Us Plans For Post-castro Cuba

[CubaSocialista]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/americas/06/...stro/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/americas/06/30/after.castro/index.html)

Report: Get ready for post-Castro Cuba
'The U.S. government will need to be prepared well in advance'

From Elise Labott
CNN Washington Bureau
Friday, June 30, 2006; Posted: 11:09 p.m. EDT (03:09 GMT)

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WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The U.S. should have assistance in Cuba within weeks of President Fidel Castro's death to support a transitional government and help move the country toward democracy, a government report recommends.

The report was prepared by the Commission for Assistance to a Free Cuba, an interagency group co-chaired by Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Commerce Secretary Carlos Gutierrez, a Cuban-American.

President Bush created the commission in 2003 to "help hasten and ease Cuba's democratic transition," according to its Web site.

The report, obtained by CNN in advance of its scheduled release next week, is billed as a strategic plan to promote democracy on the island once Castro is no longer in power. (Watch how the U.S. has designs on Cuba after Castro -- 1:17)

"The U.S. government will need to be prepared well in advance to help in the event assistance is requested by the Cuban transition government," the report says.

Castro has been in power since 1959 and has shown no signs of stepping down despite being 80 and despite rumors of his deteriorating health. Castro's brother, Raul, is believed to be his successor.

The United States and Cuba, which have no formal diplomatic relations, are constantly at odds, but tensions between the two countries have increased in the past year.

Earlier this month, the Cuban government cut off electricity to the U.S. interests section in Havana, the capital. The State Department said requests to have the power restored went unanswered for several days.

Cuba was accused by the State Department of engaging in "bully tactics" to thwart pro-democracy efforts in the country.

The Bush administration already has tightened the four-decades-old U.S. embargo of the island, increased Radio Marti news broadcasts into Cuba, curtailed visits home by Cuban-Americans and limited the amount of money Cuban-Americans can send to relatives.

In September, Bush appointed Caleb McCarry, a former Republican staff member of the House International Relations Committee, as Cuba transition coordinator -- or point man on regime change in Cuba. The position was among the commission's earlier recommendations.

While noting that Castro has plans for a successor, the commission says the message that the U.S. would assist a democratic Cuba could bolster democratic forces in the country and create an environment where democracy and economic reforms could thrive.

Lending a hand with health care and clean water would be good starts, the report says.

The report also calls on the the U.S. "to put in place preparations that will ensure that the U.S. will be in a position to provide technical assistance in the first two weeks after a determination that a Cuban transition is under way."

That would include legal experts to help with elections. Training judges and police would be essential, according to the report.

The six months immediately following Castro's death or ouster would be key to determining U.S. success in the mission, the report says.

"This critical 180-day period could mean the difference between a successful transition period and the stumbles and missteps that have slowed other states in their transitions toward democracy," the report says.

It calls for an $80 million "democratic fund" for two years to strengthen civil society, boost opposition to Castro's regime and facilitate the free flow of information. It recommends at least $20 million a year for democracy programs "until the dictatorship ceases to exist."

The report recommends offering a substantial aid package to the transitional government if it met certain criteria under the 1996 Helms-Burton Act.

Those criteria would include freeing all political prisoners, legalizing all political activity, conducting democratic elections and establishing a free press.

The State Department had no comment on the report because it hasn't been officially released, but officials did say the report could change.

Cuba expert Philip Peters of the Lexington Institute, a Virginia-based think tank, said normalization of relations between Cuba and the United States could take time.

"Despite extensive planning for a full transition, it seems more likely that after Fidel Castro's departure, we will see a socialist successor government that will decide whether, where, and how fast to reform the policies it inherits," Peters wrote in a recent column.

"Washington will then have to decide how to use U.S. influence to promote positive change," said Peters, a former State Department appointee during the Reagan and first Bush administrations.

He noted that U.S. influence "will be limited by decades of policies that have blocked communication between our peoples and governments, and by the all-or-nothing posture that the Helms-Burton law imposes on U.S. diplomacy."

[Karl Marx's Camel]

Castro has been in power since 1959 and has shown no signs of stepping down despite being 80

His birthday is August 13th, 1926 no?



Anyways, the Cuban exiles, some of them might be good people, but most people don't care about Cuba. Some of them call Cuba "that fucking island". When Cubans in Cuba die in car accidents, they comment "so what, people die in the U.S. all the time". And the big capitalists, why do they want a liberalist Cuba? Because then they can sell their goods and expand their marketing of their products. They have said this themselves.

You know, if Fidel had stepped down sooner and maintained himself as a symbol only, this post-Castro debate would've never happened, and could've avoided future deaths as a result of instability.

