Something You Should Know

[Gojo]

I posted this in one of the practice section threads but not many people hang around there so I thougt I should bring it up here because a lot of people seem not to understand(people like Smoking man..) how precious is a goverment that takes care of you, a goverment that puts you in charge of your own work, a communist goverment.

The situation in all former Yugoslav republics is, without a bit of exageration, cathastrophical. Croatia is, after Slovenia the most developed of the republics but the situation in Croatia is VERY BAD and it's extremly worsening for the majority of the people.
Croats have indeed the most present nationalism, though Serbs are not far behind. After president Tito died everything began to fall apart because of the lack of authority and a certain amount of the personality cult that is(was) neaded. After 1985. those FEW nationalist grew in power, by Yugoslav Communist Party's fault. They failed to see the threat of nationalism after Kosovo crisis in Serbia and without any doubt the Western influence dealt the final blow.

The main reason Yugoslavia COULD NOT SURVIVE AND WAS NOT ALLOWED TO EXIST is because in the "new" Europe Capitalists, mainly from US intrest section, NEEDED NEW MARKETS TO FEED ON and they picked once growing and no doubt succeding communist block.

Today, as I already said, sex, drugs and "total capitalist kind of freedom" rules the streets, people and the goverment.

You people know alot about life in communism and life in capitalism and this forum is a great place to share those experiences BUT YOU WILL NEVER KNOW HOW IT IS LIKE TO LOSE SOMETHING AS GREAT AND HOLY AS YUGOSLAVIA WAS AND ALWAYS WILL BE.

Yugoslavs are in every day growing numbers and make the huge majority of the people but huge ANTI-communist propaganda that was enforced by the nationalist goverment in early 90's done it's part and people today are simply afraid to take things into their own hands, meaning to brign communism back to these countries.

I'll try to sum up the whole capitalist propaganda in former Yugoslavia:

THEY(people) ARE CONSTATLY BEING TOLD THAT IN A NEW ERA OF CAPITALISM AS THE BEST MODEL OF DEMOCRACY THERE CAN NEVER BE COMMUNISM BECAUSE IT IS WITHOUT DOUBT ABSOLETE AND COULD NEVER WORK AGAIN. GLOBALISATION AND EU MEMBERSHIP WILL BRING US GREAT PROSPERITY AND WEALTH. WE SHOULD NOT LOOK BACK TO THE PAST WHEN WE HAVE GREAT FUTURE AHEAD.

At the same time families are being evicted, people are being thrown out on the streets, hospitals can't afford to pay electricity bills, doctors, teachers, fishermen, policemen, dock workers, industry workers are on strike EVERY DAY they demand same things for the last 16 years since the downfall of communism. MORE AND MORE Homeless people are eating out of trash cans while rich tourists play golf and trown in ELITE parties in their huge manssions. They buy WHOLE ISLANDS, land, apartments, hotels, houses and we(let's say 85%) can no longer afford ourselves any of those things. They clear up our dirty and devastated beaches, round it up with barbed wire and than they enjoy the sea while we work to try to afford an hour on the internet per day.

I could write stuff like this forever but just to give you one example of how the things are I'll tell you that yesterday I was in the hospital for an examination and me and my friend hanged around the hospital complex to see if we can find ANYTHING NEW, meaning anything bought(donated, to be honest, my country does not buy anything that is for the people) AFTER THE BREAK UP OF YUGOSLAVIA. WE COULD NOT FIND ANYTHING BESIDES telephones and garbage bins.


If anyone might be interested in learning more I posted a few more posts in the practice section, thread "Situation in ex-Yugoslavia"

[Rawthentic]

In communism there is no government, period. Its and oxymoron, like a libertarian dictatorship

[che_diwas]

This depends upon the policies and work that the government focuses on.

I dont think that 'name' is important... Even Hitler's party was called a socialist party...

So the government should focus on investing and development of the rural and required areas....

Here in Nepal, its the same... whether its the centre left, centre right or far right in government, they only have focused on the Cities and nothing in the villages and rural areas.. thats why the Maoist Uprising began....

I think there should be an effective movement in Croatia also and doesn't matter whether an armed uprising or a street protest...

[Gojo]

Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2006, 05:27 PM
In communism there is no government, period. Its and oxymoron, like a libertarian dictatorship
In communist practice there is goverment. It may very well be "hidden" and so closely linked to the rulling party that you may think it's not but It has always been so and I don't think some kind of further distancing between party and goverment can be done.

[Red Polak]

Originally posted by Gojo+Jul 4 2006, 08:54 AM--> (Gojo @ Jul 4 2006, 08:54 AM)
[email protected] 3 2006, 05:27 PM
In communism there is no government, period. Its and oxymoron, like a libertarian dictatorship
In communist practice there is goverment. It may very well be "hidden" and so closely linked to the rulling party that you may think it's not but It has always been so and I don't think some kind of further distancing between party and goverment can be done. [/b]
er....there would be no ruling party - it would all "wither away" after the DoP.


I know what you mean about situation in Eastern Europe - unemployment in Poland is now up to 16.5 percent officially whereas just after 1989 it was only 6%. I can also sympathise with all the tourists coming in and buying up land; it's happening all over eastern Europe. Worst thing I think is large businesses are moving in now, people might like the cheap prices but soon enough local businesses will be put out by the huge foreign ones and people will start to realise the danger.

