Ms-13

[Anti-Red]

I know that MS-13 is a bad gang, and so do most Americans. Let me guess though, you guys don't? I'm guessing you guys think that these people are "oppressed" which is why they start gangs, and if you are against them you are a "racist." I bet you guys would not even put them in jail or deport them. As usual, I am guessing you think these guys have a right to rape, kill, and plunder, and that we should do nothing about them. Am I right?

[bcbm]

Partially. Oppressed people (usually ones living in areas where stable work doesn't exist) generally form gangs for largely the same reasons those with means form corporations: to make money. It can be a capitalist means of social organization, although revolutionary anti-capitalist gangs have existed as well. In any case, like their friends in the corporate world they often "rape, kill, and plunder," although it is the corporations that are more likely to have "nothing [done] about them."

[Anti-Red]

You guys really are a bunch of fuckers, aren't you?

[RevMARKSman]

Originally posted by Anti-[email protected] 12 2006, 02:13 PM
You guys really are a bunch of fuckers, aren't you?
If you define "fuckers" as "those who do not tolerate ad hominem and useless posts," then, yes.

[Matty_UK]

Originally posted by Anti-[email protected] 12 2006, 07:13 PM
You guys really are a bunch of fuckers, aren't you?
Read his post carefully. He's saying a gang is a working class form of capitalism-a gang is also only possible under capitalism.

Think. If we oppose capitalism we oppose gangs. And if you support capitalism you support gangs, whether you mean to or not.

[Lord Testicles]

Originally posted by Anti-[email protected] 12 2006, 08:13 PM
You guys really are a bunch of fuckers, aren't you?
I think you are running out of arguments.

[ack]

MS-13 is pointless, as are all gangs. They promote needless violence and killing, and the exploitation of women through prostitution, to name a few things.


Read his post carefully. He's saying a gang is a working class form of capitalism-a gang is also only possible under capitalism.

I disagree with that, I think gangs are possible under any circumstance. Where ever a group of people bully other people through threats and violence, there is a gang.

[KC]

Let me guess though, you guys don't?

Of course we do.


I'm guessing you guys think that these people are "oppressed" which is why they start gangs

Actually, that's exactly why. Why do you think there's so much extremism in the Middle East?


and if you are against them you are a "racist."

Well, that depends. If you're against them because of their race then that's racist. Being against gangs isn't wrong or bad, though. Gangs are just as bad as radical islamist groups, or christian fascist groups, or other groups that are similar that you could think of.


I bet you guys would not even put them in jail or deport them.

Actually, we would target the real problem, which is the social conditions of society that give rise to gangs. You know, we'd solve the problem instead of just containing it.


As usual, I am guessing you think these guys have a right to rape, kill, and plunder, and that we should do nothing about them. Am I right?

You're a knucklehead.



I disagree with that, I think gangs are possible under any circumstance. Where ever a group of people bully other people through threats and violence, there is a gang.


Which is only possible in a class society.

[bcbm]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2006, 01:53 PM
MS-13 is pointless, as are all gangs. They promote needless violence and killing
Needless violence and killing? It may be needless, but it certainly doesn't occur without reason. Gangs kill for the same reason corporations file lawsuits, get copyrights, etc: to protect their business. If a gang is dealing in drugs (like MS-13), they have no legal claim to a certain area, so they have to enforce their claim on that area and it's business by other means: violence and killing.


and the exploitation of women through prostitution, to name a few things.

Indeed. Many corporations engage in the exploitation of women as well, although usually as models or factory wage-slaves. Again, its all to make money, which is what I stated earlier.


I disagree with that, I think gangs are possible under any circumstance. Where ever a group of people bully other people through threats and violence, there is a gang.

I never said gangs are only possible under capitalism, merely that they are primarily a form of capitalist organization for the making of profit in response to social conditions keeping them out of other money-making ventures. Other forms of "gangs" can exist, but this is the most common.

[R_P_A_S]

Originally posted by Anti-[email protected] 12 2006, 01:52 PM
I know that MS-13 is a bad gang, and so do most Americans. Let me guess though, you guys don't? I'm guessing you guys think that these people are "oppressed" which is why they start gangs, and if you are against them you are a "racist." I bet you guys would not even put them in jail or deport them. As usual, I am guessing you think these guys have a right to rape, kill, and plunder, and that we should do nothing about them. Am I right?
I for one, fortunate to have grown up with both parents in a functional home. where there was love, and support for all of us. My father worked and so did my mother. they kept us in school and did all the right things parents should do at an early age to keep us in line and in check. We moved twice from areas in Mexico that were becoming dangerous and my mother sent us to different schools on the "nice part of town" So we wouldn't be around the bad influences. It worked!

