to, its only religon, thats why we should get rid of the name israel and palestine, and thus we shall the call the People&#39;s Republic of Shama-lama ding dong



i think the israelies used to be brave, a long time ago they were always gettin invaded, im talkin ancient times, and always had the balls to defend themselves and fight for their defense, now they take tanks and kill little arab children...im reffering to the government not people




p.s: jews are peope who follow the religon, not race of people, because anyone can be a jew so yeah

[YKTMX]

Hezbollah should hang the Zionist soldiers from the nearest available lamppost.

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2006, 03:10 PM
Hezbollah should hang the Zionist soldiers from the nearest available lamppost.
Yeah because that won&#39;t cause further problems <_<

[YKTMX]

Originally posted by Jazzratt+Jul 18 2006, 03:38 PM--> (Jazzratt @ Jul 18 2006, 03:38 PM)
[email protected] 18 2006, 03:10 PM
Hezbollah should hang the Zionist soldiers from the nearest available lamppost.
Yeah because that won&#39;t cause further problems <_< [/b]
How so?

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by YKTMX+Jul 18 2006, 03:40 PM--> (YKTMX @ Jul 18 2006, 03:40 PM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2006, 03:38 PM

[email protected] 18 2006, 03:10 PM
Hezbollah should hang the Zionist soldiers from the nearest available lamppost.
Yeah because that won&#39;t cause further problems <_<
How so? [/b]
As much as it is isael&#39;s fault and so on we have to recognise some basic truths: If Hezbollah, Palestine, Lebanon or any other organistaions or nations react to Israel the way Israel would react to them then the US and her allies are going to come down on them like a ton of shit. I would love to see Israel defeated , but exectuting prisoners just isn&#39;t going to help and will most likley hinder the process.

[YKTMX]

f Hezbollah, Palestine, Lebanon or any other organistaions or nations react to Israel the way Israel would react to them then the US and her allies are going to come down on them like a ton of shit.

I don&#39;t really understand. You&#39;re saying if the Palestinians and the Arabs would just "play nice" and not upset the bear, the Zionists would leave them alone? I don&#39;t accept that. The only way the Zionists are going to be stopped and Israel destroyed is by mass, popular Palestinian and Arab resistance.

Hezbollah captured two Zionists soldiers and Hamas captured one; but these events were just a useful pretext for an already defined Israeli imperial goal - the destruction of resistance in the Gaza and Southern Lebanon. This being an intermediary goal between the general annihilation of the Palestinian nation as both a political and actual entity.

The idea that these goals can be resisted by sitting on your hands, praying to god, making links with Israeli peace campaigners, boycotting things and "pleading" with the "international community" is a fantasy. They can be resisted by

a) armed Palestinian and wider Arab resistance and fighting
b) a popular Pan-Arab revolution that will sweep away both the Arabic dictators and the Zionist state

Everything else is an illusion.

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2006, 04:09 PM

f Hezbollah, Palestine, Lebanon or any other organistaions or nations react to Israel the way Israel would react to them then the US and her allies are going to come down on them like a ton of shit.

I don&#39;t really understand. You&#39;re saying if the Palestinians and the Arabs would just "play nice" and not upset the bear, the Zionists would leave them alone? I don&#39;t accept that. The only way the Zionists are going to be stopped and Israel destroyed is by mass, popular Palestinian and Arab resistance.
No. I&#39;m saying thwey should play &#39;nicer&#39;. Killing prisoners just won&#39;t help. Attacking Israel military infastructure will. The problem with fighting Israel is the massive amount of American support it has though. If we are honest with ourselves we have to admit that Israel has got the arabs in a pretty fucking harsh bind.



Hezbollah captured two Zionists soldiers and Hamas captured one; but these events were just a useful pretext for an already defined Israeli imperial goal - the destruction of resistance in the Gaza and Southern Lebanon. This being an intermediary goal between the general annihilation of the Palestinian nation as both a political and actual entity. I don&#39;t disagree with you but you have to recogniser that by commiting more violence against small, expendible (in Israeli eyes) targets such as soldiers all that is achieved is giving the Isreali war machine a useful pretext.


The idea that these goals can be resisted by sitting on your hands, praying to god, making links with Israeli peace campaigners, boycotting things and "pleading" with the "international community" is a fantasy.When did I advocate this? The fact is that currently the vast majority of public opinion in countries that aren&#39;t palestine and lebanon public opinion is aginst hamas and hexbollah. it isn&#39;t right but it is what is real.

They can be resisted by

a) armed Palestinian and wider Arab resistance and fighting
b) a popular Pan-Arab revolution that will sweep away both the Arabic dictators and the Zionist state

Everything else is an illusion. a) Targetted at what? A few soldiers? Or the heart of the Zionist machine?
b) Sounds a bit of a pipe-dream to me given current circumstances, but it would certianly rectify the situation.

I would like to add
c) A mixure of a) and revolutions in the countries that support Israel (especially the US) so that resitance is not crushed by intervention by foriegn powers. (This is also, I&#39;ll admit a little far fetched, but I&#39;d say it was the best after option b).

[bayano]

firstly, i think its a silly side issue what we believe international actors should do. i think the pflp should launch an offensive, i think the dflp, plf, pflp, pflp(gc), and ppp should unite, i think israeli anarchists and communists should get off their asses and take some direct action into the streets, i think cuba should do this and the zapatistas do that. well, unless theres a hizbullah person listening to you, what difference does it make what you think they should do? its kinda fun to play out those roles, but it doesnt mean anything.

the revolutionary instead analyzes what hizbullah has and is doing, and the same for israel and hamas. and communicates directly with anyone they know who is directly involved to get a better understanding. and discusses what they should do in their own place. so, what do people propose doing where you are? in chicago, with palestinian leadership we have held three rallies of 50, 200, and 110 people respectively since this has begun. honestly, its more interesting to go to the meetings of these groups to figure out what we should do here locally.

in response to the naive comments that included:


i think the israelies used to be brave, a long time ago they were always gettin invaded, im talkin ancient times, and always had the balls to defend themselves...
p.s: jews are peope who follow the religon, not race of people, because anyone can be a jew so yeah

firstly, those were different israelis. it isnt the same people, and historically connecting israel with those people is both inaccurate and politically confused. do japanese people get to reclaim manchuria, where they came from thousands of years ago? and the case can be made again and again. it isnt the same peoples. and secondly, jewishness is also considered to be an ethnicity by many. in fact, most of the original founders of zionism were secular jews who were racializing jewishness. now, i will never use the term jew to describe a race, unless speaking in the context of those who do, but the fact is that that is exactly what the state of israel was built to do.

and to this comment and its ajoining dialogue:


Hezbollah captured two Zionists soldiers and Hamas captured one; but these events were just a useful pretext for an already defined Israeli imperial goal - the destruction of resistance in the Gaza and Southern Lebanon. This being an intermediary goal between the general annihilation of the Palestinian nation as both a political and actual entity.

i agree. to give it more context, israel famously aided hamas during the 1980s and even &#39;90s, usually against the pflp and other marxist palestinian groups. israel has done a terrific job of decapitating the pflp time and again (by keeping habash in exile, then killing mustafa, then having the pna abduct sa&#39;adat, then taking sa&#39;adat when it looked like his release might become inevitable) and now they are marginal players. hamas and hizbullah provide better enemies, and carry out actions that enrage western sponsors, israeli citizens, and arab governments much more frequently, so they provide better strategic foils.

