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Fawkes
28th June 2006, 22:03
Re: What Do People Call You???

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I've been called a "Nazi" a few times, "Hitler" once or twice, and a "racist" from time to time at school. I'm a little disappointed I was never called a "Fascist pig" because that would mean I've really infuriated the Red Diaper Babies with the army green Che t-shirts I see around school. The Che tee is a popular item in the army-navy surplus store in my town, but I doubt many of the kids who buy them even know who Che Guevara was for sure.
I had a vague idea of who he was; that he was a Red revolutionary and guerilla leader who helped Castro plunge Cuba into 40 years of Red dictatorship, chicken and milk rations, and Cuban refugees who risk life and limb to flee Castro's island prison. What I only recently found out is that Che was Castro's chief executioner who ordered several thousand executions during the early days of the Castro regime. National Socialist Germany, "the epitome of evil", had 20,000 political prisoners tops in 1938, by which time Hitler had been Führer for five years. Historians aren't too certain exactly how many executions there were by then, but most seem to estimate it to be around 2,000, and most of those were actually Nazis who joined Ernst Roehm in his coup d'etat plot which ended in a night of mass executions known as "The Night Of The Long Knives."

In 1959 Cuba was a nation of 6.5 million. IN 1938 Germany was a nation of 70 million. In a matter of only a few months, Castro and his chief butcher and sadist, Ernesto "Che" Guevara, far outdid the pre-war Nazi regime in the rate of execution and incarceration. A Cuban defector testified that Che signed 500 death warrants, while another set the figure at 600. A Cuban journalist, Luis Ortega, who actually knew Che very early on in 1954, wrote how Che had sent 1,897 political prisoners to the firing squad. Daniel James in his biography of Che wrote that Che had admitted ordering several thousand executions in just the first few years of Communist rule in Cuba. No matter what the actual figures are, or how many widows and orphans Castro and Che made, the mass executioners get standing ovations by left wingnuts who otherwise oppose capitol punishment. Those few Che groupies I see around school just think the Che tee is "cool." Maybe they believe the media hype and deification of Che as a romantic hero of the Third World, since they've been indoctrinated with Political Correctness which holds, as Robert Whitaker writes, "White Men are Evil and that non-Whites are lovers of nature and moral paragons." Maybe their parents are aging 60s radicals who raised their Red Diaper Babies to hate America and love Che?

What's known for sure is that in only the first several months of the "Cuban Revolution" alone some 568 Cubans faced the firing squad at the La Cabana fortress during Che's firing squad marathons. It was Che's policy that the executions be viewed by the public. There were public trials before the accused was put up against the wall and had his skull shattered from a powerful .45 slug fired in 5 places. Then the families and friends of the "bourgeois nationalist" were paraded before the splattered brains of the massacred. There's no point in blowing out the brains of one's political opponents unless the public and loved ones can be terrorized and intimidated into silence and obedience to the revoutionary vanguard of the oppressed.

"We will make our hearts cruel, hard, and immovable ... we will not quiver at the sight of a sea of enemy blood. Without mercy, without sparing, we will kill our enemies in scores of thousands; let them drown themselves in their own blood! Let there be floods of the blood of the bourgeois - more blood, as much as possible."

Felix Dzerzhinsky, commisar of the Soviet Cheka in 1918.
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The blood of your parents was not lost in you, but ye are of the lines of men that are sceptered kings, the fosterlings of Zeus, for no curl could beget sons like you. --The Odyssey


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I was on Stormfront, just cause I like to see all the bullshit those idiot Nazis come up with. I know I shouldnt believe what they say cause they're fucking idiots, but how true is this? I thought that Che was head of the bank

Karl Marx's Camel
28th June 2006, 22:34
army-navy surplus store in my town

?


I thought that Che was head of the bank

He did other things too, beside being president of the bank. He was also part of INRA (The National Institute for Agrarian Reform), and minister of industry.

Janus
29th June 2006, 01:27
First of all, this belongs in the Che subforum. But I don't really blame you for putting it here since that subforum is now hidden away in the History forum.


but I doubt many of the kids who buy them even know who Che Guevara was for sure.
Sad but true.


A Cuban defector testified that Che signed 500 death warrants, while another set the figure at 600.
Yeah, listen to an anti-Castro defector.


Castro and his chief butcher and sadist, Ernesto "Che" Guevara, far outdid the pre-war Nazi regime in the rate of execution and incarceration.
That is a lie. Besides, a lot of the executions by the Nazi regime were undocumented.

