Do Any Leftists Here [Archive]

Dean

13th July 2006, 20:35

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2006, 06:31 PM
Just curious. We all seem good enough at making fun of it. But are any of the Catholic Worker's Movement or Christian Anarchists here?
I do not believe in any extra-worldly powers; that is I believe in science (not only popper's methods but all studies of nature). I am an athiest, but nearly consider myself a "Christian" in the same sense that one might call themself a "Marxist."

I find that the New testament appears to contradict itself regularly, as it is written by people who are communist followers of Christ with varying issues. The general consensus amongst the story - tellers who lived from 70 years after christ's death to 250 years after is that he was a man of the people. He is depicted as the model of what libertarian communism is; he believes in complete brotherhood, a lack of authority right down to claiming that there should be no rabbis (meaning of course that priesthood is wrong) and that those who economically demoralize the poor (aka the rich) will have no place in heaven.

Heaven is not capitalized in the bible, implicating that heaven is an abstract idea that parallels communism, a potential future. "Let there be on earth what there is in heaven" can be compared to Moore's Utopia, a non-existant society of course but an idea to compare to the corruption of the current regime.

Even the concept of God can be said to be symbolic of mankind, or of the universe itself. It is often said that god is in everything - perhaps he represents the ability in every man and woman to create this utopian future.

In this way it is clear that there are a myriad of comparisons between Marx and the depiction of Jesus, however convoluted and contradictory the message of Jesus is in the New Testament.

Still, I do not call myself a christian, because I derive my morals from my own ideas, but there is a lot to be learned from the moral preachings that Jesus is claimed to have taught.

Forward Union

13th July 2006, 20:41

Eleutherios

13th July 2006, 20:49

Originally posted by Dean+Jul 13 2006, 05:36 PM--> (Dean @ Jul 13 2006, 05:36 PM) I find that the New testament appears to contradict itself regularly, as it is written by people who are communist followers of Christ with varying issues. [/b]
The New Testament was written by "communist followers of Christ"?! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Ephesians 6:5
Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ

Dean

14th July 2006, 00:25

As I've said before, it contradicts itself but the main trend appears to be a communistic approach to moral issues. Some authors make Jesus to be a racist, and others make it apparent that he is very oppositional to the ruling class, such as seen in his opposition to the Pharisees.

You must also understand that the quote you took parallels the take on peaceful and democratic reform that many communists believe in. I do not agree or disagree with it (especially considering that the context is omitted).

R_P_A_S

14th July 2006, 00:29

well im like. sorta kinda catholic. but not really. i grew up being catholic. im not active but I still have some beliefs.

Zingu

14th July 2006, 00:43

Leftists can be religious, but Communists, by definition, are not.

apathy maybe

14th July 2006, 16:02

I'ld just like to say a nice BULLSHIT to that last comment by Zingu. Despite claims to the contory by some on this board it is quite easy to be a communist and religious.

Being a materialist communist and religious (such as a Marxist) might pose some problems, but they aren't the only type of communist.

"Any philosophy advocating a classless, stateless society without money or markets organized according to the principle `from each according to ability, to each according to need'."

Thus it is possible to have a religious society organised on communist grounds.

Ol' Dirty

14th July 2006, 18:36

Some would say that I'm a theist, but I'm not. I'm a Buddhist entusiast, but I don't hold anything the Buddha said as dogma or cannon. I consider him just a realy great philosopher that had gread ideas, and who's movement was fucked up by a bunch of religionists who needed spirituality. I really don't consider Buddhism (whatever that is) a religion, but some people do, so I'll respect that.

As for religion, I think it has some good intention in it, but it's mostly just a dumb compulsion people have to need a "higher power" in their lives. I find it rather dull.

Still, I think that the mythology is rather interesting, and would make a nice story, as long as people don't take it to heart. After all, it's just a big story. You can get some good stuff out of it, but it's not real!

LSD

14th July 2006, 20:40

Do Any Leftists Here, actually have a religion?

About 13.73% (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=51637) of us last count. An encouragingly large drop from 30.67% (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=20658) a few years ago. :)

Koji Ishiguro

14th July 2006, 21:36

Any Unitarian Universalists here? Seems that the openess of the UU beliefs would be compatible with most leftist's ideals.

More Fire for the People

14th July 2006, 21:46

Originally posted by Koji [email protected] 14 2006, 12:37 PM
Any Unitarian Universalists here? Seems that the openess of the UU beliefs would be compatible with most leftist's ideals.
Leftists do not hold ideals, merely a concept of history and love.

LSD

14th July 2006, 22:14

Leftists do not hold ideas, merely a concept of history and love.

:blink:

um...what?

RevMARKSman

14th July 2006, 22:23

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2006, 02:15 PM

Leftists do not hold ideas, merely a concept of history and love.

:blink:

um...what?
Seconded. Very much so. :blink:

More Fire for the People

15th July 2006, 01:08

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2006, 01:15 PM

Leftists do not hold ideas, merely a concept of history and love.

:blink:

um...what?
Romanticism, mate, romantacisim. As leftists we show a strong aversion to idealism. Thus we have no '[Platonic] ideals' for society to conform too, merely observations.

LSD

15th July 2006, 02:18

It's not the "concept of history" part that bothers me, it's the "love" part. Ideology based on emotionalism is empty almost by definition.

I have no problem with trying to eliminate the idealist from leftist thought; I have a big problem with trying to replace it with "feelings".

More Fire for the People

15th July 2006, 02:23

You honestly have no compassion or love for your fellow worker? Sure, we can be real pricks towards each other but by the end of the day we stick togethor because of our class ties.

Delta

15th July 2006, 03:25

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2006, 09:41 AM

Do Any Leftists Here, actually have a religion?

About 13.73% (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=51637) of us last count. An encouragingly large drop from 30.67% (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=20658) a few years ago. :)
Do restricted members have access to that poll (since it's in opposing idealogies)? If so, then the number might be even less than 13%.

LSD

15th July 2006, 04:15

You honestly have no compassion or love for your fellow worker?

Sure I do, but that's not the origin of my politics!

"Love" as a basis for an ideological paradigm reaks of Christian theology and utlimately has nothing to do with the materialist perspective on which modern class-war communism is based.

Comrade-Z

15th July 2006, 05:46

Any Unitarian Universalists here? Seems that the openess of the UU beliefs would be compatible with most leftist's ideals

I was brought up Unitarian Universalist. In fact, my grandfather is a retired Unitarian minister. But I dropped that useless bullshit long ago. Unitarianism is such a pathetic excuse for a religion, so it's rather easy to walk away from. I truly pity the people who were raised Catholic or Southern Baptist. That's got to be some tough shit to break free from.

Edit:

Heck, if you asked me what Unitarian Universalism is all about, I wouldn't know what to say, my church did such a crappy job of indoctrinating its youth. That's not to say it's harmless, though. Like any other superstitious bullshit, it encourages the state of non-thinking known as "faith," which is never a useful thing for one's self.

Zingu

15th July 2006, 06:40

"Any philosophy advocating a classless, stateless society without money or markets organized according to the principle `from each according to ability, to each according to need'."

Thus it is possible to have a religious society organised on communist grounds.

Utopian Socialists can fit in that category, and they aren't Communists. I guess 'Radical Anabaptists" of the 1520s who seized control of Münster are your comrades? :lol:

Being a Communist and a follower in religion is completely contradictory. Religion is only one of the products of class society, and the process of Communism is to transcend such values while positively abolishing private property:

This material, immediately perceptible private property is the material perceptible expression of estranged human life. Its movement -- production and consumption -- is the perceptible revelation of the movement of all production until now, i.e., the realisation or the reality of man. Religion, family, state, law, morality, science, art, etc., are only particular modes of production, and fall under its general law. The positive transcendence of private property as the appropriation of human life, is therefore the positive transcendence of all estrangement – that is to say, the return of man from religion, family, state, etc., to his human, i.e., social, existence. Religious estrangement as such occurs only in the realm of consciousness, of man’s inner life, but economic estrangement is that of real life; its transcendence therefore embraces both aspects. It is evident that the initial stage of the movement amongst the various peoples depends on whether the true recognised life of the people manifests itself more in consciousness or in the external world – is more ideal or real. Communism begins from the outset (Owen) with atheism; but atheism is at first far from being communism; indeed, that atheism is still mostly an abstraction......