[Janus]

Israel seems to think that there is some kind of Iranian connection with the kidnapping. I find this quite skeptical and just another fabricated lie to make Iran look bad but what do y&#39;all think?

Israel claims Iran link to crisis (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5192990.stm)

[RebelDog]

I always ask myself why does the US support Israel so fanatically nomatter what crimes it commits? Especially a republican US government. The jewish vote in the US traditionally goes to the democrats. The biggest recruiting call for people like Bin Laden is what is happening to Palestine. No wonder, its fucking genocide and what is happening to Lebanon is more state terrorism. Do the republicans want more recruits for people like Bin Laden in order to keep excuses for their own acts of terrorism and empire building? The US don&#39;t want peace because peace is not a good environment for them to carry out their own violence.
If I was Tony Blair, right now I&#39;d use those warships to halt this madness.

[Janus]

If I was Tony Blair, right now I&#39;d use those warships to halt this madness.
Blair and Bush are pretty good buddies especially since Bush addresses Blair with a "yo".

Anyways, I have heard a lot about the US evacuation of American nationals out of Lebanon. I thought this was nothing more than a US attempt to avoid trouble in the event that Israel kills an American. Rather than running away like they did in Vietnam, the US should actually try to do something about this but sadly, I doubt that will happen.

[bayano]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2006, 05:08 PM
Anyways, I have heard a lot about the US evacuation of American nationals out of Lebanon. I thought this was nothing more than a US attempt to avoid trouble in the event that Israel kills an American. Rather than running away like they did in Vietnam, the US should actually try to do something about this but sadly, I doubt that will happen.
HAH&#33; what would the US actually try to do[I] exactly? help hunt down Hizbullah? help search for their arms? help search for any evidence that could possibly implicate the collusion of any organ of the syrian or iranian states? no, the usa shouldnt do shit there, and everyones better off if theyre out of it. and what ddid you mean about viet nam, isnt it good that they finally ran away?

[Ander]

I&#39;m fucking sick of American and Israeli imperialism. Israel should get the fuck out of Lebanon instead of murdering innocent civilians.

Fuck the IDF, good luck to Hezbollah on blowing up some more Israeli tanks.

[Janus]

HAH&#33; what would the US actually try to do[I] exactly? help hunt down Hizbullah? help search for their arms? help search for any evidence that could possibly implicate the collusion of any organ of the syrian or iranian states? no, the usa shouldnt do shit there, and everyones better off if theyre out of it.
No, I was thinking more along the lines of brokering a cease-fire or at least putting pressure on the Israelis.

and what ddid you mean about viet nam, isnt it good that they finally ran away?
Yeah but they did screw over a lot of people; same goes for what happened in Cambodia and just about every other country that the US has "helped".

[Janus]

So, Israeli troops have entered Lebanon which means that this offensive might go on for some time.

The similarities between the 1982 incursion are becoming more and more apparent.

Israeli ground troops enter Lebanon (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060719/ap_on_re_mi_ea/lebanon_israel)

[bayano]

yeah, this is now officially a ground assualt invasion. while i still dont believe we can be quick to become doomsayers and declare WWIII (or WWIV if you consider WWIII to have already happened), this is a serious development. in chicago, we&#39;ll probably be having a fourth rally on saturday

[CoexisT]

"We have made it very clear that Israel should be allowed to defend herself,&#39;" Bush said. "We&#39;ve asked that as she does so that she be mindful of the Siniora government. It&#39;s very important that this government in Lebanon succeed and survive."

Sometimes... I just want to reach through my computer and slap the shit out of Bush. Actually... all the time.

[CoexisT]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2006, 06:34 AM
yeah, this is now officially a ground assualt invasion. while i still dont believe we can be quick to become doomsayers and declare WWIII (or WWIV if you consider WWIII to have already happened), this is a serious development. in chicago, we&#39;ll probably be having a fourth rally on saturday
Some consider WWII to be WWI(b). What a mess&#33; :lol:

[emma_goldman]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2006, 02:10 AM
I&#39;m fucking sick of American and Israeli imperialism. Israel should get the fuck out of Lebanon instead of murdering innocent civilians.

Fuck the IDF, good luck to Hezbollah on blowing up some more Israeli tanks.
YEAH.

Woohoo "Party of God."

:rolleyes:

[emma_goldman]

Originally posted by CoexisT+Jul 19 2006, 01:52 PM--> (CoexisT @ Jul 19 2006, 01:52 PM)
[email protected] 19 2006, 06:34 AM
yeah, this is now officially a ground assualt invasion. while i still dont believe we can be quick to become doomsayers and declare WWIII (or WWIV if you consider WWIII to have already happened), this is a serious development. in chicago, we&#39;ll probably be having a fourth rally on saturday
Some consider WWII to be WWI(b). What a mess&#33; :lol: [/b]
Some consider us to be in WWIV now.

WWIII = Cold War
WWIV = War against indigenous people

I dunno. :wacko:

[Rev-turkish07]

İ hope anymore we can say it for israels "adios amigos"

[bayano]

so, for anyone keeping score, its at least three hundred lebanese dead (including soldiers and hizbullah militants) to thirty israelis dead (half are soldiers). spain, scandinavia, venezuela and cuba are among the countries with the best responses. more than 100 have died in gaza since the israeli invasion three weeks ago, while three israelis have died in that side of the conflict. for anyone keeping score.

[Samuel]

Isnt is Hezbollah, not Hizbollah?

[Ander]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2006, 12:49 PM
YEAH.

Woohoo "Party of God."

:rolleyes:
I don&#39;t support their beliefs, only their attempts to resist imperialism and aggression.

[Samuel]

Hezbollah has outlived its mission; to remove Israel from their occupation in Southern Lebanon. They should disarm; all they are doing is fucking Lebanon over what with Israeli responces.

[Xiao Banfa]

Bayano, what did the cubans say?

[Phalanx]

Originally posted by Jello+Jul 20 2006, 02:39 AM--> (Jello &#064; Jul 20 2006, 02:39 AM)
[email protected] 19 2006, 12:49 PM
YEAH.

Woohoo "Party of God."

:rolleyes:
I don&#39;t support their beliefs, only their attempts to resist imperialism and aggression. [/b]
That sounds good in theory, but in reality Hezbollah itself is aggressive and imperialistic. While the Palestinians have the right to self-determination, Hezbollah is simply a terrorist organization. They knew what would happen, and they have no qualms in using Lebanon as their battleground.

[Soldier Of Lebanon]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2006, 02:37 AM
Isnt is Hezbollah, not Hizbollah?


if u want to get technical its actually hizeb allah = gods army.

everyone look at this. israeli kids writing on the missiles before they were sent flying into lebanon. sending their pleasant regards. theres going to be a huge demonstration in australia to fight against this rubbish. Israel as usual tends to go too far. and the disgusting media shows what it want to make arabs look bad. CNN jerks.
http://www.terroronhumanity.com/

[Soldier Of Lebanon]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2006, 02:46 AM
Hezbollah has outlived its mission; to remove Israel from their occupation in Southern Lebanon. They should disarm; all they are doing is fucking Lebanon over what with Israeli responces.
its "mission" is actually to protect lebanon FOREVER.

