Imperialism

[Revulero]

I know what you all say..... imperialism one of the evil ways to take control and exploit an other country. But I really dont think its allways bad, i believe its a way to unite a country or culture for example latin america i think should be united because they all have a similar culture.

There are three ways of imperialism:

1.Taking over a country with force (US and UK)BAD

2.Using Capitalism on other countries (US establishing wally world all over mexico)BAD

3.Just uniting through a revolution with no force or exploitations( in other words if one country rebels convinces others to rebel and unite) GOOD

[Dooga Aetrus Blackrazor]

Obviously there are many variables to consider when saying "imperialism is always good or bad." Furthermore, one may want to take historical materialism into account when examining such a question. Given the conditions during a certain time, it may be beneficial for imperialism to be implemented, but I would argue that there is always a better solution. The question is simply whether or not conditions make that solution possible.

For a more modern example, a restructuring of taxes would be beneficial in modern society, and this is (in some countries) a possibility. However, what would be superior to that is an anarchist/communist revolution where capital is destroyed and egalitarianism emerges. Both are theoretically possible, but I don't think it is necessarily always proper to demonizes the former implementation because something better exists. Such small accomplishments are part of a developing society and will always exist.

However, if accomplishing goal A (restructuring taxes) results in a sacrificing of the achievement of goal B (communism) one must consider all variables and make a decision as to whether the amount of sacrifice to B justifies achieving A - as one always has to realize modern accomplishments are important (who wants to live their entire life working towards something they may never experience?).

I would argue that imperialism seeks to accomplish something that sacrifices too many long-term goals to be justified. However, I will not claim to have a complete knowledge of all variables by which to condemn the concept in all circumstances.

[RebelDog]

Imperialism is bad full stop. It is just a large-scale mugging. I cannot see any example that would cause one to think it is good.


3.Just uniting through a revolution with no force or exploitations( in other words if one country rebels convinces others to rebel and unite) GOOD

Don't see how this is an example of imperialism in any regard.

[Ander]

Originally posted by The [email protected] 9 2006, 12:44 AM

3.Just uniting through a revolution with no force or exploitations( in other words if one country rebels convinces others to rebel and unite) GOOD

Don't see how this is an example of imperialism in any regard.
I'm going to have to agree here.

[Dean]

I don't see how liberation or your third option are imperialist. If a genuinely socialist (meaning egalitarian and free) nation seeks to liberate another nation in order to instill a more decentralized force, even liberation can serve a positive purpose.

[ComradeOm]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2006, 12:39 AM
3.Just uniting through a revolution with no force or exploitations
Imperialism is inherently exploitative. Try reading up on it (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=52219&st=0&#entry1292109630)

[KC]

:wub:

[Janus]

Imperialism is a policy of extending one's control, authority, or influence through acquisition of other territories. It is inherently bad.


Just uniting through a revolution with no force or exploitations( in other words if one country rebels convinces others to rebel and unite) GOOD
Uniting is not the same thing as imperialism.

[piet11111]

im from the netherlands and all we had to show for our imperialism that can be considered progress is the end of cannibalism in indonesia.

and for raping and looting such a large portion of the world i really dont consider it a good trade at all for the local population.

[Rawthentic]

Imperialism, with its inherent exploitative nature, has the power to unite the proletariat of the world, since capital transcends all national boundaries. It has ended with tradition and culture in many parts of the world and created a typical consumer out of everybody, regardless of who you are. It makes one a comsumer before a Latino, christian, etc.

[Andy Bowden]

Imperialism, with its inherent exploitative nature, has the power to unite the proletariat of the world

No it doesn't. Do you think Iraqi workers feel more united with US workers after the invasion?

Imperialism causes emnity between peoples of the world. You can't enforce class unity from the barrel of the gun - particularly when those holding the gun don't want class unity.

[Neo Bolshevik]

The entire question is unrealistic. It presumes that morality is seperable from one's historical conditions, which runs entirely against the grain of Marxism. Looked at through the lens of historical materialism, imperialism can indeed be seen as a positive thing - overproduction requires fresh markets, which in turn, via incorporating fresh populations (take a look at NAFTA), depresses wages and creates the conditions by which the proletariat is more capable of recognising it's own interests, and acting on its own behalf.

One must remember that the point of imperialism is not domination of foreign countries, but to open their labor markets and structure foreign societies in a way favorable to core, capitalist nations. Sponsoring military dictatorships by gun-running, 'exporting freedom', or whatever dessing up you wish to call it, performs the same function as occupying India did for the British Empire.

The propaganda of big business about 'Americans won't do jobs so immigrants are necessary' is garbage - American's won't work for a pittance, and it so happens imported Mexicans are more than willing. This naturally destroys the power of organised trade unions, depresses wages and further impoverishes the working class in America. One can object and call this the exploitation of the proletariat by big business - and that's blindingly obvious, but besides the point. The revolution, we must remember, is inevitable. Both imperialism and free trade, as Marx illustrated in Das Kapital, are important aspects necessary for historical development towards Socialism.

This is not to say one should support capitalism, obviously. Merely that both imperialism and free trade, the famed 'globalisation' of big business, are as inevitable as the fact the capitalists are digging their own grave, and building their own coffin to boot.