However, you seem to have fallen for the capitalist lie - we never had "communism" as Marx and Engels wrote in eastern Europe. One read of the communist manifesto is enough to see that!

[Karl Marx's Camel]

Communism is not a little clique of men with arms and a red flag taking over the government, nationalize some means of production and give free education to folks.

[Rawthentic]

exactly, Gojo seems to think that Soviet rule or Tito was communism, which it obviously wasnt. Like I said Gojo, read on Marx and what communism is before you start saying shit like that.

[Dreckt]

The situation in all former Yugoslav republics is, without a bit of exageration, cathastrophical.

If so, then what would be the motive of trying to practice "communism" with a government again?


Croats have indeed the most present nationalism, though Serbs are not far behind.

What? Nationalism? In a post-"communist" nation? So communism is educating people to be nationalistic? To believe that there must be countries? That there actually is "different kinds" of people?


After president Tito died everything began to fall apart because of the lack of authority and a certain amount of the personality cult that is(was) neaded.

But it didn't "just" happen in Yugoslavia. It happened in China, Vietnam, the USSR - well, all of the countries that had a "communist" party. The reason Cuba and North Korea hasn't been reformed is because in Cuba we have the Castro brothers, both original revolutionaries (and actually, there may be a chance in Cuba), and in North Korea we have dear leader Kim Il Sung's son in power.

If this isn't a failure of "communist states" with one party, then what is?


Today, as I already said, sex, drugs and "total capitalist kind of freedom" rules the streets, people and the goverment.

Uh, what's wrong with sex and drugs?


...BUT YOU WILL NEVER KNOW HOW IT IS LIKE TO LOSE SOMETHING AS GREAT AND HOLY AS YUGOSLAVIA WAS AND ALWAYS WILL BE.

Holy Yugoslavia? Even if a "communist government" would ever work, it sole purpose should be to prepare the world into communism - not stay in power forever.


In communist practice there is goverment.

No, there is not. You are talking about socialism, which can have one or the other form of government.

[Gojo]

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2006, 05:51 PM
exactly, Gojo seems to think that Soviet rule or Tito was communism, which it obviously wasnt. Like I said Gojo, read on Marx and what communism is before you start saying shit like that.
Are you deaf, blind or just retarded?! what part of my "I have read Marx numerous times" sentence don't you understand? I have read it and unlike you I understand it. You can't bury your nose in the book and stick to it without using the mind of your own. That's exactly what all those I mentioned did; made communsim WORK, each in their own conditions and areas. A real communist, socialist takes the best out of every source: Marx, Engels, Lenin...
Altough I can't expect you to understand how communism did work in Yugoslavia, I would talk like you probably if I was in your place.

[Rawthentic]

That was not communism because there was a government, is it so hard to understand that? Communism is a stateless society, PERIOD. It has never existed, and to say it has, obviously shows that you dont know what it is.

[Gojo]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2006, 02:40 PM
That was not communism because there was a government, is it so hard to understand that? Communism is a stateless society, PERIOD. It has never existed, and to say it has, obviously shows that you dont know what it is.
dude, you're really hopeless.

[Simotix]

Originally posted by Gojo+Jul 6 2006, 04:41 AM--> (Gojo @ Jul 6 2006, 04:41 AM)
[email protected] 5 2006, 02:40 PM
That was not communism because there was a government, is it so hard to understand that? Communism is a stateless society, PERIOD. It has never existed, and to say it has, obviously shows that you dont know what it is.
dude, you're really hopeless. [/b]
I don't see anything hopeless about that comment, that basically hit the nail on the head. There is no government in Communism.

[kimjongil]

Originally posted by exoity+Jul 6 2006, 04:46 AM--> (exoity @ Jul 6 2006, 04:46 AM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2006, 04:41 AM

[email protected] 5 2006, 02:40 PM
That was not communism because there was a government, is it so hard to understand that? Communism is a stateless society, PERIOD. It has never existed, and to say it has, obviously shows that you dont know what it is.
dude, you're really hopeless.
I don't see anything hopeless about that comment, that basically hit the nail on the head. There is no government in Communism. [/b]
I think Mr Gojo deoesn't care for the specific definitions. It doesn't have to fit a specific utopian ideal to be communist according to most of the world anyway, so why are we hung up over symantics?

[Leif]

So, the situation in what was once Yugoslavia is horrible, what precisely do you think should be done about it?

Also, I would like to know how your ideal communist party would opperate, how the grand committe would function, and if parties other than the offical communist one would be treated. Please elaborate on what you believe in so we can better discuss it instead of bickering.

[bcbm]

Tito may have held Yugoslavia's multiethnic society together, but there was certainly trouble brewing during his lifetime as he pursued relations with the West and set about taking a lot of loans from the IMF/WB (without telling his people of course). This set the stage for it becoming a hot territory for neocolonialists like the US.

[Rawthentic]

Im not advicating that Gojo know the specific definitions, but at least the bacics. I mean, he thinks that Yugoslavia was communist and cannot understand that communism has never existed. :blink: