Minutemen Attacked! See The Video!

[MrWhiteMan]

MINUTEMEN ATTACKED! SEE THE VIDEO!
Posted By Rick
July 10th, 2006

RICK ROBERTS INVESTIGATES… The MINUTEMEN ARE BEING ATTACKED PHYSICALLY BY ILLEGAL ALIENS—AND WE HAVE THE VIDEO.

The Minutemen in San Diego have been filming drop-off points where illegals are dropped off and then picked up.

And you think that would be okay…except the illegals and those who shuttle them back and forth are getting extremely upset…SO MUCH SO THAT THEY ARE ATTACKING THE MINUTEMEN…PHYSICALLY.

THEY’VE been physically attacked 6 times IN THE LAST 8 DAYS.

Click here to see the first part of the video taken by Minuteman Clint Hamilton where he catches 18 illegal alien day workers streaming out a van in Rancho Bernardo where they loiter and wait for work.

Click here to see Clint get attacked by the driver of the van as 20 or so more illegals start going toward him yelling!

Clint Hamilton was hit 3 times. HE ALSO HAS HAD KNIFE SHOWN TO HIM FOR INTIMIDATION PURPOSES! Charges have been filed and we will follow this to see if justice is served.

Despite being beat up by illegal alien activists the Minutemen say they are having successes in shutting down some of these illegal day labor sites…especially in Ramona.

Where is the local media on this? What if illegals were being beaten up? Bet that would be front page news. Regardless…you can always count on The Rick Roberts Show to bring it to you first.

http://www.760kfmb.com/rick_blog/

[Black Dagger]

Cool.

I hope this continues, sucks that none of em have been killed yet :(

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Yeah, hopefully that's coming real soon though.

[Entrails Konfetti]

They're so stupid they don't allow troops who are more equiped (yet still illequiped) to deal with these situtations.

Ofcourse they get their asses kicked, whaddya expect.

Well we should replace all troops with Minuetmen, that way they are easily penetrated and USA will have to face directly what it is doing to Mexico with its FTAs.

[Kia]

Horray! I hope the immigrants cause enough problems for the biggot minutemen that they have to shut down their operations. Mexican and other south American Immigrants should have the right to be able to enter the USA and pursue jobs and a better living standard. The US should not stop them from coming in, but create multiple laws and programs to help immigrants live lawfully in the USA.

[piet11111]

that was it ?

im dissapointed with the video i was hoping for some serious fighting instead of 1 simple punch.

[Janus]

This is great, these racists got what they deserved. However, the bad part is that if more incidents like this happen, the state or the federal government may have to move more troops to the border so this incident is actually good for the Minutemen.

[Brekisonphilous]

that video sucked.

[Delta]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2006, 10:30 AM
that was it ?

im dissapointed with the video i was hoping for some serious fighting instead of 1 simple punch.
I know, I was hoping to see some biting and hair pulling myself :D

[Janus]

There have been many incidents where illegal immigrants have robbed or harmed people actually living on the border but there are just as man incidents of inhabitants harming them as well.

The border is a pretty dangerous place now that gangs and organized crime have gotten involved.

[RebeldePorLaPAZ]

i dont know who was "attacked". the man or the camera.

I love how they change everything around to make it seem like something big.


SO MUCH SO THAT THEY ARE ATTACKING THE MINUTEMEN…PHYSICALLY.

That line right there in itself makes it sound like undocumented or just that individual was going after looking for minutemen.

Something needs to be done about those racists, on the real they need to be shut down.



--Paz

[Red Heretic]

Finally!

EDIT: Oh... I watched video. That was the most pathetic thing ever.

[Red Heretic]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2006, 06:30 PM
that was it ?

im dissapointed with the video i was hoping for some serious fighting instead of 1 simple punch.
It wasn't even a punch dude... he's just trying to push away that guys camera.

[bcbm]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2006, 04:26 PM
The border is a pretty dangerous place now that gangs and organized crime have gotten involved.
Now? Border culture since 1850 hasbeen full of bandits, outlaws and other ne'er-do-wells striking back at the Anglo occupiers.

[Anti-Red]

Originally posted by Black [email protected] 11 2006, 05:44 PM
Cool.

I hope this continues, sucks that none of em have been killed yet :(
You jackass. I can't believe what I am hearing! How do you sit there and condone the fact that we have about 5% of our population in illegal immigrants and growing! I thought most of you guys ideas were stupid, but this tops them all! How do you so "pro-working class" people condone the facts that illegal immigrants take down our wages? Let me ask you this, and I WANT YOU TO ANSWER DIRECTLY. I don't want you to duck the QUESTION at all. That means what I am saying is not THAT they are proven to take down our wages, but if the WERE PROVEN. Here it is...