IMO he should have let others through in the 70's, when Cuba was at its best. Now he will be remembered for the one who stood against the U.S., sold Cuba to the Soviet Union and raised the Cuban economy, got Cuba into an economic depression that made life shit for everyone. He took over the state as a young, fresh and brave guerilla soldier, but IMHO will probably be remembered as a senile old man who stayed too long in office.

If he had just left at the 70's, he would've be remembered as the guy who made Cuba into a great nation and a major international player.

[CubaSocialista]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2006, 11:34 AM

Castro has been in power since 1959 and has shown no signs of stepping down despite being 80

His birthday is August 13th, 1926 no?



Anyways, the Cuban exiles, some of them might be good people, but most people don't care about Cuba. Some of them call Cuba "that fucking island". When Cubans in Cuba die in car accidents, they comment "so what, people die in the U.S. all the time". And the big capitalists, why do they want a liberalist Cuba? Because then they can sell their goods and expand their marketing of their products. They have said this themselves.

You know, if Fidel had stepped down sooner and maintained himself as a symbol only, this post-Castro debate would've never happened, and could've avoided future deaths as a result of instability.

IMO he should have let others through in the 70's, when Cuba was at its best. Now he will be remembered for the one who stood against the U.S., sold Cuba to the Soviet Union and raised the Cuban economy, got Cuba into an economic depression that made life shit for everyone. He took over the state as a young, fresh and brave guerilla soldier, but IMHO will probably be remembered as a senile old man who stayed too long in office.

If he had just left at the 70's, he would've be remembered as the guy who made Cuba into a great nation and a major international player.
He'll be a hero yet.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The U.S. should have assistance in Cuba within weeks of President Fidel Castro's death to support a transitional government and help move the country toward democracy, a government report recommends.

What does this mean? "The U.S. should have assistance in Cuba"? I do not understand.

[Entrails Konfetti]

I doubt the Cuban citizens will be so dumb as to allow USA to set up a "Democratic" regime, anyone can see these wonderful results in Iraq and Afghanistan.

There isn't any evidence which suggests Cuba won't have a direction once Castro dies.

[Raj Radical]

I support a democracy once castro is gone, but unfortunetly 'american democracy' means any sort of state that is friendly to US corporate interests, no matter how brutal.

[CubaSocialista]

Originally posted by Raj [email protected] 1 2006, 10:10 PM
I support a democracy once castro is gone, but unfortunetly 'american democracy' means any sort of state that is friendly to US corporate interests, no matter how brutal.
The thing is, Cuba is more or less, at LEAST as democratic as the US when we look at not only their political system, but their economics, press, etc.

Speech and politics in the US boils down only to capital. Cuba, recognizing this fundamental corruption and problem, corrects it by giving equal voice through limited news agencies from each area, preventing media empires, as well as making political representation a matter of ability, instead of money, which is so conducive to lying and corruption.

[Ander]

I hope that when Castro is gone Cuba can evolve into a democratic socialist society. Fuck the US and their imperialism, they can't be allowed to do this. I hope it erupts into a Spanish Civil War type scenario and the fascists get beaten off this time.

[CubaSocialista]

Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2006, 04:12 AM
I hope that when Castro is gone Cuba can evolve into a democratic socialist society. Fuck the US and their imperialism, they can't be allowed to do this. I hope it erupts into a Spanish Civil War type scenario and the fascists get beaten off this time.
Hmm.

Well, the Spanish Civil War style scenario would be terrible, not something you would want to wish upon any people. that's foolish. If you wish for a massive Fascist killing, that's perfectly fine.

Socialist Cuba is, in a word, great. I say this after reading, listening, and indeed, for many years, HATING Cuba, and then deciding to read things that weren't in my school textbooks.

The Miami Cubans often refer to Cuba as "that fucking island" (as someone stated earlier in this thread or another one), and their support for the embargo shows how much they care, in reality, for their countrymen. Thus, to wish suffering on a people for political gain is entirely malevolent. I don't want to insult you, but please, watch what you say. Do not dish out judgements and wishes for terrible conflicts when they are not inevitable or necessary. That's the job of the Christian Fascists, and their allies, and their Islamic counterparts, and all those in between. Those are our enemies.

[Raj Radical]

Putting all of the mass democratic and greassroots participation at a local level in Cuba, on a national level the system isent democratic, and I would gain much more respect for Fidel if a way for the people to elect the next head of Cuba was implemented before his death.

[Simotix]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2006, 07:40 PM


WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The U.S. should have assistance in Cuba within weeks of President Fidel Castro's death to support a transitional government and help move the country toward democracy, a government report recommends.

