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RedCeltic
7th July 2006, 18:42
Last night I had an interesting discussion. I work the night shift (12AM 9AM) at a residence for the developmentally disabled. Anyway, I started getting into a conversation with this woman from Haiti about well you know one of those old person discussions about how kids today dont know the value of. Bla ..bla..bla ( Keep in mind we are both in our 30s. )

Anyway, for some reason we started to talk about how there is so much crap in TV today and how there is just so many TV stations. I mentioned how growing up working class in New York we had one TV with 13 channels if the cable was working. When the dial broke off you had to use a pair of pliers of vice grips in order to change the station. Back in the day you also had UHF which meant that you could if you wanted to broadcast your own TV station. (Which nobody ever did except the University because it was 1) expensive to buy equipment and 2) the stations came out fuzzy. But still, it was an option.) I dont know if there are stations broadcasting on UHF anymore its now mainly used for cell phones.

Anyway, when I asked my co-worker what TV was like in Haiti ( Keep in mind that Im 35 and she is 39) She said, I never saw a television until I came to the United States. When I was a child, we lived in a very small hut; there was no electricity, no indoor plumbing, or anything of that nature. We entertained ourselves after the workday by telling stories. I remember my grandfather, grandmother, and great grand mother all living in the same one room hut with us and would tell us stories they knew and heard from their parents.

I was quite frankly awestruck. I mean growing up the bedroom I shared with my younger brother may have been just as big as her whole house that she shared with a large extended family. She really does show me the high value of family and hard work. (She works two full time jobs, one daytime one nighttime and sleeps 3 hours in between.)

Somehow our conversation turned to food, I dont know how or when, yet I remember mentioning to her that I once worked with a fellow from Guatemala years ago who told me that he could not drink the milk produced in our country because it was not healthy and tainted with chemicals. I admitted that at the time I was quite young and I didnt know of such things that they did to the bovine in this country.

She told me that when she lived in Haiti that they lived from the earth and that everything they ate was natural. They did not eat canned meat, if they wanted fish they fished for it, if they wanted vegetables they grew them and harvested them. And when she came to this country (United States) she was amazed at how much chemicals were put into such a simple product as bread. She was disgusted at how much food people ate out of cans, and how milk in our country seemed to be a sickly substitute for the real thing she knew in Haiti.

I wonder She asked reflectively, What kind of a society are we raising here in America? I have seen children with C or D cup breasts in America who are only 11 or 12. I dont remember seeing such things growing up in Haiti. She said. I confirmed her suspicions that this was all fairly new to our diet by telling her that few children our age developed as quickly.

It is interesting; up until now I had always considered organic foods to be somewhat bourgeois. However hearing what she has to say about the difference between life in Haiti and the United States, now truly has me worried for our children.

Janus
8th July 2006, 01:09
up until now I had always considered organic foods to be somewhat bourgeois.:blink:

Organic farming is simply an agricultural method that relies on ecosystem management and organic/biological methods rather than synthetic ones (i.e. fertilizer). How is that bourgeois? Organic farms are generally small-scale as opposed to the large corporation ones.

Basically, organic farming encourages sustainable farming methods that take local conditions into account, etc.

Also, there is a difference between putting synthetic substances in a product and a genetically modified organism. The latter is much more advanced and "natural" as it requires tiddling with the genetic make-up of organisms. As a result, it is not really widespread yet.

RedCeltic
8th July 2006, 02:28
Organic farming is simply an agricultural method that relies on ecosystem management and organic/biological methods rather than synthetic ones (i.e. fertilizer). How is that bourgeois?

Organic food is expensive compaired to supermarket stuff. Working class people know the value of a dollar.

Janus
8th July 2006, 02:33
In America yes because organic farms are small scale and do not have the same weight that the larger food corporations do.

But in countries such as Cuba or Haiti, where fertilizers, pesticides, and other industrial methods are not very feasible, organic foods dominate the market place.

My mistake though, I thought you were talking about organic farming itself or something to that degree.