If illegal immigrants were proven to be taking down the wages of the middle class, would you still support their right to come here without documents and have open borders?

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by Anti-[email protected] 12 2006, 01:30 PM
If illegal immigrants were proven to be taking down the wages of the middle class, would you still support their right to come here without documents and have open borders?
Yes. Yes I would.

[Anti-Red]

Originally posted by Jazzratt+Jul 12 2006, 01:46 PM--> (Jazzratt @ Jul 12 2006, 01:46 PM)
Anti-[email protected] 12 2006, 01:30 PM
If illegal immigrants were proven to be taking down the wages of the middle class, would you still support their right to come here without documents and have open borders?
Yes. Yes I would. [/b]
See, you guys don't give a DAMN about the economy. If you had to send us back to the stone age just for your precious illegals right to come start their gangs, crap on our front lawns, and steal our jobs, you would. YOU don't care about the working class. You care more about people from Turd World countries than your own stinking countrymen.

[Lord Testicles]

Originally posted by Anti-[email protected] 12 2006, 02:48 PM
You care more about people from Turd World countries than your own stinking countrymen.
Countries mean nothing!

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by Anti-Red+Jul 12 2006, 01:48 PM--> (Anti-Red @ Jul 12 2006, 01:48 PM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2006, 01:46 PM

Anti-[email protected] 12 2006, 01:30 PM
If illegal immigrants were proven to be taking down the wages of the middle class, would you still support their right to come here without documents and have open borders?
Yes. Yes I would.
See, you guys don't give a DAMN about the economy. [/b]
We give a damn about people. Fuck your economy.


If you had to send us back to the stone age just for your precious illegals right to come start their gangs, crap on our front lawns, and steal our jobs, you would.OMGZ PEOPLE ARE COMING TO MY COUNTRY AND GETTING JOBS! Cry me a fucking river.


YOU don&#39;t care about the working class. You care more about people from Turd World countries than your own stinking countrymen. I care about the working class in a more global sense than "them dayam aylegal ayleenz ahr comin&#39; hur an&#39; stealin&#39; our jabs, rapin&#39; our women an&#39; eatin&#39; mhy wadermelons (thanks for that marmot ;) )" So you can fuck off. "Turd World" I see what you did there <_< Shows your compassion and caring really. Just fuck off. And die. Or die and fuck off, as long as you do both.

[Si Pinto]

Originally posted by Anti&#045;[email protected] 12 2006, 01:30 PM
If illegal immigrants were proven to be taking down the wages of the middle class, would you still support their right to come here without documents and have open borders?
Yes.

Most of them come from countries (including ex Eastern Bloc ones) stripped bare by capitalist nations, of course they&#39;ll want to go to the western (or western style) countries.

and your capitalist bosses LOVE IT&#33;&#33;&#33;

Your question should be "why do capitalists give jobs to the immigrants rather than citizens of that country".

Because they&#39;re cheaper which means MORE PROFIT FOR YOUR BELOVED CAPPIES&#33;&#33;&#33; and this drives down wages in immigrant areas.

[LSD]

If illegal immigrants were proven to be taking down the wages of the middle class, would you still support their right to come here without documents and have open borders?

That question misses the point.

"We" don&#39;t determine government policy, "we" don&#39;t have a say in immigration law. All that "we" can determine is what "we" do.

Accordingly, the issue of supporting immigrants is not so much about their "rights" in relation to the bourgeois state, as it is in relation to the bourgeoisie itself. That is, we defend the rights of "illegal immigrants" because they are class allies against the rulling class.

It doesn&#39;t matter whether they are "paying taxes", or "working for less", they are nonetheless working class and as such they are our comrades. The capitalists may like to exploit immigration as an excuse for lowering wages, but we all know that the bosses will take any opportunity to screw us over.

"Illegals" aren&#39;t cutting wages, the capitalists are.

Besides, whether starving third worlders are in the north or the south, they&#39;re historical lack of coherent class unity will hurt the international working class. Studies have shown that one of the biggest depressors on working class income is the threat of job migration. The effect of individuals crossing borders cannot even be compared to the devastating effect of capital movement.

The bosses are going to try and undercut the workers no matter what; if that means hiring Mexicans in Mexico, that&#39;s what they&#39;ll do, if it means hiring Mexicans in California, that&#39;s what they&#39;ll do too.

All that "we" can do is fight back with any and all the allies we can get. Because of their exploitation and oppression, "illegal aliens" make perfect allies in that struggle.

