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Year: 1
12th July 2006, 19:53
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060712/ap_on_...wN5bnN1YmNhdA-- (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060712/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/venezuela_us_cuba;_ylt=ApbBsfppperMpe2vEB2ghAK3IxI F;_ylu=X3oDMTBjMHVqMTQ4BHNlYwN5bnN1YmNhdA--)

Venezuela leader blasts U.S. report By NATALIE OBIKO PEARSON, Associated Press Writer
Wed Jul 12, 12:31 AM ET



President Hugo Chavez rejected a U.S. government report accusing Venezuela of funding efforts by Cuba's Fidel Castro to subvert democracy in Latin America, saying it indicated Washington's aggressive intentions toward Havana.

"They've launched what I consider a new imperialist threat," Chavez said Tuesday in a televised speech. "They've publicized a plan of transition, they think Fidel is going to die."

"This is what I say to U.S. imperialism: Now is when Venezuela will support the Cuban revolution," Chavez added. "Long live Fidel — brother, comrade and partner!"

Chavez was responding to Monday's release of a report by the Presidential Commission for Assistance to a Free Cuba that accused Havana of forestalling a transition to democracy in the communist country and charged that Chavez is using Venezuela's vast oil revenues to prop up Castro.

"There are clear signs the (Cuban) regime is using money provided by the Chavez government in Venezuela to reactivate its networks in the hemisphere to subvert democratic governments," the report said.

Denouncing moves by the Castro government to strengthen its grip on power, it said "the current regime in Havana is working with like-minded governments, particularly Venezuela, to build a network of political and financial support designed to forestall any external pressure to change."

The commission urged the U.S. government to spend $800 million to help non-governmental groups hasten a transition to democracy.

Venezuelan Vice President Jose Vicente Rangel said the report was an announcement of Washington's "intention to attack and subjugate" Cuba.

"The implicit message ... must not be underestimated," Rangel said in a statement Tuesday. "It confirms a policy to which we must be alert."

Chavez was defiant as he warned Washington to watch its own back.

"Instead of thinking about a plan of transition for revolutionary Cuba or revolutionary Venezuela, they should be developing a plan of transition for themselves because this century the U.S. empire will end," he said.

Chavez's close friendship with Castro has long troubled Washington, which considers the Venezuelan leader a destabilizing force in the region, although he was elected democratically. One of President Bush's fiercest critics, Chavez has inked in a series of cooperative deals with Cuba.

ComradeE
12th July 2006, 20:39
Well US imperialism is facing lots of oppisation lately and cant even keep its traditional stomping ground (Latin America) fully under control and its troops bogged in Iraq limit's its military actions which is now the U S's main strenth.leaving room for state's like north Korea ,Iran and Valenzuela to "rebel" against there master's

Also with the rise of china , India and the formation of massive trade block's will lead to massive completion and possibly a new cold war

Si Pinto
12th July 2006, 21:38
I like the way that guy talks. ^_^

Let's hope it's not just talk.

ahab
12th July 2006, 21:41
Originally posted by Si [email protected] 12 2006, 06:39 PM
Let's hope it's not just talk.
yea lets hope

Eleutherios
12th July 2006, 21:42
Originally posted by Year: [email protected] 12 2006, 04:54 PM
Denouncing moves by the Castro government to strengthen its grip on power, it said "the current regime in Havana is working with like-minded governments, particularly Venezuela, to build a network of political and financial support designed to forestall any external pressure to change."
Err...isn't that what the US is doing too?

Matty_UK
12th July 2006, 22:33
Something's just clicked.

Venezuela's military build-up.

To defend Cuba?

Si Pinto
12th July 2006, 23:06
Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2006, 07:34 PM
Something's just clicked.

Venezuela's military build-up.

To defend Cuba?
Wow!!!

I hope your right.

Year: 1
12th July 2006, 23:23
Some analyst have been urging Cuba and Venezuela to unite. I read that in one of Chomsky's articles and is included in his book Failed States : The Abuse of Power and the Assault on Democracy.

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=10162

Delta
12th July 2006, 23:39
The U.S. empire will only make it out of this century if it can very strongly subjugate the people in both other countries and in this country. And I don't think it can do so.

Year: 1
12th July 2006, 23:48
It can only extend its hold on the world by unmasking its pseudo-democratic facade and reveal itself as a dictatorship. When it does that it will become like the Third Reich--- stomping, killing and pillaging its own people.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SW6ZluiyKIE...20a%20democracy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SW6ZluiyKIE&search=america%20is%20not%20a%20democracy)

R_P_A_S
13th July 2006, 00:09
Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2006, 07:34 PM
Something's just clicked.