So before you go around just calling people gang members, pest to society or anything like that. STOP and think for a second where most of them had to grow up. Stop and thinking how most of them never had any male role models, or female. STOP and think that the neighborhoods they had to grow up in, you wouldn't last a day in.

Is this an excuse? well no not really. anyone can get out of there. with the willingness and desire. BUT lots of the desire and hope that you are supposed to build on as a kid is never there. So maybe just one out of 20 gets out and leaves.

I don't like it when people judge gang members. trust me they are the least of the problem. Im not saying is ok to kill and rape. But sometimes like I said you gotta look at the entire problem from an other angle. not just be quick to judge.

[Matty_UK]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2006, 09:27 PM
I don't like it when people judge gang members. trust me they are the least of the problem. Im not saying is ok to kill and rape. But sometimes like I said you gotta look at the entire problem from an other angle. not just be quick to judge.
Ironic that atheist commies are giving a supposed "Christian" a lesson on one of the most important and ignored tenets of Christianity-judge not lest ye be judged. Talk about hypocracy....

[R_P_A_S]

Originally posted by Matty_UK+Jul 12 2006, 10:17 PM--> (Matty_UK @ Jul 12 2006, 10:17 PM)
[email protected] 12 2006, 09:27 PM
I don't like it when people judge gang members. trust me they are the least of the problem. Im not saying is ok to kill and rape. But sometimes like I said you gotta look at the entire problem from an other angle. not just be quick to judge.
Ironic that atheist commies are giving a supposed "Christian" a lesson on one of the most important and ignored tenets of Christianity-judge not lest ye be judged. Talk about hypocracy.... [/b]
first of all Im not a communist. second of all have you ever read anywhere that I've denounced any religion?

EXACTLY!

now back to more important people and interesting subjects.

[Matty_UK]

Originally posted by R_P_A_S+Jul 12 2006, 10:19 PM--> (R_P_A_S @ Jul 12 2006, 10:19 PM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2006, 10:17 PM

[email protected] 12 2006, 09:27 PM
I don't like it when people judge gang members. trust me they are the least of the problem. Im not saying is ok to kill and rape. But sometimes like I said you gotta look at the entire problem from an other angle. not just be quick to judge.
Ironic that atheist commies are giving a supposed "Christian" a lesson on one of the most important and ignored tenets of Christianity-judge not lest ye be judged. Talk about hypocracy....
first of all Im not a communist. second of all have you ever read anywhere that I've denounced any religion?

EXACTLY!

now back to more important people and interesting subjects. [/b]
Uhm I wasn't criticising you, by the way.

What are you, incidentally?

[ack]

Originally posted by black banner black [email protected] 12 2006, 05:21 PM

and the exploitation of women through prostitution, to name a few things.

Indeed. Many corporations engage in the exploitation of women as well, although usually as models or factory wage-slaves. Again, its all to make money, which is what I stated earlier.


I disagree with that, I think gangs are possible under any circumstance. Where ever a group of people bully other people through threats and violence, there is a gang.

I never said gangs are only possible under capitalism, merely that they are primarily a form of capitalist organization for the making of profit in response to social conditions keeping them out of other money-making ventures. Other forms of "gangs" can exist, but this is the most common.
Yeah, definitely. Look at some of the advertising of companies like Abercrombie and Fitch. I've seen ads that "advertise" a pair of sunglasses. The woman wearing these sun glasses is bound and gagged. What is this truly advertising? SEX. Sex sells. Companies know it, and they are very good at using it.

[Anti-Red]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2006, 09:27 PM
So before you go around just calling people gang members, pest to society or anything like that. STOP and think for a second where most of them had to grow up. Stop and thinking how most of them never had any male role models, or female. STOP and think that the neighborhoods they had to grow up in, you wouldn't last a day in.
Bad? Yes. But it is possible to rise above circumstances. I suppose that is one thing about leftists, they never believe a person can rise above their birth.

[R_P_A_S]

Originally posted by Anti-Red+Jul 13 2006, 01:29 AM--> (Anti-Red @ Jul 13 2006, 01:29 AM)
[email protected] 12 2006, 09:27 PM
So before you go around just calling people gang members, pest to society or anything like that. STOP and think for a second where most of them had to grow up. Stop and thinking how most of them never had any male role models, or female. STOP and think that the neighborhoods they had to grow up in, you wouldn't last a day in.
Bad? Yes. But it is possible to rise above circumstances. I suppose that is one thing about leftists, they never believe a person can rise above their birth. [/b]
never said that. I personaly know many gangmembers and I work with many. some are friends some i just do business with and they are people to. they have families and they have concerns. I also know that they dont want this life. is not like they love it. sometimes is all they got and all they known because their parents were gang members too. its a cycle that is hard to get out of. unless you know what is like then you have no real opinion or shouldnt be talking shit about them.

