The Jews & The Palestinians

[Free Floating Radical]

Rosa said the following to me on another thread.

"You can't even pretend to do that if you have kicked all the Palestinians off their land, and are systematically oppressing the rest.

[And I say that as Jew, myself.]"

I decided to treat the matter here as it is a political issue.

Consider if you will the map on the following link. It is a map of the UN Partition Plan of 1947:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1947_UN_Partition_Plan

As you can see, the plan called for two mutually trisecting countries.

It would be impossible for any two countries to live within borders like that, even if they were on the best of terms. Even countries as similar as Spain and Portugal could not pull it off.

To expect the Jews and the Arabs to live in peace thus is an absolute absurdity.

The UN created the situation in order to foment war in this country in order to:

1) Keep the Jews and Arabs alike busy with war so that they would not be able to actualize their respective potentials or collaborate in order to build up the area (the Jews and the Arabs have a history of collaborating beautifully and Europe was terrified of this occurring again).

2) To keep arms production and sales going.

3) To keep the drug traffic in this area at full blast. War causes misery and poverty. Misery and poverty keep the drug business going.

For an in-depth treatment of the entire matter, see my essay "An Archist Explains Why Israel Is Not An Imperialist State", which can be found on the following URL:

http://www.geocities.com/dordot2001/Israel...ialistState.htm (http://www.geocities.com/dordot2001/IsraelIsNotAnImperialistState.htm).

If you don't bother reading it; don't bother criticizing the thesis. I can't be bothered with out-of-hand rejection of theses without giving them due consideration.

Don't assume that you already know everything there is to know about the Israeli-Palestinian situation.

And if you're sitting in America on Native land and don't plan to vacate anytime soon because that issue has been "resolved" (that is most of the Natives were killed and the rest are languishing in horrendous poverty on some rez so there's no danger of them recalling the land you're sitting on anymore), then don't even bother to try to pontificate to me.

[JC1]

I agree that the Jew's and the Arabs were set up. However, I think that the way they where set up is more alongst the lines of the Mid-East Conflict being a conflict being Imperialist power's forign to the region and not a conflict between Jew's and Arab's. I dont think it was set up by the UN partition plan, though.

I beleive the conflict was created by the British and the French. The Brit's at first supported the Zionist's, but then thought that it would be better to suppourt the Arab landlord's in Palistine that Zionism was endangering.

During the War of Independence, the British and French gave suppourt to there puppet regimes in the neighboorhood, and actualy the Arab Feild Marshal was a product of British education.

The Israeli's needeed an Imperialist sponser , and the US became that sponser, after competion with the USSR. After that, the Conflict countinued as a proxy war between US and European interests.

Who provides the IDF with guns ? US Imperialism. Who provides the Palistinian's and Arabs with Arms and aid ? The European's.

[bcbm]

And if you're sitting in America on Native land and don't plan to vacate anytime soon because that issue has been "resolved" (that is most of the Natives were killed and the rest are languishing in horrendous poverty on some rez so there's no danger of them recalling the land you're sitting on anymore), then don't even bother to try to pontificate to me.

I didn't really have much of a choice in the matter. :rolleyes: I don't think mass immigration would be much of a "solution" at this point.

As for the rest, interesting theory and it makes sense. I'll read into more when I have some time.

[Free Floating Radical]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2006, 06:17 PM
I agree that the Jew's and the Arabs were set up. However, I think that the way they where set up is more alongst the lines of the Mid-East Conflict being a conflict being Imperialist power's forign to the region and not a conflict between Jew's and Arab's. I dont think it was set up by the UN partition plan, though.

I beleive the conflict was created by the British and the French. The Brit's at first supported the Zionist's, but then thought that it would be better to suppourt the Arab landlord's in Palistine that Zionism was endangering.

During the War of Independence, the British and French gave suppourt to there puppet regimes in the neighboorhood, and actualy the Arab Feild Marshal was a product of British education.

The Israeli's needeed an Imperialist sponser , and the US became that sponser, after competion with the USSR. After that, the Conflict countinued as a proxy war between US and European interests.

Who provides the IDF with guns ? US Imperialism. Who provides the Palistinian's and Arabs with Arms and aid ? The European's.
I agree with you in part.

Let's remember when the Partition Plan is put into effect. It's 1947. WWII has already been won and America has emerged the undisputed imperialist power in the world. So, it can't be a matter of England and France realistically trying to assert power as imperialistic nations against the US or even each other. I am inclined to think that they all colluded and divvied up the area for weapons and drugs sales.

In my essay "An Anarchist Explains Why Israel Is Not An Imperialst State" I explain the role that England played in funneling more Arabs into the area before the State of Israel was declared and before they left in order to upset the demographic balance that existed. They put pressure on France to go along with this. And yes, the British armed and trained the Arabs in the area. It is most true that the British trained Arab guerillas.