It is true that Che presided over the executions after the revolution. And yes, many people were executed but they were at least given a trial unlike what occured in Nazi Germany.

Counter-revolutionaries try to over-emphasize this and ride the topic to the limit in their criticisms of Che. However, they conveniently overlook the positive things he actually did and the inspiration and hope that he still gives to the oppressed.

If you wanna look at Che's actions, you can look in the Che subforum where there has been a lot of threads concerning this topic.

I'm quite disgusted at how fascists try to make Che look like a bloodthirsty villain when they worship the greatest mass-executioner of them all.

Karl Marx's Camel
29th June 2006, 01:30
but they were at least given a trial unlike what occured in Nazi Germany.


I don't think it is so important that there was trials. What is important is to find out how real the trials were.

afrikaNOW
29th June 2006, 02:02
Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2006, 10:31 PM

but they were at least given a trial unlike what occured in Nazi Germany.


I don't think it is so important that there was trials. What is important is to find out how real the trials were.
bingo.

TC
29th June 2006, 02:18
I don't really think defectors to imperialist countries have a very reliable track record for providing accurate information...they're hardly uninterested neutral parties :-p.

Xiao Banfa
4th July 2006, 10:28
A Cuban defector testified that Che signed 500 death warrants, while another set the figure at 600.

Who gives a fuck; they probably deserved it.
How many torturers and pig scum would you have in an island of 11 million?

Why not 2000?

Introducing revolution!

Comrade Marcel
4th July 2006, 11:35
This "article" is so full of bullshit and written (quite poorly) by a fascist. There's no point in even bothering with it.

The executions after the revolution were highly supported by the mass population. Castro asked people to come out and rally either for or against the death penalty and executions. Something like 2 million marched in Havanna supporting the execution of these scumbags who caused much pain and death to people pre-revolution.

Hiero
4th July 2006, 12:31
Originally posted by Comrade [email protected] 4 2006, 07:36 PM
This "article" is so full of bullshit and written (quite poorly) by a fascist. There's no point in even bothering with it.

The executions after the revolution were highly supported by the mass population. Castro asked people to come out and rally either for or against the death penalty and executions. Something like 2 million marched in Havanna supporting the execution of these scumbags who caused much pain and death to people pre-revolution.

The executions after the revolution were highly supported by the mass population. Castro asked people to come out and rally either for or against the death penalty and executions. Something like 2 million marched in Havanna supporting the execution of these scumbags who caused much pain and death to people pre-revolution.

That's pretty interesting, can you give a source for that please?

Comrade Marcel
4th July 2006, 13:26
See the documentary film Cuban Story (http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/cuban_story/). If people are unable to get it, as it is obscure, I can rent it from Suspect video, rip it to AVI and put it on a torrent or something. Other than that, I am looking for a source in text.

Red Polak
4th July 2006, 14:27
The Dzierzynski quote is from Stormfront?

lol, how ironic. He's threatening to kill ENEMIES in THOUSANDS whereas the nazis wanted to kill CIVILIANS in MILLIONS. and yet the stormfronters are criticizing him!




I don't know a great deal about Che yet; still reading up on him. But I heard he didn't actually have the support of the people, in fact, they were rather scared of him when he turned up in military fatigues and started causing trouble? I don't know, this might be capitalist propaganda. :unsure:

Either way, can any one recommend a decent book on him please?

Andy Bowden
4th July 2006, 14:55
That's pretty interesting, can you give a source for that please?

"The same day Matos was arrested, Miami Cuban exile Pedro Díaz, former air force chief of staff under Castro, dropped leaflets into Havana that called for the removal of all Communists from the government. In response, Castro called for a show of hands at a political rally in favor of executing the two dissidents. The crowd responded with "Paredón" ("To the wall.")"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huber_Matos

Karl Marx's Camel
4th July 2006, 16:23
Something like 2 million marched in Havanna supporting the execution of these scumbags who caused much pain and death to people pre-revolution.

Well, at least today, Fidel asking you to march is not just "asking".

kjt1981
4th July 2006, 17:05
i find a lot of this arguing about who-did-what 50 odd years ago pointless anyway. I consider myself to be of communist beliefs, yet i get people telling me that its bad to have those beliefs because of who or how many people Lenin or Che or Castro or Stalin might have killed and that "they wernt no better than Hitler". (as in have been told on occasion).