As communists, we don&#39;t care about some mythical "middle class", we care about the flesh and blood working class&#33;

[Si Pinto]

Originally posted by Anti&#045;[email protected] 12 2006, 01:48 PM
See, you guys don&#39;t give a DAMN about the economy. If you had to send us back to the stone age just for your precious illegals right to come start their gangs, crap on our front lawns, and steal our jobs, you would. YOU don&#39;t care about the working class. You care more about people from Turd World countries than your own stinking countrymen.
You are a racist you sick cappie bastard, now as Jazzratt so eloquently put it....FUCK OFF&#33;&#33;&#33;

[black magick hustla]

Originally posted by Anti&#045;Red+Jul 12 2006, 01:30 PM--> (Anti&#045;Red &#064; Jul 12 2006, 01:30 PM)
Black [email protected] 11 2006, 05:44 PM
Cool.

I hope this continues, sucks that none of em have been killed yet :(
You jackass. I can&#39;t believe what I am hearing&#33; How do you sit there and condone the fact that we have about 5% of our population in illegal immigrants and growing&#33; I thought most of you guys ideas were stupid, but this tops them all&#33; How do you so "pro-working class" people condone the facts that illegal immigrants take down our wages? Let me ask you this, and I WANT YOU TO ANSWER DIRECTLY. I don&#39;t want you to duck the QUESTION at all. That means what I am saying is not THAT they are proven to take down our wages, but if the WERE PROVEN. Here it is...

If illegal immigrants were proven to be taking down the wages of the middle class, would you still support their right to come here without documents and have open borders? [/b]
I will say this again.

Racist fuckfaces that use LOL ILLEGAl IMMIGRANTS ARE HURTFUL FOR ECONOMY as an argument don&#39;t have a fucking clue about America&#39;s economy.

[bcbm]

Anti-Red, if we can prove that it is capitalist "free trade" and other agreements like NAFTA, FTAA and the IMF/WB that are ruining third world economies and forcing US jobs overseas, and third world immigrants into the US, will you SHUT THE FUCK UP?

:rolleyes:

[theraven]

lol why are you guys cheering for this? right now people see illegals as basicly good people who aren&#39;t out to harm anyone, and while they have negative effects it not out of malice. thus the idea of say arming the minutemen is laughed at. now lets say this (or something more dramtic then this) happens. maybe a minutemen gets badly hurt by a group of illegals. next thing you know they are handing out assualt rifles on the broder and mexicans crossing it are shot on sight.

anyway and remember the fate of those "outlaws and bandits who harrased the anglo opprosser" as someon said. they usually ended up with bullets in their brains.

and how ar eyou going to prove that black?

[bcbm]

next thing you know they are handing out assualt rifles on the broder and mexicans crossing it are shot on sight.

Actually, the MM on the border do carry weapons and immigrants making the crossing have been shot (although the MM claims it wasn&#39;t by anyone affiliated with them. Right.).


anyway and remember the fate of those "outlaws and bandits who harrased the anglo opprosser" as someon said. they usually ended up with bullets in their brains.

Yup. I was just refuting the idea of a "dangerous border" as something new. Colonial borderlands are always dangerous.


and how ar eyou going to prove that black?

Perhaps through the use of one of the thousands of studies, books, newspaper articles and other sources that exist on the subject? :rolleyes:

[theraven]

Actually, the MM on the border do carry weapons and immigrants making the crossing have been shot (although the MM claims it wasn&#39;t by anyone affiliated with them. Right.).

yea..the MM does not allow people to carry guns...


Yup. I was just refuting the idea of a "dangerous border" as something new. Colonial borderlands are always dangerous.

what colonial border?


Yup. I was just refuting the idea of a "dangerous border" as something new. Colonial borderlands are always dangerous.

because hte influx of capital, jobs and cheaper products is somehow bad?

[Goatse]

Originally posted by Anti&#045;Red+Jul 12 2006, 01:48 PM--> (Anti-Red @ Jul 12 2006, 01:48 PM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2006, 01:46 PM

Anti&#045;[email protected] 12 2006, 01:30 PM
If illegal immigrants were proven to be taking down the wages of the middle class, would you still support their right to come here without documents and have open borders?
Yes. Yes I would.
See, you guys don&#39;t give a DAMN about the economy. If you had to send us back to the stone age just for your precious illegals right to come start their gangs, crap on our front lawns, and steal our jobs, you would. YOU don&#39;t care about the working class. You care more about people from Turd World countries than your own stinking countrymen. [/b]
You&#39;re going to be banned very soon, I hope, you sick fucking racist.

I hope you get your job stolen by someone who craps on your lawn from a "turd world" country.

