Race

[TalaTsume]

Like I said in my last post. I'm proud of where I come from, I'm proud of my blood, and I practice the religion of my pre-Christian ancestors. In this way it pains me to hear people say that race doesn't exist.

In the sense that we're all human, I understand. In the sense that we shouldn't hate each other, I understand. In the sense that fascism is a very bad thing, I understand.

But, how can you say that race does not exist? Have you forgotten where you come from? Do you not appreciate the fact taht the past creates the future, and that you would not be who you are without your ancestors' influence?

I worry that the races will mix and that the beauty of the past will be forgotten. I worry that in a newer world, however much better it may be than capitalism, the past will be forgotten, and the beauty of racial, culural, and religious uniqueness, between all races. Progress is important, of course, and life would be better under a communist government, but what would happen to our past? Would we simply forget? I could not live in a world like that.

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2006, 10:09 PM
In the sense that we're all human, I understand. In the sense that we shouldn't hate each other, I understand. In the sense that fascism is a very bad thing, I understand.
Very good...



But, how can you say that race does not exist? Have you forgotten where you come from? Do you not appreciate the fact taht the past creates the future, and that you would not be who you are without your ancestors' influence?
I can say race doesn't exist quite easily. Race doesn't exist, there we go. I have strong Nordic blood, some Angl-Saxon blood, a bit of Pictiash blood and that's just the stuff I know of, so I remember some of where I come from and I know it is the result of cultural mingling. The past does create the future, but the future is now and we must always strive to move forawrd, otherwise we will become the past that created no future. I would not be who I was if my anscestors did not continue to progress rather than yearn for some forgoten age of their ancestors.


I worry that the races will mix and that the beauty of the past will be forgotten. I worry that in a newer world, however much better it may be than capitalism, the past will be forgotten, and the beauty of racial, culural, and religious uniqueness, between all races. Progress is important, of course, and life would be better under a communist government, but what would happen to our past? Would we simply forget? I could not live in a world like that. How the fuck would we forget? History does not change, we would still be descendants of whoever and we could still remember old cultures but that does not nescessarly mean we SHOULD do everything to remember them, because we'll either stop going forwards or start going backwards.

[TalaTsume]

Perhaps I phrased some things wrong. As long as people don't forget where they come from and the lessons of the past, there is CERTAINLY nothing wrong with progress. Progress means prosperity.

My worry is that people would forget about their past when caught up in the struggle to defeat the bourgeois. Certainly race should not keep the people of a country apart, but everyone should know and at least respect their origins and their people.

Hmm... I'm not sure exactly how to put everything into words... Understand I'm learning a lot here. My biggest concern is the preservation of the races and their unique qualities and culture, but the more i think about it the smaller the threat seems to become. There is still, of course, the danger [I suppose in my eyes it's a danger.] that the blood of all the races in a communist state would mix and create a sort of amalgumation of races, but 100% purity isn't what I'm talking about anyway. So long as the races survive and can still be clearly distinguished from each other.

Im not sure what else to say or how to say it.

Tschüß Später!

[Dooga Aetrus Blackrazor]

Do you have any proof that race exists? Races are simply arbitrary categorizations of people.

Finally, geneticist Richard Lewontin, observing that 85 percent of human variation occurs within populations, and not between populations, argued that neither "race" nor "subspecies" was an appropriate or useful way to describe populations (Lewontin 1973).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race#The_reje...and_.22cline.22 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race#The_rejection_of_race_and_the_rise_of_.22popu lation.22_and_.22cline.22)

What does this mean? There is more of a genetic difference amongst two whites or two blacks than there is between a white and black individual.

[Ol' Dirty]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2006, 05:09 PM

I worry that in a newer world, however much better it may be than capitalism, the past will be forgotten, and the beauty of racial, culural, and religious uniqueness, between all races. Progress is important, of course, and life would be better under a communist government, but what would happen to our past? Would we simply forget? I could not live in a world like that.

Like I said in my last post. I'm proud of where I come from, I'm proud of my blood,

Pride in things you can't control is never a good idea. Where you come from, your skin color, or your parantage are completly irrelevant.


and I practice the religion of my pre-Christian ancestors.

