Bnp Got 7% Of The Vote

[ItalianCommie]

The far Right in Britain is advancing. The BNP got over 7% of the vote. Why? Disillusionment with the Labour Party, mostly. Then why not vote for a radical leftist party of some sort? Opinions?

[Si Pinto]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2006, 04:43 PM
The far Right in Britain is advancing. The BNP got over 7% of the vote. Why? Disillusionment with the Labour Party, mostly. Then why not vote for a radical leftist party of some sort? Opinions?
1 - Their isn't a radical leftist party nearly as well organised as the BNP.

2 - If there was, the capitalist media would tell everyone not to vote for them.

3 - 7% out of 100% is not very much, but when 70 to 75% out of that 100% are not bothering to vote at all, such 'minorities' can win.

The populace is not just disillusioned with the Labour Party, it's disillusioned with politics in general. That's why the turnouts are so low.

Again, the capitalist media together with the totally 'detached from reality' parliament is responsible for this apathy, and seems to be happy to keep it so.

[Delta]

Here in the U.S. I vote for the Green party, despite the fact that they won't ever win. I'd rather make a vote on principles rather than sacrifice my principles so that I can vote for a winner. Maybe I'll be helping the Republicans win, but the Democrats are only marginally better.

[bunk]

It's actually a sort of good sign, people are turning for answers from other places, they have no faith in the normal parties. But, mostly it's a very dangerous situation, that the BNp can get more power

[rouchambeau]

Then why not vote for a radical leftist party of some sort?

Because participation in modern democracy only serves to further disorient the working class. Italian proletarians after WWI almost succeded in the creation of communism when they fought fascists AND democrats. They only failed when they compromised with the democrats who used their power to put down the rest of the revolutionary movement and put the fascists in power.

[JC1]

7% out of 100% is not very much

Becuase your orginization command's a mandate larger then 7 % right ?

7 % is pretty fuckin huge.

[Dooga Aetrus Blackrazor]

Britain is a society structured in a way that allows parties like the BNP to gain power. What external forces are fueling the hatred and irrationality that is gaining the BNP support? Those are the kinds of questions that need to be asked. Voting for another suit or sending an honorable man to a land of corruption is hardly something I want to do.

If you voted, and the BNP won anyway, would you accept that decision? I would like to think not. If the answer is no, why vote?

[rouchambeau]

Really, what's the big deal? They're capitalist just like all of the other parties.

[Marion]

Where's your 7% figures from? Across all seats in the 2005 general election the BNP got 0.7% of the vote. They stood in only a relatively few number of seats (and may have averaged 7% in these, not sure) and got one or two good results but nowhere near winning a seat.

[Si Pinto]

Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2006, 08:23 AM
Where's your 7% figures from? Across all seats in the 2005 general election the BNP got 0.7% of the vote. They stood in only a relatively few number of seats (and may have averaged 7% in these, not sure) and got one or two good results but nowhere near winning a seat.
They have won some seats on councils over the last few years, but at best (i.e in the seats they won) their percentage was 18% - 20% of those who voted (80% didn't vote at all).

They are a minority party taking part in a minority sport in Britain - Politics

[Vanguard1917]

In which election did the BNP get 7% of the vote? Not the general election. The BNP gets roughly the same amount of votes as the other marginal parties (the Greens, Respect and UKIP). Interestingly, these parties all stand on single-issue platforms: Greens - 'environment'; Respect - anti-war; UKIP - anti-EU; and the BNP - anti-immigrationg. All this shows is that the electorate is increasingly fragmented and cut-off from the main parliamentary parties, and these emerging single-issue parties are taking advantage of this fragmentation.

However, this doesn't mean that votes for the BNP amount to a far-right threat in Britain - in the same way that votes for Respect do not amount to a socialist threat.

We should also point out that the BNP is not responsible for anti-immigration sentiment in Britain. The responsibility for this lies with the British political elite and the mainstream media. Also, if the three main parties of British parliament and the media did not repeatedly blow-up the BNP as being one of the 'biggest threats to British society', people would barely take notice of this minuscule party.

[Dreckt]

A scary development really. In my own country a right-leaning anti-immigrants party is the largest one outside the parliment. Many think they can be voted into parliment in the next elections...
:angry:

[Global_Justice]

Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2006, 02:03 AM

7% out of 100% is not very much

Becuase your orginization command's a mandate larger then 7 % right ?