Janus
8th July 2006, 02:37
She told me that when she lived in Haiti that they lived from the earth and that everything they ate was natural. They did not eat canned meat, if they wanted fish they fished for it, if they wanted vegetables they grew them and harvested them. And when she came to this country (United States) she was amazed at how much chemicals were put into such a simple product as bread. She was disgusted at how much food people ate out of cans, and how milk in our country seemed to be a sickly substitute for the real thing she knew in Haiti.
My mother is like that as well. Of course, there is a correlation between the frequent use of these products and problems such as cancer, etc.

Your worry is a common one and I think that many people these days are calling for general sustained development in industry, farming, and other aspects of life.

RedCeltic
8th July 2006, 03:25
I should have been more clear, I worked for a long time with Green party people that would tell very poor people that they need to buy organic foods because they were healthy. These Green party people themselves knew nothing about struggling to live on minimum wage. So for me, I did not see the value in organic foods beyond that it was more expensive.

Janus
8th July 2006, 03:34
I understand your sentiments but unless the Green Party is profiting from that, which I doubt as organic farms are small scale, I don't see any major problems with that.

I've always found that the organic foods from the local farmer's market is generally cheaper and fresher than the supermarket stuff. Some of it wasn't totally organic and natural but it was a lot better than the food from the large corporations. Maybe it's different in your area.

RedCeltic
8th July 2006, 03:48
lol... trust me... i've seen an "organic loaf of bread" go for $5 while a loaf of white bread full of chemicals go for 99cents. I'm mainly talking about in a city here...

Trust me when I tell you my friend.. working class people only want to put food on the table.

Dr. Rosenpenis
8th July 2006, 05:02
Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2006, 06:34 PM
In America yes because organic farms are small scale and do not have the same weight that the larger food corporations do.

But in countries such as Cuba or Haiti, where fertilizers, pesticides, and other industrial methods are not very feasible, organic foods dominate the market place.

My mistake though, I thought you were talking about organic farming itself or something to that degree.
I think you're confusing "third world" for "unindustrialized"
I assure you that chemical pesticides and fertilizers are available in both Cuba and Haiti nowdays

Most third world countries probably don't have widespread advanced irrigation techniques and in some (such as Haiti), the best chemical fertilizers and pesticides may not be popularly available, although surely there are some modern farms with advanced equipment and methods. These countries produce raw materials used to make some of the finest products in the world... in great quantities. In addition to sustaining major urban centers of their own.

Some third-world countries, however, may have laws against 'the use of genetically modified seeds. Like Brazil, for example.

Dr. Rosenpenis
8th July 2006, 05:27
Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2006, 07:49 PM
lol... trust me... i've seen an "organic loaf of bread" go for $5 while a loaf of white bread full of chemicals go for 99cents. I'm mainly talking about in a city here...

Trust me when I tell you my friend.. working class people only want to put food on the table.
Absolutely.

Regardless of whether this stuff is cheaper, I do not believe it to be superior. Like in every field, capitalism has spurred new technology and improvements for the purpose of profits, generally through eficiency. There's no reason why we should dismiss all these advancements, just because they're currently propagated by the bastards. Farming without any pesticides and fertlizer is basically an impossibility. Organic food is for uber-backwards agrarian communities and liberal yuppies.

Janus
8th July 2006, 09:07
I think you're confusing "third world" for "unindustrialized"
That's generally one of the requirements for a nation to be labelled third world.


I assure you that chemical pesticides and fertilizers are available in both Cuba and Haiti nowdays
I know. Cuba has had fertilizersand pesticides for a long time due to their contact with the USSR. In fact, they used huge amounts of it, comparable to the US. :o

However, after the collapse of the USSR, all of this changed in one day and Cuba had to quickly switch to organic farming. Both countries have access to fertilizer and pesticides, but choose not to use it because it would create a dependency on it.


I'm mainly talking about in a city here...
I see. Well, sadly, there ain't much that can be done unless you can afford a trip to more rural areas. :(
Farmer's markets exist in all but the largest metropolitan areas.

But I can tell you that the foods don't cost anywhere that much and are generally cheaper than supermarket brands.