[theraven]

Originally posted by ScottishPinko+Jul 12 2006, 02:54 PM--> (ScottishPinko @ Jul 12 2006, 02:54 PM)
Originally posted by Anti&#045;[email protected] 12 2006, 01:48 PM

Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2006, 01:46 PM

Anti&#045;[email protected] 12 2006, 01:30 PM
If illegal immigrants were proven to be taking down the wages of the middle class, would you still support their right to come here without documents and have open borders?
Yes. Yes I would.
See, you guys don&#39;t give a DAMN about the economy. If you had to send us back to the stone age just for your precious illegals right to come start their gangs, crap on our front lawns, and steal our jobs, you would. YOU don&#39;t care about the working class. You care more about people from Turd World countries than your own stinking countrymen.
You&#39;re going to be banned very soon, I hope, you sick fucking racist.

I hope you get your job stolen by someone who craps on your lawn from a "turd world" country. [/b]
how is he being racist? classist perhaps...but not racist.

[Black Dagger]

Well its obvious the &#39;illegals&#39; he is referring to are not white western european &#39;overstayers&#39; , but Latina/Latino peoples from Mexico, Central/South America - he&#39;s just mumbling racist stereotypes - complaining about how &#39;they&#39; bring &#39;gangs&#39;, shit on people&#39;s lawns (huh?), &#39;steal our jobs&#39; etc. - in this context, &#39;they&#39; is a clearly racialised term, and it&#39;s being used in an entirely derogatory fashion.

I don&#39;t hear him complaining about all those fucking (illegal) whites who fly into the country and overstay their visas and who work illegally, or all those fucking whites who migrate to the US to steal the technical/skilled jobs of US college graduates - then again, such people are (more often than not) his &#39;white brothers and sisters&#39;.

[theraven]

Well its obvious the &#39;illegals&#39; he is referring to are not white western european &#39;overstayers&#39; , but Latina/Latino peoples from Mexico, Central/South America -

because thats where most of them are from....


he&#39;s just mumbling racist stereotypes - complaining about how &#39;they&#39; bring &#39;gangs&#39;, shit on people&#39;s lawns (huh?), &#39;steal our jobs&#39; etc. - in this context, &#39;they&#39; is a clearly racialised term, and it&#39;s being used in an entirely derogatory fashion.

none of those things are racial stereotypes. stealing jobs has gone about every immigraitn group in us history. and perhaps "shiting on peoples lawns" is actual truth. people who live on the border routinely have their houses ransacked and indeed i&#39;ve heard of peoel haivng thier lawns shit on


I don&#39;t hear him complaining about all those fucking (illegal) whites who fly into the country and overstay their visas and who work illegally, or all those fucking whites who migrate to the US to steal the technical/skilled jobs of US college graduates - then again, such people are (more often than not) his &#39;white brothers and sisters&#39;

I&#39;m sure hes no fan of illegals from europe either, but they are a smaller number.

[bcbm]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2006, 08:52 AM
yea..the MM does not allow people to carry guns...
Depends on which group is doing the patrol, but sidearms are definitely allowed.



what colonial border?

US-Mexico. The Southwest hasn&#39;t always been part of the USA, remember? :rolleyes:


because hte influx of capital, jobs and cheaper products is somehow bad?

You&#39;re talking in overly simplistic terms about extremely complex issues, and I&#39;m not entirely sure which way you&#39;re talking about. Do you mean these things are coming or going from the US?

[theraven]

Depends on which group is doing the patrol, but sidearms are definitely allowed.

no they are not-the border patrol made a big deal out of the minutme not being allowed to cary firearms, or even arrest illegals. all they can do is notifty the border patrol.



US-Mexico. The Southwest hasn&#39;t always been part of the USA, remember? rolleyes.gif

so? msot of the people who lived in those areas were american anyway. the bear revolt by americans in califorian is one example. texas is another. the mexcaisn didn&#39;t have enough people who wanted to settle the area.



You&#39;re talking in overly simplistic terms about extremely complex issues, and I&#39;m not entirely sure which way you&#39;re talking about. Do you mean these things are coming or going from the US?

well last time i checked trade goes both ways. however I was efering to mexico.

[ack]

Originally posted by Black [email protected] 11 2006, 01:44 PM
Cool.

I hope this continues, sucks that none of em have been killed yet :(
I LOVE TO WATCH PEOPLE DIE&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; I WISH I COULD GO BACK TO ANCIENT ROME AND WATCH GLADIATOR BATTLES&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;
You&#39;re a dick. Just because people disagree with you, they deserve to die?