You're a pagan? A polytheist? Something else? Interesting. Still, I fail to see that as something to be proud of. In this (being a part of an ethnic group) case, you haven't done anything noteworty. Tusly, there is nothing to be proud of. It is fine to be proud of your families accomplishments, but being black or white, hispanic or asian, Native American, inter-ethnic etc, is no great accomplishment. Youi were, after all, born that way.


In this way it pains me to hear people say that race doesn't exist.

The truth hurts, sometimes.

http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=49265


But, how can you say that race does not exist?

Because it's true.


I worry that the races will mix and that the beauty of the past will be forgotten.

What the fuck? :blink:

Are you a racist, or something? My god? dude, i'm bi-'racial' my mom is white, and my dad is black, and you're afraid of that?

Holy...Fucking...Shit.

That's very sadening. :(

[TalaTsume]

I'm proud of who i am and where i come from because it's unique. Beautiful in its own way, seperate from others. not putting myself above anyone, but showing that I am diferent.

As far as proving that race exists... Are you kidding me? o.O Not everyone is the same color, has the same genetics, or the same ethnic background... duh.

I'm all for government disregarding the race of its citizens, but come on... no one is "colorblind" like you're acting...

[Dooga Aetrus Blackrazor]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2006, 02:23 AM
As far as proving that race exists... Are you kidding me? o.O Not everyone is the same color, has the same genetics, or the same ethnic background... duh.

I'm all for government disregarding the race of its citizens, but come on... no one is "colorblind" like you're acting...
Read my above post (if you didn't already). Race involves using arbitrary variables to divide people into different categories. People within the races you believe exist have genetic differences and similiarities. Black, hispanic, and jewish individuals share some of these individuals. We could easily categorize race based on different genetic criteria than we do now. Instead, race is surprsingly centered around accentuating physically visible differences. One must question why that is if the concept has so much scientific validity? You may want to research anthropomology and the new views on race emerging from that field. People are considering groups with different genes to be "populations" rather than races because it is both more politically correct and scientifically accurate.

Furthermore, you say no one is colorblind, and that is true. However, why can we not disregard the race of our citizens. To you have views on certain men who where red or blue - masculine accepted colors - or do you simply have views on men who where pink, a color society has taught you has connotations inappropriate for men? The focus and obsession on race is the result of a culture that fuels and promotes racial division. We could have prejudices based on hair color, and we do have some, but they are less prevalent (I would argue because race is a construction perpetuated because of its physical obviousness rather than genetic significance.

[bombeverything]

As far as proving that race exists... Are you kidding me? o.O Not everyone is the same color, has the same genetics, or the same ethnic background... duh.

The term 'race' is not useful as a scientific category. It (incorrectly) assumes that people who share common physical characteristics form a separate and distinct 'race' and that the notion of biological race can explain differences in human behaviour and culture. This belief is not only used to attribute physical characteristics but also psychological and cultural ones, and is closely linked to racism.


There is still, of course, the danger [I suppose in my eyes it's a danger.] that the blood of all the races in a communist state would mix and create a sort of amalgumation of races, but 100% purity isn't what I'm talking about anyway. So long as the races survive and can still be clearly distinguished from each other.

Hmm ... <_<

[which doctor]

Don&#39;t all humans originate from some settlement in Africa?

[TalaTsume]

All I&#39;m saying is that as similar and different we are, races [and yeah.. that is a stupid word for it.. race.. almost implies a different species] do exist. There are distinctions between groups of people, as insignificant as they may be. Just because the differences are small doesn&#39;t mean you can just pretend it doesn&#39;t exist.

[Mujer Libre]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2006, 03:35 AM
All I&#39;m saying is that as similar and different we are, races [and yeah.. that is a stupid word for it.. race.. almost implies a different species] do exist. There are distinctions between groups of people, as insignificant as they may be. Just because the differences are small doesn&#39;t mean you can just pretend it doesn&#39;t exist.
But the "distinctions" are arbitrary&#33; There&#39;s no point at which you can say there&#39;s a trait that ALL people of one race have, and ALL members of another don&#39;t.

The differences aren&#39;t really differences at all; they&#39;re just gradations in the frequency of genetic traits.

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2006, 02:23 AM
As far as proving that race exists... Are you kidding me? o.O Not everyone is the same color, has the same genetics, or the same ethnic background... duh.

