"white" Heritage

[MKS]

Is it wrong to be proud of an Anglo-Gaelic (white) heritage? I know it’s not "PC", but is being proud of your ancestors and your culture as a "white" North American wrong? Is it equivalent to racism or white-supremacy?

[Dooga Aetrus Blackrazor]

I'm inclined to believe that pride itself is foolish as all interactions are the result of past interactions. If you graduate first in your class, should you be proud? Would that have happened if you weren't born with intelligence? If you hadn't been raised properly, would it have happened? If whatever combination of genes/environmental interactions occured in your life hadn't happened, would the result still be the same? Undoubtably not.

On the specific issue of race, I think pride is particularly dangerous as pride often is associated with a sense of accomplishment. Being proud of what race you are is much worse than being proud of your race. However, the latter is still quite illogical as I point to paragraph A. However, it does, on another note, promote the view that one may have superior genes, which is also dangerous.

[Delta]

Despite the dubious merits of being proud of the "white race", I think is illogical for the following reason. What specifically would you be proud of? If you mention certain aspects of technology, advances in math, whatever, weren't these the result of insight from a few very bright scientists? Did the great majority of white people not understand it? Were there others in other cultures that did?

I think being proud of your race is a result of elevating all of those within your race to the level of the few that accomplished something spectacular, and often at the same time lowering all of those from other races to the worst stereotype.

Perhaps this example doesn't apply to you though. What exactly are you proud of?

[spanishinquisition]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2006, 04:18 AM
Despite the dubious merits of being proud of the \"white race\", I think is illogical for the following reason. What specifically would you be proud of? If you mention certain aspects of technology, advances in math, whatever, weren\'t these the result of insight from a few very bright scientists? Did the great majority of white people not understand it? Were there others in other cultures that did?

I think being proud of your race is a result of elevating all of those within your race to the level of the few that accomplished something spectacular, and often at the same time lowering all of those from other races to the worst stereotype.

Perhaps this example doesn\'t apply to you though. What exactly are you proud of?
Then can members of our own race be proud of our looks over other races, or is this racist?

[MKS]

I think you're confusing "racial pride" with recognition and pride of a persons heritage. My Anglo-Gaelic heritage, or someone’s Hindu heritage, or another person’s Inuit Heritage etc. I’m not proud simply because I’m white, I’m proud because of my ancestors accomplishments and their influence on my character.

Technically there is only one race; the Human Race; the subdivisions are ethnicities not races.

Back to my original question, is there something wrong with a Caucasian person being proud of their heritage? The recent responses have somewhat proved my point; they automatically jumped to the issue of “white pride”, a rallying call for the white supremacist movement.

[CrazyModerate]

Yes there is a problem with being proud of being white. Want to know why? Because there is no white ethnicity. Excluding the Americas, there are white people from Portugal to Central Asia. They are all different cultures. There is absolutely nothing you can attach to being "white" and there is nothing beyong being white other than the skin colour. Oh good fucking job you are white, clap hands! I don't have a problem with celebrating national heritage, but that isn't much more than a different flag, national anthem, a few dance styles, and a couple of unique dishes of food. Wowee! So yeah, cheer for your national football team and dance your highland fucking dance, but what else is there?

Explain, what is white culture? Getting hammered while listening to heavy metal? Walking around in a kilt rocking out on the bagpipes? Anglo-Gaelic pride. What a load.

I don't think you should be restricted, I don't think you are advocating white supremacy. I just think you are an enormous moron if you think there is anything to "anglo" heritage other than eating some beef, drinking ale, and discussing some battles or someting.

[bcbm]

I don't see a problem with celebrating specific parts of your heritage, but "white pride" is nonsense. There is no "Pan-European" identity to celebrate.

[CrazyModerate]

Originally posted by black banner black [email protected] 8 2006, 05:55 AM
I don't see a problem with celebrating specific parts of your heritage, but "white pride" is nonsense. There is no "Pan-European" identity to celebrate.
Agreeing with a Stalinist... hurts the soul...

[bcbm]

Originally posted by CrazyModerate+Jul 7 2006, 11:58 PM--> (CrazyModerate @ Jul 7 2006, 11:58 PM)
black banner black [email protected] 8 2006, 05:55 AM
I don't see a problem with celebrating specific parts of your heritage, but "white pride" is nonsense. There is no "Pan-European" identity to celebrate.
Agreeing with a Stalinist... hurts the soul... [/b]
I will CRUSH you.

[Janus]

It's like nationalist pride. It's not outrageously wrong but something that a committed leftist should avoid as your pride and loyalty are simply social or synthetic constructs.

[Raj Radical]

In addition to what has already be said, "pride" from minorities has come from a comradarie and solidarity built over the last few decades of uniting and battling slavery and achieving civil rights among other struggles (mainly) in the western states.

Im not saying you should be ashamed to be white, though, unless your a extreme right-wing racist, there really isent anything to celebrate as a white race.

[Abolish Communism]

If you graduate first in your class, should you be proud?

First, to discuss this crap. What bullshit. Of course one should feel proud of achieving such a goal. Hard work and effort should always be celebrated. This statement is the extreem of Communism: The notion that there is no indvidual ability, only accidental success. Pathetic. The perfect example of why society is and should Abolish Communism.

Now, to the point:

Never be proud of being a specific skin color. There is no white, or black, or brown, or yellow, or red. There is only the human race.

Be proud of being an American. (and for being Californian as well. :P )

Hope everyone had a happy Fouth of July!

A.C.

[Janus]

This statement is the extreem of Communism: The notion that there is no indvidual ability, only accidental success.
Whoever told you that individual ability did not exist? It exists now and will continue to exist in a communist society. Your parents, teachers, and supporters can only take you so far.

[CrazyModerate]

Being proud of being American is no different than being proud of your skin colour. Also, Capitalism DOES NOT support individual merit. Quite the contrary. Adam Smith believed people were nothing more than machines of production, and that the wealthy should be rewarded simply for investing and then earning a profit. He did not support hard workers or intelectualy innovators.

[Resist]

autonomous stalinist? thats an oxymoron.....

[CrazyModerate]

Its a joke. He is making fun of leftists who combine anarchism and autonomism with more authoritarian ideologies such as Stalinism and Maoism.

[bcbm]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2006, 12:22 AM
Its a joke. He is making fun of leftists who combine anarchism and autonomism with more authoritarian ideologies such as Stalinism and Maoism.
SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

Though I don't think anyone actually does that, I just think it is a fun and ridiculous idea. Like anarcho-monarchism (a la Tolkien). And besides, Stalin is HOT.

[spanishinquisition]

Why are you guys trashing this guy\'s anglo-celtic culture? He can be whatever the hell he wants its a free society. MKS, be proud of your culture.

And let me reiterate if i may my question with another:

If I choose to marry a European chick over any other race, am I racist for my choice? I think Europeans are cooler than all the other races. Am I being racist? (PS I am European but go out with lots of Asian chicks, more than European). Its just I want to marry European. So am I racist?

And I mean you must admit, Europeans are the best at music in the whole world. Is this racist or an observation of reality? Also, when watching the video hits/MTV,(which I have always LOVED doing), I always flip channels or leave the TV if a rapper or some hip-hop comes on. Invariably these guys are black. I can only think of four good Black artists, groups off the top of my head, Little Richard, Armstrong, BoneyM(love these guys) and whoever did Gangstas Paradise back in teh good old days. Frankly, any rap/hiphop upsets my viewing so I switch channels. Again, am I racist?

Also, why do black rappers treat their women like dirt? Its always their chicks in their videos shaking their booty or playing a central -always softcore porn- role with rap accompanyment. I think its unnecessary and the chicks doing it look like they feel low about it and its just to distract the viewer from the bad music. Is it racist to make this observation?

Its not I don\'t like other races, its just i find my observations irrefutatble? (MKS sorry to hijack your thread - anyone can ignore this if they like). My point is this, if I don\'t like rap/hip-hop AND recognise it as the preferred aspect of another races culture, am I a racist? I would hope not.

[Raj Radical]

When you say European, you mean white?

[Abolish Communism]

I like the name, "Black Banner, Black Gun". It would make a good song by the Misfits.

[bcbm]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2006, 12:28 AM
Why are you guys trashing this guy\'s anglo-celtic culture? He can be whatever the hell he wants its a free society. MKS, be proud of your culture.
Nobody is doing that, they're trashing "white pride."


If I choose to marry a European chick over any other race, am I racist for my choice?