Well maybe not, but that was them wasnt it? Not me. I dont believe in killing people for being "enemies of the people" or whatever, but i believe in m values and i believe in a lot of the leftwing doctrine (at least that which ive read anyway - probably not a lot compared to many on here, but more and more everyday). So Che migh have killed people, political opponents or whatever; ok - he went to far, bad karma on his part. But that doesnt stop me believing in the base values of this belief system. Doesnt mean we've all got to do the same thing. So whats the point of "arguments" like this? Are we supposed to read this sort of thing and then say "oh, well..... maybe im all turned round on the subject". The difference between Communists and Nazi's is that Communists are ashamed of the atrocities that we're commited in the name of their beliefs. Many (if not all, i dont know) Nazi's are proud.

Are we all supposed to be guilty by (tenuous) association or something?

Comrade Marcel
9th July 2006, 09:03
Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2006, 01:24 PM

Something like 2 million marched in Havanna supporting the execution of these scumbags who caused much pain and death to people pre-revolution.

Well, at least today, Fidel asking you to march is not just "asking".
Every word that comes from your fingers is always objectively anti-communist and pro-imperialist. Good job.

Karl Marx's Camel
10th July 2006, 01:38
Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2006, 01:24 PM

Something like 2 million marched in Havanna supporting the execution of these scumbags who caused much pain and death to people pre-revolution.

Well, at least today, Fidel asking you to march is not just "asking".
Every word that comes from your fingers is always objectively anti-communist and pro-imperialist. Good job.

Uh, no, it's not. :rolleyes:


When you go to a demonstration you'll be checked by at least three persons/organizations: CDR members (Committee for the Defence of the Revolution, if fact your neighbours), party members (it doesn't matter whether you are a member of the party or not) and by workers union's members.

If you don't go then next working day your boss at the company will ask you why you didn't go, later on the party's secretary will do the same.

Consequence 1: If you are a party's member you'll get a sanction (the first time you get a public reprimand, then you may loose the right to vote for a couple of months). Probably they won't throw you out of the party because it's already bad enough (nobody wants to belong to the party so they need to keep their members).

Consequence 2 (the worst one): In Cuba if you want to take your kid to a kindergarten you have to fill in an application form, your personal details are just pure formalities, what really counts are the signatures of your company's boss, the union's boss and the CDR's boss, and it's then when they will recall that you didn't go to the last demo.

Consequence 3 (also a bad one): some things (TVs, ventilators, refrigerators, etc) are given away at the companies by the workers unions, they are for the best workers. Who the best workers are is decided at a open meeting, and then you will see that even your best friend will raise his hand and say Pepe doesn't deserve to get a TV because he didn't go the last demo.

Solitary Mind
12th July 2006, 22:10
Che Geuvara: A Revolutionary Life by John Lee Anderson

NWOG have you been to cuba to know what you're talking about? or even know people currently IN Cuba? because i have visited, and i know people living, and i haven't heard anything about being checked multiple times and whatnot...no offense, just making conversation, lol...

Delta
12th July 2006, 23:53
Originally posted by Comrade M[email protected] 4 2006, 02:27 AM
If people are unable to get it, as it is obscure, I can rent it from Suspect video, rip it to AVI and put it on a torrent or something
Comrade Marcel, if you are able to do that I would certainly watch it and help seed. I didn't see any sources for it online when I checked.

Viva Fidel!!
13th July 2006, 00:40
There is alot of false propaganda and bullshit circulating around the person who Ernesto "Che" Guevara really was. Being somebody who lives in Miami, I've heard the most negative things about Che. I've heard gusanos say that Che only joined the revolution to satisfy his desire to kill, which is completely bullshit. Cheguevara was a man who was against opression. He stood up for what he believed in and joined the 26 of July movement to fight the injustice that was going on during Batista's regime. Yes, he did send people to the firing squads after their victory, but he didn't do it for pleasure as some people may tell you. Those actions had to be taken in order to preserve the revolution and completely eliminate the enemy. As most of you should know, Castro was arrested in 1953 after a failed attempt to rebel against Batista. He was released in 1955 and over threw Batista's regime in 1959. I'm pretty sure Fidel wasn't going to arrest several hundred men, release them, and then let them repeat the same thing he did when he was released from jail in 1955. Cheguevara was not a cold blooded assasin, he did what he had to do.

Karl Marx's Camel
14th July 2006, 00:47
"Comrade" Marcel, are you part of, or sympathize with the MIM?

I see you continue to say "amerika", "womyn".