During the War of Independence the US State Department refused to supply arms to Israel. It wasn't the first time the US let us down, as I discuss in my essay. Arms were bought from Czeckoslovakia and from American Jewish gangsters, most prominently "Bugsy" Siegel.

After the War of Independence was won the USSR courted the first PM of the State of Israel, David Ben Gurion, to bring Israel into its sphere of influence. Ben Gurion decided to turn to the US and become its puppet instead. Knowing that the USSR wanted Israel as part of its satellite, the US accepted the request.

There is another reason, I believe, that the State of Israel was created. It seem to serve as a social experimentation field.

After the arrival of the Jews of Yemen many of their babies and children disappeared. They were told that they had died, but the graves were later proven to be empty.

I have often wondered why the Yemenite Jews were singled out for kidnapping of their children. They have a very distinctive "look" and would not be children that would "blend in" on the black adoption market with other ethnic groups. So, that can't be the reason the children and babies were abducted.

The only answer that makes sense to me is that they were one of the most isolated Jewish communities and they are among the most genetically "pure" Jews.

I cannot prove this, it is only speculation, but I think that human experimentation was carried out on some of them.

It was just around 1950 when the Yemenites arrived in Israel - a scant 5 years after WWII ended.

We know that America brought top Nazi scientists to the US and integrated them into think tanks and universities, scientists who had carried out human experimentation both physical and psychological.

I believe they continued some of the experiments on the Yemenite children, most of whom were never found and their "graves" were found to either be empty or contain animal bones.

Additionally, Israel still serves as a field school for social experimentation. We are subjected to various stressors, mostly economic and social, that are clearly not natural or matters of everyday life. Our reactions to them, I believe, are being studied.

The Israeli market also serves as a "back up" for drugs that are taken off the market by the American, Canadian and European gov'ts for being unsafe. We are one of the countries that the drugs that may still be in stock are sold to after they can no longer be sold in the West. This is not a matter of speculation. I have seen those drugs being sold by the "health" clinics here years after they were off the American market.

Noam Chomsky writes about the social experiments that were carried out by social scientists in Viet Nam - mostly aimed at population control under wartime conditions. I believe that some of that is going on here in Israel.

I don't think that most people begin to know that far from being America's "darling"; Israel is America's, and Europe's, victim. In fact, part of the victimization is making us out to be America's ally in order to set us up for world hatred.

How can we possibly be an ally of the US. Some degree of parity must exist between or among allies. There is no parity between the US and Israel. When we're not America's compliant flunkies we get kicked in the teeth every time.

Jonathan Pollard is a perfect example.

[JC1]

If agree with some of what you say. I will say I'm not to sure of conspiracy, but I know that becuase of this unessecary war Israel has 97% of there GDP in debt to the US. The Jewish Ethnicity abroad's leadership is forced into a comprador position !

Those who keep palistinian's seperate from other arab's in the refugee center's in syria, lebenon, eygypt, et cet era are criminal. The so called "palistinian right of return" leaves palistian's to a over populated peice of land if implemented. Palistian's deserve citizenship !

Palistinian's in gaza ought to emigrate to eygypt, becuase the Strip is over populated as it is. And many West Bank resident's ought to go to Jordan. It's a fair deal if you calculate the amount of land jordan and isreal would have, the Arab's would have a lot of supieor land in porpotion to there pop. The Arab's would have a presence in both countries, and the jew's only one.

I think however, the Iraeli's have many minimum demands that must be carried out in the mean time. The country need's a counstitution annd a open immigration policy, albeit promoting aliayh. The Army should be a unifying, secularizing force.

I know some arab's were not indigounous to Palistine, but more where then you say.

[JC1]

I wont let this thread die. The lack of responce demonstrates the bankruptcy of positoin's on this issues other then the one illistrated by myself & FFR.

[Burrito]

I agree that both were set up, but your reasons why are way too conspiratorial to be grounded in reality. Furthermore, the Palestinians were "set up" multiple orders of magnitude more than the Jews.

[JC1]

I agree that both were set up, but your reasons why are way too conspiratorial to be grounded in reality. Furthermore, the Palestinians were "set up" multiple orders of magnitude more than the Jews.

I agree with you that there is too much conspiracy theory in the comrades article, but I think some of the important points are covered.

And also, the palistinian's where not set up "set up magnitudes" over the jew's. This is becuase, albeit from a quantative (I.E. SoL) point of view the jews are doing better, in qualitive terms (E.g the relationship to Imperialist staes) they are the same.

[JC1]

The restriction of FFR is a concesion of bankruptcy of the position on this issue held by the boards leadreship.

[Burrito]

And also, the palistinian's where not set up "set up magnitudes" over the jew's. This is becuase, albeit from a quantative (I.E. SoL) point of view the jews are doing better, in qualitive terms (E.g the relationship to Imperialist staes) they are the same.

:lol:

Bull! Where's the Palestinians apache attack helicopters!? Hell, where is the Palesitinian state?