I'd say choosing to marry someone based on their race first and other characteristics second is racist, yes.


And I mean you must admit, Europeans are the best at music in the whole world. Is this racist or an observation of reality?

Pushing something entirely subjective as an area of European superiority sounds more stupid than racist, but it certainly could be.


Also, why do black rappers treat their women like dirt? Its always their chicks in their videos shaking their booty or playing a central -always softcore porn- role with rap accompanyment. I think its unnecessary and the chicks doing it look like they feel low about it and its just to distract the viewer from the bad music. Is it racist to make this observation?

It isn't racist to make this observation since many from within that cultural context have made the same observation and critiqued it, but your intentions in pointing this out are probably entirely different, so I'd be very suspect of what you have to say.


Its not I don\'t like other races, its just i find my observations irrefutatble?

Most people find their own observations correct, that doesn't make them right or not racist.


My point is this, if I don\'t like rap/hip-hop AND recognise it as the preferred aspect of another races culture, am I a racist?

The preferred aspect? Hip-hop is just as popular, if not more so, within other cultures. Suburban white boys, for instance.


I like the name, "Black Banner, Black Gun". It would make a good song by the Misfits.

I saw "The Misfits" (aka Jerry Only and a bunch of hacks) once. It was pretty bad.

[Politically Incorrect]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2006, 03:03 AM
Is it wrong to be proud of an Anglo-Gaelic (white) heritage? I know it’s not "PC", but is being proud of your ancestors and your culture as a "white" North American wrong? Is it equivalent to racism or white-supremacy?
No, I don't think so, but many people would like to view such people as being racists, particularly if they're white.

Many claim that race doesn't exist or that it doesn't matter, but society tells another story altogether. Take organizations like La Raza and the NAACP, they're racially motivated organizations that work in the best interests of the races they represent. I don't have a problem with that. What I do have a problem with, is when a white organization is immediately condemned as racist or hateful. As a white I find that very insulting and reprehensible. Race either matters or it doesn't. One cannot deny the issue of race and then make race an issue when it suits their beliefs. It's hypocritical.

People are entitled to their opinions on race and racism. But to deny that race is not an important factor and that racial double-standards don't exist - is naive.

As far as pride goes, I don't think there's any list of what people should or should not take pride in whether it be their race or otherwise. Free thinking people are entitled to express pride in whatever they like as long as their pride doesn't infringe on the rights of others.

[ricardsju]

Like someone said we are all homo-sapiens, one race. The idea that pigment of skin somehow groups us into "races" is crazy, what colour are Asians?

I see ethnicity as mix of facial and bodily bone structure and pigment of skin, eyes and hair.

Someone said the word "Caucasian", well that into somewhat misuse as you can see:
Caucasian_race (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_race)
Caucasoid_N*groid_Mongoloid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasoid%2C_Negroid%2C_Mongoloid)
Proto-Indo-Europeans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-Europeans)


-

Even if I am Europen-Caucasian, this is still fucking funny (plus a lil bit offtopic):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOsco450zbo

[spanishinquisition]

He Ricaro, that was not funny. It was kinda dumb.

NOW THIS IS FUNNY: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsjOLYRJHdc...mexican%20prank (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsjOLYRJHdc&search=mexican%20prank)
HElp me I cant swim!!!!!!

And now its my turn to take the shit out of this whitey from Iceland! :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgdK8SWjJcg...=silvia%20night (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgdK8SWjJcg&search=silvia%20night)
Best post eurovision performace in recorded history. I love you Silvia, kiss kiss.

Black Banner Black Gun:



If I choose to marry a European chick over any other race, am I racist for my choice?



I\'d say choosing to marry someone based on their race first and other characteristics second is racist, yes.
That\'s unfair. id say 90% choose race first wouldnt you?


And I mean you must admit, Europeans are the best at music in the whole world. Is this racist or an observation of reality?



Pushing something entirely subjective as an area of European superiority sounds more stupid than racist, but it certainly could be.

It can only be racist if there is no such thing as race right? And if there was such a thing as race, certain racial differences might allow one race to be more musically gifted right?

[TC]

I think you're confusing "racial pride" with recognition and pride of a persons heritage. My Anglo-Gaelic heritage, or someone’s Hindu heritage, or another person’s Inuit Heritage etc. I’m not proud simply because I’m white, I’m proud because of my ancestors accomplishments and their influence on my character.