Venezuela's military build-up.

To defend Cuba?
how can one go fight for them?

Si Pinto
13th July 2006, 00:24
Originally posted by R_P_A_S+Jul 12 2006, 09:10 PM--> (R_P_A_S @ Jul 12 2006, 09:10 PM)
[email protected] 12 2006, 07:34 PM
Something's just clicked.

Venezuela's military build-up.

To defend Cuba?
how can one go fight for them? [/b]
Now that's another good idea.

RevMARKSman
13th July 2006, 00:32
Originally posted by Si Pinto+Jul 12 2006, 04:25 PM--> (Si Pinto @ Jul 12 2006, 04:25 PM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2006, 09:10 PM

[email protected] 12 2006, 07:34 PM
Something's just clicked.

Venezuela's military build-up.

To defend Cuba?
how can one go fight for them?
Now that's another good idea. [/b]
Wait, so the plan is we go fight for them, and then give them some constructive criticism on how to abandon reformism, right?

R_P_A_S
13th July 2006, 00:39
Originally posted by MonicaTTmed+Jul 12 2006, 09:33 PM--> (MonicaTTmed @ Jul 12 2006, 09:33 PM)
Originally posted by Si [email protected] 12 2006, 04:25 PM

Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2006, 09:10 PM

[email protected] 12 2006, 07:34 PM
Something's just clicked.

Venezuela's military build-up.

To defend Cuba?
how can one go fight for them?
Now that's another good idea.
Wait, so the plan is we go fight for them, and then give them some constructive criticism on how to abandon reformism, right? [/b]
How could i enlist in their army? or in any opposition to fight U.S. invasion? I don't know about any advice but if the people dont want them there why not help?

Si Pinto
13th July 2006, 00:46
Originally posted by MonicaTTmed+Jul 12 2006, 09:33 PM--> (MonicaTTmed @ Jul 12 2006, 09:33 PM)
Originally posted by Si Pint[email protected] 12 2006, 04:25 PM

Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2006, 09:10 PM

[email protected] 12 2006, 07:34 PM
Something's just clicked.

Venezuela's military build-up.

To defend Cuba?
how can one go fight for them?
Now that's another good idea.
Wait, so the plan is we go fight for them, and then give them some constructive criticism on how to abandon reformism, right? [/b]
If you volunteer we'll let you bring your Green Day album. :P

;)

Comrade-Z
13th July 2006, 01:02
If the U.S. intervenes against Venezuela militarily, the Western European governments will be put in mortal danger by their own populations unless they stop supporting the U.S, I would tend to think. Maybe the U.S. could get the support of the UK, but otherwise, I would say the U.S. would be on its own. And considering the U.S. can't even suppress a deeply divided and poorly equipped insurgency in desert Iraq, I doubt the U.S. would be able to handle invading and occupying Venezuela. And I don't see the Venezeulan people (and the Cuban people, for that matter) as being willing to put up with any more U.S. lackey regimes. The U.S. seems to be losing its grip on the region (at last!)

Matty_UK
13th July 2006, 02:26
Originally posted by R_P_A_S+Jul 12 2006, 09:40 PM--> (R_P_A_S @ Jul 12 2006, 09:40 PM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2006, 09:33 PM

Originally posted by Si [email protected] 12 2006, 04:25 PM

Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2006, 09:10 PM

[email protected] 12 2006, 07:34 PM
Something's just clicked.

Venezuela's military build-up.

To defend Cuba?
how can one go fight for them?
Now that's another good idea.
Wait, so the plan is we go fight for them, and then give them some constructive criticism on how to abandon reformism, right?
How could i enlist in their army? or in any opposition to fight U.S. invasion? I don't know about any advice but if the people dont want them there why not help? [/b]
I can imagine Cuba will inform Chavez of Castro's death in advance of a public announcement, and then Chavez will send a "peacekeeping" force to Cuba to deter the US from intervening. I don't know if the US would have the capacity to do anything about it, so I wouldn't worry too much about joining.

But then, who knows? They might try a full scale invasion against Venezuela's military forces, but I can imagine Chavez would arm Cuban militia's to keep up a guerilla war even after a US victory. Ahah! Didn't he buy a disproportionate amount of rifles for his armys size, or something? It's all falling into place. I don't know if the US would be up for such a drawn out war.