[Soldier Of Lebanon]

Originally posted by Chinghis Khan+Jul 20 2006, 04:22 AM--> (Chinghis Khan &#064; Jul 20 2006, 04:22 AM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2006, 02:39 AM

[email protected] 19 2006, 12:49 PM
YEAH.

Woohoo "Party of God."

:rolleyes:
I don&#39;t support their beliefs, only their attempts to resist imperialism and aggression.
That sounds good in theory, but in reality Hezbollah itself is aggressive and imperialistic. While the Palestinians have the right to self-determination, Hezbollah is simply a terrorist organization. They knew what would happen, and they have no qualms in using Lebanon as their battleground. [/b]
the IDF itself is the most agressive army in the world. the most evil sure, but the most stupid. ull understand what i mean round about judgement day.
Hezeb Allah is no terrorist orginisation. protect your country is not terrorism. we only took the two so they will exchange the amount of our people in their prison. they also pittied the palestinian people who are being killed everyday. its unbelievable how 300 lebanese die mainly savilians and countries governments like america think its justified. israel is bloody evil and power is all it wants. before this though it just wanted to kick out or kill palestinian people and get a full country. now, its delayed due to lebanese ressistance or terrorists known to u fighting back. this war isnt about 2 soldiers my friends. its about 50+ years of continued israeli domination. im sad that saudi pricks have ratted us for u.s support. sad that syria is not intervening, same to iran. actually im sad that ALL arab countries arent united as one. little do they know that one by one they will be next. we gotta act now, we gotta fight to the end. this is our time to gain what we ALWAYS wanted.



............FREEDOM............
i shiver because i havent said or used it in such a long time.

[zomuseri]

how radical can you get soldier of lebanon???
hizbollah is terror, it doesnt protect lebanon they just brought the war back to lebanon.

to fight against imperisalizm is good but not hizbollah way. it gets the same effect like when israel attacks unjustified and then everyone is against us. the same way, hizbolla is no good, nobody is pro hizbollah not even in lebanon, they just want them to fight israel. its extreme nationalism.

i cant understand how people can get extremely nationalistic.

and just for notes, hizbollah killed two arabs in nazareth...
what do you say about that?

[zomuseri]

israelis against war (http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/B121A6B2-3EFF-40F9-B587-F5F39C4DF4B6.htm)

go this link its aljazeera.its just something for a lot of people who think that israel has no right to exist.

lebanon against hizbollah (http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/8CEC68E6-3CEF-4E1B-907B-EF4B8F4D5585.htm)

interesting link from aljazeera about the conflict of hizbollas action.

[bayano]

i think my spelling of hizbullah has already been defended well enough, but my spelling came from lebanese friends. heres the main point for any spelling stalinists to remember: arabic doesnt use the same alphabet written or letter-for-letter as english at all. there are 34 spellings of the president of libya&#39;s name, and alternate english spellings for arabic words from palestine (falasteen, palestina) to sadam hussein (husayn) to most of the rest.

as for people who participate in protests in your towns and homes, make sure to post photos and brief reports of your protests to beirut indymedia or other outlets that people in lebanon will hear from

[Janus]

There have been many clashes now that Israel has moved in on foot. Since they are trying to evacuate a large swath of South Lebanon, this could be a sign of a much larger perhaps even full scale invasion. :angry:

New Israeli-Hezbollah fighting breaks out (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060720/ap_on_re_mi_ea/lebanon_israel_268;_ylt=Ani9JxleQIm5vLczy6U_m0AUvi oA;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl)

[Ander]

Originally posted by Chinghis Khan+Jul 20 2006, 01:22 AM--> (Chinghis Khan @ Jul 20 2006, 01:22 AM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2006, 02:39 AM

[email protected] 19 2006, 12:49 PM
YEAH.

Woohoo "Party of God."

:rolleyes:
I don&#39;t support their beliefs, only their attempts to resist imperialism and aggression.
That sounds good in theory, but in reality Hezbollah itself is aggressive and imperialistic. While the Palestinians have the right to self-determination, Hezbollah is simply a terrorist organization. They knew what would happen, and they have no qualms in using Lebanon as their battleground. [/b]
Well, Israel is an imperialist state which has used a small incident to begin a full-fledged invasion. As long as they are still there I hope Hezbollah (or anyone for that matter) will fuck up the IDF as much as possible. Resistance is resistance.

[Jamal]

Yesterday, at 6 am, 6 of our Lebanese communist comrades where killid.
They where among the Lebanese National Front Resistance(AKA jammoul), they where resisting an Israeli naval landing south of the city of Tyre. After successfuly stoping it, they got information that Israel was gonna have warplanes fire randomly at the direction of the resistance&#39;s bullets.What they did was that they took shelter in a nearby house, exhausted they put their weapons on a table and lie down seconds before a rocket falles down on the house killing them all immediately. I knew one of them, I used to always see him in demonstrations, we used to take turns in shouting out slogans. We laughed together a lot. He was a smart, trustworthy person and he just graduated out of university this year. And now he is a martyre...

[PRC-UTE]

we&#39;re all very sorry for the loss of your comrade and comrades&#33;

I&#39;m glad you were able to tell us of it.

[redsoldier32]

seriously i feel for u man, harsh, now see the thing israel is pretty bad at fighting hezbollah, they&#39;ll kill like 50 people and only ONE will be from hezbollah, now i thought the irsaelis were good at fighting, not saying they&#39;re not, but u have to take this in account, or this could obviously be a ploy to destroy lebabnon for some weird reason

[Janus]

or this could obviously be a ploy to destroy lebabnon for some weird reason
More like trying to destroy Hezbollah once and for all.

[bayano]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21 2006, 02:34 AM
Yesterday, at 6 am, 6 of our Lebanese communist comrades where killid.
They where among the Lebanese National Front Resistance(AKA jammoul), they where resisting an Israeli naval landing south of the city of Tyre. After successfuly stoping it, they got information that Israel was gonna have warplanes fire randomly at the direction of the resistance&#39;s bullets.What they did was that they took shelter in a nearby house, exhausted they put their weapons on a table and lie down seconds before a rocket falles down on the house killing them all immediately. I knew one of them, I used to always see him in demonstrations, we used to take turns in shouting out slogans. We laughed together a lot. He was a smart, trustworthy person and he just graduated out of university this year. And now he is a martyre...
i cant find anything about this on the web. are there any articles? the main mentions of LNRF/jammoul all say that it is a defunct group as of 15 years ago, and sites in arabic like http://www.jammoul.co.nr/

the lcp itself doesnt have much in english on its website either

[emma_goldman]

Originally posted by Chinghis Khan+Jul 20 2006, 04:22 AM--> (Chinghis Khan &#064; Jul 20 2006, 04:22 AM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2006, 02:39 AM

[email protected] 19 2006, 12:49 PM
YEAH.

Woohoo "Party of God."