Thats pretty retarded. You have no reason to be 'proud' of your 'ancestors accomplishments', you have no direct relationship to them in any real socially relevant sense and you certaintly can take no credit, guilt, responsibility, and what not, for what they may have done.

In fact, its difficult to argue that you have any true genetic relationship to anyone more than a few generations back because everyone from each generation prior contributes half the chromsomes on average than the people from the next generation (your parents each contribute 23, your grandparents contribute less than 12 each, your great grand parents less than 6, your great great grandparents less than 3, etc) so if you're talking about people who lived five or six or seven or eight generations back, they more likely or not have no genetic similarity to yourself.

But even if they did, its irrelevent, they didn't know you, they didn't care about you, they didn't do anything for you.

Having "pride in your heretage" is a moronic form of cultural chauvenism.



QUOTE
If I choose to marry a European chick over any other race, am I racist for my choice?
I'd say choosing to marry someone based on their race first and other characteristics second is racist, yes.


I don't really think so, because "race" in the common usage sense is really about physical apperance, which is to say, that "race" as its used socially has a 1 to 1 coorespondence with physical apperance but it does not have a 1 to 1 with genetics or linage or anything else. This of course makes sense because race is a social concept, not a biological concept, and so like other matters of social identity, its assessed based on apperance.

When choosing sex partners, if we're honest, the first criteria that evaluate people on is physical apperance. So i don't think failing to find someone attractive or a suitable partner on the basis of their race is anymore inappropriate than failin to find someone attractive or suitable as a partner on the basis of their weight, height, build, etc.

After all, facial structure is the biggest way people are recognized as belonging to a socially defined race, and facial structure is also probably the biggest factor in determining how physically attractive you find someone of a normal build, so these are not really things that can be seperated out.


I mean, assuming it was a matter of apperance/sexual attraction and not some other reason like nationalism or wanting to 'preserve good genes' or some bullshit.

[bcbm]

I don't really think so, because "race" in the common usage sense is really about physical apperance, which is to say, that "race" as its used socially has a 1 to 1 coorespondence with physical apperance but it does not have a 1 to 1 with genetics or linage or anything else.

If you're going out in to the world of romance saying "I will only marry a European!" I don't think it has anything to do with looks. Discounting all non-Europeans right from the start is pretty suspicious to me.

[Abolish Communism]

I saw "The Misfits" (aka Jerry Only and a bunch of hacks) once. It was pretty bad.

The "old" Misfits were awsome. The new crowd sucks.

[Comrade-Z]

My point is this, if I don\'t like rap/hip-hop AND recognise it as the preferred aspect of another races culture, am I a racist? I would hope not.

Let's say you prefer bratwursts over tacos. Does that mean German culture is "superior" to Mexican culture? Hell no. It's just a matter of your own individual preference. And how can one even call bratwursts and tacos a part of German and Mexican culture, respectively, in the first place anyways? After all, aren't there a lot of non-Germans who eat bratwursts, and a lot of non-Mexicans who eat tacos?

Same thing with rap music.

[Dooga Aetrus Blackrazor]

Originally posted by Abolish [email protected] 8 2006, 06:18 AM

If you graduate first in your class, should you be proud?

First, to discuss this crap. What bullshit. Of course one should feel proud of achieving such a goal. Hard work and effort should always be celebrated. This statement is the extreem of Communism: The notion that there is no indvidual ability, only accidental success. Pathetic. The perfect example of why society is and should Abolish Communism.
All you did was "discuss" what I wrote. You didn't form an argument against it and simple took one opinion and used it to generalize all communists. My view was philosophical, by the way, and not something inherent in communist theory.

[spanishinquisition]

An interesting diversity of opinion here....


When choosing sex partners, if we\'re honest, the first criteria that evaluate people on is physical apperance. So i don\'t think failing to find someone attractive or a suitable partner on the basis of their race is anymore inappropriate than failin to find someone attractive or suitable as a partner on the basis of their weight, height, build, etc.
Indeed. Allegedly we select our partners based upon similarity of appreaance. There is one theory that says this is because those that look like us are more likely to be from the same tribe and therefore more trustworthy?