Atheism, as the denial of this unreality, has no longer any meaning, for atheism is a negation of God, and postulates the existence of man through this negation; but socialism as socialism no longer stands in any need of such a mediation. It proceeds from the theoretically and practically sensuous consciousness of man and of nature as the essence. Socialism is man’s positive self-consciousness, no longer mediated through the abolition of religion, just as real life is man’s positive reality, no longer mediated through the abolition of private property, through communism.

Egalitarianism does NOT EQUAL COMMUNISM, no matter HOW radical. Religion is just a product thats shares the same source that ideology, the state, and the family are spawned from; class society and man's self estrangement. And as you can see above, communism is a process, not a definite state.

Note that the topic poster was talking if leftists "can be religious", certainly. But don't mix up communists with your "leftism".

STI

15th July 2006, 10:40

Southern Baptist.

I was raised Baptist. The thing is, they're such pricks are hold so tightly to their complete idiocy that about three-quarters of the people in my age group have ended up not believing in god at all!.

The other one-quarter, though, are fucked.

RevMARKSman

15th July 2006, 14:12

I truly pity the people who were raised Catholic

Or still ARE... :wacko:

Si Pinto

15th July 2006, 14:31

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2006, 11:13 AM

I truly pity the people who were raised Catholic

Or still ARE... :wacko:
Actually officialy I'm C of E <_<

Staunch protestant is just as bad as staunch catholic believe me.

I was going out with a girl who hailed from Ireland (along with her family). she had beautiful black hair and brown eyes .... ^_^ .......I'm drifting off topic here...

Anyways we were going to get hitched (married) but her parents refused because I was C of E.....despite my girlfriend telling them that I wasn't in any way religious....which probably just made it worse.

We were going to just go away together but we were only 17/18 at the time....in the end we split up.

Religion seriously fucks your life up folks.

Reminds me of that song...

"Tis the biggest mix-up that you have ever seen...me father he was orange and me mother she was green...."

:(

power... UNLIMITED POWER!

15th July 2006, 15:36

Anyways we were going to get hitched (married) but her parents refused because I was C of E.....despite my girlfriend telling them that I wasn\'t in any way religious....which probably just made it worse.
Too bad. Did you have some fun with her or she too religious? I had a hot girl at 17 that I just couldnt shake she wouldnt accept no more and followed me around. Very funny. Why didnt you say u were 2nd gen catholic family from France? You could save a lot of heartache if you think these things thru first. Lies always save the day.

We were going to just go away together but we were only 17/18 at the time....in the end we split up.
Too young to marry anyway. You marry your not a kid anymore. I never want to get married. Some of my friends from school are already married, yuk. Im 24 btw. Ignoramuses. They dont know the freedom they are giving up. I wish them hell on earth. I just want have lotz of girls to scru. No rush to marry. Its just a religious ceremony, no big deal anyway for the big atheist, right?

Religion seriously fucks your life up folks.
I had no problems with it and met lots of cool people. Just cause your life is fucked is no reason to dish religion. Sure its bad, but it keeps people honest.

Si Pinto

15th July 2006, 16:46

I had no problems with it and met lots of cool people

erm....ever tried a nightclub?

Just cause your life is fucked is no reason to dish religion

What? Why not?

Why should you stay faithful to something that screws you up?

If a government screws you up do you still vote for it?

Anyway, I don't 'dish' religion because of personal issues. I do it because it's a sham.

If a salesman knocked at your door trying to sell you something that will only be any use to you after you die you'd tell him to sod off wouldn't you?

If you want to put your faith and trust in something that has caused more wars and misery than any government in world history then that's upto you.

As far as I'm concerned they can go to hell, their hell that is.

but it keeps people honest.

:lol:

Yeah you stay honest but your evangelist preacher robs you blind......or your WACO priest sexually abuses you from childhood and makes teenage girls into teenage mothers for his own kicks.

All in the name of religion.

As I say if you want it then it's all yours

power... UNLIMITED POWER!

15th July 2006, 17:02

erm....ever tried a nightclub?
Thats where I get my babes. Most airheads though. Hard to fall in love with such vermin. Scru and dump... NEXT!

What? Why not?

Why should you stay faithful to something that screws you up?
i dont.

If a government screws you up do you still vote for it?
nup.

Anyway, I don\\\'t \\\'dish\\\' religion because of personal issues. I do it because it\\\'s a sham.
ok.

If a salesman knocked at your door trying to sell you something that will only be any use to you after you die you\\\'d tell him to sod off wouldn\\\'t you?
yep.

If you want to put your faith and trust in something that has caused more wars and misery than any government in world history then that\\\'s upto you.
im not religious. Techonology will kill religoun, not lefties like you.

As far as I\\\'m concerned they can go to hell, their hell that is.
funny if it existed and your going there fore being C E right?

Yeah you stay honest but your evangelist preacher robs you blind......or your WACO priest sexually abuses you from childhood and makes teenage girls into teenage mothers for his own kicks.

All in the name of religion.
Yep.

As I say if you want it then it\'s all yours
I dont want it. But I wont oppose what is none of my business also. Also religious chicks are less likely to have STDs :wink:

Ã‘Ã³ẊÃ®Ã¶ŉ

16th July 2006, 03:27

Thats where I get my babes. Most airheads though. Hard to fall in love with such vermin. Scru and dump... NEXT!

Fuck off you sexist piece of shit! http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/images/smiles/finger.gif

power... UNLIMITED POWER!

16th July 2006, 09:30

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2006, 12:28 AM

Thats where I get my babes. Most airheads though. Hard to fall in love with such vermin. Scru and dump... NEXT!

Fuck off you sexist piece of shit! http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/images/smiles/finger.gif
im not sexist becuase males at niteclubs are also vermin airheads. now apologise!

Ã‘Ã³ẊÃ®Ã¶ŉ

16th July 2006, 12:31

Originally posted by power... UNLIMITED POWER!+Jul 16 2006, 06:31 AM--> (power... UNLIMITED POWER! @ Jul 16 2006, 06:31 AM)
[email protected] 16 2006, 12:28 AM

Thats where I get my babes. Most airheads though. Hard to fall in love with such vermin. Scru and dump... NEXT!

Fuck off you sexist piece of shit! http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/images/smiles/finger.gif
im not sexist becuase males at niteclubs are also vermin airheads. now apologise! [/b]
Nice try, but no dice. You should have mentioned it first hand.

You mus also go to some shitty nightclubs, spanishinquisition.

Goatse

16th July 2006, 13:18

Why is this guy not banned yet? He's a rampant sexist homophobe, who is constantly threatening us, telling us we better not revolt "or else."

Si Pinto

16th July 2006, 13:52

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2006, 09:32 AM
You mus also go to some shitty nightclubs, spanishinquisition.
:lol:

I knew it.....

Does your girlfriend know about all this 'scru and dump'?

power... UNLIMITED POWER!

16th July 2006, 15:11

Originally posted by Si Pinto+Jul 16 2006, 10:53 AM--> (Si Pinto @ Jul 16 2006, 10:53 AM)
[email protected] 16 2006, 09:32 AM
You mus also go to some shitty nightclubs, spanishinquisition.
:lol:

I knew it.....

Does your girlfriend know about all this \'scru and dump\'? [/b]
I hate you...

apathy maybe

16th July 2006, 15:49

Originally posted by Zingu+--> (Zingu)Utopian Socialists can fit in that category, and they aren't Communists. I guess 'Radical Anabaptists" of the 1520s who seized control of Münster are your comrades? laugh.gif[/b]
Communists are communists, things in common, equal society, etc. If a group meets the criteria; if it sounds like a duck, looks like a duck, moves like a, etc. then it is either a duck or a very good simicrala (fucked if I know how to spell that word.); I think they would be communists. I didn't say comrades, but they might be.

Originally posted by [email protected]
Being a Communist and a follower in religion is completely contradictory. Religion is only one of the products of class society, and the process of Communism is to transcend such values while positively abolishing private property:
Superstition is not a product of class society at least (and it could be argued that religion is not either). To claim that superstition is a product of class society is to ignore history. Sure some religions (leaving the door open for the others), are direct products of class society and inequality.

Zingu
Note that the topic poster was talking if leftists "can be religious", certainly. But don't mix up communists with your "leftism".I was just answering your claim about communists. I agree that leftists can be religious, I also say that being a materialist is not a requirement for being a communist, which you seem to disagree with.

theraven

17th July 2006, 18:08

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2006, 10:19 AM
Why is this guy not banned yet? He's a rampant sexist homophobe, who is constantly threatening us, telling us we better not revolt "or else."
or else your parents will ground you :-p

and btw how is making a generlization about certian girls sexist? he wasn't saying ALL girls, jsut these specific girls.

was that why he was banned?

Si Pinto

17th July 2006, 18:21

Originally posted by [email protected] 17 2006, 03:09 PM
and btw how is making a generlization about certian girls sexist? he wasn't saying ALL girls, jsut these specific girls.

was that why he was banned?
Generalisation???

Thats where I get my babes

Most airheads though

Hard to fall in love with such vermin

Scru and dump... NEXT!

Some people would find just one of those quotes to be sexist or just plain offensive, put together there is no other description for them surely?

Apparently he was banned because he was SpanishInquistion in disguise.

Which actually makes the above comments worse given how 'touchy' he was about the word 'girlfriend' being mentioned.

theraven

17th July 2006, 18:30

Generalisation???

indeed

Most airheads though

see the qualifer "most". Infact form my experince its often true. I have met exceptions, but generally the girls you would pick up at a club are not of the highest caliber. (and for the msot part guys you meet at clubs are tools)

Some people would find just one of those quotes to be sexist or just plain offensive, put together there is no other description for them surely?

offesneive? sure, sexist? not really. he did mention girls, but he was being specific, and not saying they were airhead BECAUSE they were girls, but rather because they went to the clubs and were generally "easy"

as for his "scru and dump" thing well isn't he about 21? thats not exactly uncommon in college boys....not nice..but not uncommon.

Si Pinto

17th July 2006, 19:00

see the qualifer "most". Infact form my experince its often true. I have met exceptions, but generally the girls you would pick up at a club are not of the highest caliber. (and for the msot part guys you meet at clubs are tools)

So it's only sexist if he is describing womanhood in it's entirity?

That's daft.

He is describing the MAJORITY of the woman he bumps into in his nightclub as airheads, vermin, basically unlovable and only fit for 'scru and dump'.

When actually his own actions, in using these women as his sexual tools because he feels they are 'not fit for anything else' is far worse than going to a club just to have a good time.

How can you not describe that 'thinking' (for want of a better word) as sexist?

If your subscribing to this wording then your as bad as he is.

The VAST majority of girls in nightclubs are there for a night out with their friends just as most lads are as well, if this results in girls and lads having sex then fine, but I think you'll find, when you cut through the male bravado bullshit which may make you think otherwise, that this actually happens quite rarely.

Describing the ones that do get off together as 'airheads and vermin' is both sexist and offensive in it's own right.

theraven

17th July 2006, 20:52

Originally posted by Si [email protected] 17 2006, 04:01 PM

see the qualifer "most". Infact form my experince its often true. I have met exceptions, but generally the girls you would pick up at a club are not of the highest caliber. (and for the msot part guys you meet at clubs are tools)

So it's only sexist if he is describing womanhood in it's entirity?

That's daft.

He is describing the MAJORITY of the woman he bumps into in his nightclub as airheads, vermin, basically unlovable and only fit for 'scru and dump'.

When actually his own actions, in using these women as his sexual tools because he feels they are 'not fit for anything else' is far worse than going to a club just to have a good time.

How can you not describe that 'thinking' (for want of a better word) as sexist?

If your subscribing to this wording then your as bad as he is.

The VAST majority of girls in nightclubs are there for a night out with their friends just as most lads are as well, if this results in girls and lads having sex then fine, but I think you'll find, when you cut through the male bravado bullshit which may make you think otherwise, that this actually happens quite rarely.

Describing the ones that do get off together as 'airheads and vermin' is both sexist and offensive in it's own right.
1) he was descibring on subset (the majortiy fo girls at the clubs he frequents) he is not saying "all women" or even "most women" just "mos of these women" an di believe he was doing so to explain why he wasnt' dating them ie they were stupid. and i concur, i have no inteiotn of dating a stupid women, however a drunken one night stand? sure.