:rolleyes:
I don&#39;t support their beliefs, only their attempts to resist imperialism and aggression.
That sounds good in theory, but in reality Hezbollah itself is aggressive and imperialistic. While the Palestinians have the right to self-determination, Hezbollah is simply a terrorist organization. They knew what would happen, and they have no qualms in using Lebanon as their battleground. [/b]
I somewhat agree but just look at who says Hezbollah is a terrorist organization.

Canada, pro Israel
United States, pro Isreal
the UK, pro Israel

and of course, Israel itself

Not that I&#39;m saying it&#39;s a revolutionary party. It&#39;s just interesting to whom the party is a terrorist to. :P

In other words, terrorism doesn&#39;t mean a damn thing to us. Unless it&#39;s against our best interests.

[Jamal]

i cant find anything about this on the web. are there any articles? the main mentions of LNRF/jammoul all say that it is a defunct group as of 15 years ago, and sites in arabic like http://www.jammoul.co.nr/

the lcp itself doesnt have much in english on its website either

No, there are no articles yet. The news is still fresh and not declared because our dead comrade&#39;s parents are still in the south and no one can tell them because they will just fall apart(no body is with them to console them).

only two of their parents know because they took refuge in the town of Baysour in the mountlebanon destrict before this incident happened. The LCP cannot declare their death yet.

jammoul was a defunct group as of 8 years ago and not 15. My uncle was among the group that did the last attack against the israeli army in the south, he was wounded and held captive in the(Khiyam) prision and one of his comrades was killed in the fight.

jammoul stayed defunct for 8 years until yesterday&#39;s fight when the 6 got killed. The logo that I have put on the left under the name is the logo of jammoul(in english: Lebanese National Resistance Front).

[bayano]

well, now that you have reported it on the forum, is it alright if we start reporting it to others. obviously jammoul isnt totally defunct since i found links on their site to articles less than a week old. i would love to hear more info and updates- maybe you could even have your own thread to keep us updated. im sorry for your loss, and have been in touch with my friends that are there as often as possible.

[Janus]

An Israeli invasion looks imminent.

Israel masses troops on the border (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060721/ap_on_re_mi_ea/lebanon_israel;_ylt=AtY3vzRhoEsuP.9V1wXb6x9vaA8F;_ ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ--)

And Rice is rejecting a quick cease-fire but rather seeking "long term" peace. :rolleyes:

[Jamal]

If israel stayes hitting from the air, it would be superior and happy because its the only place they are superior in. If they are gonna attack by land, well lets just say that they will be faced by 4 fronts: The Lebanese Army, Hezbollah, Jammoul and hundreds of thousands of hatered-filled armed palestinians who are now in the camps in Lebanon(ain l hilwi, sabra...). The IDF will suffer great losses that Israel woulden&#39;t bare and will retreat with a broken pride. If they didn&#39;t enter yet and they suffered 8 or 9 tanks and 10 maybe more soldiers.

And as to keep you updated on jammoulwell sure. There is also one more site: www.jammoul.com
Its bigger than the one that you have.

[x_ihag]

well its a very good news if jammoul is back,after all this resistance groupe was created to deffend lebanon against the israelien attacks and it was the first to resiste way b4 hezzbuallah existed...i&#39;m not saying i dont want hezzbuallah to resiste but those ppl cant just forget jammoul ,even though i&#39;m against hezzbuallah here in lebanon but i support them in the fact they r fighting against the israelien terror...

Long Live Jammoul &#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

[bayano]

so, can either of you translate anything for me from the jammoul webpage i linked to before? i have friends who speak arabic, but i figured maybe you guys might be interested in doing so.

also, if israel has truly flattened so much of southern lebanon, seems like they would have more capacity to come in and hit hard on the ground. definitely not saying they would win it, but wouldnt lebanese resisters have less capacity in the south by now?

if theres anything else in english about jammoul, its position on hizbullah, its response to the international community, its plans, anything else, i would love to hear it. ill pm you my email

[Zapata]

jamal im not as informed as you, what exactly is jammoul? i feel for the loss of the resistance, and i sure as hell feel for the struggle against the attacks

[Jamal]

Dear commrades, I am sorry to inform you that two more of our brave commrades have fallen in the south of Lebanon in the struggle. Now the number of jammoul warriors fallen in this war sums up to 8.

jammoul is the abreviation in arabic for the word " jabhat l mokwama l wataniyya l lubnaniyya" which meens in english: The Lebanese National Resistance Front.

Jammoul was first initiated in 1982 by the Lebanese Communist Party(LCP).

Jammoul was the resistance that lead Israel out of Beirut and made the IDF go back all the way to the south.

Jammoul, being a leftist, non-religuos resistance, faced many problems in the Lebanese society; some fundimentalist groups and parties started assasinating and killing many of their active members (his name was alexy and he was returning from a successful mition in the south when he got killed by the guns of the sheit AMAL movement led by the current head of the Lebanese parliment Nabeeh Birri, they said they thought he was from the IDF while he was wearing the jammoul bage on his rightsleeve and the communist bage on his left) as a result the jammoul resistance stopped for 8 years after it returned with 7 opperation against the traitor Lahed and his militia.

Now jammoul is finally back with 8 martyrs.

[Zapata]

thank you,
hasta la victoria siempre

[Tekun]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2006, 09:37 AM
Dear commrades, I am sorry to inform you that two more of our brave commrades have fallen in the south of Lebanon in the struggle. Now the number of jammoul warriors fallen in this war sums up to 8.

jammoul is the abreviation in arabic for the word " jabhat l mokwama l wataniyya l lubnaniyya" which meens in english: The Lebanese National Resistance Front.

Jammoul was first initiated in 1982 by the Lebanese Communist Party(LCP).

Jammoul was the resistance that lead Israel out of Beirut and made the IDF go back all the way to the south.

Jammoul, being a leftist, non-religuos resistance, faced many problems in the Lebanese society; some fundimentalist groups and parties started assasinating and killing many of their active members (his name was alexy and he was returning from a successful mition in the south when he got killed by the guns of the sheit AMAL movement led by the current head of the Lebanese parliment Nabeeh Birri, they said they thought he was from the IDF while he was wearing the jammoul bage on his rightsleeve and the communist bage on his left) as a result the jammoul resistance stopped for 8 years after it returned with 7 opperation against the traitor Lahed and his militia.

Now jammoul is finally back with 8 martyrs.
Thank you for informing us brother
We feel for all of our brothers that fell in the struggle


However, as you have stated in your post, Jammoul was under attack by many in the Lebanese society (fundamentalists and religious traditionalists)
As a result, I believe that we must not make the mistake of supporting Hezbollah (religious fundamentalists), because regardless of what has happened and will happen, Hezbollah has and will continue to harass any anti religious revolutionary group that wishes to reform Lebanon according to Marxist principles
We must condemn Hezbollah for their actions against Israeli civilians and progressive social groups, yet we must severely condemn and take action against the Israeli gov for targetting innocent civilians and occupying Arab Palestine

[Jamal]

I believe that we must not make the mistake of supporting Hezbollah (religious fundamentalists), because regardless of what has happened and will happen, Hezbollah has and will continue to harass any anti religious revolutionary group that wishes to reform Lebanon according to Marxist principles


Commrade you are right, Hezbollah was among the parties that harassed jammoul; but at this time, we cannot be against Hezbollah in their mision to retreave Samir Kuntar(he is a communist by the way) and many more captives in the Israeli prisions and to take back conquered land( shibaa and the hills of kafarshouba). After this war is over, we retake our positions against each other: Hezbollah as a religious fundimentalist and us as leftists but now, we are both a resistance to the same enemy so we have no option but to come together for us to be stronger.