Hit The North
13th July 2006, 02:58
The threat to U.S. global hegemony won't come from Cuba or Venezuala but from China, which is even now challenging the USA in its own 'backyard' with a proposed $10 billion investment in Latin America in the next decade.

CLICK (http://www.politicalaffairs.net/article/articleview/712/1/78/) for details

http://www.politicalaffairs.net/article/ar...eview/712/1/78/ (http://www.politicalaffairs.net/article/articleview/712/1/78/)

Andy Bowden
13th July 2006, 03:00
The threat to U.S. global hegemony won't come from Cuba or Venezuala but from China, which is even now challenging the USA in its own 'backyard' with a proposed $10 billion investment in Latin America in the next decade.

Exactly.

If the US empire falls, it will probably be replaced with a Chinese one.

red team
13th July 2006, 09:15
Exactly.

If the US empire falls, it will probably be replaced with a Chinese one.

Nope. Biggest consumer market in the world is still the U.S. With the dollar not worth the paper it's printed on which country is China going to export to to make their money and pay the wages? With no wages you can expect a rebellion. There's not enough jobs as there is for everybody in China now.

Thousands of Chinese students riot over bleak job prospects (http://www.wsws.org/articles/2006/jul2006/chin-j05.shtml)

Si Pinto
13th July 2006, 12:16
Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2006, 11:27 PM
I can imagine Cuba will inform Chavez of Castro's death in advance of a public announcement, and then Chavez will send a "peacekeeping" force to Cuba to deter the US from intervening. I don't know if the US would have the capacity to do anything about it, so I wouldn't worry too much about joining.

But then, who knows? They might try a full scale invasion against Venezuela's military forces, but I can imagine Chavez would arm Cuban militia's to keep up a guerilla war even after a US victory. Ahah! Didn't he buy a disproportionate amount of rifles for his armys size, or something? It's all falling into place. I don't know if the US would be up for such a drawn out war.
Friend you have a vivid imagination.

I just hope it's vividly correct ;)

Hit The North
13th July 2006, 19:14
Originally posted by red [email protected] 13 2006, 07:16 AM

Exactly.

If the US empire falls, it will probably be replaced with a Chinese one.

Nope. Biggest consumer market in the world is still the U.S. With the dollar not worth the paper it's printed on which country is China going to export to to make their money and pay the wages? With no wages you can expect a rebellion. There's not enough jobs as there is for everybody in China now.

Thousands of Chinese students riot over bleak job prospects (http://www.wsws.org/articles/2006/jul2006/chin-j05.shtml)
That's an interesting report, illustrating the internal contradictions of China's economic development. Nevertheless, China's economy is expanding - and faster than any other.

The real trigger point this century will be over the race for oil, as China - forced (just like any other capitalist society) to accumulate, accumulate, accumulate - intensifies the competition for a resource which is dwindling both in Chinese territory and globally.

In a sense, the invasion of Iraq, although a continuation of the last hundred years of U.S. foreign poilicy, is also the first move in the cold war over oil. The U.S. has used the occupation of Iraq to install 14 permanent military bases, signalling it's intent to enforce its control in the region even if it requires mass murder. If one looks at the concentration of U.S. overseas military bases, oil will be found nearby. It's just like the Romans. Their empire was dependent on gold and they would commit genocide in order to control it. The American empire is run on black gold and the same imperialist imperative abides.

All this bombing and bluster is a big risk for the U.S. as it severely weakens its diplomatic integrity and leaves it vulnerable to the more pursuasive Chinese policy of non-interference. As examplar, China's growing relationship with Latin America is far healthier than the USA's, which has historically been one of helping to crush progress in the region.

In terms of the U.S. having the largest consumer market in the world, that isn't likely to change overnight. However, empires depend upon what they produce, not what they consume. The Chinese State's control over labour will ensure that it operates at a higher level of profitability than the United States for the forseeable future. Moreover, the more it expands, the more it will draw greater numbers of its massive population into manufacture and, logically, also swell its own consumer markets.

Meanwhile, American consumers are likely to feel the pinch as the U.S. economy is not only based on oil, it's based on cheap oil. And as anyone knows, the more competition there is for a decreasing stock of a particular commodity, the higher the exchange value of the commodity becomes.

How long the U.S. manages to hold on to its global domination will depend largely on two factors:

1. How effective the threat of violence is in securing artificially cheap oil; and

2. How long it can maintain the dollar as the global oil currency - ensuring a virtual cartel as every transaction of oil for dollars benefits the American economy.