Every individual has different genetics, hair colour eye colour ect. So is every individual their own race? For all your racist rhetoric I really haven&#39;t seen any proof that race exists, please though, take my challenge and provide some, any, biological proof to back up your superstitious bullshit.


There is still, of course, the danger [I suppose in my eyes it&#39;s a danger.] that the blood of all the races in a communist state would mix

Your damn right that there&#39;s a danger of that, in fact I&#39;d say it&#39;s inevitable. Hell we should all fuck until we&#39;re the same colour :rolleyes: . People like you can watch from the lampposts if your neck hasn&#39;t snapped yet.

[Ol' Dirty]

Well, he&#39;s a mutha fucka.

:rolleyes:

[Si Pinto]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2006, 10:16 PM
I have strong Nordic blood, some Angl-Saxon blood, a bit of Pictiash blood and that&#39;s just the stuff I know of, .
Your a mongrel Jazzy pure and simple&#33;&#33;&#33; ;)

As am I, English, Scot, Irish and French....jeez what a mix :wacko: .

I was just about to answer this when I noticed they&#39;d been banned. :huh:

I&#39;ll be late for my own funeral me&#33;&#33;&#33; :D


Doh&#33;&#33;

[kjt1981]

do you mean "Culture" rather than "race"?

I too think it would be a shame if cultural differences were lost under a single world state. (Does nobody else think that this may be a drawback of world Communism?)

But the easy way around such an occurance is to be tolerant and receptive to other peoples beliefs, so long as we&#39;re sure we&#39;re all working for each other.

Right?

[Vicious_Vegan]

To say race doesn&#39;t exist is not to say that ethnicity doesn&#39;t exist; they&#39;re different things. Any value you hold in your heritage and culture isn&#39;t lost as we deem the term "race" nonexistant.
Race refers to four (or five) main groups of people. Africans, Mongoloids, Caucasoids, and Australian Aborigines. This implies that those from the pacific islands are the same as from the mainland. Chinese, Japanese, and Mongolians are all of the same race. Past this, there comes to a point when groups of people are totally left out of the "race" theory. This is the simple reason that race does not exist; it doesn&#39;t work.

[Wash Me]

hmmm... didnt we all start off with 2 people??
so basically the fact that there are different races right now is because of racial mixing..
or am i wrong?

[Vinny Rafarino]

Originally posted by Wash [email protected] 20 2006, 03:47 PM
hmmm... didnt we all start off with 2 people??
so basically the fact that there are different races right now is because of racial mixing..
or am i wrong?
You&#39;re wrong.

[Connolly]

The idea of accepting race is almost like accepting the bourgeois concept of class - were catagorizations are not really defined other than being relative to another.

Example - personal wealth

Jim 74466
Rosy 477
Thomas 124698
Mick 13564654564
zara 7545645645644564654564

etc etc.

The bourgeois concept of class catagorizes these numbers (infinite as they are, since nearly everyone has different wealth) into social classes.

Upper class
Middle upper class
Lower middle upper class
middle class.

There is nothing definite about any of it.

Just like this, races are created - since everyone is infinitly individual - it cant possibly be catagorized in any definite way.

With such irrationality - your brother is a different race, infact - everyone is their own race&#33;

The correct way to view the class system is by relation to production - which is quite definable.

Bourgeois
Petty Bourgeois
Proletariat

To accept the existance of race is to accept the existance of the bourgeois class system - as illogical as it is.

You cant accept one line of thought without accepting the other - you will have a rational contradiction on your hands.

That is why the concept of race is not compatible with a proper understanding of the class system - one is definite - the other is not.