[bayano]

jamal, for those of us that trust that the information you send is accurate (please forgive me, but this is the internet after all), youre posts are probably the most important of the dozen or more threads and hundreds of posts on the topic already.

for any people from the US, the United States Senate (specifically the Democratic Party) is attacking the Iraqi Prime Minister for condemning Israel&#39;s actions in Lebanon, and trying to prevent him from being able to speak before US Congress tomorrow unless he condemns hizbullah. at least one DEMOCRAT Senator is planning to boycott the speech. despite my obvious position on this news, i still dont support the faux government in iraq, tho. but theyre better than the Democrats.

also, did i post the panamanian MLN-29 statement on this? here is my crudely translated version of it (remember, panama has proportionally one of the largest arab, muslim and jewish populations in all of the americas):


We denounce the Israeli aggression against Lebanon and Palestine
The Cuban chapter of the network of networks "in Defence of Humanity"
made up of intellectuals, artists, social activists, and all of the
honest people of the planet denounced in the whole range (in every
way) the brutal aggression of Israel against Lebanon and the scaling
genocide against the Palestinian people.

We must condemn the impunity that bonds the aggressor government
(Israel) to the United States, the cowardly- never more evident than
today- European Union, the inertia of the security counsel of the UN,
and the complicity of the big news media.

This urgent crisis created by the Zionist authorities, favorite and
crony of the White House, that exterminated entire populations,
destroyed cities, and continues violating in a flagrant manner most
fundamental human rights. The proper ideas of justice, international
legality and the possibility of a peaceful coexistence between
nations, are in peril of disappearing before barbarity.

Such continues to disturb the images of the monstrous holocaust, it is
not possible to accept that the world contemplates passivity to the
massacre of the civilian population in Lebanon and Palestine. We raise
a moral barrier against this insensibility, state terrorism, this
genocide.

[emma_goldman]

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m225/ilovesalem_2006/p1_210706_170715a.jpg

[chebol]

A few useful articles.

http://www.greenleft.org.au/back/2006/676/676p12b.htm

http://www.greenleft.org.au/back/1993/111/111cent.htm
http://www.greenleft.org.au/back/2002/494/494p11.htm
http://www.greenleft.org.au/back/1997/263/263p12.htm
http://www.greenleft.org.au/back/1997/283/283p19.htm
http://www.greenleft.org.au/back/1995/205/205p22.htm
http://www.greenleft.org.au/back/2006/676/676p12.htm

[Janus]

I hope no one minds but I moved the two pics above to Graphics.

[bayano]

well, just so long as we know where they went. by the way, about this whole commie club, are there any US members of it that are members of any other communist group besides the fpm or the cl?

[Janus]

A bit random but ok...

Yeah, for example: IWW or SDS. And many others are involved in smaller, local orgs. probably.

[Zapata]

does anyone know how well armed hezbollah, or the lesser known groups like jammoul, are? obviously hezbollah has a lot in the way of katyusha rockets, but i was thinking that they could menace israeli air strikes with light surface to air missiles, ie stingers. do they not have access to these weapons?

[x_ihag]

well they say that hezbollah is part of the iranian army and he&#39;s troops are well trained in iran ,but how much weapons and missels does he have well those kind of information stay&#39;s secret but as they say he can stay years in this war without getting any help or resource&#39;s from iran or syria so i guess he really have a big amount of weapon&#39;s....dunno if anyone else could help us ,i&#39;ll try to know more anyway...

[Zapata]

it was good, i guess, to see israel pull out of Bint Jbail, claiming victory and the accomplishment of their mission to paralyze Hezbollah there. At least theyre avoiding the Vietnam-esque quagmire that would follow a longterm occupation, as in their 1980&#39;s endeavor. While this would mean victory in the end for Hezbollah and the resistance, i&#39;d personally rather see a withdrawal now before any more lebanese civilians are killed. Plus, ideally such a withdrawal would lead to an end in rocket attacks on northern israel.

this is, however, a clear case of "let&#39;s not and say we did"

[Jamal]

Well, what I think is that Hezbollah has surface to air missiles.

They are not using them in my opinion is because they are not many and they wont to use them where it counts.

As an example, think of if Israel made a naval landing of about 5000 troops some where in Lebanon; this these soldiers need air coverage for their survival, right?
If Hezbollah used their surface to air missiles then, the 5000 soldeirs would fall in no time between dead and captives and then the whole Israeli government would fall causing an immidiate withdrawal.

I don&#39;t know, this is just my opinion anyway.

[x_ihag]

Well, what I think is that Hezbollah has surface to air missiles.

They are not using them in my opinion is because they are not many and they wont to use them where it counts.

As an example, think of if Israel made a naval landing of about 5000 troops some where in Lebanon; this these soldiers need air coverage for their survival, right?
If Hezbollah used their surface to air missiles then, the 5000 soldeirs would fall in no time between dead and captives and then the whole Israeli government would fall causing an immidiate withdrawal.

I don&#39;t know, this is just my opinion anyway.

yeah maybe ,but does any1 know how much weapons and missels they have??

[Soldier Of Lebanon]

Originally posted by [email protected] 31 2006, 09:02 AM

yeah maybe ,but does any1 know how much weapons and missels they have??
they began with 12000 missiles and rockets. since the attacks on lebanon killed 55 women and children and elderlies in only one missile from israeli planes there has been no bombing in the south of lebanon for 48 hours now.

hizeb allah threatens to use its missiles named "earthquake" which will easily reach israels le viv state. they are full of surprises and i think they are saving the best till last.

[Janus]

Well, what I think is that Hezbollah has surface to air missiles.
But why not fire just one. It would be a major symbolic victory at least and may make Israel think twice.

Also, the thing is that a SA missile base would need to be set up quick and evacuated quickly to prevent the Israelis from discovering it.

[Jamal]

If they fire one, the israelis would know what kind of SA missiles Hezbollah has and then they will know how to avoid them and so they will lose much of their ability and the element of surprise&#33;

[Janus]

If they fire one, the israelis would know what kind of SA missiles Hezbollah has and then they will know how to avoid them and so they will lose much of their ability and the element of surprise&#33;
Israel probably already knows and there air suppression tactics are already there such as jamming or counter-radiation.

So there is a chance that the missiles (depending on how new they are) may not be effective at all.

[Jamal]

You are wrong here commrade, Israel doesn&#39;t know everything about Hezbollah&#39;s weopons; They where pritty dam surprised at the surface to sea missiles that Hezbollah launched a weak and a half ago which made the warship that was bombing Beirut( which is one of the best in Israel by the way and it is one of 3 by what Nasrallah said in his speach) which broaght great damage to the ship causing it to make sigal flairs calling SOS.This caused the Israeli ships to go a distance of 10 km from the shore wich was thought of as a "safe distance". Today, another surface to sea missile was launched at an israeli warship parallel tothe shore of Tyre and that missile hit the ship directly causing great damage (this is still fresh and there isn&#39;t yet information about this). These missiles proved to be new and advanced, if Hezbollah has SA missiles, I don&#39;t think they will be less advanced also taking into consideration that Hezbollah&#39;s great deal of weoponary where equipped recently (in these 2 or 3 years).

[Janus]

Needless to say, Israel already has air defense suppression measures so it is irrelevant whether Hezbollah launches one or a hundred if these missiles are obsolete.

In the race between air defense and air defense suppression, 2 to 3 years can make things easily obsolete.

[bunk]

Originally posted by [email protected] 31 2006, 04:25 PM

Also, the thing is that a SA missile base would need to be set up quick and evacuated quickly to prevent the Israelis from discovering it.
Same with all the missiles Hizbollah are firing. If you saw footage of he battles in Fallujah, Iraq. Then you&#39;ll see that the basic SAM&#39;s can be fired and moved on.
Those Sam&#39;s can shoot down Helicopters and make planes stay clear. etc.

[Janus]

Then you&#39;ll see that the basic SAM&#39;s can be fired and moved on.
Yes, I&#39;m aware of that. What I&#39;m saying is that they need to be moved quickly before an Israeli counterstrike.


Those Sam&#39;s can shoot down Helicopters and make planes stay clear. etc.
Planes have countermeasures such as anti-radiation missiles and electronic jamming,etc.

[Janus]

Anyways, it looks like there may be no stop to this for a while.

Olmert has stated that the offensive won&#39;t end untill their goals are achieved.

No peace in the forthcoming days (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5232838.stm)

[x_ihag]

In my opinion Hezbullah has more surprise&#39;s to show us, coz nasrallah always promise us their will be more and more and more ,so let us wait and see&#33;&#33;

[Jamal]

Exactly

[Janus]

It looks like Israel is expanding its offensive despite original promises that it would not do so.

Israel Expands Ground Offensive, New Air Attacks (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060801/ap_on_re_mi_ea/lebanon_israel;_ylt=AoR_aqGIjE3n1F4Z_.lqOq1vaA8F;_ ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ--)

[x_ihag]

It looks like Israel is expanding its offensive despite original promises that it would not do so.

Israel Expands Ground Offensive, New Air Attacks

WTF &#33; in Baalbek i didnt heard about it ,oh maybe coz i didnt watch the news ,but comandos r involved how lovelly &#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; :huh:

[Zapata]

hey, its not like israel actually feels the need to live up to anything previously promised. remember when it was promised that they would not send any ground troops in whatsoever?

[Jamal]

They went to Baalbak and infiltrated a local hospital.
They killed 11 people and captured 3 (all civillians) claiming that they cought 3 of Hezbollah fighters.WTF&#33;&#33;&#33;

[Jamal]

I just heard at the news that the casualties summed up to 17 and not 11 as I previously stated. ALL ARE CIVILLIANS&#33;&#33;&#33;

[Janus]

Israel claims that they were 5 captured in the raid though Hezbollah states that the 5 are not Hezbollah fighters and were not captured at the hospital.

The IDF has stated that it will advance to Litani and wait for an international foce to arrive so it looks like there will be a "short" occupation of some sort.

More troops going into Lebanon (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060802/ap_on_re_mi_ea/lebanon_israel;_ylt=AsprHft_HUtkg1ZR5uoULX9vaA8F;_ ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ--)

[Jamal]

No&#33; I hear this from friends in Baalbak, They have caught a neighbour of his who just had a surgery and he was in the hospital and they killed a pregnent women that went to the hospital to give birth and her baby that would never see light injuring also her husband and daughter.

3 communists where killed by the way, I know one of them " Maxym Jammaleddien" I knew him personaly. They died in the bombardment and they where not fighting with jammoul.

[x_ihag]

3 communists where killed by the way, I know one of them " Maxym Jammaleddien" I knew him personaly. They died in the bombardment and they where not fighting with jammoul.

:angry: that really should stop &#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

May they rest in peace

[Janus]

The bombardment is having a very telling effect on the aid that can be sent in.

Lebanon damage &#39;holding up&#39; aid (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5242898.stm)

[Janus]

I&#39;ve heard that the US is planning to train the Lebanese army so that they can occupy the south? The link later dissappeared so I&#39;m not sure if it&#39;s true or not.

Doesn&#39;t seem to make sense when Israel is planning to advance to the Litani and occupy the whole region until NATO arrives which may take a while.

Israel readies new push into Lebanon (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060803/ap_on_re_mi_ea/lebanon_israel;_ylt=AguwPVP6MoZ5gP.Ip7QkPkBvaA8F;_ ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ--)

[Jamal]

no, actually its nonsense to me because first the Lebanese army cannot OCCUPY the south&#33; The south is a Lebanese land&#33; WTF&#33;
I also don&#39;t think that the US are gonna train the army also because of what you said:
Doesn&#39;t seem to make sense when Israel is planning to advance to the Litani and occupy the whole region until NATO arrives which may take a while

Also, the communists killed in the commandos operation in Baalbak are 6, the ones that are members of the LCP and 3 are not members(meening they don&#39;t have the ID so the LCP cannot say that they are communists)&#33;&#33;&#33;

[Janus]

no, actually its nonsense to me because first the Lebanese army cannot OCCUPY the south&#33; The south is a Lebanese land&#33; WTF&#33;
I also don&#39;t think that the US are gonna train the army also because of what you said
The news article seems to have dissappeared so it may have been a heading mistake or something.

If NATO is moving in then the Lebanese army will not be able to go in.

[Jamal]

If NATO is moving in then the Lebanese army will not be able to go in.

Exactly&#33;

[Janus]

^^No need to spam.

Hmm...Hezbollah has threatened to bomb Tel Aviv if the Israelis strike Beirut which they have done.

Hezbollah leader threatens Tel Aviv (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060803/ap_on_re_mi_ea/mideast_fighting_nasrallah;_ylt=AuxY8MQHd.k70osmrS UcTa2s0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3b2NibDltBHNlYwM3MTY-)

[Jamal]

they have bombed the shouthern suburb of Beirut and one time Beirut itself(just a light housebut causing no casualties in the city itself) but if they bomb Beirut, yeah I guess they will bomb Tel Aviv&#33;

[Jamal]

Olmert then quickly replied to Nasralla&#39;s speach saying that if Hezbollah targets Tell Aviv, the air force will shut down the electricity and the water in all Lebanon :(

[Janus]

Well, the infrastructure is already destroyed in Southern Lebanon and the Israelis hit a major power plant in Beirut which is quite detrimental in many ways.

[Jamal]

I wasn&#39;t talking about the south, the south is all destroyed now.

The power in Beirut is still on, but Olmert said that if TA was hit, He will hit the remaining infrastructure till the end = no power and no water for all of Lebanon.

[Janus]

Looks like the US is finally supporting an immediate cease-fire.

Rice signals possible Lebanon compromise (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060804/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/us_mideast)

Oh and concerning the US aid to the Lebanese army:

Originally posted by AP News

Meanwhile, the State Department said the United States plans to help train and equip the Lebanese army so it can take control of all of the nation&#39;s territory when warfare between Israel and Hezbollah eases.