What does this mean? "The U.S. should have assistance in Cuba"? I do not understand.
It basically means that American is going to put its machinery in to Cuba and ultimately kill anyone on the island that gets in their way.

[Gojo]

I think we're being a bit too sceptical about Cuba, after all Fidel has proven to be more than ready to handle every given situation. He surely has a plan for Cuba after his death and we will all see that come to life after he dies(wich I hope not to happen in next 10 years). Cuba will not simply fall to imperialists hands just like that, because Castro dies.
That man has a plan, you better belive it.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

I think we're being a bit too sceptical about Cuba

Should we not always be sceptical?


Cuba will not simply fall to imperialists hands just like that, because Castro dies.

It's funny. If Bush had died today, no way the U.S. had crumbled. Why? Because the U.S. is not dependent on one man.

When a society relies on one man, that may very well be, I believe. Look at China. Mao dies, and the country goes captialist. Ironically that change happened in the state, where China's future before was decided by Mao, but now decided by revisionists.


It should be a nation with a government, not a government with a nation.

[metalero]

Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2006, 04:57 AM

I think we're being a bit too sceptical about Cuba

Should we not always be sceptical?


Cuba will not simply fall to imperialists hands just like that, because Castro dies.

It's funny. If Bush had died today, no way the U.S. had crumbled. Why? Because the U.S. is not dependent on one man.

When a society relies on one man, that may very well be, I believe. Look at China. Mao dies, and the country goes captialist. Ironically that change happened in the state, where China's future before was decided by Mao, but now decided by revisionists.


It should be a nation with a government, not a government with a nation.
you're fooling yourself believing cubans depend on their government to construct a free socialist society. Despite their mistakes, Cuban leadership has proven to be far more able to maintain socialist gains in extreme harsh conditions, than any other nation in the western hemisphere. If cubans saw their goverments as an obstacle to socialist democracy, they would have overthrown it already, as they did with Machado, Batista, the 1961 mrecenary's invasion and so on. We as marxist should see that the main obstacle to construct a socialist democracy, is material conditions, that's is the development of means of production and the social relation deriving from it. I think if we want to see a more proletarian democracy, we need to pressure or do whatever possible to stop the brutal blockade against cuba, and look for cultural, economical and political integration between latinamerican countries as a first step to undermine economical imperialism.

[Dreckt]

It really boils down to the people of Cuba to decide their future. On one hand, when Castro dies, the whole island could become capitalist either through the government, or through the people not liking the Castro regime. What I think will happen will be that either Raul or another person takes control and keeps ruling Cuba the way it has been ruled under Castro.

The situation is tricky when it comes down to Cuba. The Asian nations, China, Vietnam, Laos and North Korea all follows the same pattern: once the revolutionary leader dies (Mao, Kim Il Sung, Ho Chi Mihn etc) the party has turned to capitalism to gain economic power, while keeping a one-party state in power. We've already seen this with China, Vietnam and Laos - North Korea is bound to follow the same line because their economy is basically dead.

Cuba, on the other hand, is closer to socialism than any other nation - it seems that it's people are willing to keep on fighting after Castro. The future will tell...

[Gojo]

Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2006, 02:10 PM
The future will tell...
That's just it. going into this discussion would be pointless because we simply can't predict future. It would all just lead to blind speculation.

[Gojo]

Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2006, 09:57 AM

If Bush had died today, no way the U.S. had crumbled. Why? Because the U.S. is not dependent on one man.When a society relies on one man, that may very well be, I believe.

Couldn't agree more, That's one of the greatest errors of communsim; it is mostly too dependant on one man that had got it going.
I hope Castro saw this mistake in so many literaly fallen(Ussr, Yugoslavia, whole east europe block) and almost fallen communsit countries(China) and won't repeat that mistake.

I pray that he's getting ready for his own departure and that he won't leave Cuba without some serious bad asss strategy.

[Gojo]

Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2006, 09:57 AM

If Bush had died today, no way the U.S. had crumbled. Why? Because the U.S. is not dependent on one man.When a society relies on one man, that may very well be, I believe.

Couldn't agree more, That's one of the greatest errors of communsim; it is mostly too dependant on one man that had got it going.
I hope Castro saw this mistake in so many literaly fallen(Ussr, Yugoslavia, whole east europe block) and almost fallen communsit countries(China) and won't repeat that mistake.

I pray that he's getting ready for his own departure and that he won't leave Cuba without some serious bad asss strategy.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

you're fooling yourself believing cubans depend on their government to construct a free socialist society.