I know some that are born into it and manage to get out. but not everyones life is the same. everyone is under diferent circumstances.

[Publius]

Read his post carefully. He's saying a gang is a working class form of capitalism-a gang is also only possible under capitalism.

Why?



Think. If we oppose capitalism we oppose gangs. And if you support capitalism you support gangs, whether you mean to or not.

Flawless logic.

:lol:

[Anti-Red]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2006, 01:42 AM
I also know that they dont want this life. is not like they love it.
Sadly in this day and age it is the only way people can make money, selling drugs or something, and personally I think drugs should be legal. I just don't think killing or hurting innocent people is right.

[R_P_A_S]

Originally posted by Anti-Red+Jul 13 2006, 02:28 AM--> (Anti-Red @ Jul 13 2006, 02:28 AM)
[email protected] 13 2006, 01:42 AM
I also know that they dont want this life. is not like they love it.
Sadly in this day and age it is the only way people can make money, selling drugs or something, and personally I think drugs should be legal. I just don't think killing or hurting innocent people is right. [/b]
I agree. most gang members rarely hurt any innocent people. YES fuck ups happen when they try to kill each other. innocent people get hurt unfortunaly. But atleast here in L.A. gang bangers dont go around regular neighborhoods picking and hurting on people.

[theraven]

Originally posted by R_P_A_S+Jul 13 2006, 04:12 AM--> (R_P_A_S @ Jul 13 2006, 04:12 AM)
Originally posted by Anti-[email protected] 13 2006, 02:28 AM

[email protected] 13 2006, 01:42 AM
I also know that they dont want this life. is not like they love it.
Sadly in this day and age it is the only way people can make money, selling drugs or something, and personally I think drugs should be legal. I just don't think killing or hurting innocent people is right.
I agree. most gang members rarely hurt any innocent people. YES fuck ups happen when they try to kill each other. innocent people get hurt unfortunaly. But atleast here in L.A. gang bangers dont go around regular neighborhoods picking and hurting on people. [/b]
yea because those drivebys sure are harmless :rolleyes:

[Janus]

yea because those drivebys sure are harmless
I do not support gangs yet drive-bys are generally acts of revenge conducted against other gang members. But every once in a while, someone innoncent does get hurt and the cycle of needless violence continues.

[bcbm]

Bad? Yes. But it is possible to rise above circumstances. I suppose that is one thing about leftists, they never believe a person can rise above their birth.

Sure we do, we just recognize that, statistically speaking, people coming from certain situations will be more likely to end up in other situations. Its basic sociology.

And I take from you lack of response to my other post, you agree with what I've said?

[R_P_A_S]

Originally posted by theraven+Jul 13 2006, 04:24 AM--> (theraven @ Jul 13 2006, 04:24 AM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2006, 04:12 AM

Originally posted by Anti-[email protected] 13 2006, 02:28 AM

[email protected] 13 2006, 01:42 AM
I also know that they dont want this life. is not like they love it.
Sadly in this day and age it is the only way people can make money, selling drugs or something, and personally I think drugs should be legal. I just don't think killing or hurting innocent people is right.
I agree. most gang members rarely hurt any innocent people. YES fuck ups happen when they try to kill each other. innocent people get hurt unfortunaly. But atleast here in L.A. gang bangers dont go around regular neighborhoods picking and hurting on people.
yea because those drivebys sure are harmless :rolleyes: [/b]
what the fuck. didnt you read what I just typed? that shit happens. that fuck ups happen. that applies to drive by's that hit innocent people. Im not trying to defend them. Im just saying is not easy to just point the fucking finger and blame them for everything. is not like the decided one day to wake up and kill and steal.

[Matty_UK]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2006, 02:11 AM


Read his post carefully. He's saying a gang is a working class form of capitalism-a gang is also only possible under capitalism.

Why?



Think. If we oppose capitalism we oppose gangs. And if you support capitalism you support gangs, whether you mean to or not.

Flawless logic.

:lol:
There are different types of gangs; a lot of them aim to make money through illegal activities (although their methods are not much different to that of legit businesses) which is in itself capitalist, and you can't make money that way under communism.