The program was approved by Rice and Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld to take effect "once we have conditions on the ground permitting," spokesman Sean McCormack said.

McCormack provided no details on what equipment the United States might provide, the training that would be conducted, how many U.S. personnel would be involved, or possible costs.

Last week, the State Department notified Congress it wanted to add &#036;10 million to the &#036;1.5 million it provides annually to the Lebanese military.

Other nations will help out, too, McCormack said.

Gen. John Abizaid, who heads the U.S. Central Command, told the Senate Armed Services Committee Thursday the Lebanese armed force "needs a significant upgrade of equipment and training capability that I believe the Western nations, particularly the United States, can assist with."

Abizaid also said he believes Lebanon can extend government control over the entire country if it gets sufficient help, including an international peacekeeping force with a clear mandate, cooperation from the Lebanese government and "robust rules of engagement."

[Jamal]

Well that is a good thing and a bad. Its good well because our army will be stronger and a bod because they want the army to go and fight Hezbollah if nessecary to keep them away from the south and they live in the south so that meens a lot of trouble. any ways 11.5 mollion &#036; are never enough to make an army&#33;

[Jamal]

Hugo Chavez asked his ambassador in Israel to go back to Vensuella.

This is Great&#33;

[Tarik]

One of the only government to say something, and to take action in this crisis.

[Janus]

Israeli air raids kill 40 civilians in Lebanon (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060804/ts_nm/mideast1_dc_44;_ylt=AlNBZ_5HNBwk0v6hUyIP0JcUvioA;_ ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl)

Israel is isolating Lebanon further with more attacks at infrastructure
Israel warplanes destroy Lebanon bridges (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060804/ap_on_re_mi_ea/lebanon_israel;_ylt=AsnEzjYqQrzBosCH9Zmo371vaA8F;_ ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ--)


Its good well because our army will be stronger and a bod because they want the army to go and fight Hezbollah if nessecary to keep them away from the south and they live in the south so that meens a lot of trouble
Yeah, I&#39;m sure that&#39;s the main objective.

[Zapata]

what i have a real problem with is that the other nations of the world do not take heavy enough criticism of israel&#39;s attacks on the infrastructure, which blatantly are not against hezbollah. it amounts solely to israel flexing its military might

[Jamal]

Another massacer happened this afternoon in the Bikaa region 33 where killed and many others wounded.

[Janus]

what i have a real problem with is that the other nations of the world do not take heavy enough criticism of israel&#39;s attacks on the infrastructure, which blatantly are not against hezbollah
Most of them do but they can&#39;t do much except try to mediate or send in troops for a peacekeeping force. Even the US is now calling for an immediate cease-fire despite the fact that they have always been Israel&#39;s strongest backer.

[Janus]

Hmm...it seems that Hezbollah is well armed against the IDF&#39;s iron cavalry.

Missiles neutralizing Israeli tanks (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060804/ap_on_re_mi_ea/mideast_fighting_hezbollah_s_missiles)

[Jamal]

Iy is very good that Hezbollah has these kinds of weopons, they can at least damage Israel&#39;s military might.
But I hate the way they start saying " these missles are made in Syria" or " There was 100 Iranian soldiers helping Hezbollah target the Israeli warship Harat"
These make me sick, I meen if you want to attack Syria or Iran just do it Its making me sick hering the same old words again and again.

[Janus]

I agree. It doesn&#39;t matter where they got the weapons as long as they are no longer helpless against the Israeli&#39;s armored attacks; something that has been the bane of many other military forces.

[Janus]

Israel is renewing attacks on Beirut and the surrounding suburbs.

Israel renews attacks on Beirut suburbs (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060805/ap_on_re_mi_ea/lebanon_israel)

If Hezbollah fulfills its promises of bombing Tel Aviv then some of the worst fighting still lies ahead as Israel pushes its offensive further northwards.

[TupacAndChe4Eva]

How the fuck can the Lebanese army be trained to occup Lebanese land? <_<

I have lost all sympathy for Israel, its citizens and supporters.

As I said on another thread, there was an unorganised mass (thousands) demonstration in support of this military action.

[Janus]

How the fuck can the Lebanese army be tyrained to occup Lebanese land?
Seems like the US wants them to prevent Hezbollah from gaining dominance in the South. This of course can only take place after the Israeli offensive ends.


As I said on another thread, there was an unorganised mass (thousands) demonstration in support of this military action.
Yeah, the approval ratings for the offensive are quite high as compared to 1982.

[Severian]

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2006, 06:52 AM
Well that is a good thing and a bad. Its good well because our army will be stronger and a bod because they want the army to go and fight Hezbollah if nessecary to keep them away from the south and they live in the south so that meens a lot of trouble. any ways 11.5 mollion &#036; are never enough to make an army&#33;
1. Obviously the U.S. is not going to arm and train the Lebanese Army to fight against Israel - they won&#39;t be getting anti-air and anti-armor weapons, for example. They&#39;ll be getting weapons and training that&#39;d help them against Hezbollah - who have no warplanes or tanks - or other domestic opponents.

2. Military aid is a standard way for the U.S. to get influence over a country&#39;s military. Consider Latin American history for a moment.

Among many other examples: they continued one kind of aid to Chile under Allende. Military aid. In order to set up the coup.

The Lebanese army, after all, ain&#39;t the army of the Lebanese nation or anything like that. It&#39;s the army of the Lebanese ruling class, which will always sell out to imperialism, openly or covertly.

[Jamal]

The Lebanese army, after all, ain&#39;t the army of the Lebanese nation or anything like that. It&#39;s the army of the Lebanese ruling class, which will always sell out to imperialism, openly or covertly.

No actually, in the past years after general Michelle Slaymen became general, he is working for the defence of Lebanon and now the army is politically much better and as a proof, yesterday in a commandos attack on the north of the port city of Tyre, the Lebanese army opposed the commandose bay all meens of heavy machine guns. In this battle there was the Lebanese army, Hezbolla fighter and some jammoul members(limited to 3 or 4 people in this battle). The landing after faced by these forces was quickly stopped and the commandose retreated with casualties and injuries. The army here conceded two casualties, 4 wounded and a troop carrier destroyed by an appachie strike.

[The Grey Blur]

You&#39;ve got to admit the kidnapping was brilliant. Reminescent of the Vietminh.

[Tarik]

Yeah right, the tunnel, and all undergalleries were a clever and bold idea.So much work to kidnap only 2 soldiers.

[Janus]

Israel intensifies airstrikes in Lebanon (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060807/ap_on_re_mi_ea/lebanon_israel;_ylt=AooWFYYU6fS1S6hS_Yp9ipxvaA8F;_ ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ--)

Israel won&#39;t stop unless there is an intenational intervention, but the UN won&#39;t intervene untill there is a ceasefire which leaves us with a continuing problem here.

Right now, some of the Arab nations are sending a delegation to the UN to plead Lebanon&#39;s case. Hopefully, something will come out of this.

[Severian]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2006, 06:35 AM

The Lebanese army, after all, ain&#39;t the army of the Lebanese nation or anything like that. It&#39;s the army of the Lebanese ruling class, which will always sell out to imperialism, openly or covertly.

No actually, in the past years after general Michelle Slaymen became general, he is working for the defence of Lebanon and now the army is politically much better and as a proof, yesterday in a commandos attack on the north of the port city of Tyre, the Lebanese army opposed the commandose bay all meens of heavy machine guns. In this battle there was the Lebanese army, Hezbolla fighter and some jammoul members(limited to 3 or 4 people in this battle). The landing after faced by these forces was quickly stopped and the commandose retreated with casualties and injuries. The army here conceded two casualties, 4 wounded and a troop carrier destroyed by an appachie strike.
A bit of good news...but isn&#39;t that "lowered expections"? Isn&#39;t that the least even a bourgeois army can do - to occasionally make some effort to defend the national territory?

(OK, some regimes might respond like a TV sheriff: "I think you&#39;ll find there&#39;s less I can do.")

[Patchd]

Originally posted by Severian+Aug 9 2006, 08:46 AM--> (Severian @ Aug 9 2006, 08:46 AM)
[email protected] 5 2006, 06:35 AM

The Lebanese army, after all, ain&#39;t the army of the Lebanese nation or anything like that. It&#39;s the army of the Lebanese ruling class, which will always sell out to imperialism, openly or covertly.

No actually, in the past years after general Michelle Slaymen became general, he is working for the defence of Lebanon and now the army is politically much better and as a proof, yesterday in a commandos attack on the north of the port city of Tyre, the Lebanese army opposed the commandose bay all meens of heavy machine guns. In this battle there was the Lebanese army, Hezbolla fighter and some jammoul members(limited to 3 or 4 people in this battle). The landing after faced by these forces was quickly stopped and the commandose retreated with casualties and injuries. The army here conceded two casualties, 4 wounded and a troop carrier destroyed by an appachie strike.
A bit of good news...but isn&#39;t that "lowered expections"? Isn&#39;t that the least even a bourgeois army can do - to occasionally make some effort to defend the national territory?

(OK, some regimes might respond like a TV sheriff: "I think you&#39;ll find there&#39;s less I can do.") [/b]
If the Lebanese army reacts, then Israel can have an excuse to openly declare war on Lebanon, so instead of being a War between Hezbollah (cough, really against the Lebanese civilians) and Israel it would be a war between Israel and Lebanon. Syria would get involved in the hope that they would be able to influence Lebanon once more, the US would join on the side of Israel, and then Iran being Syria&#39;s ally would enter the war. the US and the UK, and other imperialist forces in Afghanistan and Iraq can be used to invade Iran and Syria.

[Janus]

I&#39;m not sure if Israel is still planning on moving to the Litani but they are definitely trying to make some new and improved gains before a ceasefire is imposed; a ceasefire that many of the nations view as not enough and unfair.

Israel to push even deeper into Lebanon (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060809/ap_on_re_mi_ea/lebanon_israel;_ylt=AnRQ4BJU5XFgwXLkbsaFTUNvaA8F;_ ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ--)

[Jamal]

Well the Israeli government was said to have given the IDF 30 more days to try to reach the Litani.

Also, the Israeli side admitted that 15 IDF soldiers died today

[Janus]

Well the Israeli government was said to have given the IDF 30 more days to try to reach the Litani.
I&#39;m not sure if the IDF even with its new commander can accomplish this especially if a cease-fire is enacted soon.

Israel OKs expansion; 15 troops killed (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060809/ap_on_re_mi_ea/lebanon_israel_918;_ylt=Am76aAbMJ0Dqob0GWsgdKN8Uvi oA;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl)

US, France still differ on UN Mideast resolution (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060809/wl_nm/mideast_un_dc)

[Soldier Of Lebanon]

OMGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG GUYS U GOTTA CHECK THIS OUT. ITS THE VIDEO ON RIGHT THAT LOADS UP. this is what the truth is all about. sky news thought they could mock someone with hezbolla but they got crunched. this is amazing.

http://www.terroronhumanity.com/

spread it to everyone.. this is the first piece of truth ive seen on any rupert murdock owned news program.

[Patchd]

Originally posted by Soldier Of [email protected] 10 2006, 12:48 PM
OMGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG GUYS U GOTTA CHECK THIS OUT. ITS THE VIDEO ON RIGHT THAT LOADS UP. this is what the truth is all about. sky news thought they could mock someone with hezbolla but they got crunched. this is amazing.

http://www.terroronhumanity.com/

spread it to everyone.. this is the first piece of truth ive seen on any rupert murdock owned news program.
No offence, I think this has been shown on another topic already, but yeah, its funny. Also notice how sky news tries to silence Galloway by lowering his volume and increasing the volume of the reporter.

[Jamal]

yah, Gallaway was just amazing, the way he just went on and on and the way he just presented the facts so simply, ah I just loved it :rolleyes:

The IDF went 9 km deep today to the city of Marjeyoun, they faught for like two hours with Hezbollah and after loosing many tanks (Hezbollah are saying 14 but Israel sayes that it does not want to share this information) and men and many more injured, they started retreating and then hid in a kind of police station. They took 400 people, between civillians who work their and officers and policemen, as hostages. I know I&#39;m not supposed to say this, but this is so funy :lol: :D :lol:
There is a hostage situation, call the police&#33; What the police are the hostages&#33; :lol:
Any ways, Hezbollah fighters are surrounding the station.

PS The IDF forces surrounded are about 100, while the Hezbollah troops surrounding them are about 30.

[Janus]

Yeah, heard about the arrests.

But Israel plans to go even deeper if diplomacy fails, something that won&#39;t be difficult with all the haggling going on. <_<

Israel may be gearing up for escalation (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060810/ap_on_re_mi_ea/lebanon_israel)

[Patchd]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2006, 09:06 PM
Yeah, heard about the arrests.

But Israel plans to go even deeper if diplomacy fails, something that won&#39;t be difficult with all the haggling going on. <_<

Israel may be gearing up for escalation (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060810/ap_on_re_mi_ea/lebanon_israel)
Diplomacy will fail, because the US will present an ultimatum that Lebanon will not agree to (such as pre-WWI with Germany and Serbia), the Yanks know this and this is there plan. An Israeli occupied Lebanon will provide a launching point for an invasion of Syria, the Yanks alreayd have two for Iran (Afghanistan and Iraq).

[Janus]

Diplomacy will fail
It seems that the US and France have finally agreed on resolutions and the UN Security Council will be voting on it later.

U.S., France agree on Mideast resolution (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060811/ap_on_re_mi_ea/un_mideast_fighting)

[Jamal]

The convoy returning from Marjeyoon was attacked by the Israeli scout plane, the M K, and until now there are 4 dead and more than 10 injured. They just wanted them so badly, did they.

[Janus]

The Israeli PM has accepted the cease-fire deal however we shouldn&#39;t get too excited as there is still no promise of an Israeli withdrawal.

Israeli PM has accepted cease-fire deal (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060811/ap_on_re_mi_ea/lebanon_israel)

[Janus]

The UN Security Council has just agreed to a resolution calling for a cease-fire and the deployment of a peacekeeping force to the area.

Security Council OKs Mideast peace deal (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060812/ap_on_re_mi_ea/un_mideast_fighting_35)