[Dooga Aetrus Blackrazor]

Originally posted by Bill Shatner+Jul 20 2006, 10:52 PM--> (Bill Shatner @ Jul 20 2006, 10:52 PM)
Wash [email protected] 20 2006, 03:47 PM
hmmm... didnt we all start off with 2 people??
so basically the fact that there are different races right now is because of racial mixing..
or am i wrong?
You&#39;re wrong. [/b]
Here is why:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out_of_africa_theory

[EwokUtopia]

The beaury of the past? interesting....which period in the past are you reffering to? I assume it is sometime within the last thousand or so years, which represents about a thousandth of human history, the vast majority of it has been long forgotten. But it was forgotten because it wasnt recorded, like the last 2000 years were, therefore we will remember that era as long as we dont destroy the records. Whether or not they speak the same language or have the same skin tone is irrelevant. For instance, racialists claim that race mixing will be the end of the white race, but this is untrue, because "white" physical and cultural attributes will be passed down through the racially mixed offspring, and they will produce new cultures that will undoubtably be equally beautiful. There is a good instance of this in the language we are speaking right now. A very mongrelized toungue, english is, look at English history, the Old English language and culture no longer exists in its practical purety, but it has by no means been forgotten, and I assume you like the way english culture has been in the last thousand years (minus the imperialism, the english have produced good music and great literature, a commendable feat) but as it is now, the skin colour of the English people is going to change. Does this mean that the new, racially mixed people will be any less English than the old White Englishmen? Was Shakespeare any less English than whoever wrote Beowulf? Were the Old English people any less English than the Brythonic peoples who lived there before them? Culture is in constant change, anyone with an iota of historical knowledge knows this, and the time we live in right now is an era of change more rapid than we have ever experianced before. Holding on to the glory of the past with the technology of the future leads to bad things. Celebrating the past while embracing the future is the best way, as I am sure many Black people like Beowulf and many Japanese people like Shakespeare, so let every people of every culture celebrate the worlds cultural history while making ready for the beauties of the cultures to come. This is the world as I see it.

[Raisa]

Originally posted by Dooga Aetrus [email protected] 9 2006, 12:04 AM
Do you have any proof that race exists? Races are simply arbitrary categorizations of people.

Finally, geneticist Richard Lewontin, observing that 85 percent of human variation occurs within populations, and not between populations, argued that neither "race" nor "subspecies" was an appropriate or useful way to describe populations (Lewontin 1973).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race#The_reje...and_.22cline.22 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race#The_rejection_of_race_and_the_rise_of_.22popu lation.22_and_.22cline.22)

What does this mean? There is more of a genetic difference amongst two whites or two blacks than there is between a white and black individual.
Race is the same thing as species we just dont want to admit it.

[LSD]

What is that even supposed to mean?

[Raisa]

it meeans dogs have species, cats ahve species, birds do....but we are races?

Why?

Maybe a black person, and a white person and a chinese are a different species of the same animal, but our world is so fucked up we could never just call it what we call every other animal because we call epople from other countries Aliens.

Thats what I mean.

[Lord Testicles]

Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2006, 11:50 AM
Maybe a black person, and a white person and a chinese are a different species of the same animal, but our world is so fucked up we could never just call it what we call every other animal
No a black person, a white person and a chinese person, as you put it, are the same species of the same animal. Race is a concept of society that insists there is a genetic significance behind human variations in skin color that transcends out ward appearance. However, race has no scientific merit outside of sociological classification. There are no significant genetic variations within the human species to justify the division of “ races.” (http://www.cartage.org.lb/en/themes/sciences/LifeScience/HumanRaces/BiologyRace/BiologyRace.htm)

[Mujer Libre]

Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2006, 10:50 AM
it meeans dogs have species, cats ahve species, birds do....but we are races?

Why?

Maybe a black person, and a white person and a chinese are a different species of the same animal, but our world is so fucked up we could never just call it what we call every other animal because we call epople from other countries Aliens.

Thats what I mean.
Wow, that&#39;s wrong on so many levels. First of all, races would be sub-species, not species. What separates different species from one another is their inability to breed and produce fertile offspring. Clearly that doesn&#39;t apply to humans.

Additionally, the continuity between different &#39;races,&#39; as well as current genetic research pretty much rules out the idea that different races are sub-species.

So race is inherently unscientific, and is essentially a social classification.

[kifl]

and dogs mate with dogs and cats with cats and humans with humans

is this important i feel that mixing is the greatest thing about being human

[Tarik]

What a strange topic.But the concept of races is not used since the beginning of Marx theory.
But how we can talk about races when we know and we prove each day, that Human race came from the same place (somewhere between Tanzania and Ethiopia) and had evolved to create us (Homo Sapiens) and all the diversity between people.
And like Hubert Reeves say, Darwin had prove it, and so he had broken all racist (in one way) and religous ideas (in another way).