[ack]

Originally posted by Anti&#045;Red+Jul 12 2006, 09:48 AM--> (Anti&#045;Red &#064; Jul 12 2006, 09:48 AM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2006, 01:46 PM

Anti&#045;[email protected] 12 2006, 01:30 PM
If illegal immigrants were proven to be taking down the wages of the middle class, would you still support their right to come here without documents and have open borders?
Yes. Yes I would.
See, you guys don&#39;t give a DAMN about the economy. If you had to send us back to the stone age just for your precious illegals right to come start their gangs, crap on our front lawns, and steal our jobs, you would. YOU don&#39;t care about the working class. You care more about people from Turd World countries than your own stinking countrymen. [/b]
I dunno man, I always thought that immigrants were perfect for the US economy. Cheap labor that&#39;s easy to exploit, bingo&#33; Too bad about taking all the wonderful, sought after jobs in fields like:
Construction
Landscaping
Road Work
Fast Food
Painting

Guess all the white people will have to take those awful jobs at grocery stores, movie rental stores, and book stores&#33;

[Anti-Red]

Originally posted by Black [email protected] 12 2006, 03:10 PM
I don&#39;t hear him complaining about all those fucking (illegal) whites who fly into the country and overstay their visas and who work illegally, or all those fucking whites who migrate to the US to steal the technical/skilled jobs of US college graduates - then again, such people are (more often than not) his &#39;white brothers and sisters&#39;.
Actually those people are even worse than the Mexican illegals, because they actually steal the good jobs. I also don&#39;t like the Eastern Europeans who just come over here and apply for free refugee status.

[bcbm]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2006, 06:28 PM
no they are not-the border patrol made a big deal out of the minutme not being allowed to cary firearms, or even arrest illegals. all they can do is notifty the border patrol.
The minutemen sites I looked at advised members to bring sidearms to patrol the border (not rifles), and there are plenty of pictures of them carrying guns on Google. They aren&#39;t supposed to interact with any immigrants they see, but they can have guns.


so? msot of the people who lived in those areas were american anyway. the bear revolt by americans in califorian is one example. texas is another. the mexcaisn didn&#39;t have enough people who wanted to settle the area.

Most? No, the areas were still primarily Mexican, not Anglo, at the same of the various "revolutions" by the filabusteros in those states. And the real reason they fought to become part of the US in Texas was so they could have slaves. :rolleyes:



well last time i checked trade goes both ways. however I was efering to mexico.

Ok. Well, last I checked, capital hasn&#39;t been flowing into the Mexican working class and only parts of the ruling classes. The influx of jobs has been mostly maquiladoras along the border, which are awful and fairly destructive both for workers and the surrounding environment. The primary "cheaper products" have been things like corn which, thanks to US subsidies, can be sold at a loss and undercut traditional Mexican farmers who then, incidentally, lose thier livelihood and migrate north. The situation is even worse as you get further south, as the US (through the IMF/WB) completely controls some of these countries&#39; economies.

[theraven]

The minutemen sites I looked at advised members to bring sidearms to patrol the border (not rifles), and there are plenty of pictures of them carrying guns on Google. They aren&#39;t supposed to interact with any immigrants they see, but they can have guns.


could you show me the link where it said that, I could not find it on their homepage.



Most? No, the areas were still primarily Mexican, not Anglo, at the same of the various "revolutions" by the filabusteros in those states. And the real reason they fought to become part of the US in Texas was so they could have slaves. rolleyes.gif

http://www.houstonculture.org/spanish/anglo.html


Spain employed two different immigration policies for Louisiana and Texas. Spain wanted to attract loyal immigrants to Louisiana but discouraged immigration into Texas because of its long history establishing missions and forming better relations with the native tribes of Texas. Anglo immigrants gradually began entering both Louisiana and Texas under new immigration policies and land contracts, eventually becoming the majority group in Texas and leading the revolutionary struggle for independence.

I am sure something similair exists for califorinia s well. again its not like we kicked out a bunch of mexicans when we took over.



Ok. Well, last I checked, capital hasn&#39;t been flowing into the Mexican working class and only parts of the ruling classes.The influx of jobs has been mostly maquiladoras along the border, which are awful and fairly destructive both for workers and the surrounding environment. The primary "cheaper products" have been things like corn which, thanks to US subsidies, can be sold at a loss and undercut traditional Mexican farmers who then, incidentally, lose thier livelihood and migrate north. The situation is even worse as you get further south, as the US (through the IMF/WB) completely controls some of these countries&#39; economies.


1) foreign capital comes in to the country, nto to specific people. mexico is still recovering from socialism so give them a brek
2) maquiladoras are factories and while i doubt they are the ideal work setting they are not that bad either.
3) i was refring to wal-mart imports

[bcbm]

could you show me the link where it said that, I could not find it on their homepage.

http://www.minutemanhq.com/state/read.php?chapter=CA&sid=6


again its not like we kicked out a bunch of mexicans when we took over.

