The problem with Capitalism is not profits but where the pro

[RAM]

It is ture. We should not get rid of profits but re-direct them into the enviroment and workers!

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

I don't think we ever wanted to simply do away with profits. Our goal is to remove the bourgeoisie from its current position where, with capital, they are able to use the labor of the worker for their own gain. We wish to claim the product of one's labor, for the worker. And the fact that the means of production work in the function of generating capital for the bourgeoisie, is precissely what is wrong with capitalism.

[peaccenicked]

The redistribution of wealth is better done when the cake is bigger.

[sc4r]

And your point is ? I doubt there is a single socialist anywhere on earth who disagrees with the notion of maximising the size of the cake so long as it is cake we actually want not merely volume of cheap cack cake which costs us things we actually do want to produce.

Profit simply means the surplus available after all neccessary production costs have been paid. The whole point of socialism is to redirect those profits more equitably not to reduce them.

For the capitalist, Profit TO HIM means subtracting the costs of workers along woth all other neccessary production costs. To a socialist those are obviously excluded from production costs and all is redirected as workers profit.

Profit equals the extra amount you get out from applying expertise in some way to a process. Nobody want to reduce it as such, although in fact viewed from the perspective of all people rather than the individual owner Capitalist systems do in fact reduce it (because the capitalist IS NOT interested in maximising overall profit (benefit) only in maximising the amount of that profit that accrues to him).

Prisoners dilemmas, free Riders, and Negative externalities abound in capitalist systems. This means that the total benefit is reduced precisely because to increase it means that SOMEBODY (the capitalist) would have to take a reduction in THEIR PERSONAL SHARE of the total profit.

The Cake measured as use value (the only overall measure that actually makes sense) is always greater in Socialist systems. Its a pure capitalist fabrication to suggest otherwise and cant be backed up by anything except blind faith and dogma.

If u tell me that 'america produces more than Cuba or Korea etc.' without analysing why that might be, what initial start condition prevalil, and what the negative externalities are, then I may scream loud enough for them to hear me in Washington

best wishes.

[Fiskebat]

Yeah i think i can see ur point RAM.

The Swedish, where i live, society has declined so much the latest 20-30 years, and we here in the north pay the highest taxes in the world and are not (as we should at all) near the 5 top standars of for example Health and school!

In thoose situatuions u ask urself WHERE THE HELL IS THE MONEY GOING???

Im begining to wonder if its not going right down some of thoose fat capitalistic suits pockets, beacuse i actually cant explain it in some other way!

[RAM]

Quote: from Fiskebat on 11:52 pm on May 17, 2003
Yeah i think i can see ur point RAM.

The Swedish, where i live, society has declined so much the latest 20-30 years, and we here in the north pay the highest taxes in the world and are not (as we should at all) near the 5 top standars of for example Health and school!

In thoose situatuions u ask urself WHERE THE HELL IS THE MONEY GOING???

Im begining to wonder if its not going right down some of thoose fat capitalistic suits pockets, beacuse i actually cant explain it in some other way!



Thank you