2) the "screw and dump"is a bit mean, but often as not its a mutaul thing. you hook up with someone at a party ro club go home, do the dirty thing, and then leave in the morning. now if he liketucker max (http://www.tuckermax.com) than you can say hes "using women", though i am sure tucker would disagree (and does-read the site)

3) sure some girls go to night clubs to just dance with their freinds and then hook up with randoms. and believe it or not but air heads can have friends to. the fact that they are airheads in now way precludes them from going out to have fun. ALSO he never said ALL girls at ALL clubs, but MOST of the girls at the clubs HE frequents. thus the situation could be vastly differetn with you.

cormacobear

17th July 2006, 21:28

Yes there are many leftists of all stipres who have retained their faith. But opposition here is fierce and divisive. My advice to any leftists who have retained their religious beliefs is don't mention it keep your head down and those of the angrier anti-religionist bent can't tell you apart.

Liberation Theology
The Paulist Father's
Maryknoll.org
The Catholic Workers movement

Those are just a few of the more left leaning Catholic sects I don't know mamny of the muslim, Jewish or other christian groups but I'm sure their are some.

But the question was straight forward are their religious leftists here... the answer is yes.

Eleutherios

17th July 2006, 22:04

I wouldn't encourage anyone to just shut up about what they believe. The only way human knowledge can advance is if people express and argue for their beliefs. Rigorous debate combined with open-mindedness sorts out the correct ideas from the incorrect ideas. If you have an opinion but aren't willing to or capable of backing it up with well-reasoned arguments in the face of disagreement, then you desperately need to re-evaluate your beliefs.

Raisa

20th July 2006, 10:11

praxis1966

21st July 2006, 03:39

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2006, 03:32 AM
You mus also go to some shitty nightclubs, spanishinquisition.
NO one expects the Spanish Inquisition!

Sorry, couldn't help myself. Anyway, I don't really have a religion, that is to say I couldn't really give a shit anymore. I was raised Ruhani Satsang, went atheist for a while, became a Buddhist, then left that for agnosticism. Lately, I'm just apathetic. I really couldn't care less whether there's a god/goddess/over-soul/supreme being/higher power/spaghetti monster anymore. In fact, the only time I concern myself with it is when innocent people are being murdered over it.

Dooga Aetrus Blackrazor

21st July 2006, 03:56

Originally posted by [email protected] 17 2006, 07:05 PM
If you have an opinion but aren't ... capable of backing it up with well-reasoned arguments in the face of disagreement ...
then you're probably religious.

Phalanx

21st July 2006, 23:13

Kinda still Jewish, but basically agnostic.

I just can't bring myself to believe in god anymore. So why the hell try!

Demogorgon

25th July 2006, 00:49

I gave up on religion myself, but after I embraced socialism.

A good friend of mine is quite devoutly Catholic. But pretty much standard socialist apart from that. Liberatio Theology has done a lot of good for the world. You can't deny that.

Eleutherios

25th July 2006, 05:59

I consider "Liberation Theology" to be an oxymoron. If you're still worshiping a "higher power" and following all his rules then you're still in a state of mental slavery. And I don't really see a whole lot of improvement of our world that can be attributed to the Liberation Theology movement.

There is a reason the bourgeois Catholic Church will never embrace Liberation Theology. Anyone who claims to simultaneously embrace Catholicism and revolutionary communism is simply fooling themselves, and in all likelihood has not read the Bible or the doctrines of the Roman Catholic Church in detail.

che's long lost daughter

25th July 2006, 15:14

I was born and raised as Catholic, but as I was growing I realised the idiocy and hypocrisy of this religion and any other religion that ever existed. Now I can say that I do not belong to any religion but I consider myself "spiritual" which has a great deal of difference to being religious.

RedWhite

2nd August 2006, 20:13

Raised baptist, went to atheism, then Wicca, now and forever Heathen.

Comrade J

5th August 2006, 08:34

I was raised by atheist parents, allowed to make my own decision, thankfully I am atheist.

However, I support Liberation Theology. Whilst it's not the ideal solution, it's much better than nothing. How the hell people can back a Lebanese Islamic group who despise gay people but be opposed to liberation theology is totally fucking beyond me.

Invader Zim

7th August 2006, 00:41

Utopian Socialists can fit in that category

Err, that definition does not come close to defining utopian socialism and most Utopian socialists of the 19th century rejected religion, as the clear bullshit that it is.