You are fooling yourself if you believe Cuba is a "free socialist society". It is certainly not "free", and the notion that Cuba is "socialist", I would say, is highly controversial.



Despite their mistakes, Cuban leadership has proven to be far more able to maintain socialist gains
You mean gains made by soviet aid, land reform and general state-intervention in the economy?



If cubans saw their goverments as an obstacle to socialist democracy, they would have overthrown it already
You know, far from every Cuban is a altruistic socialist. Of course there are those too. But if anything, a lot of Cubans are egoistic, capitalistic. And they are very good with money. A lot of Cuban youths just care about the capitalist ideal, and they love to be taken photos with expensive cars etc.


Second, a lot of people see the government as an obstacle to democracy, but then again they are afraid what would happen if the Castro-regime collapse. Most of them has chosen the regime as a "lesser evil", not because they adore the soon to be 80 year old President.



Couldn't agree more, That's one of the greatest errors of communsim; it is mostly too dependant on one man that had got it going.
I hope Castro saw this mistake in so many literaly fallen(Ussr, Yugoslavia, whole east europe block) and almost fallen communsit countries(China) and won't repeat that mistake.

Good to see we agree on some things.

I hope so too. I doubt it though. If he had seen this mistake, he would of making Cuban society more transparent long before now, when he can die at any given moment.

Cuban society opened up a lot after the fall of the regimes in Eastern Europe, especially regarding religion, and starting more and more now, regarding sexuality (homosexuals can visit gay night clubs, gay shows and movies on television and cinema, although the night clubs is mostly kept in secrecy, and even though they are not harrased by the police, the ordinary cubans do).

The regime still has a firm grip on society. I think that, if the people had felt that they were running society, this would not be a problem. And there is still the everyday unstability and uncertainity (there's little to no standardisation, and things, especially regarding bureaucracy, are basically decided on the low-key administrator level, and they do not have to give any reason for doing what they do).


That's one of the greatest errors of communsim;

Don't you think that real communism is not dependent on one man? If a society is dependent on one man, then it is not the people who rule, but that person.... Right?

[metalero]

Cuba is a country in transition to socialism; it did take socialist measures, but has backed from some of them to avoid ecomical collapse and returning to colonial capitalism; if you a know bit of latinamerican history you would realize that those "small" reforms that you take for granted (full agrarian reform, urban land reform, 100% free education, universal access to education, bank centralization, planned economy and on) cost thousands of lives, brutal economical blockade, civil war and bloody coups in countries that are suffering misery and huge disproportion in income distribution due to colonial capitalism, something you seem to ignore. Those "granted reforms" make cuba at least a semi-socialist state, with the need to develop even more its productive forces, democratize fruther more the means of production and have easy access to primary products it doesn't have. This is the kind of democratizacion and liberation from capitalist reaction we need to carry out in Cuba, but it doesn't depend on the will of an individual or a party, nor buorguiose contra-reforms, but rather structural economical factors that allow such measures to be taken...according to your posts, is buorgoise election every 4 years and "free press"the road to liberation, but I woudn't expect more from good-hearted social-liberal.

[Gojo]

Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2006, 03:17 PM

Don't you think that real communism is not dependent on one man? If a society is dependent on one man, then it is not the people who rule, but that person.... Right?
I may think so but history has proven that it's next to impossible. Every single country that had fought for and won communism had it's great chairman's whose death often dealt the final blow to communsim in those countries(whole European communist block).

Though China is in deep shit right now regarding it's communism I'd say they done what they had to in order to keep CP in power.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

I may think so but history has proven that it's next to impossible.

Well if you say so, then the dictatorship of the proletariat too is next to impossible. So if it is "next to impossible", why bother?

[Rawthentic]

Originally posted by Gojo+Jul 2 2006, 11:20 AM--> (Gojo @ Jul 2 2006, 11:20 AM)
[email protected] 2 2006, 03:17 PM

Don't you think that real communism is not dependent on one man? If a society is dependent on one man, then it is not the people who rule, but that person.... Right?
I may think so but history has proven that it's next to impossible. Every single country that had fought for and won communism had it's great chairman's whose death often dealt the final blow to communsim in those countries(whole European communist block).

Though China is in deep shit right now regarding it's communism I'd say they done what they had to in order to keep CP in power. [/b]
You really dont know what communism is huh? Thats fucking Leninism and Maoism that has those damn chairmans, not communism. You need to read Marx and get your head out of your ass.