And gangs always grow out of repressed and deprived backgrounds, and to be repressed and deprived requires a hierarchy. Attempting to just kill or arrest everyone in a gang is just violently trying to repress inevitable consequences of capitalism.

[Anti-Red]

Still, why is it SO hard for you guys to want to deport a CRIMINAL.

[Janus]

Deportations can be done for the most basic offenses such as theft. Besides, the only deportation thing is just shipping problems away from you rather than actually trying to deal with them.

[R_P_A_S]

Originally posted by Anti-[email protected] 13 2006, 03:17 PM
Still, why is it SO hard for you guys to want to deport a CRIMINAL.
what do you mean YOU GUYS? If a person is in america illegaly and is a criminal. he is not doing anything to be a productive member of society. he's just here causing problems and contributing to crime then yes deport his ass.

[R_P_A_S]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2006, 06:26 PM
Deportations can be done for the most basic offenses such as theft. Besides, the only deportation thing is just shipping problems away from you rather than actually trying to deal with them.
why should other countries deal with offenders from other countries? there should be a deportation. perhaps have some long arm statues among countries so that person can be reform and serve time for that they did in an other country IN their home country.

[Janus]

why should other countries deal with offenders from other countries?
From what I hear, people can get deported from committing very basic misdemeanors.

Deporting people is just trying to get away from the main issue. People are coming here mainly because of economic or political problems in their home countries. When you deport them, they may just as well come back.

[R_P_A_S]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2006, 07:36 PM

why should other countries deal with offenders from other countries?
From what I hear, people can get deported from committing very basic misdemeanors.

Deporting people is just trying to get away from the main issue. People are coming here mainly because of economic or political problems in their home countries. When you deport them, they may just as well come back.
i unfortunaly know mexicans that come here just to be complete fuck ups. they give mexicans who come here to work a really bad name. It's embarassing. But I can safely tell you that is 1 out of 10 who come here and get caught up with crime and jail.

[Anti-Red]

You are right that MOST Mexicans do come here to work and are very honorable, but there is a good 10-20% that is here either to run around and pillage our rich nation or to just sit there on welfare without work. Do I think we need to immediately deport EVERY illegal immigrant, no I support the middle way bill actually and I am not like Tom Tancredo who I think is well, racist. Still, that does not mean I think we should just let illegal immigration go.

[R_P_A_S]

Originally posted by Anti-[email protected] 15 2006, 03:16 AM
You are right that MOST Mexicans do come here to work and are very honorable, but there is a good 10-20% that is here either to run around and pillage our rich nation or to just sit there on welfare without work. Do I think we need to immediately deport EVERY illegal immigrant, no I support the middle way bill actually and I am not like Tom Tancredo who I think is well, racist. Still, that does not mean I think we should just let illegal immigration go.
I'm yet to meet a "mexican illegal" who is on wel-fare. seriously. and I know a grip lol. we rather be out side home depot trying to work. than to get in line outside social service.

I believe lots of Americans gets mexicans from mexico confused with the mexican-americans who have been here for centuries who most likely are the ones on wel-fare.

I live in southern california and I can count with ONE hand the years I've lived here the latinos I've seen on the streets beggin for money.

[PRC-UTE]

Originally posted by Anti-[email protected] 12 2006, 01:52 PM
I know that MS-13 is a bad gang, and so do most Americans. Let me guess though, you guys don't? I'm guessing you guys think that these people are "oppressed" which is why they start gangs, and if you are against them you are a "racist." I bet you guys would not even put them in jail or deport them. As usual, I am guessing you think these guys have a right to rape, kill, and plunder, and that we should do nothing about them. Am I right?
yeah, because commies are known for being tolerent of violent anti-social crime. :rolleyes:

From the Communist Manifesto:


The "dangerous class", the social scum, that passively rotting mass thrown off by the lowest layers of the old society, may, here and there, be swept into the movement by a proletarian revolution; its conditions of life, however, prepare it far more for the part of a bribed tool of reactionary intrigue.


ms13 or any other gang that target working class people should be put against a wall.

[Loknar]

The social situtations I should say allow gangs to prosper. THey recruit children at an early age to join then then they enter a life of crime and become a waste on society. Ms-13 imports drugs and sells them on the streets (capitalism?) this isnt a gang that is 'for the people'. They are an underground group of crminals.


Dont pretend these people have honor.


Honestly, sometimes then I see these bad things happen, I think to me self Id rather have common men in a militia deal with it in a sort of tribal counsel. Then wed line em up against a wall...

I may be a cappy but I am all for shooting any greedy or corrupt people who commit crimes against common people. I dont give a damn if it is moral or not.