If you\'re going out in to the world of romance saying \"I will only marry a European!\" I don\'t think it has anything to do with looks. Discounting all non-Europeans right from the start is pretty suspicious to me.
What if I can\'t become lovesick over Asians? (I can by the way...)


Same thing with rap music.
But when europeans rap, its worth watching. I\'ll watch Eminem. Compare Daz from Eurovision to the black rapper of your choice. Its better - who here can deny it?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Je9-tIwLkec...h=daz%20sampson (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Je9-tIwLkec&search=daz%20sampson)

And l dont see any porn inferences either. Am I racist in preferring white rap?

[PRC-UTE]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2006, 03:03 AM
Is it wrong to be proud of an Anglo-Gaelic (white) heritage?
:wacko:

I think this may take the cake for weirdest post yet.

There's no 'white' race or culture. I've never heard someone describe themselves as Anglo-Gaelic, :D kinda like calling yourself a Vegitarian-Carnivore.

[ricardsju]

Originally posted by PRC-UTE+Jul 9 2006, 08:15 PM--> (PRC-UTE @ Jul 9 2006, 08:15 PM)
[email protected] 8 2006, 03:03 AM
Is it wrong to be proud of an Anglo-Gaelic (white) heritage?
:wacko:

I think this may take the cake for weirdest post yet.

There's no 'white' race or culture. I've never heard someone describe themselves as Anglo-Gaelic, :D kinda like calling yourself a Vegitarian-Carnivore.[/b]
Aren't most people from the UK somewhat a mix of the Gaelic, Angles, Saxons, Frisians and Jutes Groups ?

All European people are very much mongrels, its very hard to lay ethnicity down when the idea of countrys is removed. Most European-Americans wouldn't know where their heritage is from apart from the broad idea of Europe, the same could be said for African-Americans.

[bcbm]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2006, 01:59 AM

What if I can\'t become lovesick over Asians? (I can by the way...)

Allegedly we select our partners based upon similarity of appreaance.

I never got that memo.


There is one theory that says this is because those that look like us are more likely to be from the same tribe and therefore more trustworthy?

This makes no sense at all. When we still lived in tribes, people tried to find partners from outside the tribe in order to expand connections (and to avoid a shallow gene pool, though that one wasn't conscious).


What if I can\'t become lovesick over Asians? (I can by the way...)

I think absolutely denying the possibility that you could ever be attracted to someone of another race is absurd, if not racist.


Am I racist in preferring white rap?

No, but your "everything they can do, we can do better!" line is making me a bit skeptical.

[EwokUtopia]

You should only be proud to be white, black, brown, yellow, green, whatever if you like perticular attributes of your appearence. For instance, I have very blonde hair, which I think is cool because not many people have it, so in that respect I am happy to be caucasian I suppose, but that is merely a physical vanity. Its not like I would give vocal support of my white pride or whatever, because it is more or less limited to the superficial happiness with my hair colour, which, beyond looking in the mirror is more or less useless. To celebrate your hair is one thing, celebrating your blood is another. White pride cant stem from red blood, and you should celebrate (or despide) your individual ancestors rather than the ethnic backgrounds they come from. Celebrating race based on blood implies a poor understanding of your own geneology. For instance, I have an aboriginal ancestor of the Miami people way back in the 17th century, but I dont associate her with a greater aboriginal pride, as this takes away from the woman herself. I dont know her real name, but the Frenchman who impregnated her (resulting eventually in me, so im not completely bitter about it, but still, he was somewhat of a jerk) named her "Elizabeth Sauvages", or Elizabeth the Savage. This really takes away from my French pride.

White pride in general is bullshit. Many whitely proud people hate Jews, while the Ashkenazim are by all means white, so they are proud of their own definition of white, which is increasingly becoming suburban american white, which, despite the fear of being labelled an elitist, I will say is a complete abomination of all western culture.

Be proud of who you are, and the ancestors from which you stem, be they male, female, white, black, whatever. Do not confuse them with the colour of their skin. 100 years hence, I would like to be remembered for more than being some white guy, which is what racial pride turns ancestors into.

[RedAnarchist]

edited

[Forward Union]

But we all know white pride is a load of bullshit, because for all it's seemingly fairly reasonable demands, it is nothing more than an attempt to repackage white supremacy in a more respectable way.

When people start going on about white pride, nine times out of ten they are talking about white supremacy. Which is why politically incorrect was banned.