I was wrong about the specifics but you did kick out a bunch of Mexicans, even ones who fought on the side of the revolutionaries&#33; And, again, the "revolutionary" war for "independence" was fought so that they could own slaves. Mexico was more progressive than its northern cousin on that issue...


1) foreign capital comes in to the country, nto to specific people. mexico is still recovering from socialism so give them a brek

Capital doesn&#39;t come in if everything coming into the country is owned by people outside of the country. Mexico is still being ravaged by free market policies, it could probably use a bit of socialism right now.


2) maquiladoras are factories and while i doubt they are the ideal work setting they are not that bad either.


No, actually, they&#39;re pretty bad.
http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=1528


3) i was refring to wal-mart imports

Oh, silly me. :rolleyes: Doesn&#39;t change the fact that the US is flooding Mexican markets and forcing people North, which is what this discussion is about in the first place.

[Anti-Red]

Originally posted by black banner black [email protected] 13 2006, 12:35 PM
And, again, the "revolutionary" war for "independence" was fought so that they could own slaves.

.
Actually it was fought so that we would not be taxed to death without being represented in parliament, because Britain had slavery then. Why do you guys always bring up revisionist history like that?

[theraven]

http://www.minutemanhq.com/state/read.php?chapter=CA&sid=6


from this quote its quite obvious that while they have a gun, its only for protection. any link to an illegeal getting shot would be nice.


No display of long arms, rifles or shotguns. Sidearms are for personal protection only and must remain holstered at all times. STATE LAW PROVIDES FOR LEGAL OPEN CARRY OF SIDEARMS ON GOVERNMENT AND PRIVATE LAND.



I was wrong about the specifics but you did kick out a bunch of Mexicans, even ones who fought on the side of the revolutionaries&#33; And, again, the "revolutionary" war for "independence" was fought so that they could own slaves. Mexico was more progressive than its northern cousin on that issue...


1) only texans cared about slaves, california was a free state (in fact that was a condition of them entering the union)
2) evidnece we kicked out mexcians who fought on our side?



Capital doesn&#39;t come in if everything coming into the country is owned by people outside of the country. Mexico is still being ravaged by free market policies, it could probably use a bit of socialism right now.

1) I&#39;m sorry, but the only way to get to a decent level of capitlism is to start out with outsiders owning things. look at china and india

2) mexicos economy has improved dramticaly since capitsilm was re-introduced. it actually has a decent middle class. socialm would kill that.



No, actually, they&#39;re pretty bad.
http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=1528

you mean because the workers aren&#39;t getting 20 dollars an hour liek they do in america? im sorry but thats not usualy how workers start out. generally when your counrty is industlirizing the wages are pretty shitty (though usually better then when they were farmers-whic most were).

let me ask you this: if these are so bad, why do people work there?



Oh, silly me. rolleyes.gif Doesn&#39;t change the fact that the US is flooding Mexican markets and forcing people North, which is what this discussion is about in the first place.

so your saying its industirzling mexico. should i be sad?

[Dean]

Raven is a racist moron who is hardly libertarian, not even right - wing libertarian.

I&#39;d suggest banning him if it werent for my firm belief in free speach, since his arguments are the most defeatist crap I&#39;ve seen for the longest time, compellngly worse than the other neocons that occassionally post here.

[theraven]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2006, 03:59 PM
Raven is a racist moron who is hardly libertarian, not even right - wing libertarian.

I&#39;d suggest banning him if it werent for my firm belief in free speach, since his arguments are the most defeatist crap I&#39;ve seen for the longest time, compellngly worse than the other neocons that occassionally post here.
1) how is my post racist?

2) I am quite libertarin, I am all for immirgation (though it must be legal-which is why I am for allowing more immigrants in). I also believe in small/less intrusive governemt, freedom of speech/press and so on.

[bcbm]

Originally posted by Anti&#045;[email protected] 13 2006, 09:19 AM
Actually it was fought so that we would not be taxed to death without being represented in parliament, because Britain had slavery then. Why do you guys always bring up revisionist history like that?
The discussion is about Texas. Please read the thread before you take a shit in it.


from this quote its quite obvious that while they have a gun, its only for protection. any link to an illegeal getting shot would be nice.

I already mentioned the bit about rifles (though that hasn&#39;t stopped everyone).

http://la.indymedia.org/news/2005/07/133863.php


1) only texans cared about slaves, california was a free state (in fact that was a condition of them entering the union)
2) evidnece we kicked out mexcians who fought on our side?