If Chavez had had his way when Venezuala were chairing the 2000 OPEC meeting, every OPEC nation would have transfered to Euros, sending an ice-age chill through the American economy. This is a nightmare scenario for the American ruling class. As evidence, their response to Iraq's conversion to dealing in the Euro, was to lie about weapons of mass destruction and launch a murderous invasion. I believe Iraqi oil is now trading in dollars.

Incidentally, both North Korea and Iran followed, switching to the Euro and, alongside Iraq became the 'axis of evil'. Obviously because in the eyes of the American ruling class, the ultimate evil is the demise of American capital.

Si Pinto
13th July 2006, 19:42
Interesting write-up Citizen Z.

As well as the things you've mentioned, I think two important factors have to considered, when discussing the future of the US economy/world economy and there dependency on oil revenues.

1 - Russia

2 - Antarctica

Russia has by far the biggest oil reserves of any industrialised nation and Putin knows it.

How this thing develops is dependent on who 'sweetens' the Russians most effectively.

At this moment in time, the US is trying to control oil prices buy keeping the 'political' temperature hot in the middle east, nothing keeps the price of oil higher than fears over it's supply and US created/supported tensions in the middle east are aimed at doing exactly that, creating the fear in the oil dependent marketplace that supplies are in danger.

Russia however has oil coming out of it's ears (metaphorically) and has increasingly been entering the market since the fall of the USSR.

Now, as time goes on, it will be the Russians who therefore have more and more control over the oil prices, which explains the west's 'friendliness' towards a country they used to despise.

Now Russia can be (and is being) very clever here, because they are playing the west and China off against each other, knowing that Russia can only gain by the outcome.

How Antarctica falls into this is more difficult to pin down, no-one is quite sure how much resources are there, but they do know it's a lot.

Which is why there is such a scramble on to be the major 'exploitee' of those resources.

Destroying the last great wilderness on Earth while they are at it. :angry:

Karl Marx's Camel
13th July 2006, 21:11
It's just like the Romans. Their empire was dependent on gold and they would commit genocide in order to control it.

Yeah.

If I recall correctly, 3/4 of Rome's income came from overseas, by plundering, slavery, etc. And again, if I recall correctly, they needed over new 200,000 slaves each year just to sustain the slave numbers. They got money and slaves by conquering. The Roman empire faced significant problems when there was little valuable to invade in their near areas.

They got money from taking over one place, and then they needed to invade another, and another, and another...

I think it was like this: The strongest civilian men captured were used on big projects, the rest of common men to slavery, and woman and children raped and killed...

Axel1917
14th July 2006, 00:58
Originally posted by red [email protected] 13 2006, 06:16 AM

Exactly.

If the US empire falls, it will probably be replaced with a Chinese one.

Nope. Biggest consumer market in the world is still the U.S. With the dollar not worth the paper it's printed on which country is China going to export to to make their money and pay the wages? With no wages you can expect a rebellion. There's not enough jobs as there is for everybody in China now.

Thousands of Chinese students riot over bleak job prospects (http://www.wsws.org/articles/2006/jul2006/chin-j05.shtml)
I tend to agree with this in a good extent. We have to remember that China is largely dependent on US consumers. When the next big slump hits, US consumers will be spending less, and consequently, the Chinese capitalists will be making less money. We also have the fact that without the planned economy, China is going to be open to all kinds of problems of capitalism: overprouduciton (I once heard that they produced 60 million unused cell phones), slumps, privitization decreasing the standard of living, etc. I have not looked too far into this, but I have heard that work-related disputes have increased over there due to the planned economy not being around anymore.

US imperialism is failing miserably. It is struggling to keep its head above the water. Iraq is failing for them, and they will not be able to win. Afghanistan is also failing. Their troops are spread too thinly, and this has prevented them from directly invading Venezuela at the moment. The coup against Chavez has failed, and voter fraud is being used to prevent Orbador from becoming president in Mexico (he is a reformist gangster, but the Mexican Bourgeoisie are afraid of the people behind him, and reformists can be pressed to go farther than they intend to under certain circumstances.).

The decisive battle for world socialism will be fought in the USA. Victory over here will mean the liberation of the whole world. There is high importance on victory over here. Either the US will go to socialism, or it will go to barbarism, unleashing a Bonapartist regime.

red team
14th July 2006, 05:10
I think if the US dissovles into barbarism it might resemble a "society" out of something like: Snow Crash (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_Crash)

...but less high-tech and more violent.