7 % is pretty fuckin huge.
well the population is 60 million. under 18's don't vote so take away about 15 million. of the 45 million adults, there will be a number ineligible to vote. of the ones eligible to vote, only about 50% do. so it's not 7% of the 60 mill population, it's 7% of the vote, so less than 500,000 i think.

[bolshevik butcher]

Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2006, 04:38 AM
Really, what's the big deal? They're capitalist just like all of the other parties.
They are not 'just captialist', the tory party is 'just capitalist', the liberal democrats are 'just capitalist', the BNP is out and out facist. Was the Nazi party 'just capitliast'? It is worrying to see the BNP gain so many votes. I think that as recession kicks in we could well see as well as a growth in the left a growth in the right as people look to radical solutions for there problems. It is up to the elft to organise anto-facist movments as we cannot count on the capitalist state to do it, only the working class can defeat facism.

[Si Pinto]

Originally posted by Clenched [email protected] 6 2006, 07:30 PM
It is up to the left to organise anti-facist movments as we cannot count on the capitalist state to do it, only the working class can defeat facism.
Agreed, and good point.

Capitalist's don't mind right wing party's because it allows them to say things like "see what you get if you don't vote for us!!!".

Most far right parties are inherently capitalist at their core anyway.

We on the left have to organise and unify our resources....pool our efforts...stop squabbling amongst ourselves and get going, otherwise we run the risk of far-right MP's soon.

I've never seen the left in the UK looking so disorganised as it is now!!

[bolshevik butcher]

Yes, I think that we could pull together to fight facism. The ruling class uses facism as it's last resort and so cannot be rellied upon to put up a real defence. Afterall, the origianl fadist dictators, Hitler, Mussolini and Franco were all backed by their respective national bourgeoirse.

'Fascism is capitalism in decay'-Lenin

[hoopla]

7% is alot!

[ItalianCommie]

What were the actual results? I remember reading a worrying article in the guardian.

In Italy we have a far right party, Alleanza Nazionale, a classic fascist party in disguise. They've got all the big and bloody capital of italian industrialists and the Catholic Church behind them. They got 12% of the vote. Despicable. They want rehabilitate the old fascist combatants with equal status with the partisans, mostly communist. Bastardi. :angry:

The left in Italy is pretty well organized, we've always had to cope with those nasty people and the widespread ignorance in Italy. The fight goes on. We survived the 80s, although quite a large chunk of the communist left became infamously socialdemocratical. Ds. They live in eternal contradiction. Crumbums. Renegades. :lol: :rolleyes: :P However

What the fuck is going on with the left in the UK? You've got to organize, or temporarily unite, for our own sake as communists! We're bloody wallowing in our impotence! Form a federation of communists, or something.. we've got to save humanity from servitude to the capitalist! Britain is becoming a heavily-capitalist-BigBrotherFascist-State! What the hell happened to Vanessa Redgrave and the WRP, the CPGB, the SWP? We've become close to pathetic! Leaving the field open to the extreme right!?! YOU JUST CANNOT DO THAT!

[Si Pinto]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2006, 10:18 AM
What were the actual results? I remember reading a worrying article in the guardian.

In Italy we have a far right party, Alleanza Nazionale, a classic fascist party in disguise. They've got all the big and bloody capital of italian industrialists and the Catholic Church behind them. They got 12% of the vote. Despicable. They want rehabilitate the old fascist combatants with equal status with the partisans, mostly communist. Bastardi. :angry:

The left in Italy is pretty well organized, we've always had to cope with those nasty people and the widespread ignorance in Italy. The fight goes on. We survived the 80s, although quite a large chunk of the communist left became infamously socialdemocratical. Ds. They live in eternal contradiction. Crumbums. Renegades. :lol: :rolleyes: :P However

What the fuck is going on with the left in the UK? You've got to organize, or temporarily unite, for our own sake as communists! We're bloody wallowing in our impotence! Form a federation of communists, or something.. we've got to save humanity from servitude to the capitalist! Britain is becoming a heavily-capitalist-BigBrotherFascist-State! What the hell happened to Vanessa Redgrave and the WRP, the CPGB, the SWP? We've become close to pathetic! Leaving the field open to the extreme right!?! YOU JUST CANNOT DO THAT!
Friend I couldn't agree with you more.

If I give you the names and addresses of the multitude of different leftist, socialist and anti-fascist organisations in the UK will you tell them that please?

You'd think they'd be able to work it out for themselves though.