California was won during the Mexican-American war. Prior revolts were filibusteros.

http://www.houstonculture.org/hispanic/alamo.html


1) I&#39;m sorry, but the only way to get to a decent level of capitlism is to start out with outsiders owning things. look at china and india

Currently there is a lot of outside ownership without it benefitting anyone else. This has been going on nearly as long as it had anywhere else, without much in the way of positive results for most Mexicans. Neo-liberalism is hitting Mexico pretty hard, and other Central American states are getting it even worse.


2) mexicos economy has improved dramticaly since capitsilm was re-introduced. it actually has a decent middle class. socialm would kill that.

I would hardly call the PRI socialist. Socialism wouldn&#39;t kill the middle class, or at least, it hasn&#39;t anywhere in the world yet. Of course, a classless society would probably do even better.


you mean because the workers aren&#39;t getting 20 dollars an hour liek they do in america? im sorry but thats not usualy how workers start out. generally when your counrty is industlirizing the wages are pretty shitty (though usually better then when they were farmers-whic most were).

Farmers don&#39;t make wages, and most farmers were forced off their land, they didn&#39;t have a choice. Of course wages will be lower, but they are kept purposefully low. Furthermore, the maquiladoras have had some negative impacts on the general enviroment and on social aspects.


so your saying its industirzling mexico. should i be sad?

Are you even following the discussion? I&#39;m saying the US has been flooding the Mexican market with cheap agricultural products that force farmers out of their land and into the US.

[theraven]

I already mentioned the bit about rifles (though that hasn&#39;t stopped everyone).

http://la.indymedia.org/news/2005/07/133863.php


1) as he states its from someone not under the control of the minutemen

2) the people are ILLEAGAL, shooting them could be argued as justifed.



California was won during the Mexican-American war. Prior revolts were filibusteros.

http://www.houstonculture.org/hispanic/alamo.html


no, it started as the hbear flag revolt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bear_Flag_Revolt) the US then sent in soldiers to help out and that was that.

and what does your link have to do with anything?



Currently there is a lot of outside ownership without it benefitting anyone else. This has been going on nearly as long as it had anywhere else, without much in the way of positive results for most Mexicans. Neo-liberalism is hitting Mexico pretty hard, and other Central American states are getting it even worse.

you mean nobody has jobs from these things? or new services?

come on....



I would hardly call the PRI socialist. Socialism wouldn&#39;t kill the middle class, or at least, it hasn&#39;t anywhere in the world yet. Of course, a classless society would probably do even better.


it usually does kill the middle class, or drasticly lower it. Mexico only got much of one recently




Farmers don&#39;t make wages, and most farmers were forced off their land, they didn&#39;t have a choice. Of course wages will be lower, but they are kept purposefully low. Furthermore, the maquiladoras have had some negative impacts on the general enviroment and on social aspects.

no farmers make profits your right, and yes factoreis generally do have negative impacts ont he enviroment.



Are you even following the discussion? I&#39;m saying the US has been flooding the Mexican market with cheap agricultural products that force farmers out of their land and into the US.

I thougth you meant maquiladoras...

[Janus]

the people are ILLEAGAL, shooting them could be argued as justifed.
Do you support it.


no
The US army and navy presence had a lot to do with the success of the revolt.

There was a Mexican uprising in Los Angeles when the American forces took over that so the Bear Flag revolt certainly wasn&#39;t representative of the entire pop.

[Dean]

Originally posted by theraven+Jul 13 2006, 04:12 PM--> (theraven @ Jul 13 2006, 04:12 PM)
[email protected] 13 2006, 03:59 PM
Raven is a racist moron who is hardly libertarian, not even right - wing libertarian.

I&#39;d suggest banning him if it werent for my firm belief in free speach, since his arguments are the most defeatist crap I&#39;ve seen for the longest time, compellngly worse than the other neocons that occassionally post here.
1) how is my post racist?

2) I am quite libertarin, I am all for immirgation (though it must be legal-which is why I am for allowing more immigrants in). I also believe in small/less intrusive governemt, freedom of speech/press and so on. [/b]
so, libertarian morals must fall within the law? you&#39;re a joke... I can&#39;t beleve people spend more than 5 minutes responding to your defeatist, illogical arguments - including myself.

..and you have made numerous implications thatyou are a racist, in your arguments for zionism and your anti-immigration ideas. you&#39;re not really for immigration and libertarianism if the immigrants must be legal, buddy.

im done with you... you rarely give legitimate responses to arguments; if someone cites AI articles that show that Israel is severely impeding on human rights of palestinians you ignore it and claim that israel is acting in retalation, while the UN confirms that both sides claim that their attacks are in retaliation.