Rawthentic

16th August 2006, 03:28

Originally posted by che's long lost [email protected] 25 2006, 04:15 AM
I was born and raised as Catholic, but as I was growing I realised the idiocy and hypocrisy of this religion and any other religion that ever existed. Now I can say that I do not belong to any religion but I consider myself "spiritual" which has a great deal of difference to being religious.
Same here comrade, I even did my First Communion and shit. But as I introduced myself to Marxism and communism, it became logical to push religion out of my life for good. But my family on both sides it incredibly religious and pray for everything, sometimes I feel like puking. My 5 year old brother goes to a Christian school where they indoctrinate him with all this superstition at such a young age, which my mother supports. It makes my blood boil, but he is much too young to understand Marxism.

Okocim

16th August 2006, 15:08

Originally posted by hastalavictoria+Aug 16 2006, 12:29 AM--> (hastalavictoria @ Aug 16 2006, 12:29 AM)
che's long lost [email protected] 25 2006, 04:15 AM
I was born and raised as Catholic, but as I was growing I realised the idiocy and hypocrisy of this religion and any other religion that ever existed. Now I can say that I do not belong to any religion but I consider myself "spiritual" which has a great deal of difference to being religious.
Same here comrade, I even did my First Communion and shit. But as I introduced myself to Marxism and communism, it became logical to push religion out of my life for good. But my family on both sides it incredibly religious and pray for everything, sometimes I feel like puking. My 5 year old brother goes to a Christian school where they indoctrinate him with all this superstition at such a young age, which my mother supports. It makes my blood boil, but he is much too young to understand Marxism. [/b]
Another one here.

I can still remember all the words to the prayers. That's what's scary - even several years after realising it's all lies, they had sufficiently indoctrinated me to make sure I didn't forget the words to their prayers:

"I believe in one god, the the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth......"

:angry:

My little bro went to catholic school too - I'm so proud of him, he realised it was all a lie when he was only about 8 :D

I don't think religion and communism can mix - the control it has over people is too great and if someone is not prepared to give up their religion for communism, it raises doubts in my mind of how dedicated they really are if they're not prepared to see through that lie.

SocialJustice19

24th August 2006, 01:54

"Like any other superstitious bullshit, it encourages the state of non-thinking known as 'faith,' which is never a useful thing for one's self."

So you define faith as "non thinking"?
I do not understand most of you people. Religion is not the pure ill that plagues society... It is MAN.
You take into account your own experiences and interpretations of God and that is your faith. You do not have to fall into the indoctrination MAN has created.
This is why religion has become so stigmatized. Not all people of faith are stupid, unreasonable people.
So stop ostracizing people who believe in God or follow a certain ideology.

"I truly pity the people who were raised Catholic or Southern Baptist. That's got to be some tough shit to break free from."

I totally agree with you on that one. I was raised a Southern Baptist and it wasn't fun or easy. Being gay didn't help either.
However, I had my mom attend a Methodist church in downtown Orlando.
And let me tell you something, United Methodists are not our enemies. Methodism is probably the most accepting denomination of Christianity I know of. Some say it's very liberal and I have heard some say it's very Socialist.
But my point being is I couldn't be happier being around people who'll accept me so quickly. The Baptists pretty much diregarded me as a human being.

P.S
The Quote button was totally being annoying. So I used regular quotation marks.

ComradeBen

2nd September 2006, 17:04

I am a practicing Catholic and proud of it.

The Rover

2nd September 2006, 17:14

I'm sort of a fusion of several different religions.

RedAnarchist

2nd September 2006, 17:38

I was born to a Catholic father and a Protestant mother. I was baptised as an Anglican (Church of England) and from about 12 to 16 I was fairly religious. I became disillusioned with it around the age of 16 and began exploring other religions before becoming agnostic around the age of 18. By then I was moving to the left politically and now at the age of 20 i'm an Agnostic anarchist, although I'm quite close to becoming Athiest.

Xiao Banfa

8th September 2006, 04:24

Yep, I was raised in a Sufi/Gnostic group. I still believe in it. Our religious teacher was actually a member of a british non leninist marxist group.
I'm not down with the non leninist stuff. But I like the spirituality.

Basically I believe in god and that the essential esoteric message of all religions is the same.

I see no contradiction between spirituality and communism, in fact I see them as complementary.

I think a lot of extreme atheism is a mirror image reaction of conservative christian america.

It's like your either a literal-bible nutter or a "i hate morality, I know there is no god" kind of of chap.