[Gojo]

Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2006, 05:39 PM

You really dont know what communism is huh? Thats fucking Leninism and Maoism that has those damn chairmans, not communism. You need to read Marx and get your head out of your ass.
:D you're a funny guy huh? or are you just trying to be?
I read Marx for the first time when I was 15 and I've been reading ever since.

Leninism, Maoism, Titoism...those are all the names of "versions" of communism that have succeded. If you disagree do you really think that there is no succesfull communist nation in this world currently? If you do I'd suggest you to imeddiatley report yourself to the moderators in order to get kicked out of the place you obviusly don't belong to.

[Rawthentic]

hahaha! somebody help this poor kid out! So, those are all versions of communism that have succeeded right? And communist nations right? You really dont know what communism is or what it means. If any mods see this, send this guy to OI please, this is absurd what he is saying. Any comrades, help this guy out!

[Ander]

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2006, 05:01 AM
If you disagree do you really think that there is no succesfull communist nation in this world currently?
Actually...I'm pretty sure that the majority of the members on this board believe that.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

Well, so according to you Gojo, there is communism in Cuba and North Korea right now, and there was communism in... Vietnam, Soviet Union, by and large the whole of Eastern Europe, China, etc.?

[Gojo]

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2006, 05:55 PM
hahaha! somebody help this poor kid out! So, those are all versions of communism that have succeeded right? And communist nations right? You really dont know what communism is or what it means. If any mods see this, send this guy to OI please, this is absurd what he is saying. Any comrades, help this guy out!
you're calling me a kid?! I'm 22 and I read all those books that you keep waving with and I suggest you take your nose out of books and study some history and real life. I think that should put you back into reallity.
You really have no clue on what you're talkin' about. I think everyone would agree if they would let go of our differences for a moment.

[Gojo]

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2006, 06:22 PM
Well, so according to you Gojo, there is communism in Cuba and North Korea right now, and there was communism in... Vietnam, Soviet Union, by and large the whole of Eastern Europe, China, etc.?
like I said, about eastern Europe and USSR; those countries where far off what communsim is, those where just weak attempts to make it work. And it didn't.

[Rawthentic]

Originally posted by Gojo+Jul 5 2006, 12:08 AM--> (Gojo @ Jul 5 2006, 12:08 AM)
[email protected] 4 2006, 05:55 PM
hahaha! somebody help this poor kid out! So, those are all versions of communism that have succeeded right? And communist nations right? You really dont know what communism is or what it means. If any mods see this, send this guy to OI please, this is absurd what he is saying. Any comrades, help this guy out!
you're calling me a kid?! I'm 22 and I read all those books that you keep waving with and I suggest you take your nose out of books and study some history and real life. I think that should put you back into reallity.
You really have no clue on what you're talkin' about. I think everyone would agree if they would let go of our differences for a moment. [/b]
It is real life smart ass. If you say you read Marx, then why the fuck are you saying that communism has existed, or "communist nations", another oxymoron, its a communist world, or nothing. And I bet that almost all communists on this board would disagree with all the shit youre saying.

[Gojo]

Only with that kind of attitude towards communism can we start to make it reallity in this world, we must look up to all the "attempts" of making it work and stop criticising everything and everyone. If we say that Cuba's fucked up, Castro's gone bad and DPRK has never done anything great than we are not anything near communists. We are the very thing that brought it down in so many countries.

[rouchambeau]

Raj Radical:

I support a democracy once castro is gone, but unfortunetly 'american democracy' means any sort of state that is friendly to US corporate interests, no matter how brutal.

You're capitalist? Maybe I don't understand what you mean by democracy.

Jello:

I hope that when Castro is gone Cuba can evolve into a democratic socialist society. Fuck the US and their imperialism, they can't be allowed to do this. I hope it erupts into a Spanish Civil War type scenario and the fascists get beaten off this time.

I think you need to read more on the Spanish Civil War. The Spanish Civil War was a war that was fought between Republican Capitalists and Fascistic Capitalists.

[matiasm]

Cuba can rely on history, if the US succeed in gaining political power in Cuba after Castro, history will re-ignite and Cuba will fall in the hands of another socialist revolution.

[Rawthentic]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2006, 08:39 PM
Only with that kind of attitude towards communism can we start to make it reallity in this world, we must look up to all the "attempts" of making it work and stop criticising everything and everyone. If we say that Cuba's fucked up, Castro's gone bad and DPRK has never done anything great than we are not anything near communists. We are the very thing that brought it down in so many countries.
As Marxists and communists, all those attempts must be criticized and looked upon with a critical eye, so that we dont make the same mistakes in the future. Would you like to live in a state-capitalist dictatorship, like nearly all of those attempts ended up as? That was not communism by the way, get it?