[theraven]

so, libertarian morals must fall within the law? you&#39;re a joke... I can&#39;t beleve people spend more than 5 minutes responding to your defeatist, illogical arguments - including myself.

American society is one of laws, disobeying those laws is an assault on our society. some of those laws may need change (ie we should allow more immigrants in) but that does not change the fact that people blatnantly violating our soevirgnty are wrong.



..and you have made numerous implications thatyou are a racist, in your arguments for zionism and your anti-immigration ideas. you&#39;re not really for immigration and libertarianism if the immigrants must be legal, buddy.


my arguments for israel are non-racial, and i am not Anti-immiragnt, i am anti-illegeal immigrant. I am not some "no human is illegeal" moron.



im done with you... you rarely give legitimate responses to arguments; if someone cites AI articles that show that Israel is severely impeding on human rights of palestinians you ignore it and claim that israel is acting in retalation, while the UN confirms that both sides claim that their attacks are in retaliation.

yes both sides claim its retlataion..so whats that prove?

[R_P_A_S]

raven you full of hate. you can ***** all you want. but theres more workers coming as you sit on your computer and complain about them. theres more on the way and they wont stop coming.

[theraven]

Do you support it.


not under the present conditions no.




The US army and navy presence had a lot to do with the success of the revolt.

There was a Mexican uprising in Los Angeles when the American forces took over that so the Bear Flag revolt certainly wasn&#39;t representative of the entire pop.

Yes the US navy/army arrived a little later and undobteldy helped secure things.


raven you full of hate. you can ***** all you want. but theres more workers coming as you sit on your computer and complain about them. theres more on the way and they wont stop coming.

I have no problem with workers, i have a problem with people breaking the law.

PS I have a job-i am an assitant to a carpenter.

[R_P_A_S]

there&#39;s more mexicans who are american citizens who break the law than illegals homeboy&#33; they been here for generations. because 1/3 of the U.S. used to be Mexico until our crooked presidents gave it away for personal profit.

no lie

[bcbm]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2006, 01:45 PM
1) as he states its from someone not under the control of the minutemen

1) as he states its from someone not under the control of the minutemen


Like I said. Of course the MM will disown them, but I suspect the membership doesn&#39;t oppose such actions and would gladly take them, if not for the PR nightmare it would cause.


2) the people are ILLEAGAL, shooting them could be argued as justifed.

No.


no, it started as the hbear flag revolt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bear_Flag_Revolt) the US then sent in soldiers to help out and that was that.

Which was some 30 folks seizing a town hall, I believe after the M-A War had started. Hardly a widespread revolt. If they weren&#39;t filibusteros, they might as well have been.



and what does your link have to do with anything?

It talks about the disenfranchising of the Tejano population if you scroll down a bit.



you mean nobody has jobs from these things? or new services?

Some, but I don&#39;t think the concentration of jobs along the border is helping anyone particularly much. It is difficult to enjoy services when your life revolves around work and you live in what amount to "company towns."



it usually does kill the middle class, or drasticly lower it.

Which is why most social-democratic states have a large middle class?

[theraven]

Like I said. Of course the MM will disown them, but I suspect the membership doesn&#39;t oppose such actions and would gladly take them, if not for the PR nightmare it would cause.

who knows....?]


It talks about the disenfranchising of the Tejano population if you scroll down a bit.

it talks about hispanic texans.....


Some, but I don&#39;t think the concentration of jobs along the border is helping anyone particularly much. It is difficult to enjoy services when your life revolves around work and you live in what amount to "company towns."

ok? its better then working on a farm.


there&#39;s more mexicans who are american citizens who break the law than illegals homeboy&#33; they been here for generations. because 1/3 of the U.S. used to be Mexico until our crooked presidents gave it away for personal profit.

no lie

actually all illegals break the law...they are here illeageally...

[bcbm]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2006, 03:43 PM
it talks about hispanic texans.....
Let me help you:


he and other Tejanos felt the hostile encroachments of the growing Anglo power against them. After receiving a series of death threats, Seguín relocated his family in Mexico

the Hispanic population of the state was very quickly disenfranchised to the extent that their political representation in the Texas State Legislature disappeared entirely for several decades.


ok? its better then working on a farm.

How many maquiladoras and Mexican farms have you worked on? <_<

[theraven]

How many maquiladoras and Mexican farms have you worked on? dry.gif

none and I am fortunate, however in the comparsion factory workers are generally better off then farmers....



Let me help you:

what those quotes illustrate is that a very small minoirty was perseucated. we re not talking about ameica conquering some massive mexican populauce and then kcicking them out, but rather americans settling mostly empty mexican land.