It ain't rocket science.

[ItalianCommie]

Exactly. That's why the PRC now is in the government in Italy, you have to have a credible appeal of some sort. Never leave the field to the right-wing. Sure, it's not class war or real revolution in the strict sense of the term, but I think that maybe it's a bit soon for that, there is just no chance of victory in the immediate future. Socialism in one country fails miserably against the power of the globalized capitalist system. Plus, I don't believe that capitalism will just simply fall on itself. They are devious enough to stop that from happening any time soon.

Well sure, i'll do that.. Or you do it, they might think I'm just some lousy italian..

[Hate Is Art]

I read an article on this, I assume you are refering to the recent(ish) local council elections, in which the BNP won a large number of council seats in Dagenham I believe.

Basically their campaign was founded on lies, eg that other councils were sending immigrants to Dagenham to be housed and this was preventing local (sic) people from obtaining housing. Which is a complete fabrication of the truth.

Also they have regularly failed to turn up to council meetings, the leader of the Dagenham BNP sect was revealed to have starred in gay pornography and written gay erotic poems.

They are ridiculous, and are no threat.

xx

[Comrade-Z]

Who cares if the BNP got 7% of the vote? After all, voting in bourgeois elections doesn't determine policy and social progression (the class struggle, expressed through the direct actions of each side, do, of course). Now, if the BNP was getting involved in a lot of direct action and was building a large street presence, then I'd be worried.

But as it is now, even if the BNP got elected, if they were met with irate and militant opposition to their fascist policies by 80% of the population, then what could they do without being overthrown? They'd be forced to change their policies to make them more palatable to most people, just like any other party when confronted with massively oppositional direct action from the masses. What you have to watch out for is if they have a mass movement of direct action behind them, like the Nazis and fascists did in Germany and Italy, respectively.

And as far as 70-75% of the electorate not voting--that's a good thing!

[ItalianCommie]

I don't really know what the situation for right wing movements in the UK is, I'm Italian, but what I do know is that the Left there is just disorganized beyond imagination. That is a matter of fact. Wether it's bourgeois elections or not it doesn't count. You need an organized apparatus like a party or something able to mobilize a certain amount of people, against the Labour Party. Communists in the Uk must focus on eroding the left of Labour in able to gain militants(unlike voters). Not the CPGB sniping at the SWP or any crap like that. You need a dialectical process. THE UK DOESN'T EVEN HAVE THAT! It's just crap elevated to the highest number! :angry:

[Red Polak]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2006, 06:16 PM
I don't really know what the situation for right wing movements in the UK is, I'm Italian, but what I do know is that the Left there is just disorganized beyond imagination. That is a matter of fact. Wether it's bourgeois elections or not it doesn't count. You need an organized apparatus like a party or something able to mobilize a certain amount of people, against the Labour Party. Communists in the Uk must focus on eroding the left of Labour in able to gain militants(unlike voters). Not the CPGB sniping at the SWP or any crap like that. You need a dialectical process. THE UK DOESN'T EVEN HAVE THAT! It's just crap elevated to the highest number! :angry:
Don't snipe at the the SWP? do you know what they're doing?!!! I think a major problem in the UK is the number of kiddies recruited by the SWP each year who are only interested whilst at uni. Over the summer all is forgotten when they go touring the world on daddy's credit card. These are NOT communists, they don't believe in revolution, only reformation. They are also pretty much a sister organization to the respect party. Recent behaviour of certain members of respect (regarding a black Jewish labour party member) will soon tell you a great deal about these new "ultra-valuable" members of reformist respect's views regarding discrimination on both racial and religious grounds. :angry: The SWP's antics put off real communists from getting involved on the left.


Anyway, you might find this interesting:
http://www.cpgb.org.uk/worker/633/critique.htm

and the original letter which prompted it (link given in that link).



and on thread:
the BNP got 20% and higher in some areas. Now that is worrying. :( However, history has shown us that with a rise in right wing popularity, the left usually rises too.

[Whitten]

I dont know where this 7% figure is from, but its certainly not their nation-wide result.


Really, what's the big deal? They're capitalist just like all of the other parties.

Capitalists are evil. Nazis are beyond thought in the 21st century.

The rise of the BNP would in some ways be benificial. It would rally support for extreme reaction from the left (hell even most of the current-right would probably be willing to suport revolt against the BNP). It would make teh revolution go down alot easier for the general populace.