Workers Control In The Russian Revolution

[rebelworker]

Here is an excellent read on th state of the workers movement during the russian revolution and how the Bolsheviks betrayed it by forcing centralisation creating a new ruling class.

The Bolsheviks and Workers Control (http://www.spunk.org/texts/places/russia/sp001861/bolintro.html) by Maurice Brinton

[Redmau5]

Same old anti-Bolshie crap. :rolleyes:

[rebelworker]

So what may I ask is your problem with the concept of WORKERS CONTROL?

And why do you suport a new ruling class over average working people?

Do you think this is revolutionary?

PS do you now or have you ever worked for a living?

What about your familiy?

This section is for learning, if you have something to addd to the debate, please do so.
If you just have your head up your ass please dont turn this thread into a dogmatic defence of Leninism.

[Redmau5]

So what may I ask is your problem with the concept of WORKERS CONTROL?

I don't have a problem with workers' control. Of course I don't. I just reject the idea that workers' had to no control in the early Soviet regime. Of course it degenerated into a bureaucratic shithole, but I do not believe that Lenin spent years writing about and pushing for revolution just so he could create a new ruling-class.


And why do you suport a new ruling class over average working people?

Do you honestly believe Lenin and the Bolsheviks seized power with the intention of creating a new ruling class? The USSR did become a charicature, but I don't believe Lenin hatched some evil plot to pull the wool over the workers' eyes so he could become an all-powerful dictator and establish a new bureaucratic regime.


Do you think this is revolutionary?

Initially it was yes.


PS do you now or have you ever worked for a living?

Well I'm a student so I work part-time.

[rebelworker]

Its not about what lenin thought was going to happen, obviously he felt eventualy the state would wither away and workers control could reign.

The point is this dint happen, couldnt happen, and will never happen if you try and build communism this way. The workers will only learn to govern by govening. Any attempt at erecting a mangerial body to coordinate will undercut this process and give way to a new ruling class. This is what the book in a very well documented maner points out and this is why I wonder if you have even read it.

The fact that you are a student reenforces my point that the middle class can not be allowed to rule on our behalf. In the bolshevik model of revolution you will get a say, I most likely wont.

Read the book, I dont think Lenin was the devil but there are irreperable structural flaws with his vison of revolution. I dont hate trots, I used to be one, but the only way communism is possible is through direct and immediate workers control of the economy.

[Redmau5]

The fact that you are a student reenforces my point that the middle class can not be allowed to rule on our behalf. In the bolshevik model of revolution you will get a say, I most likely wont.

Are you calling me middle-class?

[rebelworker]

Well, in a bit of an angry mood I implied that if you are going to collage you are probably headed for the middle class or political elite, which is only partially true.

The point i was trying to make is that the defenders of Party dictatorship are almost always "professional" revolutionaries, as oposed to avergage working people.
The result of this theroy is that working people get again dominated by a new political/burocratic class, made up mostly of educated political activists and oportunists from the old ruling class. This was entierly the case in the russian revolution and I think its inherint in the lack of real class analysis in Bolshevik theory and most of its proponents.

If you are infact working class, and will continue to be after graduation, then I apologise and encourage you to read Brintons excellent history and see the implications his critique has for our class.

Good day.